# TH Black Eye (Soldano GTO) prototype build



## vigilante398

A little while ago in the "Must Build" thread I mentioned my love for the Soldano GTO and was asked if there were any PCBs out there in the world for it. I don't usually work in through-hole, but I decided to take a swing at it. Usually I make a little daughter board for the tube sockets so they can mount at a right angle to the main PCB, but mounting the whole PCB vertically in the chassis like this makes it way easier to build. I'll try to get it boxed up later this month so I can see how it fits, but first I wanted to hear how it sounds. Tayda ran out of the 22nF high voltage caps I planned to use so there's one random yellow film cap, but other than that I'm pleased with the look.

Also I'm pleased that aside from the tube sockets and the ribbon cable, every single part on this board can be purchased cheap from Tayda.


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## THeHammer82

So much win!


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## Willybomb

Ok, I want one of these pcbs, lol.


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## THeHammer82

What voltage are the tubes being ran with?


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## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> What voltage are the tubes being ran with?


If I remember right (I'm on vacation without my computer) I have it set right around 240V on B+. None of this starved-plate nonsense for me.


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## THeHammer82

I keed, I keed lol.


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## vigilante398

Lol. So I just got back from vacation today, I'm catching up on emails and paying customers, but getting this thing into a box to confirm fit is on my to-do list, hopefully within the next week.


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## vigilante398

Well good news and bad news. I designed this with the intention of it fitting in a 1590BB with top jacks, but as such the tubes come down too far and run into the footswitch. The easiest fix here is letting it be drilled for side jacks, that should pretty well take care of it. The only way it would work with top jacks is a low-profile footswitch and not using a footswitch PCB.

So tonight I'll try re-drilling the box for side jacks instead of top jacks (leaving power on top though) and see how the fit looks, and if that works out I'll let everyone know and see if I can get a drill template put together, then I can pull the BOM and put together a basic build doc and release these things into the wild.

The alternative option here is to use a 1590XX, which gives a luxuriously roomy fit even with top jacks, but "pedalboard-friendly" is always my goal, so I'm aiming for 1590BB with side jacks.


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## benny_profane

vigilante398 said:


> The alternative option here is to use a 1590XX, which gives a luxuriously roomy fit even with top jacks, but "pedalboard-friendly" is always my goal, so I'm aiming for 1590BB with side jacks.


Would the extra height of a 1590BB2 help at all?


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## vigilante398

benny_profane said:


> Would the extra height of a 1590BB2 help at all?


Not really. The PCB mounts vertical and fills the whole vertical space in there, so it's a Y-axis problem, not a Z-axis problem. Side jacks is the only way to really fix it with a 1590BB sized box.


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## THeHammer82

Personally I’m not all that concerned about size. You’re shoving some large components in there so I never expected  it to be a small pedal.


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## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> Personally I’m not all that concerned about size. You’re shoving some large components in there so I never expected  it to be a small pedal.


But it's _allowed _to be a small pedal. That's one of the big reasons I avoid power transformers in my pedals, I want them to be as small as reasonably possible. The two pedals I'm the proudest of are my single tube preamp in a 1590B (mix of through-hole and SMD) and my dual tube preamp in a 125B (all SMD).


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## Paradox916

vigilante398 said:


> Well good news and bad news. I designed this with the intention of it fitting in a 1590BB with top jacks, but as such the tubes come down too far and run into the footswitch. The easiest fix here is letting it be drilled for side jacks, that should pretty well take care of it. The only way it would work with top jacks is a low-profile footswitch and not using a footswitch PCB.
> 
> So tonight I'll try re-drilling the box for side jacks instead of top jacks (leaving power on top though) and see how the fit looks, and if that works out I'll let everyone know and see if I can get a drill template put together, then I can pull the BOM and put together a basic build doc and release these things into the wild.
> 
> The alternative option here is to use a 1590XX, which gives a luxuriously roomy fit even with top jacks, but "pedalboard-friendly" is always my goal, so I'm aiming for 1590BB with side jacks.


How can I get my hands on one of them!


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## vigilante398

Alright, so it fits and it works. I reused the first box I originally drilled for top jacks, because waste not, want not. Notes required to make this fit in a 1590BB:

Standard size (or smaller) 3PDT is fine, I used a standard size one from Tayda on this build
3PDT breakout PCB like this is not required, and you can run wires if you don't want a big ribbon cable behind your tube, but I like the ribbon cables and I will include one of these 3PDT boards with each PCB. If you use a ribbon cable I recommend soldering it from the bottom, unlike what I did here
Lumberg (or knock-off) 2.1mm jack for power *ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED*
solder tabs for the jack must be bent outwards; not ideal, but it's the only way to make it fit
alternatively, some people like putting their DC jack on the side next to the 1/4" jack, nothing wrong with that and you will have a luxurious amount of room to put it in

I have something vaguely resembling a drill template, so I need to turn it into an actual drill template, then @benny_profane has offered to help put together a build document as I suck at that sort of thing. I am planning to offer CNC milled enclosures (no powdercoating or UV printing) with the vent slots like I have on my personal builds, but that will of course require me to find out how many people would generally be into that sort of thing so I could stock up on 1590BB's.

So I'm still not ready to sell these, but I'm getting close.

Also, as I look at this picture, I'm wondering if I could just rotate the footswitch 90 degrees, bend the ribbon cable over, and make the footswitch fit between the tubes so I could still make top jacks work. I don't know. I'll find out though.


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## Robert

Put me down for one.


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## temol

Have you ever tried a GTO with a TMB tonestack? 
Here's my old build. I'm not sure if it's any better than single Tone knob.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

Count me in for 2 if there are enough to go around. I have a pal that would love this but I bet I'll want one too.


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## vigilante398

temol said:


> Have you ever tried a GTO with a TMB tonestack?
> Here's my old build. I'm not sure if it's any better than single Tone knob.
> 
> View attachment 27861


I have not, though I could definitely see people being into that. Personally I'm a simple player with simple tastes, and I find three knobs to be plenty to keep my simple brain busy


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## tcpoint

Count me in for one.


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## THeHammer82

I would definitely like to have a vented enclosure.

I had not heard of Sushi Box FX until this thread started and saw it printed on the board. I didn’t realize you had made so many awesome pedals.


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## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> I had not heard of Sushi Box FX until this thread started and saw it printed on the board. I didn’t realize you had made so many awesome pedals.


That's because I'm nobody  Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words. I'm still a hobbyist, not a household name by any stretch of the imagination, but I try to do neat stuff.


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## Robert

I've seen a couple of your pedals for sale over on the TGP Emporiums, that means they _must_ be legit, right?

Really cool looking stuff, I don't care if the rest of the world hasn't caught up yet...  that means no two year wait lists!


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## THeHammer82

vigilante398 said:


> That's because I'm nobody  Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words. I'm still a hobbyist, not a household name by any stretch of the imagination, but I try to do neat stuff.



All of the great builders were “nobodies” at one time 🙂


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## Robert

THeHammer82 said:


> All of the great builders were “nobodies” at one time 🙂



That never changed for some of us.


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## GizzWizzKing

If you're ever taking orders.... it looks like you will have a decent number of interested parties.


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## vigilante398

GizzWizzKing said:


> If you're ever taking orders.... it looks like you will have a decent number of interested parties.


I'm planning to make it available soon, hopefully this week, but I want to get at least minimal documentation together for it so I'm not throwing people blindly into a high-voltage circuit. I'm hoping to have it together in the next few days.

On that note though, I should probably start getting an idea of how many people will want pre-milled enclosures as I only have a couple 1590BB around and will be making a Tayda order soon.


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## THeHammer82

vigilante398 said:


> I'm planning to make it available soon, hopefully this week, but I want to get at least minimal documentation together for it so I'm not throwing people blindly into a high-voltage circuit. I'm hoping to have it together in the next few days.
> 
> On that note though, I should probably start getting an idea of how many people will want pre-milled enclosures as I only have a couple 1590BB around and will be making a Tayda order soon.


Meh, the high voltage will sort out the weak 

I am 100% in for a milled enclosure.


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## Paradox916

vigilante398 said:


> I'm planning to make it available soon, hopefully this week, but I want to get at least minimal documentation together for it so I'm not throwing people blindly into a high-voltage circuit. I'm hoping to have it together in the next few days.
> 
> On that note though, I should probably start getting an idea of how many people will want pre-milled enclosures as I only have a couple 1590BB around and will be making a Tayda order soon.


I would be more than happy to Buy one of them boards off of you if you have an extra you are willing to part with.


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## vigilante398

Paradox916 said:


> I would be more than happy to Buy one of them boards off of you if you have an extra you are willing to part with.


I'm working on it, I think I have 20 or so boards on hand right now. I'll figure out the best way to handle the distribution of boards when a build doc is put together. So everyone calm down for a minute


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## vigilante398

Got a draft build doc together, I'll work on the drill template when I get home from work today, but this gives you a basic idea of what you're looking at for a build. Hopefully I made the disclaimer scary enough, I don't want people to die 









						Black Eye build doc draft.docx
					

Sushi Box FX - Black Eye The Black Eye is inspired by the Soldano Supercharger GTO tube distortion pedal. This is an all-tube, high-gain pedal with minimal parts count and minimal tone controls—and it is my all-time favorite pedal in the world. Soldano didn’t make these for very long, and the use...




					docs.google.com


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## Paradox916

vigilante398 said:


> I'm working on it, I think I have 20 or so boards on hand right now. I'll figure out the best way to handle the distribution of boards when a build doc is put together. So everyone calm down for a minute
> 
> View attachment 27879


I’m in no rush, take your time man.


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## Tpruitt

I’ll take one


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## GizzWizzKing

you've got me officially spooked. ha!


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## vigilante398

GizzWizzKing said:


> you've got me officially spooked. ha!


Excellent, that's my job. You don't need to be paranoid, but as long as you always have a healthy fear of high voltage you should be fine. You need to be just scared enough to be careful. As soon as you get cocky and stop worrying, that's when you get hurt.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

vigilante398 said:


> Excellent, that's my job. You don't need to be paranoid, but as long as you always have a healthy fear of high voltage you should be fine. You need to be just scared enough to be careful. As soon as you get cocky and stop worrying, that's when you get hurt.


I used to say this all the time in my wood shop. Fear the shaper, respect the shaper or give a limb to the shaper. It was a shared space so there were a bunch of artists (cough cough squatters) with no experience with big tools and you'd occasionally find things like the table saw blade missing half it's teeth with no explanation.


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## THeHammer82

I have experience repairing tube amps (and 480v 3-phase panels) so safely working with high voltage isn’t new to me.


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## vigilante398

Alright, it's live. I have a decent number of boards on hand, and I have a ton of 1590BB on their way from stompboxparts (only 4 hours from my house) so I should be able to do pre-milled enclosures for anyone that wants them, but the drill template is on the build doc now so you can drill your own enclosure as well.

I also have standalone high-voltage boards that I'm finishing up documentation for and will be available later today, and I have another simple tube preamp that I'm waiting on revised boards for that will be available in a week or so. And I don't want any requests, that's all the PCBs I'm doing 



			Black Eye – DIY PCB – Sushi Box FX


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## Harry Klippton

vigilante398 said:


> Alright, it's live. I have a decent number of boards on hand, and I have a ton of 1590BB on their way from stompboxparts (only 4 hours from my house) so I should be able to do pre-milled enclosures for anyone that wants them, but the drill template is on the build doc now so you can drill your own enclosure as well.
> 
> I also have standalone high-voltage boards that I'm finishing up documentation for and will be available later today, and I have another simple tube preamp that I'm waiting on revised boards for that will be available in a week or so. And I don't want any requests, that's all the PCBs I'm doing
> 
> 
> 
> Black Eye – DIY PCB – Sushi Box FX


Very gracious of you to do these, sir


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## dawson

Alright, my order is _IN!_

If you stop seeing my posts, you'll know what happened..

⚡⚡⚡


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## Robert

My order is in.  

For what it's worth, this is the first 3rd party PCB I've ever purchased, so there's that.   
(I mean how could I not?)

Now where is that request form?


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## temol

August 1st, New Releases, Hawk Eye - Compare to Sushi Box FX Black Eye


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## vigilante398

Robert said:


> Now where is that request form?


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## Robert

temol said:


> August 1st, New Releases, Hawk Eye - Compare to Sushi Box FX Black Eye



Nah man, I have a couple tube projects in limbo but I wouldn't do that.  😂

I'll just sit back and let this one cull out the weak before releasing any potentially fatal circuits.  😂😂

Besides, it would obviously be called the Fish Eyed Fool.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

Thanks!


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## Paradox916

I’m really looking forward to putting this together despite my ridiculous backlog,  thanks for sharing!


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## Gordo

Just couldn’t pass this up.


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## vigilante398

Mmkay, so I have 3 enclosures on hand that I just milled up, I have 20 more that will be here friday. So if you just ordered a PCB I'll get tracking up tonight, and if you're one of the first 3 that ordered an enclosure I'll get tracking tonight, otherwise I'll get tracking for you Friday night. Also I may as well get a quick demo recorded of the one I built up, it really is the best damn dirt pedal I've ever heard.

This is what the pre-drilled enclosures look like, by the way:


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## Gordo

Holy moly did I luck out.  It seems vigilante398 is right down the road from me so he stopped by this afternoon with the goods.  What a guy!!!  Thanks again, I'm really stoked about building this.


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## Harry Klippton

Stopped by 😳


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## benny_profane

Can I use LEDs instead of those big light bulbs?


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## Gordo

benny_profane said:


> Can I use LEDs instead of those big light bulbs?


The trick is finding 9pin LEDs


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## vigilante398

Harry Klippton said:


> Stopped by 😳


I'm a pretty creepy dude. If your shipping address is less than an hour from me and I have time, I will absolutely try to deliver in person instead of shipping.


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## Robert

I was wondering because I placed the order late last night and the package still isn't here....   Now it makes sense, you're driving them down!    

I'm only like 13 hours away in Georgia, what time should I expect you?

Give me a heads up though, I'm _pretty_ busy.


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## benny_profane

Can you pick up a pizza on the way to delivering mine, please?


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## Robert

He said no requests.  The nerve of some people....


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## peccary

I just put my order in - Thank you for putting this out!


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## Gordo

Placed a Tayda order this afternoon.  I have 1 9-pin socket and most of my electrolytics would likely go kaboom.  At this point I have a handful of builds that are waiting on a handful of parts so at least the timing was right.

One of the cool details on this (well other than getting to meet the guy doing it) is the machining on the enclosure.  It's just crazy clean.  I have no idea what I'm going to do for a finish and graphics but it's going to have to be good to show off this beauty.


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## tcpoint

I ordered one with the enclosure.  Should be fun and it will probably knock a couple of pedals off my board.


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## Barry

Robert said:


> I was wondering because I placed the order late last night and the package still isn't here....   Now it makes sense, you're driving them down!
> 
> I'm only like 13 hours away in Georgia, what time should I expect you?
> 
> Give me a heads up though, I'm _pretty_ busy.


He's got a stop in North Georgia first, I'll let you know when he leaves here!


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## Barry

Glad I dropped in here tonight, I might have missed out otherwise


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## THeHammer82

My order is in! 
@vigilante398 thanks for doing this man, it’s greatly appreciated!


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## Mentaltossflycoon

Uuuuunnnnnngh nenah nenahhhh!!! Kicking myself a little for not ordering one of your enclosures. Thanks again for these!


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## Robert

Mine arrived today as well, just in time for my next big prototype parts order.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

I hit a tayda order yesterday... like an idiot.


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## Robert

Mentaltossflycoon said:


> Kicking myself a little for not ordering one of your enclosures.



This enclosure is going to end up indirectly costing me a looot of money.


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## fig

Awesome stuff @vigilante398.


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## music6000

vigilante398 said:


> Mmkay, so I have 3 enclosures on hand that I just milled up, I have 20 more that will be here friday. So if you just ordered a PCB I'll get tracking up tonight, and if you're one of the first 3 that ordered an enclosure I'll get tracking tonight, otherwise I'll get tracking for you Friday night. Also I may as well get a quick demo recorded of the one I built up, it really is the best damn dirt pedal I've ever heard.
> 
> This is what the pre-drilled enclosures look like, by the way:
> View attachment 27962


This could be another option , The 1590Q measures 120mm x 120mm x34mm :


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## Mentaltossflycoon




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## vigilante398

Mentaltossflycoon said:


> View attachment 28121


Yup, my goal for the project was to make it as easy as possible to assemble and as cheap as possible to source parts. Even if you paid extra for the pre-drilled enclosure, the total cost for building the project should be $100 or less, and the tubes are the most expensive part of that. Everything but the tube socket, tube, and ribbon cable (if you want to use one) are available on Tayda, no reason to pay extra to get it anywhere else in my opinion.

Looking forward to seeing some builds happen, and feel free to hit me up with any questions if they come up


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## music6000

Here's a Mockup with 1590Q Enclosure if you want Top Mount jacks? :


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## vigilante398

music6000 said:


> Here's a Mockup with 1590Q Enclosure if you want Top Mount jacks? :
> 
> View attachment 28152


That definitely looks like an option. It looks like there would be enough room to move the board up a little bit so you don't have as much empty space up top, especially since the footswitch can go wherever you want as long as it isn't hitting tubes. Look like plenty of room to play around in there.


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## music6000

vigilante398 said:


> That definitely looks like an option. It looks like there would be enough room to move the board up a little bit so you don't have as much empty space up top, especially since the footswitch can go wherever you want as long as it isn't hitting tubes. Look like plenty of room to play around in there.


Yes, this was based on the Switchcraft Enclosed jack pictured on the right.
If using the Lumberg mini Jack below, Everything could move up!



        .........................


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## Robert

Got some tube sockets available (later today) for anyone who needs them.  








						9-pin Ceramic Tube Socket - PedalPCB.com
					

Ceramic Tube Socket




					www.pedalpcb.com


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## Robert

Felt I had to announce, otherwise folks would start accusing me of cloning the Black Eye.


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## music6000

Trivia : the GTO pedal is short for *G*ain,* T*one, *O*utput!
I thought it was named that because the Original is nearly the same size as the Car!!!


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## temol

I always thought it was something like Guitar Tube Overdrive 
Here's something interesting - almost 4 hours long ToneTalk podcast with Mike Soldano.
1:47:00 - he talks about GTO.


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## fydo

This is a fantastic project. Thank you, @vigilante398.

I'm about to pull the trigger on this, as my first time trying to build something with tubes. I saw in the interview that temol posted that the latest release of the pedal runs on 12V. What power requirements does this circuit have? Thanks in advance.


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## vigilante398

fydo said:


> This is a fantastic project. Thank you, @vigilante398.
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on this, as my first time trying to build something with tubes. I saw in the interview that temol posted that the latest release of the pedal runs on 12V. What power requirements does this circuit have? Thanks in advance.


It can run on 9V or 12V, there shouldn't be any tonal difference between the two. It will try to pull close to 1000mA when the tubes are heating up, but once it warms up it will settle back down to around 450mA. I recommend a power supply with at least 600mA of current.


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## temol

From what I remember - one 12AX7 = 150mA @ 12.6V and 300mA @ 6.3V. 12.6V and 6.3V it's a heater supply of course.


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## vigilante398

temol said:


> From what I remember - one 12AX7 = 150mA @ 12.6V and 300mA @ 6.3V. 12.6V and 6.3V it's a heater supply of course.


Yup, that's correct. If you run heaters at a lower voltage it saves you a little current, and I've found that if you run them in series at 9V they heat up enough to run fine, so I typically do that. I did some tests and if I remember right they pulled around 125mA per tube at 9V. The Matsumin Valvecaster does the same thing for 9V operation, but obviously we have the advantage here of running the plates at high voltage.


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## fydo

vigilante398 said:


> It can run on 9V or 12V, there shouldn't be any tonal difference...


Ah, perfect! I'm quite happy as I was looking for an excuse to upgrade my pedalboard's power supply. Haha.

Thank you for the information and for all your hard work putting this project together. I'm looking forward to assembling it and hopefully I won't have to bug you with any more questions.


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## THeHammer82

First time ordering from Tayda 😂


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## Bricksnbeatles

Seeing @peccary ’s recent post in the mailbox thread prompted me to buy the PCB and enclosure, plus one of those little high voltage boards. Looking forward to building it! 
I think some of my fellow Zappa fans might have a good guess as to what I’ll be doing with the graphics for it.


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## giovanni

Out of stock!!!! I’m always late to the party! Do you plan on getting more made?


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## vigilante398

giovanni said:


> Out of stock!!!! I’m always late to the party! Do you plan on getting more made?


Yup, already ordered, I'll have another 20 that should be here by Friday. I'll keep offering them as long as there is demand.


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## matt3310

I want two!!


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## vigilante398

matt3310 said:


> I want two!!


Mmkay, just give me a couple days.


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## Fingolfen

Gotta try this one...


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## Bricksnbeatles

@vigilante398 is the drill template in the build doc the same vent layout as the milled enclosures? Ordered the PCB and enclosure last night; in the meantime I figured I might get started on the artwork design, and I plan on having the vent holes incorporated in the artwork. If not, I’ll just wait until it arrives and take a 100% scale scan of the face to get the graphics started.


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## vigilante398

Bricksnbeatles said:


> @vigilante398 is the drill template in the build doc the same vent layout as the milled enclosures? Ordered the PCB and enclosure last night; in the meantime I figured I might get started on the artwork design, and I plan on having the vent holes incorporated in the artwork. If not, I’ll just wait until it arrives and take a 100% scale scan of the face to get the graphics started.


Yup, I milled the first few enclosures before I made the drill template so I used the existing enclosures to verify the drill template and the holes and slots should line up pretty darn close. The jack placement might be a little different as I went back and forth on the position for those a couple times, but everything on the face should be the same.


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## Bricksnbeatles

vigilante398 said:


> Yup, I milled the first few enclosures before I made the drill template so I used the existing enclosures to verify the drill template and the holes and slots should line up pretty darn close. The jack placement might be a little different as I went back and forth on the position for those a couple times, but everything on the face should be the same.


Awesome! I’ll get the graphics going and then make any tweaks necessary once I have the enclosure on hand.


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## giovanni

I really want to build one of these but I am scared of high voltages!


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## Gordo

This is entirely too much fun.  Despite the tiny board and 3/4 page BOM there is a lot of crammage here.  Let me just get this out of the way:  This thing sounds fabulous.  Lots of fat gain on tap and capable of ridiculous amounts of volume.  I like the voicing on the tone control, no flubby bottom end (well it IS a Soldano) but no shrill highs either.  Fairly quiet given that it's got a ton of available gain, although I might geek out and use shielded cable.

If you've never built a high volt project before it's almost an optical illusion plugging a One Spot in and getting high volts out.  I snapped a pic of the multimeter with no tubes plugged in on it's first power up.  The usual time that people get hurt working with these is when you trouble shoot.  All logic and methodology goes out the window and the next thing you know you're grabbing a part with both hands...  Just stay calm and you should have no issues.  It's quite an easy build.

The tubes are bench tubes I have kicking around for amp repairs and the thing STILL sounds great.  I'll be swapping them out with a couple of JJ's I suspect, once I get this enclosure nice and pretty.  Nathan I'd say you knocked this one out of the park, really nice job here.


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## music6000

Gordo said:


> This is entirely too much fun.  Despite the tiny board and 3/4 page BOM there is a lot of crammage here.  Let me just get this out of the way:  This thing sounds fabulous.  Lots of fat gain on tap and capable of ridiculous amounts of volume.  I like the voicing on the tone control, no flubby bottom end (well it IS a Soldano) but no shrill highs either.  Fairly quiet given that it's got a ton of available gain, although I might geek out and use shielded cable.
> 
> If you've never built a high volt project before it's almost an optical illusion plugging a One Spot in and getting high volts out.  I snapped a pic of the multimeter with no tubes plugged in on it's first power up.  The usual time that people get hurt working with these is when you trouble shoot.  All logic and methodology goes out the window and the next thing you know you're grabbing a part with both hands...  Just stay calm and you should have no issues.  It's quite an easy build.
> 
> The tubes are bench tubes I have kicking around for amp repairs and the thing STILL sounds great.  I'll be swapping them out with a couple of JJ's I suspect, once I get this enclosure nice and pretty.  Nathan I'd say you knocked this one out of the park, really nice job here.
> 
> View attachment 28441View attachment 28442View attachment 28443


Just curious, with the Gain set to minimum where it works, where is the Volume pot at Unity???
When the Gain is at 12.00 O'clock, where is the Volume pot at Unity???


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## cwsquared

vigilante398 said:


> Yup, already ordered, I'll have another 20 that should be here by Friday. I'll keep offering them as long as there is demand.


I know where another one of those is gonna disappear to.  <clicks refresh on Sushibox site>  Damn it, it's not Friday yet.


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## THeHammer82

My board and enclosure showed up yesterday. I won’t have the rest of the parts until Monday though. Oh well lol.


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## vigilante398

music6000 said:


> Just curious, with the Gain set to minimum where it works, where is the Volume pot at Unity???
> When the Gain is at 12.00 O'clock, where is the Volume pot at Unity???


There is a "gain floor" resistor on the gain pot, so even full CCW you're getting some signal. With gain full CCW, Volume pot is around 2:00 at unity. With gain at 12:00, Volume pot is also around 2:00 at unity.

Test was taken with a SD JB bridge pickup, Tone pot was left at 12:00 for all tests, and it looks like I have a pair of JJ/Tesla 12AX7 installed. Signal was run straight from guitar through the pedal direct into an interface, where the waveform amplitudes were compared in my DAW.

There's a pretty steep resistor divider at the output so it's possible to get above unity, but even fully cranked you won't blow up your amplifier input. You can adjust this resistor divider ratio if you want a hotter output, but those are the numbers "stock".


----------



## vigilante398

Gordo said:


> This is entirely too much fun.  Despite the tiny board and 3/4 page BOM there is a lot of crammage here.  Let me just get this out of the way:  This thing sounds fabulous.  Lots of fat gain on tap and capable of ridiculous amounts of volume.  I like the voicing on the tone control, no flubby bottom end (well it IS a Soldano) but no shrill highs either.  Fairly quiet given that it's got a ton of available gain, although I might geek out and use shielded cable.
> 
> If you've never built a high volt project before it's almost an optical illusion plugging a One Spot in and getting high volts out.  I snapped a pic of the multimeter with no tubes plugged in on it's first power up.  The usual time that people get hurt working with these is when you trouble shoot.  All logic and methodology goes out the window and the next thing you know you're grabbing a part with both hands...  Just stay calm and you should have no issues.  It's quite an easy build.
> 
> The tubes are bench tubes I have kicking around for amp repairs and the thing STILL sounds great.  I'll be swapping them out with a couple of JJ's I suspect, once I get this enclosure nice and pretty.  Nathan I'd say you knocked this one out of the park, really nice job here.
> 
> View attachment 28441View attachment 28442View attachment 28443


Excellent, glad to hear you're enjoying it! Looks great!


----------



## Feral Feline

vigilante398 said:


> Mmkay, just give me a couple days.
> 
> View attachment 28410


This made me home-sick for my home away from home.

I want one, may have to order two, too — myself and a friend.

Graphics to be bassed [sic] upon:







Here come da Judge!


----------



## szukalski

+1 on page refresh to grab one after being late to the party!

Looks awesome


----------



## vigilante398

szukalski said:


> +1 on page refresh to grab one after being late to the party!
> 
> Looks awesome


DHL usually delivers my PCB orders a day or two before the original ETA, but it looks like they're still on time for delivery tomorrow. They just cleared customs, so still on track.


----------



## Robert

vigilante398 said:


> DHL usually delivers my PCB orders a day or two before the original ETA,



Am I the only one who gets all unreasonably anxious when the package is "late"?   (not delivered _ahead_ of the ETA)

UPS won't do it.   If a package gets here days ahead of the delivery date they will actually hold it at the hub until the ETA.


----------



## szukalski

Robert said:


> Am I the only one who gets all unreasonably anxious when the package is "late"?   (not delivered _ahead_ of the ETA)


Your anxiety levels would be out the roof over here..

Mouser ETA 3 days. Actual time 10 days.
Tayda (DHL) ETA July 3rd. Actual time, still in customs now.

Don't get me started with my PedalPCB orders across the pond. I get blue balls every time.

I am writing a new book, Pedal Building in the EU and the Art of Zen.

On the plus side, finally got some Lumberg KLBM in stock over here, so I got that going for me.


----------



## THeHammer82

I’m about 1.5 hours away from Mouser’s Houston warehouse so I normally get things the next day. 

I really need to learn how to design my own artwork. I will probably end up getting Adobe illustrator for awhile since there are so many tutorials for it.


----------



## szukalski

THeHammer82 said:


> I really need to learn how to design my own artwork. I will probably end up getting Adobe illustrator for awhile since there are so many tutorials for it.


I think you can get by with Inkscape and Affinity Designer. I’ll let you know once my Tayda order comes in. 

The process was a pretty good one for me, I haven’t seen the results yet though.


----------



## giovanni

szukalski said:


> I think you can get by with Inkscape and Affinity Designer. I’ll let you know once my Tayda order comes in.
> 
> The process was a pretty good one for me, I haven’t seen the results yet though.


I’d like to know about that. I worry that they can’t handle AD files.


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

Rumor has it that Adobe will be making illustrator available completely free for non-commercial use soon


----------



## szukalski

giovanni said:


> I’d like to know about that. I worry that they can’t handle AD files.


I’m not sure what an AD file is. 



Bricksnbeatles said:


> Rumor has it that Adobe will be making illustrator available completely free for non-commercial use soon


That would make sense to drive their enterprise sales. It would completely kill competition.


----------



## szukalski

giovanni said:


> I’d like to know about that. I worry that they can’t handle AD files.


Aah Affinity Designer.. it’s not about AD files, it’s about exporting the pdf correctly. You can check the pdf layers with Adobe reader. I think the main problem in the past is that people mess up the pdf layer part.


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

szukalski said:


> I’m not sure what an AD file is.
> 
> 
> That would make sense to drive their enterprise sales. It would completely kill competition.


Yeah, the idea is that the people who pirate it wouldn’t pay for it anyway, and if there’s free competition available, non-paying customers will migrate to that instead. By having it be free, it makes it so more people will use it instead of the competition, and once they’re adept at it, they’ll be more likely to work jobs where the company then has to pay for an expensive multi-use license. As it stands, most young graphic designers got their start with pirated copies of the Adobe suite, so if the next generation of graphic designers wind up learning on a different software instead, it’ll be lost commercial license sales down the road.


----------



## giovanni

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Yeah, the idea is that the people who pirate it wouldn’t pay for it anyway, and if there’s free competition available, non-paying customers will migrate to that instead. By having it be free, it makes it so more people will use it instead of the competition, and once they’re adept at it, they’ll be more likely to work jobs where the company then has to pay for an expensive multi-use license. As it stands, most young graphic designers got their start with pirated copies of the Adobe suite, so if the next generation of graphic designers wind up learning on a different software instead, it’ll be lost commercial license sales down the road.


That’s basically the Windows playbook from the 90s and early 2000s.


----------



## benny_profane

They made CS4 free a bit ago. I’d be surprised if they provided full capability versions since they’ve gone all-in on the subscription model. But I’m certainly willing to be surprised. 

Yeah, the issue with affinity is not that it can’t produce usable files, it’s that many people weren’t/aren’t applying spot colors nor exporting correctly. For a bit, tayda was correcting errors or sending people a heads up, but that is in no way sustainable.


----------



## Barry

Robert said:


> Am I the only one who gets all unreasonably anxious when the package is "late"?   (not delivered _ahead_ of the ETA)
> 
> UPS won't do it.   If a package gets here days ahead of the delivery date they will actually hold it at the hub until the ETA.


Biastards!


----------



## THeHammer82

To my surprise all the parts showed up today and I just finished getting the Black Eye together. It sounds great until I turn the gain up about half way and then it starts feedbacking non-stop. Any ideas?


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

THeHammer82 said:


> To my surprise all the parts showed up today and I just finished getting the Black Eye together. It sounds great until I turn the gain up about half way and then it starts feedbacking non-stop. Any ideas?


With the caveat that I know very little about tube circuits other than how to read a schematic and how to build them, could it be a microphonic tube or a loosely inserted tube? If you give the enclosure a few taps with a screwdriver or something else fairly hard, do you get any sort of response in the signal?


----------



## THeHammer82

Bricksnbeatles said:


> With the caveat that I know very little about tube circuits other than how to read a schematic and how to build them, could it be a microphonic tube or a loosely inserted tube? If you give the enclosure a few taps with a screwdriver or something else fairly hard, do you get any sort of response in the signal?


Tried swapping tubes and made sure they were fully inserted with no change. I had a couple of tube shields laying around so I tried sliding them over the tubes which helped quite a bit but something still doesn’t seem right.


----------



## szukalski

THeHammer82 said:


> To my surprise all the parts showed up today and I just finished getting the Black Eye together. It sounds great until I turn the gain up about half way and then it starts feedbacking non-stop. Any ideas?


Same issue without a guitar signal?

Trying to rule out single coils or similar.


----------



## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> To my surprise all the parts showed up today and I just finished getting the Black Eye together. It sounds great until I turn the gain up about half way and then it starts feedbacking non-stop. Any ideas?


Common things I see in tube circuits are:

power supply not providing enough current (make sure it can supply at least 600mA)
tubes oscillating, in which case a tube shield with a spring inside helps a lot
noise from not being inside a grounded enclosure
Just a couple thoughts, things to look at. Let us know if you figure anything else out.


----------



## temol

Also
- shielded IN/OUT cables,
- switch wiring as short as possible, maybe even shielded signal cables (if possible),


----------



## THeHammer82

I double checked my pedalboard PSU and yep, it’s rated for 250mA per outlet 🤦🏻‍♂️😂


----------



## benny_profane

@vigilante398 — what PSU do you typically use? All of my PSU taps and wall-wart adapters max out at 500mA.


----------



## THeHammer82

I’m going to try this one. True Tone 1 SPOT


----------



## Robert

THeHammer82 said:


> I’m going to try this one. True Tone 1 SPOT



That's what I use.  (Haven't built this one yet though)


----------



## giovanni

I think that one is rated at 1000mA?


----------



## jubal81

Robert said:


> That's what I use.  (Haven't built this one yet though)


I use it for tube pedals. Works fine. 1,700mA.


----------



## Robert

Yep.


----------



## vigilante398

Everyone else beat me to it, I also use a OneSpot. I have a Cioks DC-7 on my board that can do up to 660mA per tap, but it's more convenient to run single pedals off the board with a OneSpot.


----------



## THeHammer82

Amazon says my 1Spot will be here Sunday but I have my doubts lol. 

I think I’m going to get a powder coating gun and go to town on all of my pedals.


----------



## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> Amazon says my 1Spot will be here Sunday but I have my doubts lol.
> 
> I think I’m going to get a powder coating gun and go to town on all of my pedals.


I support this. I'm on my third powdercoating gun, I've been progressively upgrading


----------



## vigilante398

The lovely DHL people just brought my new PCB order, so I have 20 more Black Eye boards. I have a bunch of stuff to do but I'll try to get onto the website tonight and get them posted.

I also got the revised boards for my Space Heater preamp, I hope to find time to verify that tonight so I can get those on the website as well.


----------



## matt3310

I keep hitting refresh!!!


----------



## THeHammer82

vigilante398 said:


> I support this. I'm on my third powdercoating gun, I've been progressively upgrading


What gun are you using now? I have a 2001 Yamaha Raptor 660R that I’m fixing up and being able to coat all of the small parts would make life mucho easier.


----------



## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> What gun are you using now? I have a 2001 Yamaha Raptor 660R that I’m fixing up and being able to coat all of the small parts would make life mucho easier.


Right now I'm using a Redline EZ50. It's not cheap, but it's by far the best gun I've used. I started with the Harbor Freight gun and that was okay to learn with, but it seemed like some powders didn't like it very much. Then I upgraded to the Eastwood PCS-250 which was a lot better, but the construction wasn't super solid and I'm super clumsy, so I broke it after a few months. I had been eying the Redline and it seemed like a lot of money, but I said screw it, it's a tax deduction anyway. And I love it, I've had zero problems with it.

I obviously mostly coat pedal enclosures, but I also do the occasional guitar/amp hardware and household stuff (recently did door hinges, stair railing mounts, and an outdoor light fixture for the house).


----------



## vigilante398

matt3310 said:


> I keep hitting refresh!!!


I just updated the website, it should say 20 in stock now. So @giovanni @Fingolfen @cwsquared @Feral Feline and @szukalski, have at it my dudes.

Unfortunately there still seems to be something wrong with the Space Heater board design. It's weird, it's hands-down the simplest preamp I make, and I can't seem to get a DIY version of it working  back to the drawing board, I guess.


----------



## Feral Feline

Thanks a bunch! I've got two Black Eyes...





... and a High Voltage, too.

Pity 'bout the Space Heater — Looking forward to ordering that one when it gets sorted out.


----------



## Robert

vigilante398 said:


> Right now I'm using a Redline EZ50.


Good to know.   Right now I'm playing with a Harbor Freight gun while I get my booth and oven set up and have been eyeballing the Redline.   I've been hammering on a ground rod for weeks now, it's just been too damned hot to stay out there very long!    

It rained last night so today will probably be a good day to finish that up.

Are powder changes fairly easy with that one?


----------



## THeHammer82

I’ve also thought about using Cerakote but I don’t think the waterslide would adhere correctly.


----------



## vigilante398

Robert said:


> Good to know.   Right now I'm playing with a Harbor Freight gun while I get my booth and oven set up and have been eyeballing the Redline.   I've been hammering on a ground rod for weeks now, it's just been too damned hot to stay out there very long!
> 
> It rained last night so today will probably be a good day to finish that up.
> 
> Are powder changes fairly easy with that one?


Easy-ish. You still have to clean out the gun during the swap, but I think it's the easiest of the ones I've used to clean.


----------



## Fingolfen

vigilante398 said:


> I just updated the website, it should say 20 in stock now. So @giovanni @Fingolfen @cwsquared @Feral Feline and @szukalski, have at it my dudes.
> 
> Unfortunately there still seems to be something wrong with the Space Heater board design. It's weird, it's hands-down the simplest preamp I make, and I can't seem to get a DIY version of it working  back to the drawing board, I guess.


Ordered!


----------



## Gordo

And it's done.  Nothing fancy with the graphics, I went with a hot-rod violet primer sort of look and waterslide decal.


----------



## vigilante398

Gordo said:


> And it's done.  Nothing fancy with the graphics, I went with a hot-rod violet primer sort of look and waterslide decal.
> 
> View attachment 28643View attachment 28644View attachment 28645View attachment 28646


Oh my goodness, I absolutely love it. Nicely done @Gordo!


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

I’m


Gordo said:


> And it's done.  Nothing fancy with the graphics, I went with a hot-rod violet primer sort of look and waterslide decal.
> 
> View attachment 28643View attachment 28644View attachment 28645View attachment 28646


snazzy as always!


----------



## Robert

Fanthy!


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

Gordo said:


> And it's done.  Nothing fancy with the graphics, I went with a hot-rod violet primer sort of look and waterslide decal.
> 
> View attachment 28643View attachment 28644View attachment 28645View attachment 28646


What paint is that btw? I’ve been looking for pretty much that exact color for a thing I’m doing


----------



## cwsquared

Ordered.  I am gonna have some great stuff to post in the mailbox thread soon.  PPCB, Aion, Sushibox.


----------



## Gordo

I’ll get the exact color tomorrow but it’s a Rustoleum satin from Home Depot.


----------



## THeHammer82

So far I have not been able to stop the pedal from squealing. Swapped to a 1spot power supply, added shielded in and out wires, put tube shields on, still squeals 🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Gordo

I had some major grounding issues till I realized that I was using isolated jacks (duh...).  I'm using a 1Spot as well.  The paint, btw, is Rust-Oleum Painter's Touch 2X Ultracover.  The color is called French Lilac Satin.  Worth noting that although it covers well its a good idea to lightly sand and then thoroughly clean the enclosure.  The paint itself was no issue but when I shot satin clean over the decals part of the backside wrinkled up.  Heartbreaking to say the least but I managed to sand it out and reshoot with no issues.  Go really light on the clear coat and shoot a bunch of light coats rather than soaking it.


----------



## benny_profane

Do the tubes glow with this circuit?


----------



## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> So far I have not been able to stop the pedal from squealing. Swapped to a 1spot power supply, added shielded in and out wires, put tube shields on, still squeals 🤦🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️


Do you have it mounted in the enclosure? Putting the circuit into a grounded enclosure helps with a lot of things, but I would also encourage you to take a look at the board and make sure there aren't any solder bridges or accidental shorts. A lot of the pads are pretty close together, and I could definitely see it happening.



benny_profane said:


> Do the tubes glow with this circuit?


The brightness of the heaters depends largely on the brand of the tube, but 12AX7 heaters don't glow as brightly as power tubes like EL84, 6L6, etc or submini tubes like 6N21B. The reason being the filament current draw is lower, they don't need to heat up as much for the electrons to flow. If glowing tubes is important to you, you could:

put an LED behind the tube. How you do this is up to you, but this is the easiest and probably best to get increased tube glow.
run the heaters at a higher voltage. The filaments in the tube are a fixed resistance, so the higher the voltage you give them the more power they will dissipate, and therefore the brighter they will glow. This will negatively impact the lifespan of the tube at the expense of looking neat, and I do not recommend it. 12.6V is the recommended heater voltage per the datasheet, and at that voltage they will be more noticeable than at 9V, but you could probably get away with running a little higher without immediately frying it. It will fry faster than it would otherwise though. That's an added benefit of running it with 9V on the heater, it prolongs the life of the tube.


----------



## THeHammer82

I went over the board looking for any shorts but didn’t find any. After I got it mounted back up it started working right so who knows lol. There is still a little squealing if the gain is turned up all the way and the volume is at unity. Backing off of the gain a little takes care of the squealing with no noticeable change in tone so I’m guessing it’s normal. 

Now that the squealing is gone and it’s being powered correctly it sounds amazing!


----------



## THeHammer82

The original GTO was a chonky boi!


----------



## Mentaltossflycoon

THeHammer82 said:


> The original GTO was a chonky boi!


Giant and the knobs are still kind of close to the stomper. It does look like it's going to sound enormous though.


----------



## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> The original GTO was a chonky boi!


Yup, I hope to own an original someday if I can find a reasonable deal on one. I had a chance to pick one up for $600 a year ago, but I thought $600 was too steep at the time so I turned it down  I obviously don't need one, but it really is my favorite tone in the world and the nostalgia of owning an original would be cool.


----------



## Harry Klippton

Meanwhile I had never heard of this pedal til this thread


----------



## vigilante398

Harry Klippton said:


> Meanwhile I had never heard of this pedal til this thread


Yeah it wasn't a super popular one for some reason, they didn't make very many. I had actually never heard of it until someone on another forum did a DIY project for it (that wasn't very well-designed and I hated it) and started looking into it. I built my first one in 2018 with 6N21B and fell in love with the sound, it's been my go-to dirt pedal ever since.


----------



## THeHammer82

Mike Soldano said the originals got a bad rap for being noisy because of ground loop issues. He said lifting the ground would take care of the issue but he couldn’t put that in the instructions for liability reasons.


----------



## Gordo

It was pretty spendy in its day as well. To say nothing of the fact it’s the size of a toaster oven. Instead of cranking on the heaters I want to fiddle with some led backlighting.


----------



## vigilante398

Gordo said:


> It was pretty spendy in its day as well. To say nothing of the fact it’s the size of a toaster oven. Instead of cranking on the heaters I want to fiddle with some led backlighting.


I was debating putting spots for LEDs under the tube sockets on the board, but there was just no room for CLRs in there  if I was really clever I could have put the spots in there and put SMD pads for resistors so people that wanted them would have to really want them but could get them. Too late now though I'm afraid, and naturally there are traces running everywhere under the sockets so there aren't any safe spaces to drill into the PCB to make room for an LED. Sorry guys


----------



## Robert

I remember back in the day Radio Shack used to have LEDs with built in current limiting resistors.


----------



## vigilante398

Well I'm pretty sure I found the mistake in my Space Heater preamp boards. I won't know for sure for another week or two, but I think I got it. And it was a dumb mistake, as most are.


----------



## Deperduci

I can't wait to hook this 1 up after I get the parts I didn't have in the spares box. I wonder how to connect this with a solid state power section... IE 'old and poor man's' JTM 45 

For now I'll just have it as the last pedal before the amp.


----------



## matt3310

I got one of mine built yesterday and all I can say is DAMN!! It sounds great!!


----------



## vigilante398

matt3310 said:


> I got one of mine built yesterday and all I can say is DAMN!! It sounds great!!


Excellent, glad to hear it!


----------



## chongmagic

I can't wait to build one of these!


----------



## music6000

matt3310 said:


> I got one of mine built yesterday and all I can say is DAMN!! It sounds great!!


Talks Cheap, We want Pictures!


----------



## matt3310




----------



## matt3310

Newest one


----------



## jimilee

Very cool!


----------



## Pauleo1214

Darn it, you're out of stock.


----------



## vigilante398

Pauleo1214 said:


> Darn it, you're out of stock.


I know, they're on order. I'm getting a lot more this time so they should last a lot longer. I'll hopefully have them late this week/early next week.


----------



## Betty Wont

C1, the 10uf cap. Is that cap ok at 250v rating with ~245v plus heat happening? Should I derate that cap more or is it going to be ok at 250v?


----------



## vigilante398

Betty Wont said:


> C1, the 10uf cap. Is that cap ok at 250v rating with ~245v plus heat happening? Should I derate that cap more or is it going to be ok at 250v?


Should be fine at 250V, that's what I always use. The heat shouldn't be enough to derate to unsafe levels.


----------



## Betty Wont

vigilante398 said:


> Should be fine at 250V, that's what I always use. The heat shouldn't be enough to derate to unsafe levels.


Thank you!!!


----------



## vigilante398

Well it appears I goofed. I'm fully aware that you can't fit top jacks on the 1590BB enclosure, but apparently I was distracted while drilling the jacks on at least three Black Eye enclosures, one of which went out to a customer. I don't know how many more there are out there, hopefully none, but if you get a pre-drilled enclosure from me that is drilled for top jacks instead of side jacks please let me know and I'll either refund you for the box or send you a new box.


----------



## MGB

Will you still be offering predrilled enclosures with the new PCB restock ?
Can they be painted ?


----------



## MGB

Duh... sorry. The info is there: '' A pre-drilled enclosure is available for an additional cost.''


----------



## Dan0h

vigilante398 said:


> Well it appears I goofed. I'm fully aware that you can't fit top jacks on the 1590BB enclosure, but apparently I was distracted while drilling the jacks on at least three Black Eye enclosures, one of which went out to a customer. I don't know how many more there are out there, hopefully none, but if you get a pre-drilled enclosure from me that is drilled for top jacks instead of side jacks please let me know and I'll either refund you for the box or send you a new box.


Bummer. Just checked mine.


----------



## matt3310

Just realized I got 6 of the wrong drilled boxes.


----------



## HamishR

As someone who builds a lot of tube amps I'd be a little concerned at running a ribbon cable right on top of a tube! Don't you worry about melted insulation or noise?

BTW I think you have done an incredible job - I'm super impressed and might just buy a PCB when I have more time. Or I might wait until you do a Badcat Two-tone tube overdrive.    Mercury Magnetics do an AC transformer for a Matchless Hotbox which is almost identical...


----------



## vigilante398

Dan0h said:


> Bummer. Just checked mine.
> View attachment 29961





matt3310 said:


> Just realized I got 6 of the wrong drilled boxes.


Looks like I have 8 enclosures to re-do, so I'll be needing to place a new enclosure order. I'll get them ordered now, I should have them ready to ship out in a few days. Sorry for the inconvenience everyone 😕


HamishR said:


> As someone who builds a lot of tube amps I'd be a little concerned at running a ribbon cable right on top of a tube! Don't you worry about melted insulation or noise?
> 
> BTW I think you have done an incredible job - I'm super impressed and might just buy a PCB when I have more time. Or I might wait until you do a Badcat Two-tone tube overdrive.    Mercury Magnetics do an AC transformer for a Matchless Hotbox which is almost identical...


These are preamp tubes, not power amp tubes, they don't run very hot. I'm not worried at all. I've done a Matchless Hotbox clone (I think I still have my personal unit somewhere), but I discontinued it as it didn't sell well enough for me to justify the time it took to keep the design updated. I don't deal with transformers and line voltage though, I exclusively use 9-12VDC inputs through an SMPS for pedals. It saves money, saves space, and I believe you shouldn't need a separate power supply for just one pedal.


----------



## Dan0h

vigilante398 said:


> Looks like I have 8 enclosures to re-do, so I'll be needing to place a new enclosure order. I'll get them ordered now, I should have them ready to ship out in a few days. Sorry for the inconvenience everyone 😕.


@vigilante398 You don’t need to send me another box, I will drill the side holes and find a clever way to plug the extra top. *Feel free to kick back a few bucks to my PayPal if you like. Order #1349. *


In regards to heat and that ribbon cable placement, I remember using the ART MP tube pre decades ago when I first started getting into recording and those never got hot at all, and were cram packed in little foot-pedal like enclosures - at the time I didn’t know any better… - but they never got even warm let alone hot. Since the black eye is all about gain I don’t think noise would be that much of a concern, but I still might run some spaghetti wires vs having a tube that close to a ribbon.


----------



## Betty Wont

Dan0h said:


> I will drill the side holes and find a clever way to plug the extra top.


I just found these lovely devices in an old lab at work. They plug proper.


----------



## vigilante398

I just put this together so I obviously haven't had a chance to order it and test the fit, but this should be good for the Black Eye drills. I'm still new to Tayda's drill setup so I haven't played with rounding off the ends of the vent slots yet, but I also kind of dig the sharp look.





__





						Tayda Electronics Drill
					

Tayda Electronics Drill Designer for custom enclosures.




					drill.taydakits.com
				




EDIT: to clarify my statement of "should be good", I scanned one of the boxes I had milled then imported the scan to Coreldraw and overlaid the CNC file over the scan and plotted the coordinates in there then moved them into Tayda's tool. A bit tedious, but seems to give workable results.


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## vigilante398

Alright, I got a big order of 1590BB in today so I'll get going on replacement boxes for those that I messed up, should ship out sometime this weekend.

On that note the restock batch of Black Eye PCBs I ordered have been shipped and should be here early next week.


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## Betty Wont

THeHammer82 said:


> I went over the board looking for any shorts but didn’t find any. After I got it mounted back up it started working right so who knows lol. There is still a little squealing if the gain is turned up all the way and the volume is at unity. Backing off of the gain a little takes care of the squealing with no noticeable change in tone so I’m guessing it’s normal.
> 
> Now that the squealing is gone and it’s being powered correctly it sounds amazing!


Hrm, I'm glad you got yours working. Mine squeals with the gain past noon and I've tried all the suggestions above. I'm using a one Spot adapter.  I'm stumped on this one.


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## jubal81

Betty Wont said:


> Hrm, I'm glad you got yours working. Mine squeals with the gain past noon and I've tried all the suggestions above. I'm using a one Spot adapter.  I'm stumped on this one.


Have you tried a buffer in front of it?


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## Betty Wont

jubal81 said:


> Have you tried a buffer in front of it?


No dice. It actually squeals without anything plugged into the input too.


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## music6000

Betty Wont said:


> No dice. It actually squeals without anything plugged into the input too.


I'm curious if it is tube related, what Brand & how old are they????
Can you take a Picture of the components with the Tubes removed????


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## Betty Wont

music6000 said:


> I'm curious if it is tube related, what Brand & how old are they????
> Can you take a Picture of the components with the Tubes removed????


They are new JJs from the build doc link. 4 tubes in all combinations same results. I'll strip it out and start my first proper troubleshooting thread! I'm scared as frick to open it up. 🤣


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## music6000

Betty Wont said:


> They are new JJs from the build doc link. 4 tubes in all combinations same results. I'll strip it out and start my first proper troubleshooting thread! I'm scared as frick to open it up. 🤣


As vigilante pointed out, Only handle with one hand with plug removed with a non conductive probe!!!!


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## music6000

music6000 said:


> As vigilante pointed out, Only handle with one hand with plug removed with a non conductive probe!!!!


For shits & giggles, you could try 12AU7's, 12AT7's, 12AY7's or Ecc80 equivalents????
I tamed my Sib Cuda down with 12AT7's as I didn't need all that gain with 12AX7''s!!!


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## Betty Wont

music6000 said:


> For shits & giggles, you could try 12AU7's, 12AT7's, 12AY7's or Ecc80 equivalents????


Meh. I'm already $80 into tubes for this and I have no other use for tubes.


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## Dan0h

Let us know what you find @Betty Wont , I plan on buildling mine out this weekend, and I hope I don't have the *Screech* on mine. I accidently bumped a loaded 700V cap (Two 350s) with a screw driver once and the sound/spark it made scared the shit Poop out of me.


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## Fingolfen

Thanks for the drill template! Now I have to come up with some suitability fun enclosure art....


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## Dan0h

Quick question: C1 in the build doc and the link provided in the doc is for a 10uF 250v. But the board shows 10uF 400v. Which one is correct? Will the 250v be maxed out? Apologies if this has already been asked. @vigilante398


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## music6000

Dan0h said:


> Quick question: C1 in the build doc and the link provided in the doc is for a 10uF 250v. But the board shows 10uF 400v. Which one is correct? Will the 250v be maxed out? Apologies if this has already been asked. @vigilante398


I'm curious too coz the 10uf 400v from Tayda is 20c & what I would prefer to use!?
It's the same diam but 3mm longer????


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## Betty Wont

Dan0h said:


> Quick question: C1 in the build doc and the link provided in the doc is for a 10uF 250v. But the board shows 10uF 400v. Which one is correct? Will the 250v be maxed out? Apologies if this has already been asked. @vigilante398





Betty Wont said:


> C1, the 10uf cap. Is that cap ok at 250v rating with ~245v plus heat happening? Should I derate that cap more or is it going to be ok at 250v?


vigilante398:​Should be fine at 250V, that's what I always use. The heat shouldn't be enough to derate to unsafe levels.


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## vigilante398

Betty Wont said:


> vigilante398:​Should be fine at 250V, that's what I always use. The heat shouldn't be enough to derate to unsafe levels.


Sorry for not getting to this sooner. That's correct, 250V is fine, but 400V is also fine if you have it on hand as they are the same diameter (at least at Tayda). I can tell anyone interested how to mod the power supply to 350V instead of 240V, in which case you would need a 400V cap. But if you're building as-is per the design, a 250V cap is sufficient.


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## Dan0h

Betty Wont said:


> vigilante398:​Should be fine at 250V, that's what I always use. The heat shouldn't be enough to derate to unsafe levels.


I knew I saw something about this but this morning when I looked at the board and saw 400v I thought I miss ordered with the 250v


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## Dan0h

vigilante398 said:


> Sorry for not getting to this sooner. That's correct, 250V is fine, but 400V is also fine if you have it on hand as they are the same diameter (at least at Tayda). I can tell anyone interested how to mod the power supply to 350V instead of 240V, in which case you would need a 400V cap. But if you're building as-is per the design, a 250V cap is sufficient.


Cool. Excited for this weekend.


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## Deperduci

vigilante398 said:


> Sorry for not getting to this sooner. That's correct, 250V is fine, but 400V is also fine if you have it on hand as they are the same diameter (at least at Tayda). I can tell anyone interested how to mod the power supply to 350V instead of 240V, in which case you would need a 400V cap. But if you're building as-is per the design, a 250V cap is sufficient.


Something I should have asked ya sooner, what's the max input voltage source? Is it 9v max or can it be brought up slightly but maybe no higher than 15~18v w/o toasting tubes or that poor capacitor...


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## vigilante398

Deperduci said:


> Something I should have asked ya sooner, what's the max input voltage source? Is it 9v max or can it be brought up slightly but maybe no higher than 15~18v w/o toasting tubes or that poor capacitor...


The NE555 used in the SMPS has an absolute max input of 18V, so that's the hard limit, but also note that the input voltage is going directly to the tube heaters, which are spec'd to 12.6V. The tube will still run at a higher voltage as tubes are more robust than solid-state devices and it won't fry immediately at 15V or so, but it would absolutely have a negative impact on tube life.

So for all practical purposes I would recommend an input of no less than 9V and no more than 12V.


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## Deperduci

thank you, that means the 12v 1.5 amp PSU I had been considering for this https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/power-regulators.12792/post-141256 won't cook anything. And also safe advice for those who use multi-tap PSU's like  Onespot and forget to drop the 12v back to 9v.


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## Dan0h

vigilante398 said:


> The NE555 used in the SMPS has an absolute max input of 18V, so that's the hard limit, but also note that the input voltage is going directly to the tube heaters, which are spec'd to 12.6V. The tube will still run at a higher voltage as tubes are more robust than solid-state devices and it won't fry immediately at 15V or so, but it would absolutely have a negative impact on tube life.
> 
> So for all practical purposes I would recommend an input of no less than 9V and no more than 12V.


Sweet. Once done, I will A-B 9v and 12v and see what they sound like. 🍻


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## vigilante398

Dan0h said:


> Sweet. Once done, I will A-B 9v and 12v and see what they sound like. 🍻


Oh I should have mentioned that, the SMPS has feedback and regulation, so it will give the same output voltage regardless of the input voltage. I've actually run this SMPS as low as 6V on the input and I still get about 240V on the output.


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## Dan0h

vigilante398 said:


> Oh I should have mentioned that, the SMPS has feedback and regulation, so it will give the same output voltage regardless of the input voltage. I've actually run this SMPS as low as 6V on the input and I still get about 240V on the output.


So the only difference would be what the heaters get directly?


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## vigilante398

Dan0h said:


> So the only difference would be what the heaters get directly?


Correct.


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## Deperduci

why I said coook, wasn't voltage fry, it was actual heat.


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## vigilante398

Deperduci said:


> why I said coook, wasn't voltage fry, it was actual heat.


With the filaments it's about the same thing; the more voltage you give them the hotter they get. That's another reason I like running them on 9V instead of 12V, they run a little cooler.


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## Deperduci

Aye, Fig found for me a proper regulator for 9v, I'll likely socket that spot and try both or finger out where to put a 68k and 220k resistor to drop the 12 down to 9.1(digikey'svoltaqge divider calculator's results). the drop for the 60 watt to black eye is a new animal unless I run 2 transformers..


----------



## Dan0h

Betty Wont said:


> Hrm, I'm glad you got yours working. Mine squeals with the gain past noon and I've tried all the suggestions above. I'm using a one Spot adapter.  I'm stumped on this one.


Does your squeal sound like feedback? On my build, gain past 11 o’clock I get insane feedback, which I could just ignore because I am in absolute love with the sound with the gain around 8-10 o’clock and I literally sit right in front of my amp in my bedroom so there might be that causing feedback too. But I was digging around and found people having similar issues with tube diy pedals and it was all about lead dress. So my plan is to shield all the internal spaghetti and see if that knocks out the feedback issue. I just want to see what this thing sounds like at max gain. Even though I’m 100% never going to use all that gain. Just wanted to share, the findings.


----------



## Betty Wont

Dan0h said:


> Does your squeal sound like feedback? On my build, gain past 11 o’clock I get insane feedback, which I could just ignore because I am in absolute love with the sound with the gain around 8-10 o’clock and I literally sit right in front of my amp in my bedroom so there might be that causing feedback too. But I was digging around and found people having similar issues with tube diy pedals and it was all about lead dress. So my plan is to shield all the internal spaghetti and see if that knocks out the feedback issue. I just want to see what this thing sounds like at max gain. Even though I’m 100% never going to use all that gain. Just wanted to share, the findings.


Its self oscillation I'm getting. It changes in pitch and intensity with the gain and vol pots. It sounds like a theremin trying to tune in Tokyo. Does yours feedback with nothing plugged into the input? Moving the unit doesn't effect the oscillation, like feedback might.


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## vigilante398

Betty Wont said:


> Its self oscillation I'm getting. It changes in pitch and intensity with the gain and vol pots. It sounds like a theremin trying to tune in Tokyo. Does yours feedback with nothing plugged into the input? Moving the unit doesn't effect the oscillation, like feedback might.


Does physically holding the tube change anything? I had a unit a few years ago that was self oscillating, and putting tube dampers over the tubes helped a lot.

That being said lead dress helps a lot, which is why I like the ribbon cable. I obviously won't say it's required and I understand some people don't like the look or are uncomfortable running it right behind the tube, but short, straight wire runs with the wires perfectly in parallel and a pair of DC (ground and V+) signals separating the input and output seems to help for stability.


----------



## Dan0h

vigilante398 said:


> Does physically holding the tube change anything? I had a unit a few years ago that was self oscillating, and putting tube dampers over the tubes helped a lot.
> 
> That being said lead dress helps a lot, which is why I like the ribbon cable. I obviously won't say it's required and I understand some people don't like the look or are uncomfortable running it right behind the tube, but short, straight wire runs with the wires perfectly in parallel and a pair of DC (ground and V+) signals separating the input and output seems to help for stability.





Betty Wont said:


> Its self oscillation I'm getting. It changes in pitch and intensity with the gain and vol pots. It sounds like a theremin trying to tune in Tokyo. Does yours feedback with nothing plugged into the input? Moving the unit doesn't effect the oscillation, like feedback might.


@Betty Wont Maybe I do have a case of the oscillation, and I’m pretty sure it’s my wire runs. I opted for the long route and I should have known better. Still on the fence if I want to do anything about it, as I am able to max gain and play, it’s just annoying when nothing is played with the squeal. But under 11 o’clock is perfectly free of squeal and where I will live on this pedal. 

@vigilante398 good point about the parallel runs. 

Pretty amazed at how close the protien Blue side sounds like a pretty close imitation of the black eye at low gain. Black eye wins by a long shot but the protein does a great job sounding tube-ish.


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## Betty Wont

vigilante398 said:


> Does physically holding the tube change anything? I had a unit a few years ago that was self oscillating, and putting tube dampers over the tubes helped a lot.
> 
> That being said lead dress helps a lot, which is why I like the ribbon cable. I obviously won't say it's required and I understand some people don't like the look or are uncomfortable running it right behind the tube, but short, straight wire runs with the wires perfectly in parallel and a pair of DC (ground and V+) signals separating the input and output seems to help for stability.


I tried swapping tubes and holding them down. I have tube dampers on them too. And I have short direct parallel wire runs the same as your proto. I'm down to it being a non-tube component issue. But I haven't built up the courage to probe. I'm going to try a fresh build and see what happens.


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## Dan0h

Is there a chance the IC is causing the issue? If so I’ll order one from mouser and swap the Tayda one out?


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## vigilante398

Dan0h said:


> Is there a chance the IC is causing the issue? If so I’ll order one from mouser and swap the Tayda one out?


It would be unlikely, my builds all use NE555 from Tayda and I haven't had any issues, but I guess I can't rule it out.


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## Tpruitt

Finally tried mine out.  Gain past 9 o’clock  and I get a squeal. Output past 3 o’clock too.  I ran my wires in parallel over the tube.   I’ll add a photo shortly.

Also, the tone knob doesn’t seem to have a very large range. I really had to clear my ears to hear much of a change.


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## Dan0h

Tpruitt said:


> Finally tried mine out.  Gain past 9 o’clock  and I get a squeal. Output past 3 o’clock too.  I ran my wires in parallel over the tube.   I’ll add a photo shortly.
> 
> Also, the tone knob doesn’t seem to have a very large range. I really had to clear my ears to hear much of a change.


I ordered some faraday tape and going to wrap all the wires when it shows up. I’ll let you guys know if that helps. Sounds like all three of us have the same issue. @Betty Wont


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## benny_profane

Is anyone experiencing squealing with the ribbon cable? @Betty Wont I couldn’t find a mention of what wiring you’re using.


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## Dan0h

benny_profane said:


> Is anyone experiencing squealing with the ribbon cable? @Betty Wont I couldn’t find a mention of what wiring you’re using.


Do ribbons have any shielding ability? Im pretty sure my issue is due to the spaghetti wires I ran. I’m also not to bothered as I love the sound below 10 o’clock on the gain. But it would be cool to resolve the squeal and know what caused it.


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## Betty Wont

benny_profane said:


> Is anyone experiencing squealing with the ribbon cable? @Betty Wont I couldn’t find a mention of what wiring you’re using.


I used regular wire but placed it tight, straight, and parallel just like ribbon cable.


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## Betty Wont

Dan0h said:


> Do ribbons have any shielding ability? Im pretty sure my issue is due to the spaghetti wires I ran. I’m also not to bothered as I love the sound below 10 o’clock on the gain. But it would be cool to resolve the squeal and know what caused it.


I've seen at least one build report with really spaghetti wiring and it was positive without squealing. Does anyone else's squeal without anything plugged into the input?


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## Deperduci

I'm not even getting sound but I think that's more a break in connection, I tried putting it in with a 2in ribbon when it needs a 2.5 min, this is also the board I had a trace come loose so I may have to try on the 2nd board, it's just at half the resistors in while I wait for the rest from Tayda.


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## benny_profane

Betty Wont said:


> I used regular wire but placed it tight, straight, and parallel just like ribbon cable.


Yeah, that’s what I was wondering. The post above has the wires arranged similarly.  The only difference I can think of here is a thicker gauge? I’m not sure if that would have an impact though.


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## Betty Wont

I loosened up and removed the footswitch from the box and bent the wiring back as far away from the circuit as possible. Moving the wires doesn't change the behavior at all.


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## Gordo

Mine squeals like a stuck pig if nothing is plugged in.  At any gain or volume.  Plugged in it's totally quiet even with vol and gain at max (although holy crap is it loud).  If the squealing bothers you it can be tamed with a normal amp approach and using a shorting jack to shunt to ground.


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## Gordo

Mine uses rather crappy ribbon cable that I think I might have picked up from Tayda .  Works fine but wouldn't want to move the wire too many times.  Also the tone control is just a high end roll-off and not a lot of range but takes the edge off nicely.


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## Betty Wont

Gordo said:


> Mine squeals like a stuck pig if nothing is plugged in.  At any gain or volume.  Plugged in it's totally quiet even with vol and gain at max (although holy crap is it loud).  If the squealing bothers you it can be tamed with a normal amp approach and using a shorting jack to shunt to ground.


Mine squeals the same with guitars plugged in too.


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## fig

Mine is dead silent. I haven’t built it yet, so there’s that…


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## Tpruitt

No input cable and it’s the same.  
  So if I use shielded cable for the input/output where should I solder the shield to. The ground lug?
  Next guess would be to run the switch wires like the other slo post on here.  Backside of the board and over to the side down to switch.


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## Betty Wont

Tpruitt said:


> No input cable and it’s the same.
> So if I use shielded cable for the input/output where should I solder the shield to. The ground lug?
> Next guess would be to run the switch wires like the other slo post on here.  Backside of the board and over to the side down to switch.


Moving the wires on mine didn't change the issue. I dont see this as a shielding issue. The oscillation is coming from the board.


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## Tpruitt

Tpruitt said:


> No input cable and it’s the same.
> So if I use shielded cable for the input/output where should I solder the shield to. The ground lug?
> Next guess would be to run the switch wires like the other slo post on here.  Backside of the board and over to the side down to switch.


Here is the other post
https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/black-eye-build…-omg.12847/

Are we sure it’s not the input/output jacks needing shielded cables?


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## Dan0h

I thought maybe it was the wires running close to that open inductor coil but the Porto build has it the same way and no squeal. I wonder if we all got a bad batch of the Ic? That chip is also used in signal generator builds so I can see that sound being produced in there. I will try the shielding and order a new IC from mouser. We shall track this down and solve it.


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## Paradox916

Betty Wont said:


> Moving the wires on mine didn't change the issue. I dont see this as a shielding issue. The oscillation is coming from





Betty Wont said:


> Moving the wires on mine didn't change the issue. I dont see this as a shielding issue. The oscillation is coming from the board.


Stupid question but would isolated jacks perhaps narrow down the issue? Or even just removing the jacks from the enclosure to see if there is a grounding issue?


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## Deperduci

Mine has the Mouser NE555 in it I also have some from stompbox I slated for relay boards.. I'll get back to ya. and the mouser bought was a TI, who're like right next door in the global economy. but I need to get soud 1st, which would be better just putting in new single wires or moving what I can to new board or just start over raw with the Tayda parts...


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## Dan0h

@Betty Wont yes mine nonstop squeals without input plugged in. Just tested it.


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## Dan0h

With cable plugged in and me holding the 1/4 jack on the other end no squeal at all but tons of noise. The grounding issue may be the problem?


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## Deperduci

yours definitely sounds like bad grounding Dan0h


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## Betty Wont

It does act a lot like the Hyperion 2 ground lift oscillation. 🤔


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## Dan0h

Any suggestions how to fix this? Should I run some grounds to the enclosure like in and amp? Or connect the in and out grounds together? Maybe run hounds from the power jack to the In/out grounds?


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## music6000

matt3310 said:


> Newest one


Are you having issues with your 2 Builds ????


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## music6000

Dan0h said:


> Any suggestions how to fix this? Should I run some grounds to the enclosure like in and amp? Or connect the in and out grounds together? Maybe run hounds from the power jack to the In/out grounds?


Have you tried lifting one of the grounds from the Input/ Output jack ????


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## Betty Wont

Dan0h said:


> Any suggestions how to fix this? Should I run some grounds to the enclosure like in and amp? Or connect the in and out grounds together? Maybe run hounds from the power jack to the In/out grounds?


I think we need to audio probe and see where the oscillation starts. But seriously, I'm not probing this guy.


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## Betty Wont

music6000 said:


> Have you tried lifting one of the grounds from the Input/ output jack ????


I have. No dice.


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## jubal81

Betty Wont said:


> I have. No dice.


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## jubal81

Only quick fix I can think of is try some 220pF caps from grid to anode to kill that super high end.


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## Betty Wont

jubal81 said:


> Only quick fix I can think of is try some 220pF caps from grid to anode to kill that super high end.


It's not a high squeal. It's a tunable full frequency oscillation.


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## Bricksnbeatles

Betty Wont said:


> It's not a high squeal. It's a tunable full frequency oscillation.


Hook the pot up to a string on a slider, and enjoy your new ondes martenot?


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## music6000

Betty Wont said:


> It's not a high squeal. It's a tunable full frequency oscillation.


Have you tried a Buffered pedal in front of it????


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## Dan0h

music6000 said:


> Have you tried a Buffered pedal in front of it????


Holy 💩  that solved it!


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## Dan0h

I put the Black Eye “AFTER” my General Tso as it has a BP, and Whala! No squeal full blast vol or gain. Sweet. Now I need to built a tiny Bp to stick in front of this beast because I don’t want it after my General Tso. Thank you @music6000


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## music6000

I never have oscillation issues as I always have buffered pedals amongst my true bypass pedals!
It will be a Trace within the PCB sitting too close to another Trace!
This is High Gain so it is more prone to squeal in a confined space!!!


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## Betty Wont

music6000 said:


> Have you tried a Buffered pedal in front of it????


That doesn't do anything for me. Its self oscillating.


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## music6000

Betty Wont said:


> That doesn't do anything for me. Its self oscillating.


Check your Resistor values to & make sure you you got the 4th Multiplier Band right ??????


----------



## Dan0h

music6000 said:


> I never have oscillation issues as I always have buffered pedals amongst my true bypass pedals!
> It will be a Trace within the PCB sitting too close to another Trace!
> This is High Gain so it is more prone to squeal in a confined space!!!


If the traces are too close why does the buffer correct it on my build? Just lowering the impedance is the trick?


----------



## Betty Wont

music6000 said:


> Check your Resistor values to & make sure you you got the 4th Multiplier Band right ??????


Yes, well beyond the basic troubleshooting, up to high voltage probing.


----------



## Betty Wont

Dan0h said:


> I put the Black Eye “AFTER” my General Tso as it has a BP, and Whala! No squeal full blast vol or gain. Sweet. Now I need to built a tiny Bp to stick in front of this beast because I don’t want it after my General Tso. Thank you @music6000


If this is the solution, then the pedal was designed to never be used alone without a buffered pedal before it?! That isn't logical. Or it would have the onboard circuitry to function on it's own.


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## Bricksnbeatles

Haven’t built mine yet, but I’m curious— of everyone who has built it so far, who’s had this oscillation issue? I feel like I’ve seen of 20 or so people who have mentioned building it, but only five people seem to be reporting this issue. Can we track down what variables are at play here? The 250v vs 400v cap? Tube brand? Source of 555 and/or mosfet for the power section? Wire gauge used? 

The people having the issue are no slouches when it comes to building, so building errors can safely be ruled out. I feel like there’s gotta be a common thread between either all of the builds with the issue or all of the builds without the issue.


----------



## Betty Wont

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Haven’t built mine yet, but I’m curious— of everyone who has built it so far, who’s had this oscillation issue? I feel like I’ve seen of 20 or so people who have mentioned building it, but only five people seem to be reporting this issue. Can we track down what variables are at play here? The 250v vs 400v cap? Tube brand? Source of 555 and/or mosfet for the power section? Wire gauge used?
> 
> The people having the issue are no slouches when it comes to building, so building errors can safely be ruled out. I feel like there’s gotta be a common thread between either all of the builds with the issue or all of the builds without the issue.


Or possibly a few bad pcbs. The OP and several others have successfully built this to the bom links it seems.


----------



## Dan0h

The only sub I made, outside of the linked items on the BOM was I used a wima 1500pf instead of the grey one linked. Everything else was per the BOM links including the 250v instead of 400v. I wasn’t comfortable running a ribbon touching the tube because even though it’s a 12ax7 it still gets warm so I ran the snake to the side. I will say the through holes were extremely close to each other compared to other boards so I took almost double the time soldering just to be careful not to have any bridges. One new tung sol and one old used RCA 7025 for the tubes. I went 12k on the led and the thing is still blinding me. I am running of a one spot cs6 giving it a dedicated line of 9v. Haven’t tried 12v. If it was anyone else besides Betty I’d say break out the magnifying glass and look for micro bridges, but anyone who has built 5,000 pedals knows all this.


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

Betty Wont said:


> Or possibly a few bad pcbs. The OP and several others have successfully built this to the bom links it seems.


Certainly possible, but I would expect either a full batch to be bad (and afaik the second batch only just came out, right?) or just one or two isolated instances in an otherwise good batch. A ~20% rate of this anomaly seems like it falls in a weird little valley of likelihood for PCB defects. It’s certainly possible, but just statistically speaking it seems less likely than another unidentified unifying thread. Occams Razor, and all…


----------



## Robert

Dan0h said:


> If the traces are too close why does the buffer correct it on my build? Just lowering the impedance is the trick?



If a high impedance trace (or component) is in close proximity to another trace or component carrying a hot signal that signal can be induced into the other trace, causing a feedback loop.      This is a form of parasitic oscillation.

Placing a buffer in front of the pedal forces the input trace (up to the first active stage) to follow the output of the buffer, any potential induced signal is swamped out by the buffer so no feedback can occur.

One way you can determine if a buffer might help is to turn the guitar volume all the way down while the circuit is oscillating.  If the oscillation stops (or changes considerably) a buffer _might _help.   This is not the same as unplugging your guitar, that is the opposite extreme and encourages oscillation.

It's also possible for this sort of oscillation to occur further into the circuit, in this case an input buffer won't help.


----------



## Deperduci

It's confusing Bricks, because I can't even get to the squeal or no squeal and the 1 major snafu I had, the designer, Vigilante, show me how to correct it! I'll try the 6 new pieces of wire instead of a ribbon. Might also be 1 of the components was a funky batch, I did mention in other threads Tayda is more a warehouse that gets stuff from all over, like Mouser and Digi-Key do. Where did your 2n3904's come from those who have squeal? that transistor is what I see most frequent in DIY signal generators..


----------



## Robert

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Certainly possible, but I would expect either a full batch to be bad



Not necessarily... Welcome to my world.

There are many variables at play.   I couldn't tell you how many people have built the Tyrian Distortion...   but _every now and then_ someone will come along claiming the circuit oscillates.    I can't reproduce it, and I've tried.   I've built several, not once have I had one that oscillates... not _once_.

There was a TL074 version, then a completely new layout reworked for TL072's... I've never had a single one oscillate even a peep regardless of how sloppy I wire it up.  I've twisted the input / output wires together, run extra long wires to the pots, left it unboxed, etc.... nothing.


----------



## Robert

I hate a PCB that oscillates more than _anything_ else because it can be an absolute _nightmare_ to correct.   Sometimes the fix is obvious, other times not so much.  

There is a particular version of the Fulltone Plimsoul that I have yet to build that does not oscillate.   I've done everything imaginable, down to a ridiculous sized spread out PCB layout that wouldn't fit in a 1590DD, I've even populated my layout with the components from the original PCB....    I've built it from multiple layouts of my own, an etched layout of someone else's, another vendor took a stab at it a few years ago, and two different vero layouts... No go.   I can build any other version no problem, and I can _modify_ it to stop oscillating.... but that doesn't help me sleep.   

I want to know why I can't build _that _version without oscillation.     It is the one circuit that has haunted me for years.


----------



## jubal81

What about the brand, part number and source for the 555 and filter caps?
It's long in the past, but I remember a thread at DIYstomp that included someone with an issue and it turned out some variant of 555 didn't play nice in an SMPS at audio frequencies.


----------



## music6000

Dan0h said:


> If the traces are too close why does the buffer correct it on my build? Just lowering the impedance is the trick?


Yep!!!


jubal81 said:


> What about the brand, part number and source for the 555 and filter caps?
> It's long in the past, but I remember a thread at DIYstomp that included someone with an issue and it turned out some variant of 555 didn't play nice in an SMPS at audio frequencies.


The one's I purchase locally are Texas Instruments NE555P.
What is Tayda supplying????


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

Robert said:


> Not necessarily... Welcome to my world.
> 
> There are many variables at play.   I couldn't tell you how many people have built the Tyrian Distortion...   but _every now and then_ someone will come along claiming the circuit oscillates.    I can't reproduce it, and I've tried.   I've built several, not once have I had one that oscillates... not _once_.
> 
> There was a TL074 version, then a completely new layout reworked for TL072's... I've never had a single one oscillate even a peep regardless of how sloppy I wire it up.  I've twisted the input / output wires together, run extra long wires to the pots, left it unboxed, etc.... nothing.


Ever get your hands on one of the ones that reportedly oscillates to see if it oscillates in your environment— same electrical grid; power supply; enviroment; lighting; rig as one of your many functioning builds of it? If one that oscillates for someone else doesn’t oscillate when you get your hands on it, would one that you build that doesn’t oscillate start oscillating when they have it in their playing environments?

If the oscillations with the Tyrian are uncommon but still happen notably often enough, wouldn’t that still not rule out the potential for it to be one of the other variables? If it’s an issue with say, 20% of all reported builds, then if it was a PCB manufacturing error, you could reasonably expect ~20% of your own builds of it to exhibit the same issues. If you’ve tried many times but never encountered the issue, then wouldn’t it stand to reason that, while PCBs errors are still a potential culprit, the most likely cause is a variable introduced outside of your workshop (such as power, component maker or batch, wire, environmental factors, etc.) that you do not have. Surely board defects could be cause for issues like this, but being deductive, it seems improbable that a PCB issue would be both widespread enough for it to be considered a noted issue (like you said, not just a one or two time thing, but also not a full batch) while also being unable to be replicated.


----------



## matt3310

music6000 said:


> Are you having issues with your 2 Builds ????


I've built 4 now. No issues at all.


----------



## music6000

matt3310 said:


> I've built 4 now. No issues at all.


Cool, what was Tayda supplied & what was sourced elsewhere????
Are you using a buffered pedal in front of your Builds????
This needs to be sorted as the topic could get out of hand & we like harmony!!!


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

music6000 said:


> Yep!!!
> 
> The one's I purchase locally are Texas Instruments NE555P.
> What is Tayda supplying????


My Tayda 555s are TI iirc (didn’t build this pedal yet, just to be clear tho), but they do list their 555s manufacturer on their site as “various”, meaning each of us could order 555s and be getting a different manufacturer/batch depending on which they have on hand at the moment (or they potentially even have different manufacturers on hand at the same time, and it comes down to which selection is nearer in the warehouse for whoever is packing your order at the time). I’ll be building mine soon, and my 555s were Tayda-sourced in May of this year. I’ll report back after I build it, but it’s probably worthwhile, if people who have built it are noting where they sourced components from, to mention when they sourced certain components if they were ordered from Tayda. Many of us have stashes of some of the components for this project already, and a 555 from Tayda from March May is quite likely a different batch, and may be a complete different manufacturer compared to a 555 from Tayda from this month or a 555 from Tayda from last November.


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

music6000 said:


> Cool, what was Tayda supplied & what was sourced elsewhere????
> This needs to be sorted as the topic could get out of hand & we like harmony!!!


Agreed. Perhaps it would be a good idea to have a thread specifically for noting if one’s build has oscillation or not, as well as noting which PCB batch it came from, and the sources, manufacturer, and relative timeframe of purchase for the different components, so the data can be compiled into a spreadsheet and searched for trends.


----------



## music6000

Bricksnbeatles said:


> My Tayda 555s are TI iirc (didn’t build this pedal yet, just to be clear tho), but they do list their 555s manufacturer on their site as “various”, meaning each of us could order 555s and be getting a different manufacturer/batch depending on which they have on hand at the moment (or they potentially even have different manufacturers on hand at the same time, and it comes down to which selection is nearer in the warehouse for whoever is packing your order at the time). I’ll be building mine soon, and my 555s were Tayda-sourced in May of this year. I’ll report back after I build it, but it’s probably worthwhile, if people who have built it are noting where they sourced components from, to mention when they sourced certain components if they were ordered from Tayda. Many of us have stashes of some of the components for this project already, and a 555 from Tayda from March May is quite likely a different batch, and may be a complete different manufacturer compared to a 555 from Tayda from this month or a 555 from Tayda from last November.


These are Fakes :



Real Texas Instruments NE555P:


----------



## Deperduci

Think I've been saying that, my Mouser and stompbox supplies are TI's, and not knocking Tayda, they got a shipment that was cheapish, it could be on the maker for not giving 2 rats in QA. ANd IF it does come down to those IC's.. instead of this build, use them in like the relay pcb's that Rob has? If my order from Tayda has non-TI's, I won't be upset, I'll just put them out of the audio path. The 1 not on pink is from Mouser and doubtful it's a fake.


----------



## Dan0h

I can confirm, now with normal amp volume (kid is awake), that relocating the Black Eye from front of the chain, (where I always test new builds mostly due to all the fuzzes) to almost the back of the chain, and after a buffered pedal there is now zero squeal zero feedback and the noise is gone all except when gain is maxed then I get the classic high gain noise in the background. This thing is amazing and nothing else I have built or bought comes close to this sound. I can see why @vigilante398 has two on his board, the low gain setting and high gain setting are both phenomenal.  I hope the other issues are found with other squealers. This one has made its way onto my board permanently! 

Ok Someone make a delay pedal with a tube section!


----------



## Robert

Stick one of the mini buffers on the input and you can put it anywhere in the chain you want.


----------



## music6000

Robert said:


> Stick one of the mini buffers on the input and you can put it anywhere in the chain you want.



Still waiting for [B]matt3310[/B] to respond & confirm he is not using a Buffer in front of his Builds!

Compare size Simple Biffer SMD to 3PDT Beakout Board: 








						Simple JFET Buffer (SMD) - PedalPCB.com
					

JFET Buffer




					www.pedalpcb.com


----------



## Dan0h

Robert said:


> Stick one of the mini buffers on the input and you can put it anywhere in the chain you want.


For some reason I kept thinking this had to go in the front of my chain (mind in fuzz land) but it sits nicely next to my rat which is towards the end and after a buffered pedal so I’m all good now. Just fighting the urge to order another one. Lol.


----------



## Betty Wont

I don't have a "chain" or the ability to make one. I can only use one pedal at a time.


----------



## vigilante398

Due to the number of reports of squeals, I'm going to try building up another board or two to see if I can replicate the issue. I wasn't planning to revise the board yet as I still have a fair number on hand, but if it would solve problems people are finding then I'm open to trying it.


----------



## ADAOCE

Robert said:


> Not necessarily... Welcome to my world.
> 
> There are many variables at play.   I couldn't tell you how many people have built the Tyrian Distortion...   but _every now and then_ someone will come along claiming the circuit oscillates.    I can't reproduce it, and I've tried.   I've built several, not once have I had one that oscillates... not _once_.
> 
> There was a TL074 version, then a completely new layout reworked for TL072's... I've never had a single one oscillate even a peep regardless of how sloppy I wire it up.  I've twisted the input / output wires together, run extra long wires to the pots, left it unboxed, etc.... nothing.


Love my Tyrian


----------



## MattG

Would including a basic RF filter right before the first active stage (I.e. v1a’s grid) possibly help with oscillation? Some pF cap to ground might be all it takes? Maybe every triode grid could get a cap to ground?

Just throwing out ideas, not sure if they are practical! I’ve seen a few pedals that have input RF filters. Many years ago, I built the Neurochrome Modulus86 power amp (hifi, not guitar), it also has an input RF filter. That amp is particularly interesting, because it’s a composite amp, which is a simple concept, but in practice requires a lot of real engineering to work as intended across all the corner cases.  (Here I’m just parroting what I’ve read, I don’t have real knowledge about composite topologies!)


----------



## Tpruitt

I threw a boss sd1 before mine and that pretty much fixed my squealing. 
Still a little with both gain and volume maxed.  After playing it in front of my jcm800 gain at 9 o’clock and volume at around 1 o’clock sounds awesome. 

  Hope that helps someone out there.


----------



## music6000

music6000 said:


> Cool, what was Tayda supplied & what was sourced elsewhere????
> Are you using a buffered pedal in front of your Builds????
> This needs to be sorted as the topic could get out of hand & we like harmony!!!


Well, I reached out to a Member who has built 4 or more with no issues but has gone MIA since!??????????
I will let you draw your own thoughts on that!


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

music6000 said:


> Well, I reached out to a Member who has built 4 or more with no issues but has gone MIA since!??????????
> I will let you draw your own thoughts on that!


my thoughts on it are that not everyone here spends very much time on this site. Doesn't seem like a big conspiracy that warrants ten question marks or claims of people going "MIA" after a single day. 😉

They joined a year and a half ago and have only posted 85 times. giving leeway and taking into account the fact that they sometimes post more than once in the same day, that's an average of once per 8 days. to give a safe wiggle room, I wouldn't say they're MIA until its around double that–– sound the alarms if we still haven't heard anything by the 23rd.


----------



## music6000

Bricksnbeatles said:


> my thoughts on it are that not everyone here spends very much time on this site. Doesn't seem like a big conspiracy that warrants ten question marks or claims of people going "MIA" after a single day. 😉
> 
> They joined a year and a half ago and have only posted 85 times. giving leeway and taking into account the fact that they sometimes post more than once in the same day, that's an average of once per 8 days. to give a safe wiggle room, I wouldn't say they're MIA until its around double that–– sound the alarms if we still haven't heard anything by the 23rd.


I see it from a different view, Built 4 with no issues is great but the discussion was about multiple builds with issues.
If I made that statement I would have continued with '' All my parts were from Tayda, Mouser or whatever''
My 2 cents!!!


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

music6000 said:


> I see it from a different view, Built 4 with no issues is great but the discussion was about multiple builds with issues.
> If I made that statement I would have continued with '' All my parts were from Tayda, Mouser or whatever''
> My 2 cents!!!


I get what you’re saying, and I think there’s a bit of a disconnect between what I’ve said and how it was interpreted— I’m just saying that he’s not a super active member on the forum, and he probably just hasn’t come back around to this thread to answer anything. To you it might seem obvious to give more details about where you sourced parts for a build with problems. For him, he may have seen that people were trying to figure out problems with the builds and thought that confirming that his builds work would confirm “hey, it’s possible to get these to work” and went along with his day. Not everyone is going to read through every post in a thread before they comment, and not everyone is going to know every bit of information they should include. Chances are we’ll eventually hear from him about his builds, but in the meantime, there’s no reason to assume there’s anything wrong with the fact that we haven’t.


----------



## music6000

Here's a Question?
What Brand of 10uF 250V Electrolytic cap did you receive from Tayda for the Black Eye????
Mine was ChongX - Green with a Gold stripe!!!
It measure's 9.00 uF.


----------



## Deperduci

for something usually with a tolerance of 20% to only be off by 10% isn't that bad. I still need the 4,    .022 630v caps to test if it's the NE555's or something else, I have 5 from Stompbox, 1~2 from Mouser and 2 from Tayda, all TI insignia and most same numbers after the NE555P(SB and tayda's so doubt they're fakes and Mouser looks to be a different run). I have used other sourced 2n3904's. My 1st build made no sound at all but worked in bypass, and I believe I had a thread that changed to what spots to jumper after I toasted a trace or 2 and needed to know when I could get the new 1.

I'm looking to Vigilante398's progress with a board to see if it can be repeated or just gremlins.


----------



## music6000

Deperduci said:


> for something usually with a tolerance of 20% to only be off by 10% isn't that bad. I still need the 4,    .022 630v caps to test if it's the NE555's or something else, I have 5 from Stompbox, 1~2 from Mouser and 2 from Tayda, all TI insignia and most same numbers after the NE555P(SB and tayda's so doubt they're fakes and Mouser looks to be a different run). I have used other sourced 2n3904's. My 1st build made no sound at all but worked in bypass, and I believe I had a thread that changed to what spots to jumper after I toasted a trace or 2 and needed to know when I could get the new 1.
> 
> I'm looking to Vigilante398's progress with a board to see if it can be repeated or just gremlins.


I know that they also send Samxon 10uF 250V - Black with a Grey Stripe.


----------



## music6000

When I receive my Black Eye PCB & finish the Build, if there is a problem with Squeal & Oscillation directly to the Amp, I will insert the Simple Jfet Buffer I built today. I'm a bit rusty as it's been awhile since I have built my eyelet Board pedals but it turned out OK!
The only thing I'm not sure of yet is I'm using a 10uf 25v Tantalum capacitor which may not work at the Input.
I may have to change to 10uf MLCC, which is not available in Australia!!! :
It measures 37mm X 23mm with 2mm FR4 Board :


----------



## tcpoint

Mine will be live, today or tomorrow.  Been taking my time and being extra careful.


----------



## vigilante398

tcpoint said:


> Mine will be live, today or tomorrow.  Been taking my time and being extra careful.


Looking forward to it! I typically rush through things, so I often end up building things twice instead of building them carefully.


----------



## music6000

music6000 said:


> I see it from a different view, Built 4 with no issues is great but the discussion was about multiple builds with issues.
> If I made that statement I would have continued with '' All my parts were from Tayda, Mouser or whatever''
> My 2 cents!!!





matt3310 said:


> I've built 4 now. No issues at all.


He confirmed the following to me, THANKS Matt!
All of his parts were from Tayda except Tube Sockets & jj ECC83S Tubes.
He didn't confirm if he had a buffered pedal in front ?? :
Maybe splitting the wires into 2 pairs of 3 is an alternative????


----------



## tcpoint

Mine was whining.  I used a pretty crappy power supply.  One of those 12 volt ones from LoveMySwitches.  I think I only have 200ma 12volt off good power on my 1Spot CS-7.  I love the pedal except for the whining.  The more gain the more whining.  I'm going to try a really good power supply, first.  Then, I'm going to try a buffer in front of it.  Then, I'm going to try shielded cable for the input and output.  I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## music6000

tcpoint said:


> Mine was whining.  I used a pretty crappy power supply.  One of those 12 volt ones from LoveMySwitches.  I think I only have 200ma 12volt off good power on my 1Spot CS-7.  I love the pedal except for the whining.  The more gain the more whining.  I'm going to try a really good power supply, first.  Then, I'm going to try a buffer in front of it.  Then, I'm going to try shielded cable for the input and output.  I'll let you know how it goes.


Was it Unregulated or Switchmode type ( Multi Wall Voltages) ?


----------



## tcpoint

I tried a couple other PS incl my 1Spot (9v) and got the same result.  I just remembered that I made a 12V linear power supply several years, ago.  I will give that a try.  Then I will put a buffer in front.  I will also make sure that all the parts are the correct parts.  Then I'm going to get the DMM and the scope out.  That is the sound I've chasing for a long time (except for the whine).  I'm determined to get it working.  It's a fairly simple circuit so I should be able to figure it out.  Unfortunately, I've got a bunch of work, today.  I work at home so I should at least get to try the 12 volt linear PS.


----------



## Betty Wont

tcpoint said:


> I tried a couple other PS incl my 1Spot (9v) and got the same result.  I just remembered that I made a 12V linear power supply several years, ago.  I will give that a try.  Then I will put a buffer in front.  I will also make sure that all the parts are the correct parts.  Then I'm going to get the DMM and the scope out.  That is the sound I've chasing for a long time (except for the whine).  I'm determined to get it working.  It's a fairly simple circuit so I should be able to figure it out.  Unfortunately, I've got a bunch of work, today.  I work at home so I should at least get to try the 12 volt linear PS.


Let us know if you figure it out. I have 2 builds of this now and the same issue.


----------



## ICTRock

music6000 said:


> He confirmed the following to me, THANKS Matt!
> All of his parts were from Tayda except Tube Sockets & jj ECC83S Tubes.
> He didn't confirm if he had a buffered pedal in front ?? :
> Maybe splitting the wires into 2 pairs of 3 is an alternative????
> 
> View attachment 30658


finally a gut shot of one whining ... let me familiarize myself with the build docs and I'll give you some feedback from my amp building experiences

first bit of troubleshooting, remove V1 and report back whether you're still getting whining. this effectively halves troubleshooting for me.


----------



## tcpoint

I tried the 12 volt linear regulator.  Just a hair bit better.  I put a Mach 1 (lightspeed) with the gain down and the volume around unity and the whine went away.  I'm going to wire directly from the input and output jacks to the stomp.  If that doesn't solve it, I'm going to go to shielded cable.  I'd like to skip the first step but I want to help solve it for everyone else.  BTW, I want to play it today instead of work.


----------



## music6000

ICTRock said:


> finally a gut shot of one whining ... let me familiarize myself with the build docs and I'll give you some feedback from my amp building experiences


This pedal actually works without an issue but the builder didn't confirm if he had a Buffer in front.
The other Builds here with issues still have an issue with a Buffer in front.


----------



## tcpoint

I was a little concerned with the input wiring next to the smps.  Maybe some kind of resonant frequency gets created.


----------



## music6000

tcpoint said:


> I tried the 12 volt linear regulator.  Just a hair bit better.  I put a Mach 1 (lightspeed) with the gain down and the volume around unity and the whine went away.  I'm going to wire directly from the input and output jacks to the stomp.  If that doesn't solve it, I'm going to go to shielded cable.  I'd like to skip the first step but I want to help solve it for everyone else.  BTW, I want to play it today instead of work.


Have you tried it with a Boss or Buffered pedal in front of it


----------



## tcpoint

I have couple buffers around here.  I, also, have several Boss and Cornish clones around here.  I want to make sure that there's no charge pump.  I'll try that next.


----------



## music6000

Do you guys have any Ferrite  or Ferrite Bead Axial Leaded like this
You could try on the power wire!
Spaceman Effects use them on there Builds:


----------



## ICTRock

second bit of troubleshooting, move that ribbon cable away from the output jack. the tube gets hot, but not melt plastic hot.

third bit, 100K is not enough grid leak resistor. change R21 to 1M


----------



## tcpoint

I have some Ferrite Beads, somewhere.  I have both the axial and smd.


----------



## music6000

tcpoint said:


> I have some Ferrite Beads, somewhere.  I have both the axial and smd.


Spaceman Effects use them on the Power & Input pads!


----------



## ICTRock

a part of the problem here is that the input impedance of the pedal is under 100K


----------



## music6000

ICTRock said:


> a part of the problem here is that the input impedance of the pedal is under 100K


That's why you  should Polish it, I mean Buff it!


----------



## ICTRock

music6000 said:


> That's why you  should Polish it, I mean Buff it!


or you replace the one resistor as indicated above ...


----------



## music6000

ICTRock said:


> or you replace the one resistor as indicated above ...


Yes, it's Standard practice for 90% of the circuits to have 1M to Ground on the Input!!!
On the Output is a totally different Ball Game I've found!!!!


----------



## ICTRock

music6000 said:


> Yes, it's Standard practice for 90% of the circuits to have 1M to Ground on the Input!!!


again, this is coming from amp building and the purpose of that resistor in a tube triode stage ... you can't look at a valve project the same as a tube screamer or rat ... hence why you guys have problems you figure a buffer is the fix for.


----------



## music6000

ICTRock said:


> again, this is coming from amp building and the purpose of that resistor in a tube triode stage ... you can't look at a valve project the same as a tube screamer or rat ... hence why you guys have problems you figure a buffer is the fix for.


Well, one way to find out is for the Builders here with an Issue to change it out & hopefully it is a success!
My PCB has just landed on the other side of Australia so another week before I get to build it!
Thanks for your Input.

Cheers music6000


----------



## ICTRock

music6000 said:


> Well, one way to find out is for the Builders here with an Issue to change it out & hopefully it is a success!
> My PCB has just landed on the other side of Australia so another week before I get to build it!
> Thanks for your Input.
> 
> Cheers music6000


pages 11 - 13  from the Bible ... http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/Common_Gain_Stage.pdf


----------



## tcpoint

I just looked at the schematics of the SLO-100 and it has a 1M resistor.  The schematics from freestompboxes have a 100K resistor.  Seems like a no-brainer to go with a 1M.


----------



## ICTRock

I'm not here to say that the schematic is necessarily incorrect to the pedal ... just that there was a single schematic from back in 2011 with no gut shots etc etc and traditional amp design disagrees with this particular part value


----------



## music6000

tcpoint said:


> I just looked at the schematics of the SLO-100 and it has a 1M resistor.  The schematics from freestompboxes have a 100K resistor.  Seems like a no-brainer to go with a 1M.


Well, Get the soldering iron & 1M resistor & get it done, It's 12.48 am in Western Australia & I need some Shut Eye.
I'm making a cup of Tea & buy the time I drink it, I hope to read a Report!!!


----------



## vigilante398

Try out the 1M grid leak and let me know how it goes. The 100k carried over from the original Soldano GTO (not SLO) schematic, I obviously have no issue with it being a 1M.


----------



## music6000

music6000 said:


> Well, Get the soldering iron & 1M resistor & get it done, It's 12.48 am in Western Australia & I need some Shut Eye.
> I'm making a cup of Tea & buy the time I drink it, I hope to read a Report!!!


Hey *tcpoint* , are you using 110v where you are?
With 240v, we get soldering  done twice as quick!!!!


----------



## music6000

music6000 said:


> Well, Get the soldering iron & 1M resistor & get it done, It's 12.48 am in Western Australia & I need some Shut Eye.
> I'm making a cup of Tea & buy the time I drink it, I hope to read a Report!!!


That's It!
2.00 am, Goodnight!!!


----------



## ICTRock

https://robrobinette.com/How_the_Saldano_SLO-100_Works.htm in case you want some light reading ...


----------



## Dan0h

So should I swap out the 100k’s for 1m’s given that having a buffer in front eliminated the issue? @Betty Wont let me know if this solves on yours.


----------



## vigilante398

Dan0h said:


> So should I swap out the 100k’s for 1m’s given that having a buffer in front eliminated the issue? @Betty Wont let me know if this solves on yours.


Yup, if a buffer fixes it that means you're having an impedance mismatch. Buffers typically have a nice high input impedance and a nice low output impedance. Ideally you want a low output impedance from the first circuit going into a much higher input impedance of the second circuit. If the input impedance of the second circuit is too low and/or the output impedance of the first stage is too high, you have a bad mismatch and an unstable circuit.

So give the 1M a shot, could do the trick.


----------



## tcpoint

I just swapped out the resistor.  No worky.  I'm going to reroute the wiring from the input and output jacks to the stomp.  I will probably have to wait until this evening.  I'm going to stick with the 1M resistor.

One more note,  The squealing goes away when I turn the volume down on my guitar.


----------



## Betty Wont

tcpoint said:


> I just swapped out the resistor.  No worky.  I'm going to reroute the wiring from the input and output jacks to the stomp.  I will probably have to wait until this evening.  I'm going to stick with the 1M resistor.
> 
> One more note,  The squealing goes away when I turn the volume down on my guitar.


On my builds, the location and shielded nature of any of the wires didn't have an impact on the oscillation at all.


----------



## Robert

I'm no (tube) expert, but I can't wrap my head around how increasing the input impedance would help prevent oscillation. 

This seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.... but I'll refer you back to the first phrase of this post.    😂


----------



## ICTRock

I don't have a clear picture on what the other wires in those ribbons carry or the function of that secondary pcb outside of switching. I can review any documentation regarding that and see if there's some room for improvement re: lead dress


----------



## ICTRock

Robert said:


> I'm no (tube) expert, but I can't wrap my head around how increasing the input impedance would help prevent oscillation.
> 
> This seems like a step in the wrong direction to me.... but I'll refer you back to the first phrase of this post.    😂


because that resistor doesn't just set impedance, it also plays a role in biasing. I also haven't received feedback re: removing the first tube from the circuit so I can isolate where in the circuit oscillation is originating from.


----------



## Robert

Rolling down the guitar volume stopped it for @tcpoint, that's a good clue.   The input stage is involved.


----------



## ICTRock

well overall, the amp has four friggen gain stages and does attenuate a fuck-ton of signal between each stage. I imagine grounding, trace density, and lead dress are all problematic


----------



## ICTRock

and not to kick a project when it is down but I wouldn't build an amp out of tayda parts.
also, I don't have Volt/Amp measurements to work with so I have to wonder aloud if 1/4watt resistors are up to the task.


----------



## Betty Wont

ICTRock said:


> I don't have a clear picture on what the other wires in those ribbons carry or the function of that secondary pcb outside of switching. I can review any documentation regarding that and see if there's some room for improvement re: lead dress


They are standard pedal connections. input, pcb input, ground, 9v, pcb out, and output. Removing the whole apparatus did nothing to change my builds' issues. And the Tayda bashing isn't warranted. They are a quality company and I've never had a problem with a single part of theirs over thousands of builds.


----------



## ICTRock

ok ... did you shorten that up to going from the input/out jacks to the switch only with shielded then shielded to/from the board to the switch? 

even some stuff like the fender blues junior pick up noise from long input traces on the PCB and shortening that to a shielded wire from the input jack to the 68K grid stopper helped tremendously. 

I'm also fairly curious about the grounding scheme because I've had some amps where I needed to section off ground points from each other rather than star ground ... same thing for having to use sleeved input jacks that don't physically ground to the chassis. without one on-hand I'm having to plumb the depths of all the various crap I've had to sort over the years.


----------



## Robert

Any connection between the type of pickups being used between the builds that do vs do not oscillate?

This would be the one variable between two builds with identical component selection.  (excluding tolerance)


----------



## Paradox916

ICTRock said:


> https://robrobinette.com/How_the_Saldano_SLO-100_Works.htm in case you want some light reading ...


Well ain’t that a daisy?  Who would have thought….🤣


----------



## tcpoint

I rerouted the input and output leads and it didn't help at all.  I guess I could go with shielded cable.  I'm busy with other things the rest of the night.  I guess I could measure some voltages, tomorrow.  I have to turn the gain up higher to get the squeals when using single coils compared to humbuckers.


----------



## ICTRock

Paradox916 said:


> View attachment 30784
> 
> Well ain’t that a daisy?  Who would have thought….🤣


every amp designer since the RCA tube manuals ... and I'd probably want larger than 1/4w metal films in the attenuating resistors between gain stages, they're dissipating significant percentages of the signal


----------



## vigilante398

ICTRock said:


> I'd probably want larger than 1/4w metal films in the attenuating resistors between gain stages, they're dissipating significant percentages of the signal


Line-level signals don't carry any sort of power worth noting for dissipation, which is why we can get away with using 0.06W rated potentiometers like these 16mm Alpha pots. Even in the plate load resistors we're nowhere near 1/4W of dissipation, which is why I can get away with using 1/8W and 1/10W resistors when I build this circuit in SMD. I promise the resistors are properly rated for this application.


----------



## Gordo

I’ve used mine with SD humbuckers, tele single coils, a Music Man with their active hum cancel/buffer and my bench guitar that has GFS active pickups (which sound really good btw) with no issues.  Mostly Tayda parts.


----------



## Betty Wont

Robert said:


> Any connection between the type of pickups being used between the builds that do vs do not oscillate?
> 
> This would be the one variable between two builds with identical component selection.  (excluding tolerance)


Not for me. Any guitar, any pickup, or no guitar at all. Same behavior.


----------



## music6000

Betty Wont said:


> Not for me. Any guitar, any pickup, or no guitar at all. Same behavior.


Have you stated what type of Power Supply's you are using or tried?
Were you under the influence when you built it!


----------



## szukalski

We are all under the influence of something..


----------



## Robert

Yeah but @music6000 is in Australia, I'm pretty sure it's next Thursday for him... time zones...


----------



## chongmagic

Seems like this thread is getting a little heated, and I don't mean the tubes.


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

Robert said:


> Yeah but @music6000 is in Australia, I'm pretty sure it's next Thursday for him... time zones...


But if it’s summer I’m the NH, then it’s winter in the SH. That, compounded with the time zone BS means that in Australia it’s currently like midnight on a random Thursday in January of 2023, right? Right?


----------



## ICTRock

I'm tapping out. I have identified one design flaw and that should be enough. He should know how to support his own products.
Maybe this will help one of you http://www.geofex.com/ampdbug/ampdebug.htm


----------



## music6000

thewintersoldier said:


> Yeah, I just skimmed thru the thread for the first time today. I hope everyone gets it sorted out on both ends. It's a real investment to buy two new tubes and the kit. I got no skin in the game but I'm rooting for everyone.


The going rate in Australia is $40.00 to $60.00 Au for a single JJ ECC83S!


----------



## Gordo

WHAT!!!!???


----------



## music6000

chongmagic said:


> Seems like this thread is getting a little heated, and I don't mean the tubes.


Not for me, but there is a lack of Pictures to support if the Issue is Component related or not!


----------



## benny_profane

I think he means that you’ve been continually harassing posters by demanding information and pictures from them. It’s not a good look.


----------



## Robert

vigilante398 said:


> I promise the resistors are properly rated for this application.



I think pretty much every tube pedal I've opened up and/or traced used 1/4W resistors throughout.


----------



## DAJE

Gordo said:


> WHAT!!!!???


AU$1 is currently worth US~70c. 
AU$40 = US$28-ish. 
AU$60 = US$42-ish. 

Still a lot, but not as much as it sounds.


----------



## vigilante398

Yeah if shipping is included in that price it's not atrocious, but still a little higher than in the states.





Also I'm almost finished with another build using one of these boards, I'll post pics of it tonight and let everyone know how it went. Maybe I'll even go crazy and do a demo video.


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

benny_profane said:


> I think he means that you’ve been continually harassing posters by demanding information and pictures from them. It’s not a good look.


Yeah, I mean there’s also the *cough* _rocksalt_ *cough* if you catch my drift.


----------



## music6000

benny_profane said:


> I think he means that you’ve been continually harassing posters by demanding information and pictures from them. It’s not a good look.


There are Members here complaining that their Pedal is no Good but fail to back it up with Pictures.
Just indirectly point the finger at the Supplier/ Designer when things go South, what a joke!
This isn't even the Troubleshooting section!


----------



## Harry Klippton

Sure does seem weird when someone who's built literally 5000 pedals is having an issue though 🤔


----------



## Tpruitt

I posted pics of mine.  And I’m not blaming anyone.  As far as I know it’s user error. Lol


----------



## music6000

Harry Klippton said:


> Sure does seem weird when someone who's built literally 5000 pedals is having an issue though 🤔


The problem here is playing with Tubes & 200v is out of most Members comfort zone!


----------



## ICTRock

music6000 said:


> The problem here is playing with Tubes & 200v is out of most Members comfort zone!


240V ... that number becomes important when you know what the maximum voltage rating is for royal ohm 1/4 watt metal film resistors from tayda and can calculate power dissipation of plate resistors knowing that when you design something you aim for a rating half of dissipation ...


----------



## chongmagic

music6000 said:


> There are Members here complaining that their Pedal is no Good but fail to back it up with Pictures.
> Just indirectly point the finger at the Supplier/ Designer when things go South, what a joke!
> This isn't even the Troubleshooting section!


My post was not to point the finger at anyone or anything, I am sorry if it came across that way. It was not my intention whatsoever. 

I build pedals for fun, it keeps me from going insane sometimes after a shitty day at work. I think we all come together here as we have a passion for the hobby and just enjoy the banter with like-minded folk. I believe we all enjoy the tinkering and experimentation that comes with it as well.

I think we all know that Tayda is not always top-shelf in terms of components but I have never had an issue that I can recall. If I were to build a production pedal I would most likely stick with Mouser or more expensive. But regardless, I myself am not building production pedals and Tayda gives us the ability to get components that work at a good price and at least for me in the US at fairly quick shipping speeds. 

I think as usual we will all come together and figure this out, we always do! And that is what makes this forum one of the best I have ever had the chance to be a part of. 

Maybe this should be restarted in a troubleshooting forum, so we can pinpoint what is causing the issue. 

Just my thoughts...


----------



## vigilante398

ICTRock said:


> 240V ... that number becomes important when you know what the maximum voltage rating is for royal ohm 1/4 watt metal film resistors from tayda and can calculate power dissipation of plate resistors knowing that when you design something you aim for a rating half of dissipation ...


I used the MF0W4 from Tayda, max operating voltage is 250V. Plate load resistors aren't going from B+ to ground, they're going from B+ to the plate, so you're not dropping the whole 240V across that resistor. This is why I don't need 250V+ plate bypass caps. The highest voltage I'm reading across any resistor at any point in this circuit is 140V. It's closer to 60% of operating voltage rating so it's above the 50% you would shoot for in high-reliability products, but for a guitar pedal project where the goal is to use easily procured and affordable components I don't have any problem with that.

I'm not an expert and I don't claim to be, but I do my homework.


----------



## music6000

chongmagic said:


> My post was not to point the finger at anyone or anything, I am sorry if it came across that way. It was not my intention whatsoever.
> 
> I build pedals for fun, it keeps me from going insane sometimes after a shitty day at work. I think we all come together here as we have a passion for the hobby and just enjoy the banter with like-minded folk. I believe we all enjoy the tinkering and experimentation that comes with it as well.
> 
> I think we all know that Tayda is not always top-shelf in terms of components but I have never had an issue that I can recall. If I were to build a production pedal I would most likely stick with Mouser or more expensive. But regardless, I myself am not building production pedals and Tayda gives us the ability to get components that work at a good price and at least for me in the US at fairly quick shipping speeds.
> 
> I think as usual we will all come together and figure this out, we always do! And that is what makes this forum one of the best I have ever had the chance to be a part of.
> 
> Maybe this should be restarted in a troubleshooting forum, so we can pinpoint what is causing the issue.
> 
> Just my thoughts...


I have had some great discussions with you over the years & I wasn't offended in anyway!

Cheers music6000


----------



## benny_profane

music6000 said:


> There are Members here complaining that their Pedal is no Good but fail to back it up with Pictures.
> Just indirectly point the finger at the Supplier/ Designer when things go South, what a joke!
> This isn't even the Troubleshooting section!


I think the issue is how you’re approaching the issue. There was one poster that wasn’t at your beck and call both in the thread and through DMs. You suggested that they were negligent by not posting everything you demanded. That was rude and unnecessary.

Also, the implicit ad hominem attack on another member who has been extremely responsive in this thread and a very active and helpful member of the community was uncalled for.

I think there may be an issue with your avant garde punctuation. When I see a ton of question marks and exclamation points, that suggests immediacy—that a request is a demand. That may not be the case, but when the same thing is repeated over and over, it seems impatient.

You’re very attentive and helpful with troubleshooting. However, this is an atypical situation since it’s quite different than other pedal projects (i.e., high voltage). This is also @vigilante398’s project. I think they should be taking the lead in diagnosing potential issues. It’s quite dangerous and irresponsible to push folks to start poking around in a circuit they might not be comfortable working on.

Right now, there are some anecdotal accounts of issues that are not present in all builds. @vigilante398 has said they are working to reproduce the issue and will report back.


----------



## music6000

benny_profane said:


> I think the issue is how you’re approaching the issue. There was one poster that wasn’t at your beck and call both in the thread and through DMs. You suggested that they were negligent by not posting everything you demanded. That was rude and unnecessary.
> 
> Also, the implicit ad hominem attack on another member who has been extremely responsive in this thread and a very active and helpful member of the community was uncalled for.
> 
> I think there may be an issue with your avant garde punctuation. When I see a ton of question marks and exclamation points, that suggests immediacy—that a request is a demand. That may not be the case, but when the same thing is repeated over and over, it seems impatient.
> 
> You’re very attentive and helpful with troubleshooting. However, this is an atypical situation since it’s quite different than other pedal projects (i.e., high voltage). This is also @vigilante398’s project. I think they should be taking the lead in diagnosing potential issues. It’s quite dangerous and irresponsible to push folks to start poking around in a circuit they might not be comfortable working on.
> 
> Right now, there are some anecdotal accounts of issues that are not present in all builds. @vigilante398 has said they are working to reproduce the issue and will report back.


Cool, Sorry to anyone if I come across as a rude & pushy regarding this Black Eye issue, just trying to Help.
It has certainly gathered some Discussion & I try to help people sort out an Issue so I am bowing out of this Discussion & Good Luck to those with their Build!


----------



## Dan0h

It’s wild how differently things can be perceived when reading someone’s post. I thought this thread has been a productive idea storm related to a tricky issue that some have and others don’t have. It’s hard to solve a problem when the variables are all over the place. The cool part is at the end of the day The black eye will improve and it’s all because of forums like this. Imagine if we didn’t have a place like this… no thanks. Keep the ideas flying.

Tubes are expensive, very finicky, and can be “almost” replicated by other components. Those of us who love using them just love using them and we have to accept that circuits with them are not always going to function properly from the start. Probably why you don’t see many options available for them outside of amp builds.

Sit back and pass it to the left, we have to be getting close to solving this Screech issue. Mine works with a buffer in front but once the actual solution is found I plan on applying the fix.


----------



## Mentaltossflycoon




----------



## fig

vigilante398 said:


> A little while ago in the "Must Build" thread I mentioned my love for the Soldano GTO and was asked if there were any PCBs out there in the world for it. I don't usually work in through-hole, but I decided to take a swing at it. Usually I make a little daughter board for the tube sockets so they can mount at a right angle to the main PCB, but mounting the whole PCB vertically in the chassis like this makes it way easier to build. I'll try to get it boxed up later this month so I can see how it fits, but first I wanted to hear how it sounds. Tayda ran out of the 22nF high voltage caps I planned to use so there's one random yellow film cap, but other than that I'm pleased with the look.
> 
> Also I'm pleased that aside from the tube sockets and the ribbon cable, every single part on this board can be purchased cheap from Tayda.
> 
> View attachment 27022
> View attachment 27023
> View attachment 27024
> View attachment 27025


Nice build!


----------



## tcpoint

I'm quite content to just add a buffer to my build and call it even.  With a buffer it sounds great.  I might try shielded cable.  I am going to pull out the first tube and see what does.  It's one of those pedals that will find a way on one of my boards.  I built a STM800 (grind customs) and it works great.  The power supply is on a separate PCB and the tubes stick out.  I have an extra board and want to do an Atomic 16 on it.  Probably, later this year.


----------



## Deperduci

After a few days with the net dead and more time to actually LOOK at wtf was goign on, I found my ECC83/ax7 tubes were the culprit, not my murder of the 1st board. I also had a pair of psvane ECC81/au7's(might be at7's.. the mid-gain buggers) for a bass amp project, 1 tube outright dead and 2nd not sure how much is even being fed through, I got all knobs on box cranked, vol on amp,25watt noless and the OD kicked on to get what's normally around 2~2.5 and the 2nd build came to life with the milder tubes . This time it was what Amplfied Parts/Antique Electrics sent me, not Tayda! I didn't get the whine at all and actually it's on the quiet side fed from a 1spot 1700ma


----------



## Paradox916

I was really excited about this project as prior to its existence I was contemplating building a SLO clone or looking to find a preamp project…and boom  the black eye shows up! So I immediately got one….  Then the mayhem descended, being a relatively new builder, I held back building it to see if indeed there was or wasn’t a problem… It seems to be a very mixed bag of responses, but none that seem to definitively answer the question (at least for me). I might say goofy 💩 here and there or stir the pot occasionally, but almost never really get heavily involved in situations like this but at this point I feel there is only one way to find out and put this baby to bed… build it… so for those of you in the know be it the creator of the project or just someone in the know, should I build it as per the Build docs(BOM) or should I make any deviations from them? the suggested 1M in R21?  Isolated jacks?  Specific tubes?


----------



## vigilante398

Paradox916 said:


> I was really excited about this project as prior to its existence I was contemplating building a SLO clone or looking to find a preamp project…and boom  the black eye shows up! So I immediately got one….  Then the mayhem descended, being a relatively new builder, I held back building it to see if indeed there was or wasn’t a problem… It seems to be a very mixed bag of responses, but none that seem to definitively answer the question (at least for me). I might say goofy 💩 here and there or stir the pot occasionally, but almost never really get heavily involved in situations like this but at this point I feel there is only one way to find out and put this baby to bed… build it… so for those of you in the know be it the creator of the project or just someone in the know, should I build it as per the Build docs(BOM) or should I make any deviations from them? the suggested 1M in R21?  Isolated jacks?  Specific tubes?


That's up to you. The grid leak resistor (R21) in the original Soldano GTO (I have one now and I got to check firsthand) is 100k, but when I design tube preamps from scratch I use 1M there, so that wouldn't be an issue here. I'm not sure how helpful isolated jacks would be, but it wouldn't hurt anything as long as you still provide some kind of ground connection to the chassis.

There is a note about tubes I can add. I was talking to a guy that had built one that was having oscillation problems and I mentioned that the original GTO that I bought came to me with a pair of 12AT7 in it instead of 12AX7, so he tried 12AT7 in his build and it took care of it. Not sure if you would consider that a band-aid fix as the reports I'm hearing of oscillation are only at higher gain settings and 12AT7 just gives you less overall gain than a 12AX7. Just something to consider though if you have tubes lying around and want to try out.


----------



## Paradox916

vigilante398 said:


> That's up to you. The grid leak resistor (R21) in the original Soldano GTO (I have one now and I got to check firsthand) is 100k, but when I design tube preamps from scratch I use 1M there, so that wouldn't be an issue here. I'm not sure how helpful isolated jacks would be, but it wouldn't hurt anything as long as you still provide some kind of ground connection to the chassis.
> 
> There is a note about tubes I can add. I was talking to a guy that had built one that was having oscillation problems and I mentioned that the original GTO that I bought came to me with a pair of 12AT7 in it instead of 12AX7, so he tried 12AT7 in his build and it took care of it. Not sure if you would consider that a band-aid fix as the reports I'm hearing of oscillation are only at higher gain settings and 12AT7 just gives you less overall gain than a 12AX7. Just something to consider though if you have tubes lying around and want to try out.


We’re you ever able to reproduce the squealing/oscillation/noise at any volume or gain settings on ether the original GTO or the black eye?


----------



## vigilante398

Paradox916 said:


> We’re you ever able to reproduce the squealing/oscillation/noise at any volume or gain settings on ether the original GTO or the black eye?


Nope, I built another one and I'm still not having any issues with either of the units I built or the original GTO. I've offered finished Black Eye builds for customers for a couple years and never had issues with them, they just never sold well as most of my customers are bassists so I stopped offering them. 

One of the people that reported oscillations has offered to send me his build to take a look at, and that should arrive this weekend. I don't know that I'll have time immediately this weekend to check it out, but I will of course let everyone know what I find out when I do.


----------



## tcpoint

I'll have some time, this weekend to try a couple of things.  I'll definitely try removing the first tube and see if there's some oscillation.  I have at least one 12AT7 laying around (maybe two).  I have a bunch of 12AU7.


----------



## Deperduci

Ive noticed that the ecc81 also warms up a little more when paired with the 83 versus the pair of 81. i’ll see what the local GC has in the case for tubes, try out some tung sol’s the 83’s were JJ’s.  Still bugs me tha I need to be at max settings to see unity on the signal.


----------



## Paradox916

vigilante398 said:


> Nope, I built another one and I'm still not having any issues with either of the units I built or the original GTO. I've offered finished Black Eye builds for customers for a couple years and never had issues with them, they just never sold well as most of my customers are bassists so I stopped offering them.
> 
> One of the people that reported oscillations has offered to send me his build to take a look at, and that should arrive this weekend. I don't know that I'll have time immediately this weekend to check it out, but I will of course let everyone know what I find out when I do.


Thanks for answering back quickly, I appreciate it,  Hopefully I can get it all put together in a reasonable timeframe.


----------



## TGP39

I’ll throw my hat in the ring.  I just finished building my Black Eye. I’ve been building for about ten years with a few tube projects thrown in there, so take that for what it’s worth.  First, the thing sounds killer when you keep the gain and output under 50%.  Above 50% for either the gain or output I get the high pitch squeal.  Most of my parts for this build were obtained through Tayda including the NE555 chip.  Everything was built in accordance with Sushi Box BOM / instructions.  I’m using two JJ 12AX7’s I had in my stash.  Couple of thoughts on my next try:
1. Maybe try A500K for the gain and output. 
2. Try the TLC555 chip instead. I’ve read a few anecdotal reports how this helped an oscillating NE 555 chip. 
3 I’m going to try all mouser parts instead. 
4. Try out the 12AT7’s 
There was also a question regarding NE555 oscillation here:








						How to remove the high pitched noise at the output of my audio amplifier circuit?
					

I'm trying to simulate an audio amplifier circuit in LTspice. I made this circuit based on the circuit I found here: https://circuits-diy.com/how-to-make-audio-amplifier-circuit-using-555-timer/ . ...




					electronics.stackexchange.com
				



There was an interesting suggestion about placing a 100nf cap between pin 5 of the 555 chip and the collector of BC107 (in this example). Admittedly, I don’t know if it’s applicable here.  
Hopefully we can figure out how to tame this beast because it’s worth taming.


----------



## Deperduci

Updates on my foray, I found an Orange micro-dark “used” for price at GC that including the tung sols paid the same as a new Micro, my tubes are all good (orange mini amps are close to what i was trying to build with my 10 and 60watt boards easy to test with top off each tube)but flock this thing acts as a mute , gain maxed and Od kicked in same results as the 81s… but i also used the Mouser sourced ne555 not a tayda   I must be losing power somewhere…..


----------



## Dan0h

TGP39 said:


> I’ll throw my hat in the ring.  I just finished building my Black Eye. I’ve been building for about ten years with a few tube projects thrown in there, so take that for what it’s worth.  First, the thing sounds killer when you keep the gain and output under 50%.  Above 50% for either the gain or output I get the high pitch squeal.  Most of my parts for this build were obtained through Tayda including the NE555 chip.  Everything was built in accordance with Sushi Box BOM / instructions.  I’m using two JJ 12AX7’s I had in my stash.  Couple of thoughts on my next try:
> 1. Maybe try A500K for the gain and output.
> 2. Try the TLC555 chip instead. I’ve read a few anecdotal reports how this helped an oscillating NE 555 chip.
> 3 I’m going to try all mouser parts instead.
> 4. Try out the 12AT7’s
> There was also a question regarding NE555 oscillation here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to remove the high pitched noise at the output of my audio amplifier circuit?
> 
> 
> I'm trying to simulate an audio amplifier circuit in LTspice. I made this circuit based on the circuit I found here: https://circuits-diy.com/how-to-make-audio-amplifier-circuit-using-555-timer/ . ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> electronics.stackexchange.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was an interesting suggestion about placing a 100nf cap between pin 5 of the 555 chip and the collector of BC107 (in this example). Admittedly, I don’t know if it’s applicable here.
> Hopefully we can figure out how to tame this beast because it’s worth taming.


I would be happy to try the TLC555. I socketed the NE555. 

The mouser parts might not do the trick, I built the space heater with all mouser and still get noise at higher gain.


----------



## music6000

TGP39 said:


> I’ll throw my hat in the ring.  I just finished building my Black Eye. I’ve been building for about ten years with a few tube projects thrown in there, so take that for what it’s worth.  First, the thing sounds killer when you keep the gain and output under 50%.  Above 50% for either the gain or output I get the high pitch squeal.  Most of my parts for this build were obtained through Tayda including the NE555 chip.  Everything was built in accordance with Sushi Box BOM / instructions.  I’m using two JJ 12AX7’s I had in my stash.  Couple of thoughts on my next try:
> 1. Maybe try A500K for the gain and output.
> 2. Try the TLC555 chip instead. I’ve read a few anecdotal reports how this helped an oscillating NE 555 chip.
> 3 I’m going to try all mouser parts instead.
> 4. Try out the 12AT7’s
> There was also a question regarding NE555 oscillation here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to remove the high pitched noise at the output of my audio amplifier circuit?
> 
> 
> I'm trying to simulate an audio amplifier circuit in LTspice. I made this circuit based on the circuit I found here: https://circuits-diy.com/how-to-make-audio-amplifier-circuit-using-555-timer/ . ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> electronics.stackexchange.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was an interesting suggestion about placing a 100nf cap between pin 5 of the 555 chip and the collector of BC107 (in this example). Admittedly, I don’t know if it’s applicable here.
> Hopefully we can figure out how to tame this beast because it’s worth taming.


I just finished mine & it does Squeal with the Gain at near full Clockwise position when plugged from Guitar direct to Amp.
It behaves as Normal with no Squeal at all on my pedalboard as I have a Buffer in front.
I used all parts from Tayda except NE555P & Resistors, This thing has too much Gain for me!!!


----------



## Dan0h

Just ordered a ten pack of TLC555 chips. Of this is the fix I’ll be happy to share the extras.


----------



## vigilante398

The oscillating unit sent by another builder arrived to me yesterday, I'll try to find time in the next week to take a look at it. I will let everyone know how it goes.


----------



## THeHammer82

This thread has blown up since I’ve been gone lol. Mine won’t squeal unless I have the volume up past unity (about 9 o’clock) and the gain maxed. I’m going to try a buffer in front of it and see how it sounds.


----------



## THeHammer82

I put my buffered bypass Klon Klone in front of the Black Eye and I can max out the gain and volume without any squealing (besides the normal high gain feedback).


----------



## matt3310

Sorry I haven't revisited this thread sooner. I have built 7 of these so far. I tested them all on my pedal board and had 0 issues with them. BUT when I took one to my buddy house is was squealing like cray. I realized when I had a buffered pedal in front of it no noise. So I added a small buffer circuit in it, and all is good!Easy fix and it sounds great!!


----------



## vigilante398

matt3310 said:


> Sorry I haven't revisited this thread sooner. I have built 7 of these so far. I tested them all on my pedal board and had 0 issues with them. BUT when I took one to my buddy house is was squealing like cray. I realized when I had a buffered pedal in front of it no noise. So I added a small buffer circuit in it, and all is good!Easy fix and it sounds great!!


I just finished the last of my customer builds for the month and I still have a few days before I start on the next, so I took the chance to play with the Black Eye build that was sent to me, and I was able to get some oscillation with it, so I have something to start with for figuring this out. As such I've suspended sales of Black Eye PCBs for the time being.

One thing I'm going to play with is a buffer in front, and if I find something that works consistently I think the easiest solution will be to redesign the footswitch board to put a simple buffer circuit on it. So you don't need to modify the main board, just remove the previous footswitch board (easier said than done, I know) and drop in the replacement with the buffer on it.


----------



## vigilante398

I'm going to try breadboarding this up tonight to make sure it fixes the problem, but this is my idea for an add-on buffer. It's a relatively tight fit, but if I use SMD parts I can squeeze a simple input buffer on the bottom side of the footswitch board without changing the dimensions. The pedal will still be true bypass, this would just come between the 3PDT and the actual Black Eye input.


----------



## Deperduci

for those who will ask, this going to be available separately or only on new orders? and I still haven’t found where i’m losing volume or why only ecc81’s work or needs at least 1 socket filled with a medium gain tube. hope it cuts the squealing for the people who have it.


----------



## vigilante398

Deperduci said:


> for those who will ask, this going to be available separately or only on new orders?


Both. If this is the fix that makes it work, I'll make it the new standard footswitch board that I ship with all new orders, and I will offer them to anyone that previously ordered at no cost. Figuring out how to fix something and making people pay extra for it would be a dick move


----------



## vigilante398

So I soldered up a simple buffer on vero last night and was able to get rid of the oscillation, but it was super noisy, so I'm going to try a different buffer and see if I can get better results.

Sidenote: I hate vero. I don't know how I used to deal with that regularly.


----------



## music6000

matt3310 said:


> Sorry I haven't revisited this thread sooner. I have built 7 of these so far. I tested them all on my pedal board and had 0 issues with them. BUT when I took one to my buddy house is was squealing like cray. I realized when I had a buffered pedal in front of it no noise. So I added a small buffer circuit in it, and all is good!Easy fix and it sounds great!!


Thanks Matt, I thought that's why you didn't have an Issue & I got reamed for being Pushy to ask you an important point.
Matt, this is not directed at you as written below.
Sometimes it can  come back & Bite you on the Ass!!!


----------



## MichaelW

music6000 said:


> Thanks Matt, I thought that's why you didn't have an Issue & I got reamed for being Pushy to ask you an important point.
> Matt, this is not directed at you as written below.
> Sometimes it can  come back & Bite you on the Ass!!!


@music6000 why are you so damn pushy?


----------



## szukalski

MichaelW said:


> @music6000 why are you so damn pushy?


Aussies and Kiwis are just pains in the ass!


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

szukalski said:


> Aussies and Kiwis are just pains in the ass!


No wonder the ‘78 Sgt Pepper movie was such a mess. Those brothers Gibb were up to some sorts of pushy skullduggery. That’s the real reason why Frampton jumped!


----------



## vigilante398

Upon recommendation from a friend I decided to try Jack Orman's "amplike" buffer. It's not as tidy on the footswitch board, but it still fits without having to resize it. I had to slide the CLR over, but the LED is staying in the same place so it can still be a drop-in replacement without modifying the drill template.

Same story as yesterday, I'll throw it together on a vero tonight and try it with the Black Eye I have on hand, if it works I'll go ahead and order boards. I may order a small quantity first as a design try-out, but it depends on cost difference. Sometimes it's only a few bucks difference between ordering 5 and ordering 50.


----------



## Mentaltossflycoon

vigilante398 said:


> Upon recommendation from a friend I decided to try Jack Orman's "amplike" buffer. It's not as tidy on the footswitch board, but it still fits without having to resize it. I had to slide the CLR over, but the LED is staying in the same place so it can still be a drop-in replacement without modifying the drill template.
> 
> Same story as yesterday, I'll throw it together on a vero tonight and try it with the Black Eye I have on hand, if it works I'll go ahead and order boards. I may order a small quantity first as a design try-out, but it depends on cost difference. Sometimes it's only a few bucks difference between ordering 5 and ordering 50.
> 
> View attachment 31550


I have my black eye 98% complete, all but one resistor value as per always. Anyway, if you're looking for guinea pigs when you've verified i'm down. I'll be waiting for the buffered daughter board either way.


----------



## music6000

Bricksnbeatles said:


> No wonder the ‘78 Sgt Pepper movie was such a mess. Those brothers Gibb were up to some sorts of pushy skullduggery. That’s the real reason why Frampton jumped!


The Brothers Gibb were all from England, grew up in Australia!!!


----------



## Chuck D. Bones

The question we should be asking is "Why do we need to add a buffer to cure squealing?"  Squealing is just the symptom, not the root cause of the problem.


----------



## music6000

Chuck D. Bones said:


> The question we should be asking is "Why do we need to add a buffer to cure squealing?"  Squealing is just the symptom, not the root cause of the problem.


Very confined PCB with Input & Power traces close together combined with High Gain would be a possible cause!
The Original was Noisy & is equivalent to 3- 1590BB's.
The Sib Cuda runs the same 9v to 200v + Power converter but only One valve is involved.


----------



## Chuck D. Bones

DC-DC converters are by their very nature noise sources.  It takes a lot of work to 
a) reduce noise at the source
b) minimize coupling
c) decrease susceptibility of the high-gain circuits

We have to address filtering, board layout, grounding and off-board wire routing to accomplish those things.


----------



## vigilante398

Chuck D. Bones said:


> The question we should be asking is "Why do we need to add a buffer to cure squealing?"  Squealing is just the symptom, not the root cause of the problem.


I suspect that it's a routing issue. The layout is more compact than it probably should be on account of the tube socket mounting setup, so the routing probably isn't following best practice for high gain design.


----------



## ICTRock

Chuck D. Bones said:


> The question we should be asking is "Why do we need to add a buffer to cure squealing?"  Squealing is just the symptom, not the root cause of the problem.


I've stayed out of this one for a while and privately told certain individuals what I think but ultimately, you and I are in agreement that putting a buffer in front of it is like putting a painting over a hole in the wall. You don't see the hole anymore but it is very much still there.

So what is the buffer doing?
driving signal current and masking the parasitic current causing the squeal.

The obvious answer here is that the layout is too compact and poorly designed. I'm sorry if that hurts the feelings of the vendor but we learn from fixing mistakes, not hiding them and providing a buffer pcb is a duct tape and baling wire solution at best.

A number of answers can be found here https://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/white-papers. Merlin's book on tube amp design is a grail. Following vendor instructions has you grounding the input jack to a power supply ground. It also has you running the input signal unshielded and parallel to both power supply and heater runs. There's the previously mentioned impedance issue allegedly inherent to the design (no verified trace with pictures, etc. currently exists to confirm). I could go on but I see others are posting replies so I'll cut this short


----------



## ICTRock

I do want to leave one last thing, this problem isn't unique to this particular pedal. I've seen this out of a number of high gain, solid state amp in a box pedals. I once pulled an all-nighter fighting with a DIY SansAmp GT2 to get rid of squeal and still ended up with a hissy mess with the gain maxed. Sometimes you can't round the corners off enough to get that square peg into the round hole.


----------



## Bricksnbeatles

music6000 said:


> The Brothers Gibb were all from England, grew up in Australia!!!


British born, but I generally see them considered to be an Aussie band by other people. They did spend their main formative years in Australia 🇦🇺


----------



## vigilante398

ICTRock said:


> (no verified trace with pictures, etc. currently exists to confirm)





Had to remove like a million screws just to get the PCB out of the thing.


----------



## Paradox916

So how did that different buffer workout? less noisy?


----------



## vigilante398

Paradox916 said:


> So how did that different buffer workout? less noisy?


It was less noisy, but it also dropped the gain a bunch. I think I may have messed up somewhere in my vero layout. I'll have more time to work tonight than I did last night, I'll see if I can figure it out and try again.


----------



## Brett

vigilante398 said:


> I suspect that it's a routing issue. The layout is more compact than it probably should be on account of the tube socket mounting setup, so the routing probably isn't following best practice for high gain design.


Have you considered offloading the boost converter to a daughterboard that mounts through header pins to the main board? You could likely fit something along the input side or output side wall of the enclosure (the output side is probably a slightly better choice). The additional room on the main board may allow for more effective routing.


----------



## Deperduci

Vigilant normally works with smd on completed pedals, better component construction and smaller sizes… what fits in a smartphone now could fill a mid 70’s marshall jtm 800 cab with bits out the back in through hole and spacing for RF avoidance  easy.


----------



## vigilante398

Brett said:


> Have you considered offloading the boost converter to a daughterboard that mounts through header pins to the main board? You could likely fit something along the input side or output side wall of the enclosure (the output side is probably a slightly better choice). The additional room on the main board may allow for more effective routing.


I haven't really considered it. The goal of the whole project was to make it easy to assemble, once I open the door to daughter boards it completely changes things. The easiest way would be to put the tubes on daughter boards and mount the PCB horizontally, which is what I do for my usual builds and it gives me a lot more room to work with. 

My SMD version of Black Eye fits in a 125B because the components are so much smaller, but I actually used a 4-layer PCB for that so I could route it more cleanly, and it has never had oscillation issues. I will admit I spent a lot more time on that layout than I did on this one.


----------



## szukalski

Bricksnbeatles said:


> British born, but I generally see them considered to be an Aussie band by other people. They did spend their main formative years in Australia 🇦🇺


Next you’ll be claiming Dragon, Crowded House, and Split Enz! 😅


----------



## tcpoint

Quick note.  I put 12au7 tubes in.  No squeal.  I'm going to probably try a combo of 12au7 and 12ax7/12at7.  I like the 12au7s but I need a little more gain.   I didn't need a buffer, either.  I really like the 12au7s but would like to have 12ax7 build and 12au7 build.  Different pedals but both really good.


----------



## MichaelW

tcpoint said:


> Quick note.  I put 12au7 tubes in.  No squeal.  I'm going to probably try a combo of 12au7 and 12ax7/12at7.  I like the 12au7s but I need a little more gain.   I didn't need a buffer, either.  I really like the 12au7s but would like to have 12ax7 build and 12au7 build.  Different pedals but both really good.


@tcpoint, how much gain do you get with the 12AU7s in the BE? Can you get it "clean"? I'm doing that with my Space Heater and a 12AU7 but I'm wishing for some basic EQ, would be cool to be able to do it with the BE.


----------



## tcpoint

When you use 12AU7s, the gain know is really only useful from about 11am - noon and up.  When I turn the volume all the way up and turn the gain to unity, it is somewhat clean unless I hit the strings hard.  If I do that it goes from edge of breakup and a little bit past that.  That's with humbuckers.  With single coils, it stays pretty clean.  I do like this with 12AU7s but it's more of low - low/medium gain pedal.  I'm going to experiment with different combos, tomorrow.  I'll probably figure out where the squeals come from (V1 or V2).  My feelings, this is DIY and that implies tweaking and sometimes it doesn't turn out the way you envision.  This is a fun pedal and it's going to eventually earn a spot on my board.


----------



## tcpoint

Quick update.  I put a 12AX7 in V2 and it sounds great.  No squeal (no buffer needed).  I'm going to try a 12AT7 in V1 (I have a 12AU7 there now).  I'm convinced that squeal came from V1.  I tried a 12AT7, but I can't remember if I tried it in V1 or V2.


----------



## benny_profane

I may have missed it, but what’s the status of the board and the squealing? Is the solution an integrated buffer on the switching daughterboard, or are there plans to revise the board to address the issue?


----------



## vigilante398

benny_profane said:


> I may have missed it, but what’s the status of the board and the squealing? Is the solution an integrated buffer on the switching daughterboard, or are there plans to revise the board to address the issue?


I had been experimenting with a buffer on vero and it seems like that does the trick. I ordered new footswitch PCBs with a built-in buffer that just shipped from China today, so I should see them next week. Once I have the chance to verify that they're going to work the way I want I'll let everyone know and start getting them out to people.


----------



## Betty Wont

Well, I'm throwing in the towel. I've built 3 of these from different parts with 3 different buffers and they all act the same in most testing conditions. The only condition they don't oscillate is when plugged into a battery powered amp. I stupidly sent one out to a customer thinking the buffer addition fixed it, but it was just the isolated amp. So that one got to travel the US before I binned it. This has been the most frustrating and expensive failure I've had in pedals by a factor.


----------



## benny_profane

If it’d be an option, I’d gladly deal with angled pin headers if that would help mitigate the issue by increasing board routing space. I’ve been holding off building mine until a good solution was found.


----------



## Dan0h

I’ve been playing around with having the power section and the audio section separated as far as possible from each other in the enclosure. Turrets and Perf board, but it’s such a spaghetti dinner worth of wires to get everything where it needs I haven’t had the time to assemble it all. I’m thinking the reason most old school tube pedals came in larger enclosures is the space issue. You get the screeches when things are too close. 

With all that said I’ve had no issues with my black eye build since dropping down to a AT7 in V1 (as long as it’s after a buffer).


----------



## Paradox916

Feral Feline said:


> @MichaelW You seem to collect buffers, buster!
> 
> I've got one or two of each of the examples you mention. If you want to turn your PPCB Dual Looper into a buffered one, check out the Effects Layouts Storyboardist Micro Buffer, Klon-buffer on a jack.


@vigilante398 you ever get that buffer sorted out?       Would something like that work well you think?


----------



## vigilante398

So my friend swore up and down that the AMZ amp-like buffer would be perfect so I ordered PCBs for it which arrived yesterday, and it doesn't get rid of the oscillations in this build. I've tried the tubescreamer buffer and simple JFET buffer on vero and now the amplike buffer on PCB, I guess Klon buffer is next?

For those that have placed a buffer in front and successfully resolved it, what buffer are you using?


----------



## music6000

vigilante398 said:


> So my friend swore up and down that the AMZ amp-like buffer would be perfect so I ordered PCBs for it which arrived yesterday, and it doesn't get rid of the oscillations in this build. I've tried the tubescreamer buffer and simple JFET buffer on vero and now the amplike buffer on PCB, I guess Klon buffer is next?
> 
> For those that have placed a buffer in front and successfully resolved it, what buffer are you using?


Your tapping into the Footswitch, what happens if you put it between Power jack & Input Jack???


----------



## vigilante398

music6000 said:


> Your tapping into the Footswitch, what happens if you put it between Power jack & Input Jack???


Not sure what you mean. The buffer needs to go between the input jack and the circuit input, and the footswitch is the most convenient spot to stick it in there.


----------



## Dan0h

vigilante398 said:


> So my friend swore up and down that the AMZ amp-like buffer would be perfect so I ordered PCBs for it which arrived yesterday, and it doesn't get rid of the oscillations in this build. I've tried the tubescreamer buffer and simple JFET buffer on vero and now the amplike buffer on PCB, I guess Klon buffer is next?
> 
> For those that have placed a buffer in front and successfully resolved it, what buffer are you using?


Both the General Tso buffer in front and the Klon buffer in front work for mine.


----------



## music6000

vigilante398 said:


> Not sure what you mean. The buffer needs to go between the input jack and the circuit input, and the footswitch is the most convenient spot to stick it in there.


I mean before the ribbon cable, not after.
From Input Jack into Buffer, from Buffer to Input Jack pad on the PCB, Power from Jack into Buffer, Ground from Jack into buffer.


----------



## Mcknib

I built the pcb version using 12AX7s and breadboarded the circuit using 6948s

Both oscillated! The first thing I normally suspect is myself until proven otherwise

Long story short I went over the circuit with a fine tooth comb nothing affected the oscillation in the power supply, the only thing I could get to alter the oscillation was tapping V1 pins 2 and 3

I had noticed that the tube filaments weren't exactly glowing in fact you could barely see them light up in a darkened room

So I thought not enough current to heat these beasties so electron flow ain't happening

I changed V1 from a Sovtek (admittedly taken from an old amp) to a JJ and the oscillation instantly dissapeared

I also changed V2 just because

I checked it in every possible configuration max gain, different amps, different guitars and pickups etc

I now have a very silent gloriously glowing gain machine that works as intended thanks @vigilante398 and cheers for your time, teachings and quick responses it's very much appreciated

Here's a very short strum on my phone, no mics and no actual playing I had the fear getting too close to an unboxed HV circuit, gains maxed you'll hear very little circuit background noise all I do is 2 chords let it ring change pickups and tone on the pedal









						Black aye.mp4
					






					drive.google.com
				




Obviously as you can see in the short vid title this is the Scottish version


----------



## vigilante398

music6000 said:


> I mean before the ribbon cable, not after.
> From Input Jack into Buffer, from Buffer to Input Jack pad on the PCB, Power from Jack into Buffer, Ground from Jack into buffer.


Okay gotcha, I see what you mean. I can certainly give it a try.


----------



## Betty Wont

vigilante398 said:


> Okay gotcha, I see what you mean. I can certainly give it a try.


I tried this. No go. I tried the pedalpcb simple buffer, a cornish buffer, and putting buffered pedals before, after, and both. No change.


----------



## vigilante398

Betty Wont said:


> I tried this. No go. I tried the pedalpcb simple buffer, a cornish buffer, and putting buffered pedals before, after, and both. No change.


So far this is where I'm at with the experiment:

PedalPCB simple JFET buffer - soldered up on vero and put separately in front, solved the problem; wired inside the enclosure and the oscillation was gone, but there was a ridiculous amount of noise, regardless of how much filtering I added to the power rail
Tubescreamer-style 2N3904 buffer - same results as simple JFET buffer. Seemed to work outside of the enclosure, but as soon as I pulled it inside it got really noisy.
AMZ "amplike" op-amp buffer - pretty sure I messed up on the vero layout so I optimistically ordered a bunch of PCBs (seriously if anyone wants a 3PDT PCB with a preassembled SMD buffer on it, hit me up I have 100); has absolutely no effect on the oscillation
External things that worked:

when I test pedals that I'm building I typically don't waste time with a guitar, I just keep a riff stored on a looper and run that through the pedal. Obviously this has an output buffer on the looper, and when I run the looper with no guitar on the input through the Black Eye there is absolutely no oscillation
I've been playing a lot of bass lately, and when I run my active bass through it there is no oscillation
Another suggestion @music6000 had that I'll try tonight is silicone damper rings. A million years ago I built a high gain preamp that had oscillation problems that went away when I physically held the tube, which indicated the problem was the tube itself oscillating. I have a handful of these on hand already, so we'll see if that helps.


----------



## Betty Wont

vigilante398 said:


> Another suggestion @music6000 had that I'll try tonight is silicone damper rings. A million years ago I built a high gain preamp that had oscillation problems that went away when I physically held the tube, which indicated the problem was the tube itself oscillating. I have a handful of these on hand already, so we'll see if that helps.


I use those on my amp tubes and they didn't help this situation either. They look cool though!


----------



## Deperduci

I'm still trying to find why mine is quiet-ish when I use ECC81/mild gains(not to unity maxed out on all knobs) and no response from 83/ax7's 81's are psvanes, and tried both JJ's and tung sols for ax7's. I wish I could get them to working outside the box then I'd attach to a SS power board and call it good...


----------



## music6000

vigilante398 said:


> So far this is where I'm at with the experiment:
> 
> PedalPCB simple JFET buffer - soldered up on vero and put separately in front, solved the problem; wired inside the enclosure and the oscillation was gone, but there was a ridiculous amount of noise, regardless of how much filtering I added to the power rail
> Tubescreamer-style 2N3904 buffer - same results as simple JFET buffer. Seemed to work outside of the enclosure, but as soon as I pulled it inside it got really noisy.
> AMZ "amplike" op-amp buffer - pretty sure I messed up on the vero layout so I optimistically ordered a bunch of PCBs (seriously if anyone wants a 3PDT PCB with a preassembled SMD buffer on it, hit me up I have 100); has absolutely no effect on the oscillation
> External things that worked:
> 
> when I test pedals that I'm building I typically don't waste time with a guitar, I just keep a riff stored on a looper and run that through the pedal. Obviously this has an output buffer on the looper, and when I run the looper with no guitar on the input through the Black Eye there is absolutely no oscillation
> I've been playing a lot of bass lately, and when I run my active bass through it there is no oscillation
> Another suggestion @music6000 had that I'll try tonight is silicone damper rings. A million years ago I built a high gain preamp that had oscillation problems that went away when I physically held the tube, which indicated the problem was the tube itself oscillating. I have a handful of these on hand already, so we'll see if that helps.


Another thing I found is the tube's are prone to be more sensitive to pinging if enclosure is knocked with them fully pushed in.
I pulled mine up a whisker from being fully seated in the Socket & it cushioned the tube's sensitivity considerably.


----------



## MichaelW

vigilante398 said:


> So my friend swore up and down that the AMZ amp-like buffer would be perfect so I ordered PCBs for it which arrived yesterday, and it doesn't get rid of the oscillations in this build. I've tried the tubescreamer buffer and simple JFET buffer on vero and now the amplike buffer on PCB, I guess Klon buffer is next?
> 
> For those that have placed a buffer in front and successfully resolved it, what buffer are you using?


*Buffers that DO work:*
General Tso's (Thorpy)
Cornish Buffer (any buffered Cornish pedal)
Klon style
TC Electronic Bona Fide (Built into my tuner)

*Buffers that do NOT work:*
PPCB Simple JFet Buffer. (Used on the output of my Amentum Boost build)


----------



## MichaelW

@vigilante398 I may have a few more buffered pedals lying about I can try if it will help. Just lemme know.


----------



## vigilante398

MichaelW said:


> @vigilante398 I may have a few more buffered pedals lying about I can try if it will help. Just lemme know.


Thanks, I appreciate it. I'll see what parts I have on hand so I can throw together a few more tryout circuits. I'll take a look at the ones you posted and see what I can try out the easiest.


----------



## music6000

MichaelW said:


> *Buffers that DO work:*
> General Tso's (Thorpy)
> Cornish Buffer (any buffered Cornish pedal)
> Klon style
> TC Electronic Bona Fide (Built into my tuner)
> 
> *Buffers that do NOT work:*
> PPCB Simple JFet Buffer. (Used on the output of my Amentum Boost build)


Another Member used the PPCB Simple JFet Buffer on the Input of their Black Eye and it fixed the Squeal?
My Simple Jfet Eyelet also worked but outside the pedal, Will not fit internally!


----------



## MichaelW

music6000 said:


> Another Member used the PPCB Simple JFet Buffer on the Input of their Black Eye and it fixed the Squeal?


I dunno, I just tried it and it still squeals with the gain dimed. It "helps" but doesn't make it go away as definitively as the Klon or Cornish buffer does.

This is what I tried.


----------



## music6000

MichaelW said:


> I dunno, I just tried it and it still squeals with the gain dimed. It "helps" but doesn't make it go away as definitively as the Klon or Cornish buffer does.
> 
> This is what I tried.


Was this externally on the Input of the Black Eye?


----------



## MichaelW

music6000 said:


> Was this externally on the Input of the Black Eye?


Yup. Guitar->Amentum->BE


----------



## MichaelW

Kinda interesting that the C-Buffer works as that is also a transistor based buffer. Ugh, I have a pedal that used a C-Buffer board on but I can't remember which one. Let me look through my notes.


----------



## music6000

MichaelW said:


> Yup. Guitar->Amentum->BE


So if I have this right, You have to have the Amentum Boost on for the Buffer on the Output of the Amentum to make it work?


----------



## MichaelW

music6000 said:


> So if I have this right, You have to have the Amentum Boost on for the Buffer on the Output of the Amentum to make it work?


I have the Simple JFet Buffer on the Amentum output and it does NOT work.

Ok some interesting findings.

*WORKS:*
General Tso (Thorpy Buffer built in)
Convex (Thorpy Buffer built in)
Oceanid (Cornish Buffer built in)
Cephus (Cornish Buffer built in)
FDIC (Fuller Buffer built in)
Any Klon (Klon Buffer built in)
TC Electronic Polytune3 Mini w/Bona Fide buffer
Boss RV-3 (retail)
Ceasar Chorus
Celsius Preamp

*Does NOT Work:*
Ember (TC Spark) Boost using PPCB Cornish Buffer daughterboard
Amentum Boost using Simple JFet daughterboard
Heavy Water Dual Boost (Thorpy buffer built in....not sure why this won't work)
Episode Booster
Clandestine Booster
Xotic EP Booster (Retail)

Edit: In the "Does not work" list it is to varying degrees. For instance, the EP style preamps all quiet it down to a low squeal with the gain dimed. So it's doing SOMETHING. The "DOES WORK" list completely removed any squeal at all and it's just "high gain noise". 
Without anything in front of it, and the gain dimed, I can get Tokyo on shortwave........


----------



## jjjimi84

I built mine and used old stock usa 12ax7s and it squealed like hell half up. I put in jjs and shorten the wires from the main board to the switch and the squealing was almost all gone except at the very end of the rotation. Once i turned on the buffer from the bignoise swiss army fuzz the squeal went away.

I am going to either swap the pot out for a 500k or jumper the outer lugs with a resistor, I found it had too much gain for my taste.

Fyi it sounds outstanding and i am in love, just half way up 🥖💦😉


----------



## Dan0h

If I’m not mistaken @vigilante398 buys truck loads of JJ’s. So it makes sense that JJ’s are handling this issue better than other tubes. They must be more tolerant to something that’s going on. Maybe if we could dump a tad bit more gain out of the path we would be fine? Im happy keeping it after my Klon or after my General Tso as one of those two is always on my board. But it would be nice to solve the squeal for the people that don’t use buffers.


----------



## Betty Wont

My fails all used brand new JJs.


----------



## vigilante398

jjjimi84 said:


> I built mine and used old stock usa 12ax7s and it squealed like hell half up. I put in jjs and shorten the wires from the main board to the switch and the squealing was almost all gone except at the very end of the rotation. Once i turned on the buffer from the bignoise swiss army fuzz the squeal went away.
> 
> I am going to either swap the pot out for a 500k or jumper the outer lugs with a resistor, I found it had too much gain for my taste.
> 
> Fyi it sounds outstanding and i am in love, just half way up 🥖💦😉


In a tube circuit the value of the gain pot doesn't affect the level of gain as it's effectively just a voltage divider, so the ratio determines the gain more than the actual value. To actually lower the gain of the circuit you have a couple options:

choose a tube with a lower amplification factor (12AX7 - 100; 12AT7 - 60; 12AU7 - 20)
lower the value of plate resistors (R11, R12, R13, R14; stock values are 220k, 100k, 100k, 100k respectively)
*raise *the value of cathode resistors on non-bypassed cathodes; first and second stages are bypassed in this circuit, but the third and fourth stages (39k and 2k2 cathode resistors respectively) are not bypassed.
I'm ordering a few different buffer topologies to try out, should have results to report in a week or so.


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## matt3310

This is my fix. Seems to work perfect for me.


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## vigilante398

matt3310 said:


> This is my fix. Seems to work perfect for me.


Is that the simple JFET buffer?


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## MichaelW

vigilante398 said:


> Is that the simple JFET buffer?


Yup.


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## ICTRock

vigilante398 said:


> In a tube circuit the value of the gain pot doesn't affect the level of gain as it's effectively just a voltage divider, so the ratio determines the gain more than the actual value. To actually lower the gain of the circuit you have a couple options:
> 
> choose a tube with a lower amplification factor (12AX7 - 100; 12AT7 - 60; 12AU7 - 20)
> lower the value of plate resistors (R11, R12, R13, R14; stock values are 220k, 100k, 100k, 100k respectively)
> lower the value of cathode resistors on non-bypassed cathodes; first and second stages are bypassed in this circuit, but the third and fourth stages (39k and 2k2 cathode resistors respectively) are not bypassed.
> I'm ordering a few different buffer topologies to try out, should have results to report in a week or so.


Please reread your post regarding cathode resistors and fix it.


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## vigilante398

ICTRock said:


> Please reread your post regarding cathode resistors and fix it.


Whoops, good catch. *Raise *cathode resistor values to lower gain. Thanks!


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## ICTRock

vigilante398 said:


> Whoops, good catch. *Raise *cathode resistor values to lower gain. Thanks!


raising the cold clipper cathode resistor beyond 39K is also ill-advised.


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## matt3310

vigilante398 said:


> Is that the simple JFET buffer?


Yes sir! I used 1uf instead of a 10uf. Works like a champ!


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## benny_profane

I don’t know if this is an option, but I’d be down with a hybrid SMD (resistor) / TH (everything else) board if that would help with routing. Since this issue is unique to the TH board and not the previous SMD production runs, that could help things.


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## vigilante398

So I got a handful of different buffer boards to try, and so far the Cornish works the best. I can get the gain up just past 3 o'clock before it squeals. So it isn't a 100% fix, but it's the closest I've gotten so far.


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## music6000

vigilante398 said:


> So I got a handful of different buffer boards to try, and so far the Cornish works the best. I can get the gain up just past 3 o'clock before it squeals. So it isn't a 100% fix, but it's the closest I've gotten so far.


Are you connecting the Buffer between the Input Jack & Input pad on the PCB?


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## vigilante398

music6000 said:


> Are you connecting the Buffer between the Input Jack & Input pad on the PCB?


Yes and no. The buffer PCBs I designed are still drop-in replacements for the footswitch PCB, but I ran the input jack wire straight to the footswitch PCB instead of the input jack pad on the main PCB. I need power and ground connections, and that's the easiest and cleanest way for me to get them.


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## jimilee

Built mine up and tested it out. Sounds great, but the tubes don't glow. How are other people supposed to know I'm better than them with my kickass tube pedal if the tubes don't glow?


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## Gordo

They don’t glow.  I did 4 LEDs as backlighting


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## MichaelW

jimilee said:


> Built mine up and tested it out. Sounds great, but the tubes don't glow. How are other people supposed to know I'm better than them with my kickass tube pedal if the tubes don't glow?


That's what the extra CLR and LED holes pads are for........to MAKE SURE everyone knows it's as glowing hot tube.....


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## vigilante398

Alright, I've concluded some fairly extensive testing and have determined that the Cornish buffer is the best option I've found to tame the oscillations. I can get gain up to 3 o'clock on this build before it starts whining, which is a huge improvement over what it was, I think it started around 11 o'clock before.

I only ordered a handful of Cornish PCBs to start, *can I get a couple volunteers to try them out* on your Black Eye build and verify that it helps with the oscillations? Once I've had non-affiliated builders confirm that it helps I will make the boards available to everyone that has a Black Eye board. I only have 4 more boards on hand but I would be happy to send all 4 out there to make sure they work so I feel better ordering 100.


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## vigilante398

This is what the buffer boards look like, obviously pre-soldered. You swap out the original 3PDT board for these, then the wire from the input jack goes straight to this board instead of to the main PCB. So almost a drop-in replacement, but definitely an easy replacement. LED is still in the same place, so you don't need to change the enclosure.


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## Bricksnbeatles

Haven’t built mine yet, but I’m finishing up the some faceplates to order including for this build, so it’s pretty soon in the pipeline. Do you think that using 12AY7 or 12AT7 tubes combined with the buffer would make it so the gain can go beyond 3:00 without squeal? I’d rather have slightly less gain on tap but a full useable range of rotation on the gain pot than have the full over-the-top gain level with only 2/3 of a useable rotation before squeal city.


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## matt3310

@vigilante398 I'll buy a couple and try them. Got 2 I need to build this next week.


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## vigilante398

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Haven’t built mine yet, but I’m finishing up the some faceplates to order including for this build, so it’s pretty soon in the pipeline. Do you think that using 12AY7 or 12AT7 tubes combined with the buffer would make it so the gain can go beyond 3:00 without squeal? I’d rather have slightly less gain on tap but a full useable range of rotation on the gain pot than have the full over-the-top gain level with only 2/3 of a useable rotation before squeal city.


It's very possible, I have 12AX7 in both positions on this one, 12AT7 has 70% of the gain of 12AX7 and 12AY7 only has 44%, and I'm getting more than 75% of the gain sweep without squeal, so I would expect those tubes with the buffer in front to do it.


matt3310 said:


> @vigilante398 I'll buy a couple and try them. Got 2 I need to build this next week.


I'm not selling them, but I can get you a couple for free  PM me your address (I know I have it somewhere, but this is faster) and I'll get a couple out to you.


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## MichaelW

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Haven’t built mine yet, but I’m finishing up the some faceplates to order including for this build, so it’s pretty soon in the pipeline. Do you think that using 12AY7 or 12AT7 tubes combined with the buffer would make it so the gain can go beyond 3:00 without squeal? I’d rather have slightly less gain on tap but a full useable range of rotation on the gain pot than have the full over-the-top gain level with only 2/3 of a useable rotation before squeal city.


I just put a 12AT7 in V1 in combination with a 12AX7 in V2, you're still going to get a LOT of gain, this thing is a beast. I still only ever run the gain around 9-10 o'clock. But then, I'm an old guy...so....there's that.


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## Dan0h

@vigilante398 I would try it out. Let me know.


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## jjjimi84

@vigilante398 I would like to give it a go. I would film a before and after for my demo


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## jimilee

I used 2 12AX7s in mine. No oscillation and all that awesome cutting edge tube sound.


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## vigilante398

Well it looks like all the boards I have on hand now have new homes lined up, I'll get them out today after work. I'll get the order ready to get a bunch more in stock so everybody can have them, so if I don't get to you this time I'll get to you shortly.


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## vigilante398

Alright, just got the first report back from one of my buffer board testers, he says it works great and no oscillations now. I'm still waiting for the others to report back to confirm, but that's enough for me to line up the order for more of those footswitch boards.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

vigilante398 said:


> Alright, just got the first report back from one of my buffer board testers, he says it works great and no oscillations now. I'm still waiting for the others to report back to confirm, but that's enough for me to line up the order for more of those footswitch boards.


Just got mine yesterday, hoping to finish it up later today.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

Mentaltossflycoon said:


> Just got mine yesterday, hoping to finish it up later today.


Boom, conformation. Squeal free gain fest. Nice work, I'm off to do a build report.


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## Bricksnbeatles

Nice! I just ordered a faceplate for my black eye build on Friday. Looking forward to building it


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## THeHammer82

I’ll be interested in getting a buffer board when they’re in stock.


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## vigilante398

If you've purchased one (or more) of these boards, you're entitled to a replacement 3PDT board with onboard buffer, free of charge. PM me your order number and I'll get one (or however many were ordered) in the mail for you.

If your shipping address has changed since your purchase, please email me from the email associated with the order so I can update it in my fancy website system and keep everything organized. I have more than enough of these in stock to cover all the Black Eye boards I've sold, but I won't be selling any new Black Eye boards until these buffer boards have gone out to everyone who needs them.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

Ahhh my excuse to order an echo foxtrot at last.


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## vigilante398

Mentaltossflycoon said:


> Ahhh my excuse to order an echo foxtrot at last.


Yup, it was on my to-do list to remind you today, so consider yourself reminded


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## Mentaltossflycoon

Evidently I lurk here enough that it was unnecessary. Lol.


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## Feral Feline

Mentaltossflycoon said:


> Ahhh my excuse to order an echo foxtrot at last.



Yup, thanks for the EF reminder. 

Quite busy lately. *sigh*


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## vigilante398

I've sent out a handful of boards already, but wanted to bump in case anyone didn't see it:

I have buffer boards on hand to swap into Black Eye builds for those that want them. These are free of charge if you already purchased a Black Eye board, message me or email me with your order number and I'll get it out to you.


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## Bricksnbeatles

vigilante398 said:


> I've sent out a handful of boards already, but wanted to bump in case anyone didn't see it:
> 
> I have buffer boards on hand to swap into Black Eye builds for those that want them. These are free of charge if you already purchased a Black Eye board, message me or email me with your order number and I'll get it out to you.


Planning on ordering an Echo Foxtrot board this weekend- should I just put it in the order comments, or should I still email you too.


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## vigilante398

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Planning on ordering an Echo Foxtrot board this weekend- should I just put it in the order comments, or should I still email you too.


You can just write it in the comments of that order, I can ship them together.


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## Bricksnbeatles

vigilante398 said:


> You can just write it in the comments of that order, I can ship them together.


Awesome, thanks! Gonna try coming up with a graphic for the EF so I can put the enclosure in my next tayda order.


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## vigilante398

Has anyone that I've sent the new batch of buffer boards to had a chance to wire it in and test it yet? I didn't change the design at all from the first batch so I figured they would be the same, but I just tried one tonight and it's giving a super weak, thin-sounding signal. I've checked this both with a Black Eye and just the buffer going straight into the amp and I'm getting the same results.

I'm going to halt shipping of these until I've had confirmation that these are working the same as the previous batch. If not I need to complain to the manufacturer, because something may be wrong.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

I am not sure what they're supposed to sound like but this makes me want to pull mine and try it without the buffer.... I wouldn't call mine weak or thin but perhaps it's not as big as it's supposed to be? You have me second guessing my confirmation of functioning. I'll report back later.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

Ok, apologies. I just swapped and yeah... the buffer was choking it out. It's suddenly sounding gigantic and giving me some squeal with the gain cranked. Holy jeebz it sounds good now though. I guess we'll try the next one. Not throwing the buffered switch in the trash yet or anything.


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## music6000

Mentaltossflycoon said:


> Ok, apologies. I just swapped and yeah... the buffer was choking it out. It's suddenly sounding gigantic and giving me some squeal with the gain cranked. Holy jeebz it sounds good now though. I guess we'll try the next one. Not throwing the buffered switch in the trash yet or anything.


We are not alone, even the PCB suppliers can get it wrong somehow between batches!!!
Robert has been bitten a few times on repeat orders!


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## Paradox916

This is like GOT where you get emotionally invested in a character and then they keep getting executed  


I’m in to deep to give up now… I know you will figure it out.


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## Deperduci

been 2-3 months sinceI plugged my BE in.. it was thinnish last time.. watch now it howls and squeals like rutting..

the 'fun' parts of larger manufacturers, they buy at the truck load from who's cheapest.


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## vigilante398

Mentaltossflycoon said:


> Ok, apologies. I just swapped and yeah... the buffer was choking it out. It's suddenly sounding gigantic and giving me some squeal with the gain cranked. Holy jeebz it sounds good now though. I guess we'll try the next one. Not throwing the buffered switch in the trash yet or anything.


Okay, thanks for verifying for me. I checked through the order to make sure the files were the exact same ones I sent in last time, zero changes. I guess I'm writing a nasty email to the PCB place and trying again. I apologize again for the inconvenience to everyone that has one inbound, I will get this sorted. Again.


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## Mentaltossflycoon

I don't mind guinea pigging again when you do. And this time I know what it's supposed to sound like!


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## Dan0h

Did anyone ever try the ferrite bead trick @music6000 mentioned. I have some coming and thought I’d give it a try. So just jump one in the power + and then another one on the input ?


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## THeHammer82

I was just about to request the board but I see there are some issues with the current batch. Hopefully the supplier makes it right.


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## Guilherme Collateral

Here is mine! Worked at first try, no need for buffers, got no self oscillation, it's just noise with the gain full blown. Sounds great!


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## MichaelW

Guilherme Collateral said:


> Here is mine! Worked at first try, no need for buffers, got no self oscillation, it's just noise with the gain full blown. Sounds great!
> 
> View attachment 36669


How did you do the vents?


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## jimilee

MichaelW said:


> How did you do the vents?


That looks like the enclosure you can buy with the pedal, in which case, the vents are already cut.


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## Guilherme Collateral

MichaelW said:


> How did you do the vents?


@jimilee is right! I got the enclosure from Sushi Box with the PCB! Looks sweet, I could never do this by hand 😂


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## Gordo

Marshall branded tubes with matching colored wire pretty much tips it in for the win.  Nicely done


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## Guilherme Collateral

Gordo said:


> Marshall branded tubes with matching colored wire pretty much tips it in for the win.  Nicely done


Thanks a lot man! Being a pedal builder is the best possible professional experience for a person with OCD, hahaha


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## Dustin

vigilante398 said:


> A little while ago in the "Must Build" thread I mentioned my love for the Soldano GTO and was asked if there were any PCBs out there in the world for it. I don't usually work in through-hole, but I decided to take a swing at it. Usually I make a little daughter board for the tube sockets so they can mount at a right angle to the main PCB, but mounting the whole PCB vertically in the chassis like this makes it way easier to build. I'll try to get it boxed up later this month so I can see how it fits, but first I wanted to hear how it sounds. Tayda ran out of the 22nF high voltage caps I planned to use so there's one random yellow film cap, but other than that I'm pleased with the look.
> 
> Also I'm pleased that aside from the tube sockets and the ribbon cable, every single part on this board can be purchased cheap from Tayda.
> 
> View attachment 27022
> View attachment 27023
> View attachment 27024
> View attachment 27025


That looks tiiigght and fun!!  I’d definitely try that out!


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## THeHammer82

Any updates on the buffer board?


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## vigilante398

THeHammer82 said:


> Any updates on the buffer board?


Kind of. The manufacturer insisted something was wrong with my files and that it wasn't something on their end, so I'm going to have to eat the loss and order again. I'm planning to triple-check my files and reorder soon.

I did go back and play with the AMZ amplike buffer, which I have 100 of lying around, and it completely fixed the squeal in a misbehaving build I had, but it was a different layout than this Black Eye. I do have a misbehaving Black Eye that I want to try this buffer in to see if it helps. I'll try to get that checked out this weekend to see if it helps enough to be worth sending out to others to try.


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## vigilante398

Super quick update: the AMZ buffer I have sitting around did not help at all, but the order has been placed for more Cornish buffer boards (making absolute certain to use the file from the first order, not the second) and they should be here before the end of the year. I will of course keep everyone posted.

Also for the future I'm trying out a new layout with the tubes mounted on daughter boards on headers so the main PCB is horizontal in the enclosure, which gives a lot more room for placement and routing. The prototype for that board will come in the same order as the Cornish buffers, so another thing for me to keep you posted on.


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## THeHammer82

vigilante398 said:


> Super quick update: the AMZ buffer I have sitting around did not help at all, but the order has been placed for more Cornish buffer boards (making absolute certain to use the file from the first order, not the second) and they should be here before the end of the year. I will of course keep everyone posted.
> 
> Also for the future I'm trying out a new layout with the tubes mounted on daughter boards on headers so the main PCB is horizontal in the enclosure, which gives a lot more room for placement and routing. The prototype for that board will come in the same order as the Cornish buffers, so another thing for me to keep you posted on.


Thanks for the update and I hope you had a Merry Christmas!


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## vigilante398

New PCBs came in today, updates to come tonight I expect.


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## vigilante398

So the good news is I have a new layout for Black Eye that was laid out more carefully such that it does not need a buffer in front and operates without squealing even with the gain dimed.

The bad news is my third order of Cornish buffer PCBs are not working. I'm going to start over with the design and try to make it work. The revised Black Eye PCB will be a great option for the future, but I still want to get a fix available for those that already have boards, especially since the new layout is different enough that the enclosures will not be compatible between the two.


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## Dan0h

vigilante398 said:


> So the good news is I have a new layout for Black Eye that was laid out more carefully such that it does not need a buffer in front and operates without squealing even with the gain dimed.
> 
> The bad news is my third order of Cornish buffer PCBs are not working. I'm going to start over with the design and try to make it work. The revised Black Eye PCB will be a great option for the future, but I still want to get a fix available for those that already have boards, especially since the new layout is different enough that the enclosures will not be compatible between the two.


Thank you for sticking to it. I speak for my self but most likely all of us that it means a lot that you are going through the cost and time to make things right for your customers. I can see why Robert granted you Verified Vendor status.


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## Feral Feline

Your efforts are indeed appreciated, Vigilante398.


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