# Angry Andy Plus - Bug or feature?



## MichaelW (Mar 20, 2022)

Hey guys, 

I just finished building an Angry Andy and not sure if the boost is working correctly.

In non-boost mode, everything works fine.

In Boost mode, it works as its supposed to when the gain knob is 12 o'clock or less. 

But if I turn the gain up any higher it starts squealing like a stuck pig. Not "good" feedback mind you, but uncontrollable squealing when there's no note being played. If I play through the squeal it works but as soon as I mute the strings its starts squealing. 

If I put my finger on the boost stompswitch the squealing stops. I'm wondering if there's a ground issue?

But then why would it work fine when the gain is dialed back to noon? I searched and found a couple of old threads describing the same issue with no apparent resolution. Does this pedal just really need a noise gate after it at the highest gain settings?

Thanks in advance!

M-


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## carlinb17 (Mar 20, 2022)

Does the boost pot have a cover? And it does sound like a grounding issue or perhaps a bad foot switch?


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## PJS (Mar 21, 2022)

I had to make sure the switch was really well grounded to the case on mine


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## Sturdag Lagernathy (Mar 21, 2022)

FYI, the one I built ages ago did not do that.. I remember it being a pretty cool pedal, great tone.


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## MichaelW (Mar 21, 2022)

carlinb17 said:


> Does the boost pot have a cover? And it does sound like a grounding issue or perhaps a bad foot switch?


Yup all the pots have condoms on. I'll have to dig into it some more and see if I can locate a ground issue.


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## MichaelW (Mar 21, 2022)

PJS said:


> I had to make sure the switch was really well grounded to the case on mine


I'll check that, thanks!


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## MichaelW (Mar 30, 2022)

Revisiting this issue, I checked the boost stomp grounding and it all looks ok. 
I was reading a different troubleshooting thread about a similar issue and it was suggested to use a shielded cable for the output cable. I thought I might try that next. Can I just use a regular guitar efx patch cable? I have some thin Mogami lying about. Would I need to connect the ground shielding to a ground pad? TIA


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## PJS (Mar 31, 2022)

Even thin guitar cable is going to be pretty thick, but yes it will work.  Ground the shield at one end


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## MichaelW (Mar 31, 2022)

PJS said:


> Even thin guitar cable is going to be pretty thick, but yes it will work.  Ground the shield at one end


I tried it without grounding and it didn't make a difference, I'll try grounding the shielding. I have a feeling it might be the BS170 but not sure how to verify without replacing it. I have a second pcb, I may just build a second one. I think I need to build a probe and step up my trouble shooting skills.


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## PJS (Mar 31, 2022)

A probe will definitely tell you which part of the circuit is generating the noise.  Won't necessarily tell you why, but if you can narrow down where then that will help with the why.


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## MichaelW (Mar 31, 2022)

Ok, I re-did the I/O cables with shielded cables. (Mogami W2314) and grounded both sides to the jack tab. No joy, still squeals like a pig in boost mode when the gain is higher than noon. Something else going on besides EM interference or ground. There's probably a bad component in there some where.


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## PJS (Apr 1, 2022)

There is possibility of bad solder too.  We haven't seen the solder side of the board.  It would be pretty normal for a double sided board for the solder to have wicked through the holes so you can see a bit on the non-solder side.  There are a lot of joints there where you can't see any solder on the component side.  No saying it's impossible to get a good joint without it wicking through, but definitely check all your solder - especially for the boost part.


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## MichaelW (Apr 1, 2022)

PJS said:


> There is possibility of bad solder too.  We haven't seen the solder side of the board.  It would be pretty normal for a double sided board for the solder to have wicked through the holes so you can see a bit on the non-solder side.  There are a lot of joints there where you can't see any solder on the component side.  No saying it's impossible to get a good joint without it wicking through, but definitely check all your solder - especially for the boost part.


I'll pull the board out next and check the back solder joints. I'm gonna need to do that anyway to try swapping Q1.  Waiting for a red 125b to arrive to build the second pcb I have. I also ordered some RG174 from Amazon. That Mogami W2314 looks a little ridiculous in the pedal . 
(Although I had to buy 17ft feet of the RG174......probably a lifetime supply hahah).


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## PJS (Apr 1, 2022)

Stick at it.  It's a nice sounding pedal and definitely can be done without the squealing


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## MichaelW (Apr 1, 2022)

PJS said:


> Stick at it.  It's a nice sounding pedal and definitely can be done without the squealing


Absolutely, I'm gonna figure it out eventually. Actually good for me to learn how to troubleshoot.


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## MichaelW (Apr 2, 2022)

Ok, couldn't sleep, was up early and decided to futz around some more with this pedal.
I unboxed it, reflowed every solder joint. Cleaned the pcb as best I could with IPA in it's completed state.
I removed the BS170, socketed Q1 and put a new BS170 in.
No joy, still has the same issue.

One thing I didn't think to try before buttoning it all back up is to replace the Boost 3PDT.
Or possibly replace the B1M Boost pot. Before I do either of those, I'm going to build a new one first.


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## PJS (Apr 2, 2022)

At the very least these joints look as if they need re-soldering.


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## matt3310 (Apr 3, 2022)




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## music6000 (Apr 3, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> Ok, I re-did the I/O cables with shielded cables. (Mogami W2314) and grounded both sides to the jack tab. No joy, still squeals like a pig in boost mode when the gain is higher than noon. Something else going on besides EM interference or ground. There's probably a bad component in there some where.


1. Definitely a lack of solder penetration!
2. BS170 is prone to damage from static electricity????

You wouldn't be the First if it's the Tayda Pot causing the issue, I wont use them!


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## MichaelW (Apr 3, 2022)

Thanks guys! I'll try fixing those joints and what if it helps.


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## MichaelW (Mar 20, 2022)

Hey guys, 

I just finished building an Angry Andy and not sure if the boost is working correctly.

In non-boost mode, everything works fine.

In Boost mode, it works as its supposed to when the gain knob is 12 o'clock or less. 

But if I turn the gain up any higher it starts squealing like a stuck pig. Not "good" feedback mind you, but uncontrollable squealing when there's no note being played. If I play through the squeal it works but as soon as I mute the strings its starts squealing. 

If I put my finger on the boost stompswitch the squealing stops. I'm wondering if there's a ground issue?

But then why would it work fine when the gain is dialed back to noon? I searched and found a couple of old threads describing the same issue with no apparent resolution. Does this pedal just really need a noise gate after it at the highest gain settings?

Thanks in advance!

M-


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## MichaelW (Apr 4, 2022)

Ok, so I built Angry Andy #2 yesterday. Triple checked my component values, triple checked every solder joint for proper flow through.

And......it does the EXACT same thing heh......

I used RG174 shielded cable for the I/O cables, (even though shielding these didn't help the first one.

In the pic below is the setting where the squealing/feedback begins. Gain knobs needs to be above 1 o'clock (top right knob)
and the Boost level needs to be above 2 o'clock (lower right knob).

I think it's unlikely I would have made the exact same mistake twice on two builds spread 3 weeks apart, so I'm going to assume for the moment it's not a bad solder joint or wrong component. 

Just thinking back on where I sourced the BS170's. I've gotten 2 batches, one from Tayda and another from GuitarPCB. Unfortunately, I mixed them all up in the same static bag, but I could probably sort them by lot number. 

The IC's (NE5532) also came from 2 sources, one batch from Tayda and the other from Mouser, but I'm NOT sure which ones I used for which of these pedals.

The other possibility is that it's my power source. However, my whole rig runs off a Furman power conditioner. Maybe it's proximity to my computer monitors or something, but I'm planning to isolate everything today, plug an amp in on the other side of the house with just guitar, pedal and amp and see if it still does the squealing. 

Last thing I did last night was order a real JHS AT Plus....heh....gotta love Amazon Prime! I'm going to see if the real thing does it too, in which case it would confirm that it's my environment and not my build.


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## MichaelW (Apr 4, 2022)

Adding to the story. Just for S&G's I swapped out the BS170 for a 2N7000, same problem, so I don't think I have a bum batch of BS170's.

I swapped the LM833 for an LM358. Same problem, so I don't think I have a bad batch of LM833's. Also I double checked, I got the LM833's from GuitarPedalParts.com, not Tayda.

I'll try the pedal on a different power circuit in the house later today and see if that makes any difference.


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## music6000 (Apr 4, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> Adding to the story. Just for S&G's I swapped out the BS170 for a 2N7000, same problem, so I don't think I have a bum batch of BS170's.
> 
> I swapped the NE5532 for an LM358. Same problem, so I don't think I have a bad batch of NE5532's. Also I double checked, I got the NE5532's from GuitarPedalParts.com, not Tayda.
> 
> I'll try the pedal on a different power circuit in the house later today and see if that makes any difference.


Can you put up a GOOD picture of PCB & Resistors for this Build!


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## music6000 (Apr 4, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Can you put up a GOOD picture of PCB & Resistors for this Build!


Are you sure they are 100pF Capacitors, I've never seen these before in a build ????
Why do they have 10 on them ????


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## MichaelW (Apr 4, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Can you put up a GOOD picture of PCB & Resistors for this Build!


My mistake, I meant to say LM833 not NE5532 in the previous posts.

These are the 100pf's I used. My meter can't read 100pf so I have to assume they're good.


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## music6000 (Apr 4, 2022)

That's not what you used in Photo's on your last build????


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## MichaelW (Apr 4, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Are you sure they are 100pF Capacitors, I've never seen these before in a build ????
> Why do they have 10 on them ????


Ahhh, you're referring to the first build, duh....

They are Kemet 100pf film caps. I got them from Mouser.

I used MLCC's for the second build. Didn't make a difference.


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## music6000 (Apr 4, 2022)

You may want to read this:








						Angry Andy Plus - PedalPCB.com
					

Compare to JHS AT+




					www.pedalpcb.com
				



Read the REVIEWS, especially the first one!


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## MichaelW (Apr 4, 2022)

music6000 said:


> You may want to read this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm....yah so maybe it IS operating correctly. Like I said, it's only when the gain is cranked AND the Boost is cranked. 

Realistically I can't see anyone ever using this pedal that way, but then I'm not a high gain player, this is for a friend of mine.

I'd think if you wanted more gain you'd get something like a Boss MetalZone, but then wtf do I know, I'm just a blues noodler heh.

Well, I should have the real JHS AT Plus here in a couple of days, I'll see how the real thing works. Maybe dialing the boost is just a setting that needs to be nuanced.

So one thing I did try, since this is a "Boost AFTER overdrive design" I tried using a couple of boost pedals after the AA+. They all work fine, it sounds particularly good at high gain settings then boosting with a Greengage in clean boost mode after it.


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## music6000 (Apr 4, 2022)

I find this with most JHS pedals, He nearly gets it right, they always fall short.
I own alot of Original pedals & not one JHS!!!!


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## MichaelW (Apr 4, 2022)

music6000 said:


> I find this with most JHS pedals, He nearly gets it right, they always fall short.
> I own alot of Original pedals & not one JHS!!!!


That's pretty funny actually. I've sold every JHS pedal I own hahah. I'm not planning to keep the AT Plus, just verify the behavior then return it.

I do have the PCB for the "Van Pelt" drive. I owned the JHS Charlie Brown for a while. It wasn't worth the $200 for me to keep it. But building one to use occasionally is something I'm down for. I don't think it sounds anything like a JTM45, as it's supposed to, but its still a cool sounding "amp-ish" pedal.


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## NSJ (Apr 6, 2022)

Maybe a silly question: but how’re you powering it? I’ve experienced this issue with a daisy chained wall wart supply when testing the pedal - both footswitches engaged with drive and boost past 3 o’ clock. As you said, that is way too much drive for my taste as well and a dirty power supply could’ve caused the squealing. I’ve never ran into this since as I’ve isolated supply on my board and that much gain is unusable for me.


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## MichaelW (Apr 6, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Maybe a silly question: but how’re you powering it? I’ve experienced this issue with a daisy chained wall wart supply when testing the pedal - both footswitches engaged with drive and boost past 3 o’ clock. As you said, that is way too much drive for my taste as well and a dirty power supply could’ve caused the squealing. I’ve never ran into this since as I’ve isolated supply on my board and that much gain is unusable for me.


Not a silly question at all, I actually tried it with a dedicated Boss 300ma wall wart and took it out of my board (which has an unregulated PS, need to address that).  

So here's some interesting new information. I got the actual JHS @ Plus pedal in yesterday and tried it side by side.
The JHS pedal does indeed feedback at high boost and gain settings, but it does not "squeal" like my 2 AA+'s do.

A few interesting observations:

1. The JHS pedal is a warmer sounding pedal, almost sounds a bit "muffled" compared to the AA+ builds.

2. The "Boost" feature of the JHS pedal does virtually nothing. I mean it's a "boost" in name only. It doesn't really boost the gain channel very much. It might be because there is so much gain already in the gain channel. I was incorrect in thinking this was a "boost after gain" arrangement, the boost side actually comes first.

3. I can "eq" match the AA+ builds to the JHS pedal by dialing the presence and eq knobs back about 20% (both my AA+ builds are much brighter than the JHS). When I do that, the squealing problem is much more mitigated but it's still there. 

4. I was actuality thinking it might be "dirty power" from my house circuit, although my guitar rig all runs off a Furman power conditioner.

I have a couple more things to try to isolate the problem but I'm beginning to think that it might simply need a few tweaks to the components to tame the high end a little bit.  At this point this is an academic exercise for me heh, it's way too much gain for me. At those gain levels it all sounds like "mush" to me with no real definition in my chording. I suppose if I played like Andy Timmons, I could make it sound good hahah.


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## music6000 (Apr 6, 2022)

I wou


MichaelW said:


> Not a silly question at all, I actually tried it with a dedicated Boss 300ma wall wart and took it out of my board (which has an unregulated PS, need to address that).
> 
> So here's some interesting new information. I got the actual JHS @ Plus pedal in yesterday and tried it side by side.
> The JHS pedal does indeed feedback at high boost and gain settings, but it does not "squeal" like my 2 AA+'s do.
> ...


I would try increasing the 100pf's up to 220pf for starters.
Try C6 first. See if it's for the better, then also change C3.


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## fig (Apr 6, 2022)

Great googly-moogly! Are they multiplying?


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## MichaelW (Apr 6, 2022)

fig said:


> Great googly-moogly! Are they multiplying?


That's what happens when you leave a bunch of LM833's in a box un-supervised......


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## NSJ (Apr 6, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> Not a silly question at all, I actually tried it with a dedicated Boss 300ma wall wart and took it out of my board (which has an unregulated PS, need to address that).
> 
> So here's some interesting new information. I got the actual JHS @ Plus pedal in yesterday and tried it side by side.
> The JHS pedal does indeed feedback at high boost and gain settings, but it does not "squeal" like my 2 AA+'s do.
> ...


The boost is indeed quite subtle as it adds gain to the drive circuit. This is due to it being a pre-boost, as you mentioned. You could rewire boost to be post-boost easily.The boost circuit actually reminds me of the AMZ MOSFET booster by jack orman. http://www.muzique.com/schem/mosfet.htm
The drive circuit is exact copy of mi audio crunch box (captain crunch) sans addition of 1k resistor in feedback loop. This probably keeps drive consistent but disables guitar vol knob cleanup, unlike crunchbox. 

I like to use the boost side as a standalone push to my amp. It has a really nice mids centered crunch if you set amp just at or slightly past breakup. On a clean amp the boost reminds me of a klon boost with a very polished mid hump.. atleast on my setup I hear it that way YMMV. 

I absolutely agree with your “AA+ is brighter” analysis. You could try mods suggested by music6000. What worked for me to take that chime away was a JRC4558. The LM833 is a very hi-fi chip with lots of good definition - but a tad “too defined” for my taste. I prefer the highly colored transistor stacked drives and distortions over hi-fi IC ones. Overall it’s a great sounding build. 

One day I’d like to wire it as one or other effect with a single footswitch instead of two extremely close ones. Currently, I hit both to achieve that but that’s not very refined. If anyone has a wiring diagram they can link here that’d be cool.


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## Nic (Oct 10, 2022)

When you say squeal, do you mean going to feedback ? Mine was having a lot of feedback. It was my first build, thought i'd come back to it later... well later was today. 

First, i used a big enclosure to have a spot for a battery, and for my first build, it was a total fail due to bad planning . But i used wires to move the pots apart. All was kinda loose. I twisted the wires together, tucked the in and output wires on the sides and guess what, no more feedback. That thing sounds so agressive but no more goes totallyout of control. Like some said, last 25% of boost knob brings some changes in the sound but that feels 100% more like normal.


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## MichaelW (Oct 10, 2022)

Nic said:


> When you say squeal, do you mean going to feedback ? Mine was having a lot of feedback. It was my first build, thought i'd come back to it later... well later was today.
> 
> First, i used a big enclosure to have a spot for a battery, and for my first build, it was a total fail due to bad planning . But i used wires to move the pots apart. All was kinda loose. I twisted the wires together, tucked the in and output wires on the sides and guess what, no more feedback. That thing sounds so agressive but no more goes totallyout of control. Like some said, last 25% of boost knob brings some changes in the sound but that feels 100% more like normal.


Hmmmm, interesting. Do you have some pictures? I'd like to see what you did.
Not really feedback, more like a banshee screaming after it stubbed it's toe.....(do banshee's even have toes?)


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## Nic (Oct 10, 2022)

It's still open, I'll snap a pic later!
I also rotated my jacks to have the in/out wires away from the board.


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## MichaelW (Mar 20, 2022)

Hey guys, 

I just finished building an Angry Andy and not sure if the boost is working correctly.

In non-boost mode, everything works fine.

In Boost mode, it works as its supposed to when the gain knob is 12 o'clock or less. 

But if I turn the gain up any higher it starts squealing like a stuck pig. Not "good" feedback mind you, but uncontrollable squealing when there's no note being played. If I play through the squeal it works but as soon as I mute the strings its starts squealing. 

If I put my finger on the boost stompswitch the squealing stops. I'm wondering if there's a ground issue?

But then why would it work fine when the gain is dialed back to noon? I searched and found a couple of old threads describing the same issue with no apparent resolution. Does this pedal just really need a noise gate after it at the highest gain settings?

Thanks in advance!

M-


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## Nic (Oct 10, 2022)

The idea was to have the boost knob over the footswitch.


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## MichaelW (Oct 10, 2022)

Awesome, look forward to seeing it. 
I've built 3 Angry Andy Plus's, used shielded cable on all of them. All of them squeal like aforementioned banshee. (Note: it only squeals when the boost is on and the gain is above noon, otherwise it works normal).

I even went out and bought a retail JHS one and it didn't squeal. (And I promptly returned it, gotta love Amazon Prime!)

One thing I did notice is that the Angry Andy is brighter than the retail AT Plus. And a bit more aggressive sounding. Which I found interesting. 

One of them I built for a buddy of mine. I wound up building him a regular Andy, not the plus, without the boost and it's quiet as a mouse and works really well. He loves it. I have not touched mine since I gave up on the squeal issue.


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## MichaelW (Oct 10, 2022)

Nic said:


> The idea was to have the boost knob over the footswitch.
> 
> View attachment 33699
> 
> View attachment 33700


Great looking graphics! I love it!

The only possible thing I see that could make a difference is that the I/o wires are pushed way out. But you'd think that by using shielded cable that would have solved it right?


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## Nic (Oct 10, 2022)

It should I guess, need to experiment this on my ocelot. But just touching them made a difference for me, same with the pot wires but that is not a problem in your case.


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## MichaelW (Oct 10, 2022)

Nic said:


> It should I guess, need to experiment this on my ocelot. But just touching them made a difference for me, same with the pot wires but that is not a problem in your case.


Tbh, I gave up because it's really not a type of gain that I normally use. I went down this rabbit hole trying to build it for my buddy. 
If you like this pedal, I'd also recommend the Mojito Deluxe designed by our own @Chuck D. Bones. It's got a similar chewy distortion and can get pretty heavy without any of the issues of the Andy. Also the boost function on the Mojito actually works....


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## Nic (Oct 10, 2022)

I've read good reviews on the Mojito. It's not my type of pedal, sounds good I guess but not my type of sound. 

I wanted to make that one work to be able to sell it.


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