# Space Heater. TUBES!



## Dan0h (Aug 20, 2022)

Was so excited to build this one. I built the Black eye with all Tayda components, so I decided to do this one with all Mouser components.

Thing sounds amazing, I actually like it better than the black eye. Gushing with glassyness goodness. Super loud! I love it. Going to have find something to kick off my board because this bad boy is going on it.

Now for the dingle berries… first thing this one even more so than the black eye is a super tight fit. So tight in fact that if you don’t use those lumburg jacks you have to ream out the pot holes to nudge the board up. You can see in the photo my clearance is literally mm’s. You also have to be very careful of solder on the sides of the board grounding out  on the enclosure. The components are super close together and some are very close to the edge. I’m thinking @vigilante398 must be an engineer for his day job because this thing is super efficient and tidy when it comes to space but also requires you to be on top of your game to build it and fit it.

And the squeal. So this is really a non issue for me but it does do some crazy robot language squealing when the left knob is at 90% and above. Guitar volume all the way down doesn’t stop it. Buffer in front doesn’t stop it. The good news is I will never play the pedal at that high of a level so no biggie. And other than that it’s super clean and noise free. I was disappointed that going the extra $$ Mouser route didn’t give me a squeal free pedal though.

Kudos @vigilante398 2 for two winners in my book. I’m going to use your power section schematic and tinker around on my Proto board and try to make a Magnetron with a tube instead of transistor. If you guys don’t hear from me for a while I must have zapped myself.

Man I love the sound of tubes.


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## Feral Feline (Aug 20, 2022)

MULLARD! 😻

A Mullard Magnetron... 😻😻😻😻😻
Can't wait to hear about the Magnetron tinkering.


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## music6000 (Aug 20, 2022)

Dan0h said:


> Was so excited to build this one. I built the Black eye with all Tayda components, so I decided to do this one with all Mouser components.
> 
> Thing sounds amazing, I actually like it better than the black eye. Gushing with glassyness goodness. Super loud! I love it. Going to have find something to kick off my board because this bad boy is going on it.
> 
> ...


Cool Build!
I have around 8 tube based pedals, mostly starved plate but I find the 12AX7/ECC83S has too much Gain or Bloom for my needs.
I mainly run 12AU7 so I can crank it more for smoother sustain'
My Sib Cuda has a 12AT7 in it now & I also converted it to LT type spec after speaking to Rick Hamel from Sib!

This is why I like Pictures on Builds & Troubleshooting!
I read this about the ECC803 below that may cause some of your issue, the other thing could be the Tubes you have maybe Microphonic?
This may also be a factor for the Black Eye issue???? :

A premium quality ECC803 tube that replaces any 12AX7 / ECC83 tube type. The JJ ECC803-S is a warm, full sounding tube, with high-gain. It's great sounding in hifi amps and guitar amps (guitar players see note below).
*Note:* Because this tube has a long plate structure it is susceptible to excessive microphonics and is therefore not recommended for use in combo amps or high gain stages. For these amps the JJ ECC83-S is a better choice.





						JJ ECC803S / 12AX7 Audio Tubes - www.thetubestore.com
					

Buy JJ ECC803S / 12AX7 vacuum tubes online, in stock and ready to ship! Find reviews, data sheets and specs to upgrade your tube amplifier.




					www.thetubestore.com


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## Dan0h (Aug 20, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Cool Build!
> I have around 8 tube based pedals, mostly starved plate but I find the 12AX7/ECC83S has too much Gain or Bloom for my needs.
> I mainly run 12AU7 so I can crank it more for smoother sustain'
> My Sib Cuda has a 12AT7 in it now & I also converted it to LT type spec after speaking to Rick Hamel from Sib!
> ...


Thank you, and I love AT7’s as well. I didn’t think about the longer the plate the more chance of microphonics but it really makes sense. The RCA in my black eye build is very used and slightly wonky, it could be the cause of the oscillation but with a buffer in front there is zero oscillation so no worries. This build the oscillation is different it really sounds more like a robot voice and only when the gain is maxed out. Put a Death by audio or zvex logo on the pedal you’d think it was meant to be that way.


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## fig (Aug 20, 2022)

Tubular groove! We have a _new_ fever, and the only thing that’s gonna cure it is _more_ tube.

Tight is right! When I got my Sushi Box, at first I thought the SH pcb was an alternative 3PDT breakout, until I looked at the screen print. 

Great build sir!


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## Dan0h (Aug 20, 2022)

thewintersoldier said:


> Man, this one bums me out because it's the one project I wanted to build of his. When I read that it was making noise I guess I'm gonna have to wait till it's sorted out with what the issues are. I have extra tubes but I don't tube roll, things should do what they are supposed to like they were designed. Good build and glad you like it still.


Yeah,  I hope it gets sorted out. I know he sells a ton of pre-built pedals. Wish I knew what was going on different with the ones he is building compared to the ones some of us are building.

I went into this knowing it was version 1 type stuff so I took the risk willingly. Totally respect that others want to, and should, wait until the bugs are resolved. 

To be totally honest. My heavy water clone comes incredibly close to sounding like the Space Heater on low gain and my Mojito build comes incredibly close to the black eye on lower gain. Nothing touches the black eye at high gain that I have though. Epic. 

The sounds are not the same but “incredibly” close. Which has broken down some more walls in my mind of tube snobbery. Don’t get me wrong, I still love the fact that the electrons are jumping from metal plates inside of a glass tube and that is just ef’ing cool. But the sound can almost be replicated by non tube parts.


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## Deperduci (Aug 20, 2022)

I haven’t gotten to this board yet, but like what others have done so far. Glad yours is good Dan, hope mine turns out like this did, my BE has a voltage problem somewhere……


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## music6000 (Aug 20, 2022)

Dan0h said:


> View attachment 30975


You would be surprised how quick you can shave Aluminium with a sharp Wood Chisel!!!


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## Dan0h (Aug 21, 2022)

Update: Sadly I can not have both the Black eye and the Space heater on my board at the same time. After trying many locations and power supply options the two on the board together just doesn’t work. I get a strange sound, and I realized I’m getting what I think is DC build up on the SH foot switch. Big pops when engaging. Ugh. When one or the other is alone on the board no noises. Throwing in the towel on these together for now.


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## Harry Klippton (Aug 21, 2022)

Which one is gonna stay on your board?


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## Dan0h (Aug 21, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> Which one is gonna stay on your board?


Keeping Black eye. No footswitch pops and sounds great after a buffer.

The Space Hester also sounds amazing but I have to solve the pops and figure out what is causing the strange noises when both are in the same chain.


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## Brett (Aug 21, 2022)

Dan0h said:


> Keeping Black eye. No footswitch pops and sounds great after a buffer.
> 
> The Space Hester also sounds amazing but I have to solve the pops and figure out what is causing the strange noises when both are in the same chain.


I'm sure you've seen this already but have you tried adding pulldown resistors like shown here: http://www.muzique.com/lab/pop.htm?

I too was very curious in the Space Heater project but I may refrain until a solution is found for squealing/whining. I checked out the layout on @vigilante398's BOM page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KXgweYAuuKtLFefRiEwegBfJQtoYr3pQ/edit and your board appears to be a different layout from the build docs. The inductor is directly next to the tube on yours where it's in a different position on the build doc (albeit still very close).

Something tells me that having the inductor (and all other SMPS components) so close to the audio circuit MAY be with investigating. The inductor that the project calls for isn't shielded and I wonder if that could be causing some of the strange behavior with higher gain settings.


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## music6000 (Aug 21, 2022)

Brett said:


> I'm sure you've seen this already but have you tried adding pulldown resistors like shown here: http://www.muzique.com/lab/pop.htm?
> 
> I too was very curious in the Space Heater project but I may refrain until a solution is found for squealing/whining. I checked out the layout on @vigilante398's BOM page: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KXgweYAuuKtLFefRiEwegBfJQtoYr3pQ/edit and your board appears to be a different layout from the build docs. The inductor is directly next to the tube on yours where it's in a different position on the build doc (albeit still very close).
> 
> Something tells me that having the inductor (and all other SMPS components) so close to the audio circuit MAY be with investigating. The inductor that the project calls for isn't shielded and I wonder if that could be causing some of the strange behavior with higher gain settings.


Try some Shrink on on the Inductor?


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## Brett (Aug 21, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Try some Shrink on on the Inductor?


I'm not an expert on SMPS or inductors and I'd gladly admit that I'm wrong if someone more experienced chimes in, but I don't think applying shrink tubing on a standard inductor = shielded inductor.


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## Dan0h (Aug 21, 2022)

The inductor I got from mouser is twice the height and came wrapped vs the Tayda one which was shorter and had the coil exposed. These boards are very tight quarters so things are close. I still think it’s the chip. And the TLC555’s will be here Tuesday.
I hope the fact that these do sound absolutely delicious doesn’t slip by. The squeal is annoying and needs to be fixed but it’s really only at the highest gain settings which are rip your face off anyways. I’m still a sushi box fan. And support finding the fix.


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## Brett (Aug 21, 2022)

Dan0h said:


> The inductor I got from mouser is twice the height and came wrapped vs the Tayda one which was shorter and had the coil exposed. These boards are very tight quarters so things are close. I still think it’s the chip. And the TLC555’s will be here Tuesday.
> I hope the fact that these do sound absolutely delicious doesn’t slip by. The squeal is annoying and needs to be fixed but it’s really only at the highest gain settings which are rip your face off anyways. I’m still a sushi box fan. And support finding the fix.


I'm sure it's a great sounding pedal and it's awesome that you enjoy the tone so much. I'll keep watching these in hope that @vigilante398 figures out where the problem lies. I'd love to put a valve pedal on my board but I'd really like to see where this all goes before I pull the trigger.

Given that this board doesn't have a voltage regulator for the heaters, I assume that you're powering this with a 12V supply?


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## Dan0h (Aug 21, 2022)

Brett said:


> I'm sure it's a great sounding pedal and it's awesome that you enjoy the tone so much. I'll keep watching these in hope that @vigilante398 figures out where the problem lies. I'd love to put a valve pedal on my board but I'd really like to see where this all goes before I pull the trigger.
> 
> Given that this board doesn't have a voltage regulator for the heaters, I assume that you're powering this with a 12V supply?


9v. You can run with 12v but 9 does the job. And I agree, once it’s resolved if I can retro my build I might build another one.


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## Brett (Aug 21, 2022)

Dan0h said:


> 9v. You can run with 12v but 9 does the job. And I agree, once it’s resolved if I can retro my build I might build another one.


Have you tried it with a 12V supply? I only ask because my understanding is that tubes like to see either ~6.3V or ~12.6V heater voltages.


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## Dan0h (Aug 21, 2022)

Brett said:


> Have you tried it with a 12V supply? I only ask because my understanding is that tubes like to see either ~6.3V or ~12.6V heater voltages.


I have not but I can and reply back if there is any difference.


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## vigilante398 (Aug 21, 2022)

Brett said:


> Have you tried it with a 12V supply? I only ask because my understanding is that tubes like to see either ~6.3V or ~12.6V heater voltages.


The way these boards are designed, the tube heaters take the input supply directly to the heaters in parallel, so they "want" 12.6V in that configuration. It turns out 9V is enough to get them hot enough to pass signal though, and is a lot more convenient. There's nothing wrong with running a 12V supply into it, it will just run noticeably warmer.


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## Brett (Aug 22, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> The way these boards are designed, the tube heaters take the input supply directly to the heaters in parallel, so they "want" 12.6V in that configuration. It turns out 9V is enough to get them hot enough to pass signal though, and is a lot more convenient. There's nothing wrong with running a 12V supply into it, it will just run noticeably warmer.


Thank you for clarifying, @vigilante398! I do hope that you continue to offer these types of projects for DIY and that the root cause(s) of the oscillation are determined.


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## Dan0h (Aug 23, 2022)

Ok, so I swapped in a TLC555 chip and I know it doesn’t make sense but the pedal seems louder! I know it was loud to begin with but maybe this chip is pushing slightly higher voltage to the tube?

Either way it’s louder and bigger sounding. I think I will stick with the TLC555 vs the Ne555. The odd part is now if I don’t have the buffer in front I get squeal on higher level and higher gain settings. With buffer In Front zero squeal but when I max the gain I get that weird robot squeal but I really think it’s due to the tube not handling that much gain. On the Ne555 chip I had no squeal even without buffer but still had the robot squeal at max grain. Space Heater. My black eye squeals with out buffer on high no squeal at all even maxed after buffer. Also, still can’t have both of these on the same board. All sorts of weird noises when they are both in the same chain even if only one is engaged at a time.

The whole buffer thing should help the gurus that understand this stuff better than me find the cure. I’ll be rocking with buffer in front for sure and only using one on the board at a time. I like them both so much for now I will have to just swap them as needed.

I’ll have to get out the DMM and check voltages on the pins tomorrow to see if it’s my ears or if the tube is getting just a smidge more volts with the TLC555.


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## Dan0h (Aug 24, 2022)

@vigilante398 i would like to add a pull down resistor on the output of the Space heater to hopefully solve the FS popping. Best spot to connect it? On the out tip line to ground? I see the black eye basically has one but the space heater goes direct from that 600v cap to output. Thank you for any advice.


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## vigilante398 (Aug 24, 2022)

Dan0h said:


> @vigilante398 i would like to add a pull down resistor on the output of the Space heater to hopefully solve the FS popping. Best spot to connect it? On the out tip line to ground? I see the black eye basically has one but the space heater goes direct from that 600v cap to output. Thank you for any advice.


Space Heater has a master volume pot after the last coupling cap, so if you want to try adding an additional pull-down you can add it between lugs 1 and 2 of the volume pot.


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## Dan0h (Aug 24, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> Space Heater has a master volume pot after the last coupling cap, so if you want to try adding an additional pull-down you can add it between lugs 1 and 2 of the volume pot.


After digging down it seems the pot should be doing that job already so I will pass on adding another resistor. It sounds like I need to check for DC leaks across the circuit and see where it’s coming from. I don’t think I put in any caps backwards but who knows. Last resort I have one of those cool Saturn works loop pedals I could just have the SH on that which would drop it in and out of the chain resolving the pop.


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