# Shika Fuzz build on the Muffin Fuzz Board



## doublej (Jan 22, 2022)

Aside from the C1 that the Shika has any reason the Muffin Fuzz couldn't be used for the Shika build?


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## Robert (Jan 22, 2022)

The tone pot is backwards, but otherwise it's doable.

Shika PCBs should be here in a few days though.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 22, 2022)

Robert said:


> The tone pot is backwards


So that's how EQD gets such a bitchen tone!  I'm reversing all of my tone pots.


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## benny_profane (Jan 22, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> So that's how EQD gets such a bitchen tone!  I'm reversing all of my tone pots.


Hey, people seem to like the tonebenders.


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## Robert (Jan 22, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> So that's how EQD gets such a bitchen tone!  I'm reversing all of my tone pots.



Haha, that's how the Elk Sustainar that it's based on was wired as well.  This is meant to be a sonic clone of that, not really an entirely new design.

A friend of mine who has or has had damn near every variant of Muff you can imagine (original EHX and boutique) does really seem to like this one... enough so that he bought two of them.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 22, 2022)

The only thing I see that's a little different in this one is the Tone network tuning.  I thought maybe the final stage would saturate with the higher gain, but simulation says it doesn't.


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## Robert (Jan 22, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> The only thing I see that's a little different in this one is the Tone network tuning.



Probably all it is really... or maybe he just likes the purple artwork.   My buddy is a pedal user, not builder.   He doesn't know (or care) what makes things sound different. 

I didn't A/B it against anything, but it did seem a lot less harsh than a typical Muff into my Princeton.


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## Barry (Jan 22, 2022)

Robert said:


> Probably all it is really... or maybe he just likes the purple artwork.   My buddy is a pedal user, not builder.   He doesn't know (or care) what makes things sound different.
> 
> I didn't A/B it against anything, but it did seem a lot less harsh than a typical Muff into my Princeton.


I got a buddy who swears his Jan Ray is not a Timmy! Adamantly!!


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## Robert (Jan 22, 2022)

Oh yeah, I know one of those guys too... always spouts forum knowledge/hype about various boutique pedals and why this one is so much better than that one.

I've purchased and traced several pedals just to prove a point...

I show him schematics but his response is almost always the same...   "Well, I can't read schematics but I know what my ears tell me." 

Yeah?    Well, tell your ears they need to stay off of gear forums.


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## benny_profane (Jan 22, 2022)

Robert said:


> Yeah? Well, tell your ears they need to stay off of gear forums.


I think you’ve got that backward. Gear forums aren’t about that math and science nonsense. It’s about feel, man.


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## jeffwhitfield (Jan 22, 2022)

So...what exactly does the reversed tone pot do to the circuit?


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## Robert (Jan 22, 2022)

It makes the tone control sweep backwards like a Rat (CCW to increase treble).... nothing more.


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## Bricksnbeatles (Jan 22, 2022)

Robert said:


> It makes the tone control sweep backwards like a Rat (CCW to increase treble).... nothing more.


Since it’s a linear sweep between a simple high pass and low pass filter, couldn’t you build it with the correct tone sweep by simply putting the HP capacitor where the LP resistor goes, the HP resistor where there LP capacitor goes, and vice versa?


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 22, 2022)

jeffwhitfield said:


> So...what exactly does the reversed tone pot do to the circuit?


Mojo, Man, Mojo.


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## Robert (Jan 22, 2022)

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Since it’s a linear sweep between a simple high pass and low pass filter, couldn’t you build it with the correct tone sweep by simply putting the HP capacitor where the LP resistor goes, the HP resistor where there LP capacitor goes, and vice versa?



Absolutely.


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## Harry Klippton (Jan 22, 2022)




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## jeffwhitfield (Jan 22, 2022)

Robert said:


> It makes the tone control sweep backwards like a Rat (CCW to increase treble).... nothing more.


Ah, so no difference in tone other than the control gets reversed. Got it.


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## gila_crisis (Jan 28, 2022)

I've ordered the Shika pcb today, and looking forward to assemble this one!
I decided I'll do a twist to the circuits and swap R19 with a 50k pot in series with a 10k reistor to have an additional mid knob.
I'll report about the final results.
I also have an Earthbound Audio Supercollider, which is also an amazing take on the BMP, so looking forward to compare these 2.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 28, 2022)

You might bump C11 up to 6.8nF while you're at it because you'll get a deep mid scoop with R19 = 10K.  Check out TSC and you'll see what I mean.


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## gila_crisis (Jan 28, 2022)

I already did check the TSC, I know what I might encounter 😉
Actually if you check the Elk schem on the bigmuff page, that 330pF cap in the tone gives an even more dramatic mid scoop than what I'll get with my mod!


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## almondcity (Jan 28, 2022)

I built one of these. I can confirm it is a Big Muff

I still don't know what the change in tone pot to 50K does. In fact, do we know why all the pots are 50K?


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## gila_crisis (Jan 28, 2022)

almondcity said:


> I built one of these. I can confirm it is a Big Muff
> 
> I still don't know what the change in tone pot to 50K does. In fact, do we know why all the pots are 50K?


If you simulate a 50k in the tone pot with the TSC, the outcome is a slightly louder output level and a slightly different reponse. But I don't think volume and gain/sustain make a noticiable difference.


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## jimilee (Jan 28, 2022)

almondcity said:


> I built one of these. I can confirm it is a Big Muff
> 
> I still don't know what the change in tone pot to 50K does. In fact, do we know why all the pots are 50K?


Yep, from what I've seen, interviews and such, it's a Chinese knock-off of a big muff, the elf muff, or fuzz or something.


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## Coda (Jan 28, 2022)

jimilee said:


> Yep, from what I've seen, interviews and such, it's a Chinese knock-off of a big muff, the elf muff, or fuzz or something.



Elk Big Muff/Super Fuzz Sustainar, by Gakki (Japan). It was a clone of a 1972 Triangle BMP, which had a reversed tone control, and a much smaller cap (330p). Using that value, the fuzz is kinda rough. Luckily the components drifted over time, and the pedals matured into a much better sounding fuzz…


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## Feral Feline (Feb 5, 2022)

I’d like to address the other _elkephant_ in the room… 
The original Gakki was PNP silicon. 

I was expecting the Shika to have a built-in charge pump to get the negative-ground to run PNP off a regular power supply. 

I don’t see the reason to offer a different PCB if I can build this on the Muffin with added charge-pump and offboard wiring the tone pot in reverse… 😸


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## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 5, 2022)

I asked Mr. PedalPCB the same question a long time ago and the answer is that although some of us are smart enough to build different pedals on the same board by making our own BOM and so on, not everyone who buys boards here has that capability.

An upside-down version of the Muffin board would be fun because then we could build a PNP BMP without a rotten old charge pump.

The first pedal I ever traced was a PNP Triangle Muff.  Since it ran on batteries, polarity was not an issue.  There is are two or three related errors on this schematic.  Who can spot them?





Here's a weird piece of space trivia...
At the time, my Dad was an engineer on the Viking Lander Biology Instrument (google it).  He would bring home stacks of old printouts which I would use for scratch paper.  This particular page was from a test report.  If you flip the picture vertically, the header reads: "...PROCEDURE FOR BIOLOGY SEQUENCE..."


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## Coda (Feb 5, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> I’d like to address the other _elkephant_ in the room…
> The original Gakki was PNP silicon.
> 
> I was expecting the Shika to have a built-in charge pump to get the negative-ground to run PNP off a regular power supply.
> ...



I built an Elk BMS (with an ‘a’) a few months ago on a Muffin board. I started with the 330p schematic value. I then added another (660p now). Sounds better. I’m toying with the idea of swapping in the 3.4n (or whatever it is). I haven’t yet, though.

The aforementioned build also includes a toggle for the Triangle circuit the Elk was copied from (but with a reversed tone control). It’s a very extreme circuit. Lots of bass, lots of treble, very smooth…


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## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 5, 2022)

Maybe I missed something... what does the toggle sw do?


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## fig (Feb 5, 2022)

yeah, it looks like it bypasses when plugged in?


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## Coda (Feb 5, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Maybe I missed something... what does the toggle sw do?



On my build?


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## fig (Feb 5, 2022)

You have Emitters tied to ground?

Oh, that's not a switch...hmm

I give up...


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## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 5, 2022)

Coda said:


> On my build?


Yes, on your build.  I guess I muddied the water a bit when I posted my trace.


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## BuddytheReow (Feb 5, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I asked Mr. PedalPCB the same question a long time ago and the answer is that although some of us are smart enough to build different pedals on the same board by making our own BOM and so on, not everyone who buys boards here has that capability.
> 
> An upside-down version of the Muffin board would be fun because then we could build a PNP BMP without a rotten old charge pump.
> 
> ...


Q3 diodes appear to be going in one direction? I'm also scratching my head with the tone control. It's hard reading these standing on my head. Those damn PNPs!


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## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 5, 2022)

fig said:


> You have Emitters tied to ground?
> 
> Oh, that's not a switch...hmm
> 
> I give up...


1. The resistor from the top of the TONE pot to ground is missing.
2. The rotation of the TONE pot is shown backwards.
3. The TONE pot resistance is actually 100K.  I must have measured it in-circuit and you know what happens then...

I was probably definitely stoned when I traced that pedal. 

That BMP board had a positive ground.  It's simple to reverse the polarities when the power comes from an internal battery.

The old BMPs were not true-bypass because they used SPDT stomp switches and the board input was always connected to the input jack.  It was like the Flintstones back then.


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## Coda (Feb 5, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Yes, on your build.  I guess I muddied the water a bit when I posted my trace.



I put the tone caps on a toggle to switch between the Elk and Triangle circuits.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 5, 2022)

OK, I suspected as much, but wasn't 100% sure.  Thanks for clarifying.


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## Coda (Feb 5, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> OK, I suspected as much, but wasn't 100% sure.  Thanks for clarifying.



I build all my Muff circuits in octagon Hammond enclosures. There is so much empty space that I like to pop a toggle in for something: Green Russian/Civil War, The 73/Violet, ‘73 Ram’s Head/mid-boost. I’m planning a ‘77 V3/Zappa mods build next…


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## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 5, 2022)

When I saw the Zappa mod on Kitrae's page, I put a 100K trimpot in series with the Muffin's R12 on the BMP I was building.  It really smooths things out, if that's what you want.  50K trimpot is probably plenty, but I didn't know at the time.  Ignore the ref des in the pic below, they do not match the Muffin Fuzz.


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## Coda (Feb 5, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> When I saw the Zappa mod on Kitrae's page, I put a 100K trimpot in series with the Muffin's R12 on the BMP I was building.  It really smooths things out, if that's what you want.  50K trimpot is probably plenty, but I didn't know at the time.  Ignore the ref des in the pic below, they do not match the Muffin Fuzz.
> View attachment 22609



That’s an interesting idea. I may try that out.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 5, 2022)

The CLIP pot I lifted from the WH Swollen Pickle.


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## Feral Feline (Feb 6, 2022)

It’s not that I’m clever enough to build a different circuit than what was intended for a given board, but rather that I’m foolish enough to try…

…Like the “Barbershop” I superimposed on a ROG MayQueen derivative.

🤪


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## Feral Feline (Feb 6, 2022)

Okay, so I may have the Shika in my basket, for science sake🤓, along with a charge-pump 3PDT bypass board to facilitate a PNP build. Just flip the polarised caps around… right? 🧐

A Muffin board, too, just in case I need to build up a contest idea…


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