# Looking for a diy reverb with short delay time, non FV-1 based.



## temol (Aug 10, 2022)

Looking for a DIY room-like reverb, with delay times up to 30ms. 
Could not find anything except FV-1 based projects or this one.
I've played a bit with all-pass filters but could not get long enough delay. And the biggest issues is the noise (stacked op-amps).


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## WheatAndBarley (Aug 10, 2022)

Short Belton brick build?


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## temol (Aug 10, 2022)

Well.. doubt about this. There are PT2399 chips inside and min delay for PT2399 is 30ms.


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## MichaelW (Aug 10, 2022)

temol said:


> Well.. doubt about this. There are PT2399 chips inside and min delay for PT2399 is 30ms.


How about the Spirit Box (EQD Ghost Echo). It's a Brick plus PT2399. I've been thinking about building this and relegating my FV-1 Arachnid to non-Reverb uses. I definitely like the Belton Brick reverbs better than FV-1


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## Bio77 (Aug 10, 2022)

VFE Yodler is one too.


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## Coda (Aug 10, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> How about the Spirit Box (EQD Ghost Echo). It's a Brick plus PT2399. I've been thinking about building this and relegating my FV-1 Arachnid to non-Reverb uses. I definitely like the Belton Brick reverbs better than FV-1



+1. The Spirit Box is excellent…


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## Robert (Aug 10, 2022)

If you've ruled out the FV-1 and Belton Brick you don't have a lot of options left for DIY reverb.

I was going to suggest the Stalker, but finding the ES56028 IC might be tricky. 

I mean the _ideal_ answer would be an MN3011 (or some other BBD contraption), but that's probably not a realistic solution.


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## temol (Aug 11, 2022)

I have a Belton based reverb but I want a shorter delay. Shorter than PT2399 offers. 
Yesterday I ordered ES56033 from Aliexpress. I'm afraid it's the only source now... We'll see. 
FV1 is at the end of my list because of the overall price, availability. And it requires pre-programmed EPROM.


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## mdc (Aug 11, 2022)

CHARONIUM
					

A deep cave where tonal life or death hangs in the balance. Clone board of the Last Gasp Labs Misty Cave. If atmospheric tonal adventure is your...




					www.deadendfx.com


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## temol (Aug 11, 2022)

A little bit of success. I've just breadborded simple "reverb" using MN3207/MN3102 chips.  By adjusting clock frequency I get delay times between 3-30 ms. A bit noisy at slow clock clock speeds. And there's a little bit of slapback at the attack.


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## Deperduci (Aug 13, 2022)

please share what you've found, I have a pair each of those chips and only need 1 CE-2 clone...  😉 

Or is it that found the bottom of the clock frequency that's still usable?


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## temol (Aug 28, 2022)

Deperduci said:


> please share what you've found,



Take look at the MN3207 datasheet. There's an application circuit (echo) on the last page. I breadboarded it to test adjustment range of the delay times. By varying R/C values connected to pins 5 and 6 of the MN3102 you change oscillation frequency. Just put potentiometer/trimmer instead of R. Also check page 3 of the MN3102 datasheet. There's a table with examples of R and C values and frequency ranges. 



			http://www.elenota.pl/datasheet_download/57359/MN3207
		



			http://www.elenota.pl/datasheet_download/163314/MN3102


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## Robert (Aug 28, 2022)

temol said:


> FV1 is at the end of my list because of the overall price, availability. And it requires pre-programmed EPROM.



The FV1 has some decent reverb algorithms built in, no EEPROM required.

I think you'd be pretty happy with the results (and flexibility of SpinCAD + EEPROM), but the BBD idea sounds pretty damn cool.


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## Deperduci (Aug 28, 2022)

I’ve not read to deep on data sheets, i get to pin outs and what voltage fries them if I even read them (like finding substitute IC’s…)  

Guess I want to see y breadboard but bad wording to ask more politely than Buggks “how big are they?”


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## Funnel (Aug 28, 2022)

mdc said:


> CHARONIUM
> 
> 
> A deep cave where tonal life or death hangs in the balance. Clone board of the Last Gasp Labs Misty Cave. If atmospheric tonal adventure is your...
> ...


I saw the deadend fx bbd reverbs. When I was researching them I was convinced I would build the metamorph cause it sounds great. But finding the mn3011 seems impossible.


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## temol (Aug 30, 2022)

The eagle has landed.. ES56033E from aliexpress. Five pieces for US $5.58. Delivery took 19 days.



I tested only one piece, it works, no issues. 

I've breadboarded the Stalker and here's short test. Sloppy playing but I just wanted to check different knob settings. 








						stalker2.wav
					

Shared with Dropbox




					www.dropbox.com
				



There are 16 "riffs". 1-8 LFO off, 9-16 LFO on. 1-4 and 9-12 mix @ 12 o'clock, 5-8 and 13-16 mix @ 15 o'clock. Time setting for each group of fours: mininum,  9 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 15 o'clock. 

I'm quite happy with the result. Now it's time to design a pcb.


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## MichaelW (Aug 30, 2022)

temol said:


> The eagle has landed.. ES56033E from aliexpress. Five pieces for US $5.58. Delivery took 19 days.
> View attachment 31466
> I tested only one piece, it works, no issues.
> 
> ...


What was the overdrive? Sounded great!


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## szukalski (Aug 30, 2022)

Your demo piqued my interest enough to have some ES56033E on the way..


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## lrgaraujo (Aug 30, 2022)

temol said:


> The eagle has landed.. ES56033E from aliexpress. Five pieces for US $5.58. Delivery took 19 days.
> View attachment 31466
> I tested only one piece, it works, no issues.
> 
> ...


Would you be willing to share your pcb layout once it's done? I'm definetely interested


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## DGWVI (Aug 30, 2022)

I also just picked up some ES56033 because of your clip


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## temol (Aug 30, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> What was the overdrive? Sounded great!



JCM800 pre from Pod HD500X plus 4x12 V30 Mesa impulse response.



lrgaraujo said:


> Would you be willing to share your pcb layout once it's done? I'm definetely interested


I think so. In the meanwhile - there's a perf board layout available on the author's website. 
There's also simplified version of the double tracker  - Shadow.


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## lrgaraujo (Aug 30, 2022)

Nice! Will probably give the shadow a try


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## Feral Feline (Sep 3, 2022)

Dang, I'd heard of the Stalker but not the Shadow, and I was going to name my PPCB Doubletracker The Shadow.


Who knows what evil tone lurks within the minds and amps of men (& women)?


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## temol (Sep 3, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> Who knows what evil tone lurks within the minds and amps of men (& women)?


there is always someone who knows 

So... I fired the pcb yesterday, worked immediately . Small issue with a TIME potentiometer (it was also present on the breadboard but I was hoping that moving to pcb would solve the problem). Touching  (or even almost touching) the pot sometimes generates slight detune/slowing effect, like turning delay knob while playing. It's without the box yet now so no worries for now. 

Single sided board, some jumpers. Potentiometers and switch mounted and soldered from the copper side.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Sep 3, 2022)

Looking at the datasheets, the ES56033 is nearly identical to the PT2399.  Both use ΣΔ modulators for the A/D & D/A conversion.  Both contain user-configureable low-pass filters. Both contain SRAM storage for the delay.  Both contain a clock VCO.  Both contain an internal bias supply.  Both run on +5V.  The pinouts are different.  The SRAM depth is 32K in the ES56033, 44K in the PT2399.  For the same clock freq, the PT2399's delay is 37% longer.  Both datasheets leave a LOT to the imagination.  The PT2399 provides a range for the clock freq and a table that maps resistor values to clock freq.  The ES56033 tells us next to nothing about the VCO, other than two example circuits.

You mentioned that the clock freq changes when you touch the Time pot.  If you swap the Time pot and the series resistor (18K in the example circuits), then you'll get some isolation between the pot and the more sensitive of the two FADJ pins.


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## temol (Sep 4, 2022)

Thanks for the suggestion. Just tested it on a breadboard - no difference. Stalker uses 2k2 resistor and 10k pot. But even with higher values there's this effect.


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## temol (Oct 26, 2022)

So, here it is, boxed.


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## Feral Feline (Oct 26, 2022)

That's an awesome looking enclosure, where'd you get it? 😉


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## temol (Oct 26, 2022)

Let me think for a moment.... hm..


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## Feral Feline (Oct 26, 2022)

Now that it's boxed, are you still getting the TIME potentiometer detune issue?


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## temol (Oct 26, 2022)

Yep... but I can live with it. It does not bother me anymore 
Especially when the pedal is off


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## benny_profane (Oct 26, 2022)

temol said:


> Let me think for a moment.... hm..


Is that a Hammond 1456 series? Looks great!


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## fig (Oct 26, 2022)

The PT2399 data sheet has a minimal parts delay/echo schematic. I've breadboarded it at the end of a muff-type circuit. A bit noisy with the routing but it does get the job done. A few component tweaks might get you to the desired time.


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## temol (Oct 26, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> Is that a Hammond 1456 series? Looks great!


It's my own design and execution.


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## iamjackslackof (Oct 26, 2022)

temol said:


> It's my own design and execution.


It looks absolutely killer. Did you powder coat folded metal or something?


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## Cybercow (Oct 26, 2022)

Robert said:


> I was going to suggest the Stalker, but finding the ES56028 IC might be tricky.
> 
> I mean the _ideal_ answer would be an MN3011 (or some other BBD contraption), but that's probably not a realistic solution.


FWIW, the ES56028 is available from a few reliable eBay sellers. Just check their ratings.

The MN3011 is available too. But the lone vendor wants $45 for each one.


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## temol (Oct 27, 2022)

iamjackslackof said:


> Did you powder coat folded metal or something?


Exactly. 1.5mm thick aluminium sheet.


			https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/sheet-metal-enclosures-inspire-me.11888/page-5


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