# Recording pedal demos through interface?



## BurntFingers (Dec 30, 2020)

I've got an audient id14, I've got a bunch of pedals that's need demos.

When I put a fuzz pedal in front of the interface in the daw and record it sounds like shit, fizzy and flat, which is obviously the opposite of what we're looking for. 

Even with the gain on the interface at zero it's still too much.

Is there something I'm missing? A DI box? I don't want to mic a cab and everything that entails if I can avoid it but how to get an accurate fuzz sound from pedals into an interface. Any knowledgeable folks out there with some pearls of wisdom?


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## knucklehead (Dec 30, 2020)

I used to use a starved-plate ART tube DI for this kind of thing - they were cheap and worked reliably. A cab sim pedal or box might help, as would a preamp meant to send a guitar signal to a console or FOH. I am just re-venturing down this road myself, just having gotten an EVO for similar purposes.

A big part of 'the sound' is gain structure, power compression and speaker characteristics that is a rig, so anything you can do to re-introduce amplification elements can help. A direct/line feed changes the game a bit.

Thanks for asking the question - I'ma be following this conversation.


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## Reno315 (Dec 30, 2020)

Try a cab impulse response loader.


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## Grubb (Dec 30, 2020)

Reno315 said:


> Try a cab impulse response loader.


This is absolutely the answer. Any pedal or guitar signal straight into your recording software without an impulse response is going to sound like poo no matter how good the pedal is, because there's no speaker (or speaker emulation) in your guitar signal chain. NadIR and LeCab are 2 good free IR loaders I've used. There are lots of free IRs floating around too, try Ownhammer's free pack. I've paid for a few York Audio premium IRs and they are top, top quality.


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## BurntFingers (Dec 30, 2020)

Reno315 said:


> Try a cab impulse response loader.


Oh gotcha. Like an amp sim vst? I do have guitar rig 5 which has a plethora of stuff and the Lancaster IR pack from Glenn Fricker. 

So to be clear, there's no need for anything extra 'out front' as it were, like a di box etc?


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## BurntFingers (Dec 30, 2020)

update:

I plugged my pedalboard into my daw, opened reaper, played. Sounds like balls.

Opened GR5, added the cab simulator. Sounds awesome.

I'm kicking myself it was that easy all along and feel like a caveman seeing an astronaut.

Thanks guys.

For the record I'm using the Control Room pro cab sim in GR5 with the 4x12 green cab model (most related to what I actually use).

It needs a bit of EQ sculpting to remove the massive low end but compared to the fizzy mess it was before this is 1000% more usable and makes pedal demos actually feasible.


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## SYLV9ST9R (Dec 30, 2020)

BurntFingers said:


> Oh gotcha. Like an amp sim vst? I do have guitar rig 5 which has a plethora of stuff and the Lancaster IR pack from Glenn Fricker.
> 
> So to be clear, there's no need for anything extra 'out front' as it were, like a di box etc?


You already have a [JFET] D.I. input on your interface, so you're good on that front. With a cab/amp sim, you'll be good.


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## Grubb (Dec 30, 2020)

BurntFingers said:


> Opened GR5, added the cab simulator. Sounds awesome.


Good news.


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## BurntFingers (Dec 30, 2020)

SYLV9ST9R said:


> You already have a [JFET] D.I. input on your interface, so you're good on that front. With a cab/amp sim, you'll be good.


Yeah it's a big improvement. There's some issues with muddiness and cab sims though, like it's easy to get bass but not so easy to get a reliable, true-to-life high end without boosting the crap out of the high end in an EQ curve, but I guess a speaker and amp takes care of a lot of that in real-life.


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## knucklehead (Dec 31, 2020)

FWIW - I came by a Mooer Radar, but I played with one of their TresCab micro pedals - it works really well; http://www.mooeraudio.com/product/TresCab--88.html

Just in case you ever want to ditch your rig when you're live - one can dream.


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## rmfx (Dec 31, 2020)

Electric guitars are picky beasts. A DI'd electric guitar (nothing else, no processing) will always sound bad IMO. The coloration of the amp and speaker is almost what defines the tone of electric guitar. Most amp circuits have a pretty drastic EQ shift of the signal. I believe it's a pretty massive shelving boost of lows and highs, depending on your tone stack and other variables. The speaker is the opposite, a pretty "narrow" frequency range typically between 80hz-5k. Doesn't go very high or very low, and the EQ response of speakers is anything but smooth. That combination of amp color and speaker color (and whatever other gear you're using, duh) is what gives you that typical "electric guitar tone".

If you are going to DI an electric guitar, you absolutely need some sort of amp/cab simulator, whether it be hardware or software. I see you used Guitar Rig, happy that helped a lot.

Micing a speaker also drastically affects the tone, proximity effect will cause a massive increase in low-end. I find I high pass electric guitars somewhere between 75-200hz depending on a lot of variables to overcome close-micing. I'll using do that on amp/cab simulators, too, but a must with a mic. A little bit of room ambience on electric guitar (that aren't using a room mic or anything further away) will help it open up and sound a lot more natural, too.


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## knucklehead (Dec 31, 2020)

rmfx said:


> Electric guitars are picky beasts. A DI'd electric guitar (nothing else, no processing) will always sound bad IMO. The coloration of the amp and speaker is almost what defines the tone of electric guitar. Most amp circuits have a pretty drastic EQ shift of the signal. I believe it's a pretty massive shelving boost of lows and highs, depending on your tone stack and other variables. The speaker is the opposite, a pretty "narrow" frequency range typically between 80hz-5k. Doesn't go very high or very low, and the EQ response of speakers is anything but smooth. That combination of amp color and speaker color (and whatever other gear you're using, duh) is what gives you that typical "electric guitar tone".
> 
> If you are going to DI an electric guitar, you absolutely need some sort of amp/cab simulator, whether it be hardware or software. I see you used Guitar Rig, happy that helped a lot.
> 
> Micing a speaker also drastically affects the tone, proximity effect will cause a massive increase in low-end. I find I high pass electric guitars somewhere between 75-200hz depending on a lot of variables to overcome close-micing. I'll using do that on amp/cab simulators, too, but a must with a mic. A little bit of room ambience on electric guitar (that aren't using a room mic or anything further away) will help it open up and sound a lot more natural, too.


Right there with you - across the board. It's part of the appeal to the Mooer devices; both run IR, and the Radar actually lets you import your own. There are others that get high opinion marks. The Mooer pedals are the first I have tried and purchased. 

I'm looking forward to getting my Radar - my need is the same as the OP, and I am STILL not certain my existing plugin environment provides me with the solution he found for himself. I have the Evo 8 (quite similar to the id14 I believe) and no software beyond what came with the device. 

Beyond sound clips - I want a solution that will let me go rig-less in performance with my pedal board with as few compromises sonically as I can come to. We shall soon see how far this gets me.


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## BurntFingers (Dec 31, 2020)

rmfx said:


> Electric guitars are picky beasts. A DI'd electric guitar (nothing else, no processing) will always sound bad IMO. The coloration of the amp and speaker is almost what defines the tone of electric guitar. Most amp circuits have a pretty drastic EQ shift of the signal. I believe it's a pretty massive shelving boost of lows and highs, depending on your tone stack and other variables. The speaker is the opposite, a pretty "narrow" frequency range typically between 80hz-5k. Doesn't go very high or very low, and the EQ response of speakers is anything but smooth. That combination of amp color and speaker color (and whatever other gear you're using, duh) is what gives you that typical "electric guitar tone".
> 
> If you are going to DI an electric guitar, you absolutely need some sort of amp/cab simulator, whether it be hardware or software. I see you used Guitar Rig, happy that helped a lot.
> 
> Micing a speaker also drastically affects the tone, proximity effect will cause a massive increase in low-end. I find I high pass electric guitars somewhere between 75-200hz depending on a lot of variables to overcome close-micing. I'll using do that on amp/cab simulators, too, but a must with a mic. A little bit of room ambience on electric guitar (that aren't using a room mic or anything further away) will help it open up and sound a lot more natural, too.



The problem I now have is an obscene low end and general boominess in the sound, whatever ir loader and responses used there's an ever present boom that overwhelms. 

This means a lack of high end information so tone knobs don't do a whole lot, or at least don't showcase the full range.

I get frequencies and pass filters, I've done studio stuff with bands before, it'd just be great to be able to record a pedal and have it sound semi- realistic.

Getting a fun manageable tone is dead easy by an od pedal into a cab sim but when the objective is to demonstrate the range of tones in a unit, that's proving difficult. 

And if we can keep this strictly to interface/home studio recording that'd be great.


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## Danbieranowski (Dec 31, 2020)

BurntFingers said:


> The problem I now have is an obscene low end and general boominess in the sound, whatever ir loader and responses used there's an ever present boom that overwhelms.
> 
> This means a lack of high end information so tone knobs don't do a whole lot, or at least don't showcase the full range.
> 
> ...


I haven’t been happy with the amount of work it is to get decent demo videos of my pedals, so I’ve moved to using an iRig Pre ($40) and a Behringer B906 ($50) hung right on a cab. I run the iRig direct into my phone and just record directly into my iPhone camera. It’s so much faster and easier and it honestly sounds great. IR loaders and amp sims are fine, but I don’t find them to be reliable replicators of pedal tones.
Here are a few examples of this mic/iRig/iPhone setup:


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## caiofilipini (Jan 1, 2021)

I'm a happy user of a Torpedo Captor X. It's not cheap, but by far the best sound I was able to get out of a cab-less home recording system. That and a couple of well chosen OwnHammer IRs and I'm good to go.


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## caiofilipini (Jan 1, 2021)

Btw that's basically what you hear in this video:


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## BurntFingers (Jan 1, 2021)

caiofilipini said:


> Btw that's basically what you hear in this video:


That's coming out of the amp right? Then into the interface?


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## caiofilipini (Jan 1, 2021)

BurntFingers said:


> That's coming out of the amp right? Then into the interface?


That's guitar > pedal > amp > Captor X > recording interface


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## BurntFingers (Jan 1, 2021)

Yeah I'm trying to remove the amp from the whole process but it's looking like the most feasible option.


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## caiofilipini (Jan 1, 2021)

BurntFingers said:


> Yeah I'm trying to remove the amp from the whole process but it's looking like the most feasible option.


Ah, yeah, I guess amp sims are the way to go, but you gotta find the sweet spot with your rig. Good luck!


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## Grubb (Jan 1, 2021)

BurntFingers said:


> I get frequencies and pass filters, I've done studio stuff with bands before, it'd just be great to be able to record a pedal and have it sound semi- realistic.


Pass filters are pretty much non-negotiable IMO for getting pedals to sound natural and at their best. I'd start a HPF at 250Hz and while there can be some flexibility, I'd go no lower than 125 Hz. Similarly I'd be looking to roll off high end with a LPF somewhere between 7kHz and 10kHz, depending on the particular tone. You'll be mostly getting rid of junk frequencies and keeping the bulk of what your pedal is actually doing. I can't remember if you were the person mentioning Reaper, but ReaEQ (VST effect) is easy to set for this purpose, one instance can do both your HPF and LPF at the same time.


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## BurntFingers (Jan 1, 2021)

That's my first port of call. 

150hz and 10khz. Removes rumble and hiss, then adjust from there... For guitar tones at least.

After much dicking around there's no substitute for micing a cab in either sound or feel, so we're back at square one. Which is fine.


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## Danbieranowski (Jan 1, 2021)

BurntFingers said:


> That's my first port of call.
> 
> 150hz and 10khz. Removes rumble and hiss, then adjust from there... For guitar tones at least.
> 
> After much dicking around there's no substitute for micing a cab in either sound or feel, so we're back at square one. Which is fine.


I suppose another option is the 6 band eq pedal to carve out some of those issues. Otherwise, standard amp sims and some dynamic eq or multiband compression targeting your problem areas.


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## rmfx (Jan 1, 2021)

BurntFingers said:


> After much dicking around there's no substitute for micing a cab in either sound or feel, so we're back at square one. Which is fine.



This has ultimately been my conclusion as well. Amp sims can help a LOT, and I have definitely not tried them all to know which ones are the best, I just find it easier to throw a mic on my cab and move it around until I'm happy.

You're using a HPF after the amp/cab sim, correct? Figuring you are, using it before will be pretty useless.


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## Grubb (Jan 1, 2021)

rmfx said:


> You're using a HPF after the amp/cab sim, correct? Figuring you are, using it before will be pretty useless.


Actually using one before the amp works great, especially the HPF. Means that the amp isn't chewing on too much low end. I just about always run some kind of pre-EQ to clean up the signal before it hits the amp.

Also I don't wish to offend anyone on this thread, but using a high quality IR created by experienced audio engineers using high quality microphones in a controlled studio environment is going to give you far superior results to micing your cab at home with whatever you've got in 99.9% of cases. If you aren't getting noticeably different results with pro IRs then there's something up with your process that would be worth reviewing.


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## BurntFingers (Jan 1, 2021)

It depends on the objective surely. If I want a tone that's ready to record with minimal work from me then yep, an ir can be great. Plug in, load up the amp sim with an ownhammer v30 4x12 and you're away.

But if you need something to replicate the sounds of a pedal, and the feel of an amp, then they don't cut the mustard. No 2 ways about it and this is paid for IRs like ownhammer not some random crap. 

IRs have their place but it ain't pedal demos.


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## Grubb (Jan 1, 2021)

BurntFingers said:


> It if you need something to replicate the sounds of a pedal, and the feel of an amp, then they don't cut the mustard. No 2 ways about it and this is paid for IRs like ownhammer not some random crap.


Nothing can give you the feel of an amp (or more accurately the cab) in the room because there are a bunch of psychoacoustics in play and the way our ears and brain perceive sound is different to the way a microphone receives sound. IRs and microphones can both only give you the sound of a recording, not the feel of the direct experience. 

Statements about the usefulness of IRs for pedal demos will tend to reflect the preferences and workflow of individuals rather than any objective fact about IRs. I hope you find a method that works for you, I'm looking forward to hearing your demos.


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## Danbieranowski (Jan 1, 2021)

If volume is a problem, amp sims and IRs are an excellent solution, albeit time-consuming because you have to find the best sim/IR combo for the pedal. That being said, I have yet to find a setup as universally accepting of pedals as a clean tube amp through a cab. A jillion excellent records have been made with a 57 pointed halfway between the cone and dust cap. The classics never die.


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## BurntFingers (Jan 2, 2021)

Danbieranowski said:


> If volume is a problem, amp sims and IRs are an excellent solution, albeit time-consuming because you have to find the best sim/IR combo for the pedal. That being said, I have yet to find a setup as universally accepting of pedals as a clean tube amp through a cab. A jillion excellent records have been made with a 57 pointed halfway between the cone and dust cap. The classics never die.


True dat. Nah the volume is the easiest part. This wasn't meant to be an IR vs mic'd amp debate, I was looking for a simpler solution to recording pedals but alas simple doesn't equal better in this response. 

Like you said, pointing a 57 at a 4x12 is just a great way of capturing guitar sounds. And it's a lot more fun too.


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## BurntFingers (Jan 4, 2021)

Fuzzboy demo


Today's experiments with cab recording. That's a link up there.


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## Grubb (Jan 4, 2021)

BurntFingers said:


> Fuzzboy demo
> 
> 
> Today's experiments with cab recording. That's a link up there.


Gets two thumbs up from me. Sounds as good as it looks, I particularly love the knob selection. I'm going to use one of those larger knobs for a Triangulum build soon. Starve control was giving nice synthy farts  😂


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## mdc (Jan 4, 2021)

If you're looking to go fully in-the-box, Kuassa's Amplifikation Lite and the God's Cab IR pack from Wilkinson are a more-than-adequate sounding setup for demo recording. The Kuassa amp sim is free, has an IR loader, and has an extremely uninteresting/neutral clean channel that makes a great pedal platform. Good excuse to break out the amp-in-a-box pedals you've built and try them out as always-on pedals. 

You may find weird impedance issues popping up if you're plugging a guitar directly into an audio interface (like, why do all these distortion pedals make my signal quieter instead of louder sorts of things) and a DI can help with that for sure. Another option is to run a buffer at the end of your chain like a boss pedal or something that will keep your signal consistent and your output impedance low.


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## knucklehead (Jan 4, 2021)

Just got my Mooer Radar today - I'll let you know how or if it plays well with the Evo 8


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