# A Moral Dilemma



## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 21, 2022)

With the heightened tensions along the Russian - Ukranian border, I started wondering whether I should boycott Russian Germanium devices or buy up a bunch in anticipation of a supply chain disruption.  Yes, I realize that the real issue is the potential human suffering.  Please vote.


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## jubal81 (Feb 21, 2022)

What about buying Russian transistors from countries other than the Russian Federation and Belarus?


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## Chuck D. Bones (Feb 21, 2022)

Not China.


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## Paradox916 (Feb 21, 2022)

Must…..refrain… from … catalytic converter…..joke…..

I’m gonna go with boycott for a number of reasons.
#1 It’s In alignment with my cheapness 
#2 I’m sitting on a small stock of crooked  commie GE diodes and transistors that I already don’t use…(at least yet)
#3 I spent my monthly GE money on packing tape and cardboard boxes 
#4 did I mention I’m cheap?


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## jeffwhitfield (Feb 21, 2022)

Honestly, I think the whole Russian/Ukranian thing has more to do with the Russian government and less to do with the Russian people. I would imagine most Russian citizens don't give a shit...that is except an older generation that would like Mother Russia to be revived in all it's glory. That said, I can't say that most Russian businesses would want to be a part of the whole Russian/Ukranian thing. After all, what next beyond that? If they succeed, will they consider taking Georgia too? Sounds more and more like a bad situation that most Russian citizens wouldn't really want to be a part of. Russia just isn't the same country anymore. There's really no advantage in taking over Ukraine.


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## peccary (Feb 21, 2022)

My man Nati.99.Electronics in Bulgaria gets me stuff faster than Tayda.


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## cooder (Feb 21, 2022)

Well I am sure that buying a lot of them affects your fellow citizens as well as the average Russian citizen and he general stability of earth axis rotation a lot less than hoarding loo paper for no reason. Right?


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## DAJE (Feb 22, 2022)

I've had the same thought, but the tiny amount of money we'd be putting into the Russian economy would be unlikely to make a difference to Putin's plans. If you're bothered by it, there are other former Eastern Bloc countries to buy from.


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## Stickman393 (Feb 22, 2022)

I'm in agreement with the notion that we should be holding separate the Russian people and the Russian government.

GE Diodes and transistors....are all of these NOS?  I don't really know.  Either way, these represent parts of the Russian economy that are relatively small.  The majority of their economy is based on extractive industries: mining and pumping materials for others to use.  They have an enormous landmass to exploit.

This is part of the status quo that has been holding power in that country since the USSR collapsed...those that were able to claim ownership of the land out of which those extractives were mined were able to wield an outsized influence on their local economy.  Those that had the right friends and, especially after Putin came into power, paid into the protection racket, got to hold onto their claims.  The vast majority of Russian citizens are blameless; they're at the mercy of the oligarchs, and the oligarchs are at the mercy of a man who is likely the weathiest in the world, is KGB-trained in information warfare, absolutely despises the idea of unpredictable elections, and yearns for the good old days when the USSR was a force to be reckoned with.

I can't claim to have through and in-depth knowledge of the inner workings of the Russian government...I'm working off what has been reported in the news, but viewed through that lens Putin's actions make some kind of sense.  

Not like "oh, now that seems reasonable" sense, but more along the lines of "oh, well it makes sense for a malicious narcissist to go down that path" sense.

Anywho...I don't really know if semiconductors have any real ties to the oligarchy in Russia.  They're inexpensive enough that part of me wonders how much they would benefit from them...

But I think that there are other avenues that would hurt a bit more.  Say, taking a look at the Magnitsky act, seeing if (read: where) there are loopholes that are being exploited.  Cracking down on their money laundering schemes here in the US (although...to be fair...that would likely have a HUGE impact on the local economy in parts of the country.  Are we as a people outraged enough to suffer some pain on behalf of Ukraine?  I know what my answer would be, but politics are tricky and people are generally shit). 

Sanctions on extractives will hurt both the oligarchs and the Russian people.  Unfortunately sanctions have a history of being relatively ineffective as a tool in foreign policy...I don't imagine a semiconductor boycott would really do much of anything aside from being symbolic, but without more information I can't really say if the action would align with the symbol or...ah...act in dissonance with the symbol.

It's really, really, really, really complicated.  Putin is a shitbag, but he's not a cartoonishly evil man.  He's not a genius, but he isn't an idiot either.  His KGB days taught him that if you deflect, lie, accuse your rivals of doing the thing that you are doing, and muddy the waters enough and with enough flare...you can keep the general public in a state of never really knowing what is true.  With that kind of ethos, it's hard to 100% know what's going on over there and what will help or harm the correct parties.

That's all a lot of words to...I guess...amount to the shrug emoji?  It would be nice if we knew of some way to individually exercise our disapproval.  It's unfortunate that the only way we as individuals could potentially do so is through our wallets.


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## fig (Feb 22, 2022)

No comment. Well, technically, _that_ is a comment, so I may as well dive in. Hmm, is the water cold? I hate cold water. I hate cold anything. Now _I'm_ cold. Now I hate _me_. I hate this! Stupid poll!


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## jubal81 (Feb 22, 2022)

I 100% agree there are a lot of good Russian people who are suffering at no fault of their own, and it's tragedy. However, speaking for myself, I can't in good conscience add any money to the Russian economy, and it goes waaaay beyond what's happening in Ukraine right now.

A few bucks spent on old electronic parts is totally inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and I don't think it's that big a deal if someone wants to buy some transistors. It's a personal choice. I fall on the side of 'why bother feeling guilty at all?' and just spend a few extra bucks on my conscience or just find some solution using silicon.


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## Betty Wont (Feb 22, 2022)

If I boycotted every government action I disagreed with I wouldn't be able to leave my house or eat. I can't even sanction my own own horrible government, let alone one on the other side of the world.


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## JamieJ (Feb 22, 2022)

peccary said:


> My man Nati.99.Electronics in Bulgaria gets me stuff faster than Tayda.


He sounds like your dealer Joe. 🤣

In other news he/she is now my dealer also.


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## Stickman393 (Feb 22, 2022)

Betty Wont said:


> If I boycotted every government action I disagreed with I wouldn't be able to leave my house or eat. I can't even sanction my own own horrible government, let alone one on the other side of the world.



I understand that sentiment.  Hell, I feel it a little bit myself.

Though I do worry that this line of thought kinda plays into the hands of somebody like Putin.  The game he plays is to equivocate, to pretend that what he does is fine because hey look over there at that other thing.  It's governing by nihilism, where nothing really means anything because everybody does bad shit, so that means that nobody has a right to judge anybody else.

I would argue that Putin's imperial ambitions cross a line, quite literally.  But that doesn't change the fact that there isn't much that we as individuals can do.

I suppose we could write our representatives.  I don't particularly have any idea as to what course of action should be pursued, though.


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## NewBanana (Feb 22, 2022)

i commend the thought.  it’s nice to see people thinking about more than their own little world.  and it’s nice to see a civil discussion about the situation. 

my 2 cents…. what russia is doing is bad.  but nothing compared to the horrors china has committed in tibet or against the uighur people.  so if you stay away from russian parts i think the same would apply to china.  and if you can’t buy chinese parts you can’t do this whole hobby/business/whatever you classify it as.   

just keep being a good person and keep remembering that your actions have consequences and the world will be a better place for it. 

thanks for raising the issue and opening up the conversation.


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## Barry (Feb 22, 2022)

NewBanana said:


> i commend the thought.  it’s nice to see people thinking about more than their own little world.  and it’s nice to see a civil discussion about the situation.
> 
> my 2 cents…. what russia is doing is bad.  but nothing compared to the horrors china has committed in tibet or against the uighur people.  so if you stay away from russian parts i think the same would apply to china.  and if you can’t buy chinese parts you can’t do this whole hobby/business/whatever you classify it as.
> 
> ...


If Putin is allowed to take Ukraine, I fear China will soon move on Taiwan and economic sanctions are bullshit


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## fig (Feb 22, 2022)

It's very concerning, as are many issues facing this planet and all the inhabitants because it has become such a small place that it takes very little action to cause such a massive stir, let alone what can result from something like the topic of the poll. 
Positive actions don't always carry positive results, but they stand a much greater chance than the alternative and even the small ones have the same potential to start something huge!


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## andare (Feb 23, 2022)

fig said:


> No comment. Well, technically, _that_ is a comment, so I may as well dive in. Hmm, is the water cold? I hate cold water. I hate cold anything. Now _I'm_ cold. Now I hate _me_. I hate this! Stupid poll!


Do you hate cold beer too? It goes well with figs on a hot summer night with Yanni playing in the background.


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## Stickman393 (Feb 23, 2022)

NewBanana said:


> i commend the thought.  it’s nice to see people thinking about more than their own little world.  and it’s nice to see a civil discussion about the situation.



You're right.  This conversation has been far too mature.

Anybody ever notice that Putin sounds like  _Pootin'?_

You know, like, crop dusting.  Barking spiders.  Playing the sad trumpet.

...heh...inappropes.....


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## szukalski (Feb 23, 2022)

Buy them all and deprive those pesky Russians of the Germanium pedal building capacity! Once the fuzzes dry up, the army will stop fighting.

Either that, or source from the Ukraine.


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## Feral Feline (Feb 23, 2022)




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## fig (Feb 23, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> View attachment 23422


Say, is that an Elon Musk model? It actually resembles a .22ga bolt-action with a section of 1-1/2" radiator hose clamped on the end.


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## jeffwhitfield (Feb 23, 2022)

thewintersoldier said:


> My thoughts exactly. The Russian people have zero say in this, and even if they did if it doesn't align with Putin's views then it's a wash. I'm out of the germanium game for the most part so I don't have skin in the game, but I wouldn't cancel a person just because I don't agree with their governments policies or actions. If that were the case then I wouldn't buy from Americans either 😬


Yeah, me too. Got two big batches that more or less cover my needs.


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## MobyOctopad (Feb 23, 2022)

szukalski said:


> Buy them all and deprive those pesky Russians of the Germanium pedal building capacity! Once the fuzzes dry up, the army will stop fighting.
> 
> Either that, or source from the Ukraine.



I've been debating putting one last order in with one of the Ukrainian sellers I've gone to in the past for diodes and transistors. I'm not sure, though, if the benefit of a little extra cash their way would outweigh any potential safety concerns for them in just getting something shipped. (I think they're based in Kiev, and thus presumably okay, but I'm not sure.)

Curious if others have placed orders from either country since the crisis started.


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## HamishR (Feb 23, 2022)

The whole point is moot for me because I don't need any more Ge Transistors. But my sympathy is with the majority of the Russian people. They are being lied to, exploited and forced into going along with a mad man. He obviously has issues about the break-up of the Soviet Union but why should other people have their lives ruined for his issues? 

The entire thing is lunacy but avoiding buying a few dollars worth of transistors from some poor bugger living in a tiny apartment in a miserable city won't make any difference to a lunatic's plans.  Out f interest (and too much time on my hands I am told) I translated the address of the guy who I bought my last lot of MP20s from. So I google streetview looked at where he lived. It was Omsk, in the middle of nowhere, and the apartment building looked like something out of a cold war movie.  Dire. Where I live must look like paradise to that guy.


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## DAJE (Feb 24, 2022)

HamishR said:


> The entire thing is lunacy but avoiding buying a few dollars worth of transistors from some poor bugger living in a tiny apartment in a miserable city won't make any difference to a lunatic's plans.  Out f interest (and too much time on my hands I am told) I translated the address of the guy who I bought my last lot of MP20s from. So I google streetview looked at where he lived. It was Omsk, in the middle of nowhere, and the apartment building looked like something out of a cold war movie.  Dire. Where I live must look like paradise to that guy.


Arguably we'd be helping the average Ivan / Ivana by putting a few extra bucks in their pockets. It ain't the rich oligarchs that are selling Soviet era components on eBay. 

Personally I am, shall we say, unconvinced that sanctions do anything other than hurt the poorer citizens of whatever country they're aimed at. Big business usually finds a way to sidestep consequences.


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## Steve973 (Feb 24, 2022)

Remember that no government can truly rule without the consent of its people.  Now, before that starts a huge argument, I am not saying that it's easy for people to stop them.  But there are far more people than government officials.  I am particularly biased because Jinjer is Ukrainian, so I vote for "boycott".


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## Feral Feline (Feb 25, 2022)

Why did Russia invade Ukraine and has Putin's war failed?
					

Almost nine months after Putin unleashed war on Ukraine, Russian forces have suffered repeated setbacks.



					www.bbc.com


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## Matmosphere (Feb 25, 2022)

Ugh, I don’t want to wade into this too much but I will say, Kyiv is a very cool city, it is a little rough around the edges, but there is amazing murals painted everywhere through the city. The people are very friendly and nice, everyone is thoughtful and polite. They don’t deserve one bit of this. 





__





						Murals in Kyiv - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				








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						Kyivmural
					






					kyivmural.com
				




The argument that Ukraine was always part of Russia is pretty silly. Kyiv was a thriving city by 1000CE, Moscow was a forrest. 

There is an amazing documentary on Netflix called Winter on Fire that documents the revolution there in 2014. The Daily podcast has done some excellent reporting on Ukraine over the last several years. The did a story about the 2014 revolution a few years ago (during the whole first impeachment business) that did a great job of framing that 2014 revolution in the context of what caused it. They’ve also done some good work this past week as well.


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## Sturdag Lagernathy (Feb 27, 2022)

Man, a week or so ago, I ordered some cheap russki paper-in-oil caps and totally forgot about it. I get an email yesterday that says
  "Sorry, cannot complete transaction, Russia invaded my country. Thank you."..

At the time I ordered, I was in my own self interested blindspot of the whole situation. Seeing that email.. I don't know now. It's odd, the little things that can bring us together, cuz that guy? He was me. Just some dude that sold shit on the internet and lived his life. Now, God knows what he's dealing with. I would give him all the business I could, if it was possible.


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## gheorge77 (Feb 27, 2022)

Sturdag Lagernathy said:


> Man, a week or so ago, I ordered some cheap russki paper-in-oil caps and totally forgot about it. I get an email yesterday that says
> "Sorry, cannot complete transaction, Russia invaded my country. Thank you."..
> 
> At the time I ordered, I was in my own self interested blindspot of the whole situation. Seeing that email.. I don't know now. It's odd, the little things that can bring us together, cuz that guy? He was me. Just some dude that sold shit on the internet and lived his life. Now, God knows what he's dealing with. I would give him all the business I could, if it was possible.


That's some bad timing...thanks Vlad.

Unintentionally I ordered two big batches of Ge trannys from Russia and Ukraine around February 7 or so. Looks like I'm getting thr Russian order delivered tomorrow and I've seen no updates on the larger PNP order from Ukraine since February 10. Hopefully it ends up here at some point.

I did notice that the Ukrainian seller put up an away message til March 24. He is one I found through here Alexer1. Hopefully he is ok


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## eh là bas ma (Feb 27, 2022)

as an european citizen, I don't think there is a good and a bad side, I think they are all wrong (I mean governments) and responsible for this war. 

I hope this is obvious for everyone : European Union right now can't have a united military strategy, because USA is rooted deep inside some EU countries, wich refuse to talk about an EU army. They prefer to "externalize" their defense and let USA take care of everything...Poland is one of them, for exemple.

 If Russia, eastern and western europe countries are allied, they can rule themselves and have some influence in the world, instead of USA and China..."Big Europe" would beat them all in terms of industry, military, economics, natural resources, demographic, etc...Not a good deal for the other players , so I think it's kind of easy to guess that europeans, including Russia, are driven to war by their rivals, to make europe weaker.

USA are currently the kind of ally I wouldn't wish on my worst ennemy...In 2014 they succeded in taking over the biggest industrial company of our country, called Alstom. The head of the company was coerced into selling to General Electric. During a negociation journey in the US, US government put some of Alstom "strategic" workers in jail, in order to force the CEO to sign the deal. The CEO testified on record later.

We have the number, they have heavy weapons and armor, soooo...we just loose every time. Clearly you can rule a country without the people's consent, you just need to check a few conditions. Like control over the information, cut the police from the rest of the population, have full control over justice and tribunals, and keep the wealthy part of the population happy, for exemples.

As other forumites already said, if I boycott Russia's products now, I have to boycott every product from every country led by murderers in their government...I am afraid that's almost all of them...including my own. So no boycott for me, but I always buy from musikding, and I guess the boycott choice is in Klaus's hands.

I can't believe we have to worry about nuclear missiles right after covid...Life is so full of surprise, isn't it ?

My thoughts are with the Ukrainian people, I hope war will end very soon.


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