# Thermionic deluxe no sound



## Satorion (Mar 17, 2021)

Hello

My name is Jimmy from Finland and new member here. Finished my first build but no sound. Sound goes thru the pedal when its of and when i press the left button. But goes silent when i press the button on the right, weird.. Have no clue were to start looking? Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## peccary (Mar 17, 2021)

Welcome to the forum!

If it's possible, post some additional photos including the solder side of the board as well as the connections to the switches. That will help in getting people to help diagnose what's going on.

I don't have a lot of experience debugging, but the problem you describe comes up relatively often with lots of other boards and it tends to be something fairly simple: a diode that's in backwards, bad solder joint, doing the I/O backwards, that kind of thing so be sure to double check that all of your wires are going to where they need to be.


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## Satorion (Mar 17, 2021)

peccary said:


> Welcome to the forum!
> 
> If it's possible, post some additional photos including the solder side of the board as well as the connections to the switches. That will help in getting people to help diagnose what's going on.
> 
> I don't have a lot of experience debugging, but the problem you describe comes up relatively often with lots of other boards and it tends to be something fairly simple: a diode that's in backwards, bad solder joint, doing the I/O backwards, that kind of thing so be sure to double check that all of your wires are going to where they need to be.


Thanks for the reply, forgot to write that i have checked the diods and i think the capacitors are ok? Will take a photo of the solder side tomorrow.


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## BuddytheReow (Mar 17, 2021)

I agree with @peccary . The majority of troubleshoots tend to be a simple fix. Two other items I would put on his list: do all of your ICs have power going to them? I would check with a multimeter. The other one is to check that all your pots are turned up. Don't laugh, I've done it and spent at least an hour going down my troubleshoot checklist without realizing my volume pot was turned all the way down.

We need to rule out the obvious, quick fixes as mentioned before we start checking all the individual components with multimeters and audio probes.


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## Satorion (Mar 18, 2021)

BuddytheReow said:


> I agree with @peccary . The majority of troubleshoots tend to be a simple fix. Two other items I would put on his list: do all of your ICs have power going to them? I would check with a multimeter. The other one is to check that all your pots are turned up. Don't laugh, I've done it and spent at least an hour going down my troubleshoot checklist without realizing my volume pot was turned all the way down.
> 
> We need to rule out the obvious, quick fixes as mentioned before we start checking all the individual components with multimeters and audio probes.


Thanks for the suggestions, i've put pots somewhere in the middle so that can be ruled out. Will check the ic:s after work!


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## Mcknib (Mar 18, 2021)

Jimmy as everyone has said there are simple things you can check that we've all done as beginners plugging our in and out cables into the wrong in and out jacks easy to do with the pcb the wrong way up 

Normally your in would be on the right flipped wrong way up it's on the left you would still get bypassed signal if you did this but no effect signal 

When you say sound goes through with the left footswitch active and cuts out with the right do you mean effects sound or just bypassed sound?

The very first thing you should do is a check you get power to the pcb + and - pads then a visual check of all of your components making sure they are the correct value and polarized components are oriented the correct way 

You can use resistor colour band calculators like this 

https://samstechlib.com/15924820/en/

Post a picture of all of your offboard wiring to the in and out jacks, 3PDTs and DC jack so that it can be traced 

All your values and orientation look correct to me, can't see R34 but still best to check everything yourself I can miss things the same as anyone else


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## Chuck D. Bones (Mar 18, 2021)

Do any of the internal LEDs light up?

Do either of the front panel LEDs light up?

When you say "button on the left," do you mean when the board is out of the box with the parts facing up or when the box is fully assembled and the buttons are facing up?


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## Satorion (Mar 18, 2021)

Satorion said:


> Hello
> 
> My name is Jimmy from Finland and new member here. Finished my first build but no sound. Sound goes thru the pedal when its of and when i press the left button. But goes silent when i press the button on the right, weird.. Have no clue were to start looking? Any suggestions would be appreciated. View attachment 10442


Here is the solder side..


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## Satorion (Mar 18, 2021)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Do any of the internal LEDs light up?
> 
> Do either of the front panel LEDs light up?
> 
> When you say "button on the left," do you mean when the board is out of the box with the parts facing up or when the box is fully assembled and the buttons are facing up?


No leds light up except, left and right led when engaging each Channel. I mean channel 1 and 2, sound goes thru the pedal when channel 1 is on and of but goes silent when channel 2 is engaged.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Mar 18, 2021)

Well I guess we don't have to worrk about the pot bodies contacting the board!

Tell us about how you installed the trimpots because they don't exactly have the right footprint.

OK, now we have some better info.  Look for anything that is visually different between channels.  Then measure the voltage at every opamp pins 1 and 7.  Compare the two channels and look for a discrepancy.


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## Satorion (Mar 18, 2021)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Well I guess we don't have to worrk about the pot bodies contacting the board!
> 
> Tell us about how you installed the trimpots because they don't exactly have the right footprint.
> 
> OK, now we have some better info.  Look for anything that is visually different between channels.  Then measure the voltage at every opamp pins 1 and 7.  Compare the two channels and look for a discrepancy.


Opc:s measured:

Ic1 1,459v

Ic2a 4,59v
Ic3a 1,443v
Ic4a 1,449v

Ic2b 4,59v
Ic3b 1,468v
Ic4b 1,449v


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## Satorion (Mar 18, 2021)

Mcknib said:


> Jimmy as everyone has said there are simple things you can check that we've all done as beginners plugging our in and out cables into the wrong in and out jacks easy to do with the pcb the wrong way up
> 
> Normally your in would be on the right flipped wrong way up it's on the left you would still get bypassed signal if you did this but no effect signal
> 
> ...


Here is a picture of the wiring


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## Chuck D. Bones (Mar 18, 2021)

Satorion said:


> Opc:s measured:
> 
> Ic1 1,459v
> 
> ...



I don't understand these measurements.  Measure pin 1 to ground, then pin 7 to ground.  Most of these are out of whack, so please recheck.


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## Satorion (Mar 18, 2021)

Measured again.. 
Ic1: pin1 4,59v, pin7 1,46v

Ic2a: pin1 4,59v, pin7 4,59v
Ic3a: pin1 1,44v, pin7 1,418v
Ic4a: pin1 1,453v, pin7 1,442v

Ic2b: pin1 4,59v, pin7 4,59v
Ic3b: pin1 1,467v, pin7 1,442v
Ic4b: pin1 1,449v, pin7 1,44v


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## Chuck D. Bones (Mar 18, 2021)

Satorion said:


> Measured again..
> Ic1: pin1 4,59v, pin7 1,46v  <---- PROBLEM
> 
> Ic2a: pin1 4,59v, pin7 4,59v
> ...



All pins should read close to 4.5V.  IC1-7 is the wrong voltage and that affects IC3 & 4 (both channels). Check R35 & R36, one of them is probably the wrong value.  Either that or there is a short or bad solder joint on the board.  Measure the voltage on each side of R35 (one at a time, w.r.t. gnd).  Then measure IC1-5.


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## Satorion (Mar 18, 2021)

Correct values on both. R35 measured 4,59v on one side and 8,83v on the other
Ic1 pin1 4,59v, pin2 8,82v, pin3 4,59v, pin4 1,463v, pin5 4,59v


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## Chuck D. Bones (Mar 18, 2021)

Something is very wrong.  Where are you grounding your meter?

Make sure you know which pin is which:


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## Satorion (Mar 19, 2021)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Something is very wrong.  Where are you grounding your meter?
> 
> Make sure you know which pin is which:
> View attachment 10471


Thanks for the ic numbers, not shure i got those right when i look at it now. Got to check again!


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## Satorion (Mar 19, 2021)

Measured yet again, sorry for my fumbling.. 
Ic1: pin1 4,59v, pin7 1,465v
Ic2a: pin1 4,59v, pin7 4,59v
Ic3a: pin1 1,445v, pin7 1,447v
Ic4a: pin1 1,457v, pin7 1,455v

Ic2b: pin1 4,59v, pin7 4,59v
Ic3b: pin1 1,472v, pin7 1,471v
Ic4b: pin1 1,455v, pin7 1,454v


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## Chuck D. Bones (Mar 19, 2021)

IC1 Pin 7 i still messed up.  Check pin 5 again.  We're very close to the root of the problem.


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## Satorion (Mar 17, 2021)

Hello

My name is Jimmy from Finland and new member here. Finished my first build but no sound. Sound goes thru the pedal when its of and when i press the left button. But goes silent when i press the button on the right, weird.. Have no clue were to start looking? Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## Satorion (Mar 19, 2021)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> IC1 Pin 7 i still messed up.  Check pin 5 again.  We're very close to the root of the problem.


Pin 5 measured 4,59v


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## Chuck D. Bones (Mar 19, 2021)

I'm thinking IC1is either damaged or not soldered properly.  Visual inspection of the solder joints on IC1 is req'd.  Only other possibility is something connected to IC1-7 is loading it down.  IC1 pins 5, 6 & 7 should all be the same voltage.


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## Satorion (Mar 19, 2021)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I'm thinking IC1is either damaged or not soldered properly.  Visual inspection of the solder joints on IC1 is req'd.  Only other possibility is something connected to IC1-7 is loading it down.  IC1 pins 5, 6 & 7 should all be the same voltage.


Ok, will check it tomorrow. Thanks for your suggestions!


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## Satorion (Mar 20, 2021)

Found one problem at least, one of the legs was bent and not soldered at all on IC1. Desoldered and changed the ic for new one just in case. Now when connecting power two of the leds light up which did not work before. But still no distortion, just clean signal that goes thru like before. Still have not measured the voltages to see If they have changed..


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## Chuck D. Bones (Mar 20, 2021)

Good find, keep looking...


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## Barry (Mar 20, 2021)

That first resistor behind the 22n cap looks to have very little solder


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