# SOFTii Overdrive



## potierrez

Here it is my new built pedal!
I have noticed that it has little headroom and in stoner mode it has too much ground noise. Could it be the transistors?
I have put PN4393 instead of MPF4393


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## chongmagic

Looks awesome, loved the stamped enclosure. For what it is worth, I have read that many of the Catalinbread designs are noisy. It could be inherent to the circuit. I don't see any issues with your off-board wiring that would create an issue. You could try shielded wiring, not sure if it would help.


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## potierrez

chongmagic said:


> Looks awesome, loved the stamped enclosure. For what it is worth, I have read that many of the Catalinbread designs are noisy. It could be inherent to the circuit. I don't see any issues with your off-board wiring that would create an issue. You could try shielded wiring, not sure if it would help.



Thank you!! Stamp letters looks nice!!

In principle I worry more about the headroom, it breaks very soon, than the ground noise. And that's why I asked about the transistors. Maybe one of them is wrong ...


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## Barry

Sure looks great, hopefully you can get it sounding like you want!


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## potierrez

I have plugged the pedal today with calm and i´m still thinking that bass knob adds too mud to the sound but i hear it with less gain and more headroom than the other day . . . maybe i will try the other transistors but the pedal is ok!


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## Chuck D. Bones

Very cool look!  My DLS Mk 3 (Covert) is very quiet.  If you have hum, short out the input and see if it goes away.  These pedals have a shit-ton of gain, so even a little bit of hum or noise coming in gets magnified.  There is no "clean" setting, unless you back off on the guitar volume.


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## potierrez

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Very cool look!  My DLS Mk 3 (Covert) is very quiet.  If you have hum, short out the input and see if it goes away.  These pedals have a shit-ton of gain, so even a little bit of hum or noise coming in gets magnified.  There is no "clean" setting, unless you back off on the guitar volume.



Hello! Thank you for the advice!! In stoner mode there is so much noise, when you turn up to the maximun the gain knob appears feedback .. . 
I have tried short out the input but it doesn´t go away.

What transistors have you put on Covert?

Thanks again!


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## Chuck D. Bones

I used NOS MPF4393.  My source has since dried up.  Any N-channel JFET with Vp around -2V will work.  Your build looks good.  My only suggestions for dealing with oscillation is to route the input and output wires away from the board, along the sidewalls of the box and make sure the pots and jacks make good metal-to-metal contact with the box.  Something to consider with Boutique pedals: it's possible that some combinations of control settings will cause problems.  Look online for demos of this pedal and see if anyone turns the GAIN up all the way in Stoner Mode.


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## potierrez

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I used NOS MPF4393.  My source has since dried up.  Any N-channel JFET with Vp around -2V will work.  Your build looks good.  My only suggestions for dealing with oscillation is to route the input and output wires away from the board, along the sidewalls of the box and make sure the pots and jacks make good metal-to-metal contact with the box.  Something to consider with Boutique pedals: it's possible that some combinations of control settings will cause problems.  Look online for demos of this pedal and see if anyone turns the GAIN up all the way in Stoner Mode.


Thanks again! I tried wiring along the sidewalls and same noise. Maybe I will change transistors, but I like some configurations of the pedal right now. Not so bad ....


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## Chuck D. Bones

Can you describe the noise or upload a sound clip?


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## cooder

I have just finished one and used PN4393 transistors, I don't find mine overly noisy. I mostly use lower gain settings but even if I crank it up (and boy it does have gobs of gain...) it seems comparable to other high gain pedals noise wise. Maybe there's something else on yours...? I will check later again on very extreme gain settings and will let you know if I find anything like you describe.


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## potierrez

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Can you describe the noise or upload a sound clip?



Hi!

I am thinking that maybe the pedal is like this and that noise is normal and bass control is muddy. I play with single coil pickup and that not helps .. .

Here it is an audio with no guitar plugged. First withput pedal, second with pedal in stones mode and last with stoner:

Clip 1 (No guitar)

And here it is a loop, first clean sound, then activating pedal and changing Bass control, gain, stoner, all knobs up, stones:

Clip 2 with loop

And Clip 3, without input activating pedal, mode stoner and goes form 0 to all with the gain:

Clip 3 (feedback)


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## potierrez

cooder said:


> I have just finished one and used PN4393 transistors, I don't find mine overly noisy. I mostly use lower gain settings but even if I crank it up (and boy it does have gobs of gain...) it seems comparable to other high gain pedals noise wise. Maybe there's something else on yours...? I will check later again on very extreme gain settings and will let you know if I find anything like you describe.



Thank you! It is a relief that with PN transistor works well the pedal. I dont know, maybe it my perception or my expectatives. There is some configurations that sounds well for me .. .


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## potierrez

This afternoon i could try the pedal on an amp (at home i play with headphones and iridium) and i have noticed that it has more ground noise than habitual (also on mode stones mode). What can I do to reduce it?


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## Jiuk

Original catalinbread pedal using carbon film resistors and carbon composition resistors. If you make your pedal using metal film resistors,, you will be disappoint your pedal sound.






						Catalinbread - SFT REV 2
					

Someone share me the SFT REV 2 for the week, so I take pictures and get values of capacitors and pots, maybe it can help for helping debugging the previous tracing. This is pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/p76h70dy0ch3wkn/AACdRnEuL0o7n_CG8ttR24Bxa I




					freestompboxes.org
				



Look picture of PCB and change all resistors like original pedal.


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## potierrez

Jiuk said:


> Original catalinbread pedal using carbon film resistors and carbon composition resistors. If you make your pedal using metal film resistors,, you will be disappoint your pedal sound.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Catalinbread - SFT REV 2
> 
> 
> Someone share me the SFT REV 2 for the week, so I take pictures and get values of capacitors and pots, maybe it can help for helping debugging the previous tracing. This is pictures: https://www.dropbox.com/sc/p76h70dy0ch3wkn/AACdRnEuL0o7n_CG8ttR24Bxa I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> freestompboxes.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look picture of PCB and change all resistors like original pedal.




Thank you! I thought the carbon ones are noisy than metal resistors, although I have enough insecurity desoldering, I think I'm going to try to change them.

Any advice to desolder?

What´s the tonal differences between composition and film?


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## Jiuk

potierrez said:


> Thank you! I thought the carbon ones are noisy than metal resistors, although I have enough insecurity desoldering, I think I'm going to try to change them.
> 
> Any advice to desolder?
> 
> What´s the tonal differences between composition and film?



Carbon composition resistor make vintage amp sound. No high frequency and very strong middle frequency. But all vintage amplifiers had these resistors. 

This PCB has very small hole, so it's not easy to desolder. I'm not a experts so I can't give any advice but you have to desolder very very carefully.


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## potierrez

Maybe I will replace resistors carefully.. . .
One thing i have noticed is when you remove the lid and leave the box without closing the background noise increases more than other pedals.


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## Nostradoomus

potierrez said:


> Maybe I will replace resistors carefully.. . .
> One thing i have noticed is when you remove the lid and leave the box without closing the background noise increases more than other pedals.











						Faraday cage - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## potierrez

Nostradoomus said:


> Faraday cage - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org



Yeah! It´s the same that is used on guitars. 

What I wanted to say is that in this pedal there is more noise than in others when opening the box.


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## Bret608

Personally I am wondering if you have created a ground loop by grounding both of your in/out jacks to the circuit board. Sometimes this happens with high-gain circuits whereas it would be fine with something lower gain. If you carefully heat the solder joint for the out jack wire on the circuit board, you could pull it out for the moment and see if it helps. If not, reheat the joint and just slide it back in.


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## zgrav

It is unlikely that using carbon resistors that are the same value as metal film resistors will actually change the sounds you hear in a pedal.  There reportedly are frequencies at high voltages where there are measurable differences between the two types, but not in a place that is likely to affect what we hear from a pedal (including harmonic and intermodulation interactions).

There may be a lot of reasons a pedal with carbon comp resistors sounds different than the same pedal with metal film resistors, but the composition of those resistors is not likely to be the reason.  Differences in the actual resistances between the two are more likely to impact the sounds since the carbon resistors usually have wider tolerances.  And differences in the semi-conductors will also be a factor.

Of course folks that buy pedals may be willing to pay a premium for carbon resistors and NOS parts because some folks chase that WU factor, so that is another consideration if you are building pedals for resale regardless of whether anyone could actually hear a difference.


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## potierrez

Bret608 said:


> Personally I am wondering if you have created a ground loop by grounding both of your in/out jacks to the circuit board. Sometimes this happens with high-gain circuits whereas it would be fine with something lower gain. If you carefully heat the solder joint for the out jack wire on the circuit board, you could pull it out for the moment and see if it helps. If not, reheat the joint and just slide it back in.



Thanks a lot!!

I have tried it and it seems that it hasn't changed the noise. Today I have played with a digital pedal (source audio LA Lady) which recreates Bender and the noise was high. It wasn't the same noise but I have decide that at the moment I won´t change anything on the pedal. Maybe groundig could be better but my guitar are noisy and maybe my power supply too (Jim Dunlop Brick).


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## potierrez

zgrav said:


> It is unlikely that using carbon resistors that are the same value as metal film resistors will actually change the sounds you hear in a pedal.  There reportedly are frequencies at high voltages where there are measurable differences between the two types, but not in a place that is likely to affect what we hear from a pedal (including harmonic and intermodulation interactions).
> 
> There may be a lot of reasons a pedal with carbon comp resistors sounds different than the same pedal with metal film resistors, but the composition of those resistors is not likely to be the reason.  Differences in the actual resistances between the two are more likely to impact the sounds since the carbon resistors usually have wider tolerances.  And differences in the semi-conductors will also be a factor.
> 
> Of course folks that buy pedals may be willing to pay a premium for carbon resistors and NOS parts because some folks chase that WU factor, so that is another consideration if you are building pedals for resale regardless of whether anyone could actually hear a difference.



These words are so helpful for me. I have decided that I won´t change anything on the pedal.. . .
Thanks!


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## GeezerFuxler

You can also try to use it at 18v. 
Please check if the parts you used can handle it first!
This will not solve your noise issues but the pedal will have more headroom.
I am using my softii with bass guitar. The stoner mode is unusable but at low gain settings it performs nicely.
Still, even with bass guitar the bass knob seems too muddy and I have to use it carefully.


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## potierrez

GeezerFuxler said:


> You can also try to use it at 18v.
> Please check if the parts you used can handle it first!
> This will not solve your noise issues but the pedal will have more headroom.
> I am using my softii with bass guitar. The stoner mode is unusable but at low gain settings it performs nicely.
> Still, even with bass guitar the bass knob seems too muddy and I have to use it carefully.



 Very helpful! I will try it! Good to hear about the bass knob!


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## Chuck D. Bones

Bret608 said:


> Personally I am wondering if you have created a ground loop by grounding both of your in/out jacks to the circuit board. Sometimes this happens with high-gain circuits whereas it would be fine with something lower gain. If you carefully heat the solder joint for the out jack wire on the circuit board, you could pull it out for the moment and see if it helps. If not, reheat the joint and just slide it back in.



I seriously doubt there is a ground loop in the pedal.  To be sure, grounding is a tricky thing and what works in one situation may not work well in another.  There is a concept known as "single-point grounding."  Without getting into the theory, the idea is to control where the ground return currents flow.  With a guitar pedal, the currents are tiny, the frequencies are low and the box dimensions are small.  For all practical purposes, the entire pedal can be thought of as one single-point ground.  What that means is you can ground everything that should be grounded any place you like inside the box and it won't make any difference, as long as they all connect together somehow.  I have _never _had a problem with a pedal that was caused by too many internal ground connections. Power amplifiers are a different story because of the larger dimensions, higher currents and stray EM fields from the transformers.

The SFTii pedal is more sensitive to 60Hz (50Hz if you live in a 3rd-world country like England) pickup because it has very high gain.  Scraping paint off of the mating surfaces between the case & bottom cover will make the Faraday Cage more effective.


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## music6000

potierrez said:


> Here it is my new built pedal!
> I have noticed that it has little headroom and in stoner mode it has too much ground noise. Could it be the transistors?
> I have put PN4393 instead of MPF4393
> 
> 
> View attachment 3099
> View attachment 3100
> View attachment 3101


Here is a Demo from the Man himself, Howard Gee who created this circuit.
If you can't replicate what he is achieving , then something is amiss.
Note the Bass & Treble settings he suggests , The Bass will sound bloated above 12.00 O'clock.
Sadly, He is no longer with Catalinbread with a change in Ownership recently after Creator Nicholas Harris tragic passing a couple of years ago.
I wish Howard Gee all the Best in his new endeavour's, A Talented Guitarist who also knows how to build pedals!


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## Chuck D. Bones

Very cool video.  I wasn't sure I wanted an SFT pedal.  After listening to Howard Gee, all doubt was erased.


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## Bret608

I agree! It sounds really good. I hadn't thought much about this circuit before, but I'm pretty sure I saw recently that Adam Franklin from Swervedriver is using the SFT these days.


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## music6000

potierrez said:


> Here it is my new built pedal!
> I have noticed that it has little headroom and in stoner mode it has too much ground noise. Could it be the transistors?
> I have put PN4393 instead of MPF4393
> 
> 
> View attachment 3099
> View attachment 3100
> View attachment 3101


Can you check you voltages on the PN4393, They should be close to this. DMM on DC Voltage, Black probe to Chassis, Red probe to Drain.
Can you write down your readings & report back.


Q1 4.5v to 5v
Q2 9.4v
Q3 4.5v to 5v
Q4 9.4v
Q5 4.5v to 5v
Q6 9.4v


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## music6000

I think you will find that the voltages are not where they should be as listed, Hence the lack of Headroom & Noise.


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## potierrez

music6000 said:


> Can you check you voltages on the PN4393, They should be close to this. DMM on DC Voltage, Black probe to Chassis, Red probe to Drain.
> Can you write down your readings & report back.
> 
> 
> Q1 4.5v to 5v
> Q2 9.4v
> Q3 4.5v to 5v
> Q4 9.4v
> Q5 4.5v to 5v
> Q6 9.4v
> 
> View attachment 3244



Hi !!

Here they are my measurements:

Q1: 4,34 v
Q2: 8,84 v
Q3: 2,3 v
Q4: 8,84 v
Q5: 5,04 v
Q6: 8,84 v


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## Chuck D. Bones

Those voltages look correct.  Q3-D should be lower than Q1-D because R10 runs Q3 & Q4 at a higher drain current than Q1 & Q2.


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## potierrez

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I seriously doubt there is a ground loop in the pedal.  To be sure, grounding is a tricky thing and what works in one situation may not work well in another.  There is a concept known as "single-point grounding."  Without getting into the theory, the idea is to control where the ground return currents flow.  With a guitar pedal, the currents are tiny, the frequencies are low and the box dimensions are small.  For all practical purposes, the entire pedal can be thought of as one single-point ground.  What that means is you can ground everything that should be grounded any place you like inside the box and it won't make any difference, as long as they all connect together somehow.  I have _never _had a problem with a pedal that was caused by too many internal ground connections. Power amplifiers are a different story because of the larger dimensions, higher currents and stray EM fields from the transformers.
> 
> The SFTii pedal is more sensitive to 60Hz (50Hz if you live in a 3rd-world country like England) pickup because it has very high gain.  Scraping paint off of the mating surfaces between the case & bottom cover will make the Faraday Cage more effective.



I have scraped off join between case and cover. I also put the four screws (I only put two). And, i don´t know, I think is a little bit less noise. . .


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## music6000

potierrez said:


> Hi !!
> 
> Here they are my measurements:
> 
> Q1: 4,34 v
> Q2: 8,84 v
> Q3: 2,3 v
> Q4: 8,84 v
> Q5: 5,04 v
> Q6: 8,84 v


Try putting Q3 in Q5 position & Q5 to Q3 position & repeat all Transistor voltages & report back.

Cheers music6000


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## Chuck D. Bones

Swapping transistors won't change anything because they are all working correctly.


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## music6000

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Swapping transistors won't change anything because they are all working correctly.


Let's call it the process of Elimination.
If he gets a different reading, we have a questionable PN4393.


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## potierrez

music6000 said:


> Try putting Q3 in Q5 position & Q5 to Q3 position & repeat all Transistor voltages & report back.
> 
> Cheers music6000



Q1: 4,06 v  (4,34v)
Q2: 8,84 v  (8,84v)
Q3: 3,17 v  (2,30v)
Q4: 8,84 v  (8,84v)
Q5: 4,84 v  (5,04v)
Q6: 8,84 v  (8,85v)


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## music6000

potierrez said:


> Q1: 4,06 v  (4,34v)
> Q2: 8,84 v  (8,84v)
> Q3: 3,17 v  (2,30v)
> Q4: 8,84 v  (8,84v)
> Q5: 4,84 v  (5,04v)
> Q6: 8,84 v  (8,85v)


Have you tested to see if you have more headroom now & lesser noise in stoner mode


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## music6000

The other Big question is what power supply are you using. Are you sharing (Daisy Chained)  with Digital Effects?


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## potierrez

If I'm honest, it's hard for me to be objective. I don't know if it improves or it is my desire to improve. The fact is that I see it better. I also watched an amateur video and heard more noise than the professional demos. I have to see Howard's video to see about the range of the controls and you always learn something with his videos.


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## potierrez

music6000 said:


> The other Big question is what power supply are you using. Are you sharing (Daisy Chained)  with Digital Effects?



I have a jim dunlop brick and it is one thing that i have to improve. Next thing to purchase should be a cioks or strymon power supply.


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## music6000

potierrez said:


> I have a jim dunlop brick and it is one thing that i have to improve. Next thing to purchase should be a cioks or strymon power supply.


I would like to try bringing up the voltage on Q3, 
That would mean removing R4 - 10K (Highlighted in Red on PCB) & replacing it with a temporary external pot.
This is easy enough, Just make a small hook to get under the resistor lead with easy access.
Heat the pad and lift gently till resistor pops out on one end & then easy access to heat & lift out resistor from remaining pad.

A  B10K Pot will do.
Make the wires long enough to be outside the enclosure, Solder a wire to Pot Lug 2 & another wire to Pot Lug 1.
Attach 1 wire to R10 Solder Pad & other wire to opposite R10 Solder pad, creating a trimmer.
Now measure Q3 Drain & adjust Trimmer to 4.5v.
*Do not knock or adjust Pot when set.*
When you have achieved this, Plug the pedal in and see if there is a significant improvement.


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