# Pcbguitarmania vu-tron



## NSJ (Apr 20, 2022)

Has anyone tried this and got good results? 



			https://pcbguitarmania.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Vutron-Building-Docs.pdf
		


Very few clones of mutron out there. Would’ve loved if PP carried it.


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## ICTRock (Apr 21, 2022)

Given the choice, I'd probably prefer the madbean kraken


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## Bricksnbeatles (Apr 21, 2022)

I know they're two different beasts altogether, but I'd really recommend something based on the Mu-Tron III envelope filter, like the Fuzz Dog MOO-Tron, rather than the Vutron which is based on the Mu-Tron V envelope filter. If you're looking for a V-styled filter, I'm sure any of the available PCBs are great, but if you're looking for the classic Mu-Tron sound, as well as what I consider to be a much better filter in every way, you'll really want a III-styled filter.


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

I have built one and it’s meh/alright. Low part count so pretty easy. The Madbean MiniMu blows it out of the water.


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

ICTRock said:


> Given the choice, I'd probably prefer the madbean kraken


Thanks for reply. Any particular reason you prefer kraken over vutron?


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Bricksnbeatles said:


> I know they're two different beasts altogether, but I'd really recommend something based on the Mu-Tron III envelope filter, like the Fuzz Dog MOO-Tron, rather than the Vutron which is based on the Mu-Tron V envelope filter. If you're looking for a V-styled filter, I'm sure any of the available PCBs are great, but if you're looking for the classic Mu-Tron sound, as well as what I consider to be a much better filter in every way, you'll really want a III-styled filter.


Thanks will check them out. This is for bass guitar btw. Not sure if it matters.


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Diynot said:


> I have built one and it’s meh/alright. Low part count so pretty easy. The Madbean MiniMu blows it out of the water.


Good to know! 

Any chance you’ve a voltage map with 13700 IC? I pretty much traced the entire circuit for smoking Gun and I’m ready to give up. 

Bypass works fine. When effect is turned on, I only get cleanish with less treble. No filter effect at all. I’ve checked wiring, component values, solder shorts and replaced ICs. I do get supplies correctly at IC pins vc 9v and vb 4.9ish. And have traced the Transistor voltages and pinouts. Using exact components per BOM, except 5088 instead of 5089. Rest are all per BOM.

Gotta check out other options from you guys .


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## Betty Wont (Apr 21, 2022)

ICTRock said:


> Given the choice, I'd probably prefer the madbean kraken





NSJ said:


> Thanks for reply. Any particular reason you prefer kraken over vutron?


Madbean does a better job with layouts and documentation. pcbguitarwhatshisfuck lifts Madbean's designs, poorly. Just go to the source and talent and support a better human being.


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Good to know!
> 
> Any chance you’ve a voltage map with 13700 IC? I pretty much traced the entire circuit for smoking Gun and I’m ready to give up.
> 
> ...


I can check later and get some voltages for you. Can you please post some pictures of your board, Component and solder side along with the off board wiring (jacks/power/switch)


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

Betty Wont said:


> Madbean does a better job with layouts and documentation. pcbguitarwhatshisfuck lifts Madbean's designs, poorly. Just go to the source and talent and support a better human being.


That damn cosmos delay is the only pedal (from any pcb supplier) thus far I have not been able to troubleshoot or get working properly.


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## Harry Klippton (Apr 21, 2022)

Diynot said:


> That damn cosmos delay is the only pedal (from any pcb supplier) thus far I have not been able to troubleshoot or get working properly.


Has anyone ever successfully built one? I've never seen it


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Diynot said:


> I can check later and get some voltages for you. Can you please post some pictures of your board, Component and solder side along with the off board wiring (jacks/power/switch)


Will do in a bit. I did have to go through lot of pain to replace stuff due to troubleshooting. It is definitely not a pretty sight. Interestingly, whatever I’ve done to it hasn’t changed the behavior at all since the beginning, which means I’m not looking at the right place or something weird with pcb. I did find one of pots needs 2-3 to be shorted per schematic but are not shorted on pcb. 

Even if it is not the best effect out there, I’d like to not let this board go to waste. So hopefully I can resurrect it. If not then I’ll move on to better options suggested by pretty much all of you. 

Lesson learned: First check in here with the pros before taking up a non-ppcb project. 🤘🙂


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> Has anyone ever successfully built one? I've never seen it


Same with the vu-tron. I haven’t seen any activity online. Although they’ve a “5k+ strong private group” on Facebook. I could go join Facebook just to get an idea about troubleshooting from that “private group”. But I prefer here and worst case I’ll Chuck the pcb and go other options.


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## ICTRock (Apr 21, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Thanks for reply. Any particular reason you prefer kraken over vutron?


madbean is a respected member of the DIY community, pcbguitarmania is not.


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> Has anyone ever successfully built one? I've never seen it


Only thing I have seen is troubleshooting requests on aforementioned Facebook group. Only reason I joined the group was for that build. For what it’s worth, I did build the vu-tron and their master phaser (maestro phaser) which both work, but have not bought anything from them since, nor will I
Edit: the only reason I built the master phaser is because they sent me that instead of the vu-tron. Had to contact them to send me the right board


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Diynot said:


> I can check later and get some voltages for you. Can you please post some pictures of your board, Component and solder side along with the off board wiring (jacks/power/switch)


It looks bad but I’ve made sure no blobs and accidental shorts are there. Again, not my usual work style but never had so much bad luck with any ppcb boards so far.

Let me know if quality of pics is horrible. I’ll try to zip higher quality pics. 

Hope I can resurrect this board by comparing your notes. Or if you see any visual obvious stupidity that I will gladly rectify. 🙂🤘


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## Gordo (Apr 21, 2022)

The 5088 and 5089 aren't interchangeable.


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

Gordo said:


> The 5088 and 5089 aren't interchangeable.


I wondered ab that, but I was thinking the 5089 was a PNP, but upon google search I retracted my thought. Guess I need to look at some datasheets to figure out the differences between 5088 and 89


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Gordo said:


> The 5088 and 5089 aren't interchangeable.


I did try nte47 prior to that as well- which is claimed to be a direct equivalent of 5089. Those are only ones I could source in USA. I do rightly have 5087 for the pnp. 

What would be the differences in the context of this circuit? Do you mean pinout wise they’re different or straight up completely different parts from functionality and bias requirements?


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Diynot said:


> I wondered ab that, but I was thinking the 5089 was a PNP, but upon google search I retracted my thought. Guess I need to look at some datasheets to figure out the differences between 5088 and 89


I’ll dig in too. 5089 is npn and 5087 is pnp. I’ve in the past successfully used 5088 in place of 5089. But this could very well be circuit dependent. Not sure. 

From what in remember, 5089 is low noise brother of 5088. But maybe I missed something major in the context of vu-tron.


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## NSJ (Apr 20, 2022)

Has anyone tried this and got good results? 



			https://pcbguitarmania.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Vutron-Building-Docs.pdf
		


Very few clones of mutron out there. Would’ve loved if PP carried it.


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Just checked kraken and it does use 5088s. AFAI can see the circuit in context of the NPN is identical except kraken uses ca3080. And the replacement 16pin 13700n is indeed the selling point for pcbguitarmania. I wonder if the Vb generated using 5088 is different then 5089. 



			https://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/_folders/FilterMod/pdf/Kraken2020.pdf
		


There is a voltage map here on pg13. At least I can compare some of them with mine. 

@Diynot what transistors did you use for your build?


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

I do see 5089 in stock at digikey.





						2N5089 PBFREE Central Semiconductor Corp | Discrete Semiconductor Products | DigiKey
					

Order today, ships today. 2N5089 PBFREE – Bipolar (BJT) Transistor NPN 25 V 50 mA 50MHz 625 mW Through Hole TO-92-3 from Central Semiconductor Corp. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.




					www.digikey.com
				




 Let me try those first. Thanks all! 🙂


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Just checked kraken and it does use 5088s. AFAI can see the circuit in context of the NPN is identical except kraken uses ca3080. And the replacement 16pin 13700n is indeed the selling point for pcbguitarmania. I wonder if the Vb generated using 5088 is different then 5089.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I used 5089 and 87


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

So just to be sure, you have gone through and verified your resistor/cap values, correct?


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Diynot said:


> So just to be sure, you have gone through and verified your resistor/cap values, correct?


Yes, I’ve twice. I think I’m pretty sure about that. 

I’m thinking based on @Gordo comments and the fact you’re following BOM as well, it’s very clear that I’m off-base here. Just ordered 5089s. I’ll keep you all posted.


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Yes, I’ve twice. I think I’m pretty sure about that.
> 
> I’m thinking based on @Gordo comments and the fact you’re following BOM as well, it’s very clear that I’m off-base here. Just ordered 5089s. I’ll keep you all posted.


Maybe the higher gain of the 5089 is needed to open the envelope?


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## Diynot (Apr 21, 2022)

One last thing, probably one of the best things you can do at this point and I say this in the most supportive way possible knowing that you said this is not representative of your normal work, but try and tighten up your build while you are waiting on those 5089s. Make sure the components are tight to the board, the solder joints are good no bridges/cold joints, Clean the board, and replace any parts the might have been damaged during troubleshooting.


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## NSJ (Apr 21, 2022)

Agree. Working on it right now. Hope the new transistors fix my issue.


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## NSJ (Apr 28, 2022)

Some update:

I tried new 5089 from digikey. Same issue. No effect. So I ordered a new pcb from pcbguitarmania, since I was building this for a good friend’s bassist and my enclosure labels matched it. 

Pcbguitarmania takes forever to fulfill orders - either he is shipping 1k units a day or … anyways, the new one isn’t shipped yet so I had time to debug. Decided to perform a full connectivity check. 

Found a clear missing link from R12 to the Range pot. Never ever have I found this on ppcb or other sites. Not sure if missing connects are normal. I hope not.. coz they’re painful to find. 

Shorted that link and it works! 5088 works as well. The NTE equivalent transistors work too. Have to say the effect circuit is absolutely fun! I’m glad it sounded so good after all this bs. 

Now I’m sitting on bunch of 5089s, 13700N and extra pcb of vutron…


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## Harry Klippton (Apr 28, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Some update:
> 
> I tried new 5089 from digikey. Same issue. No effect. So I ordered a new pcb from pcbguitarmania, since I was building this for a good friend’s bassist and my enclosure labels matched it.
> 
> ...


Too bad you gave them more money


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## NSJ (Apr 28, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> Too bad you gave them more money


For the last time. I was desperate to not make another enclosure. Madbeans labels are flipped. Lots of lessons learned here.


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## Harry Klippton (Apr 28, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Lots of lessons learned here.


That's worth something though. And you got your first board working. Nice work


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## Diynot (Apr 28, 2022)

I work in software support and sometimes having to fix shit that’s broke is the quickest way to learn. Glad you got the pedal going.


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## Diynot (Apr 28, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Some update:
> 
> Now I’m sitting on bunch of 5089s, 13700N and extra pcb of vutron…


Not a bad place to be sitting, plenty of circuits out there to use the 5089s and 13700s in


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## NSJ (Apr 28, 2022)

Diynot said:


> Not a bad place to be sitting, plenty of circuits out there to use the 5089s and 13700s in


I was wondering about that. I know lovepedal uses 5089s quite a lot. Some Ross compressor clones use 13700n and some other filter circuits. 
I’m not much of a filter guy. This bruised and battered vutron will serve me well for a long time. If you’ve any other suggestions please let me know.


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## Feral Feline (Apr 28, 2022)

You can use the 5089s just about anywhere you use a 5088.

The 13700 is used on compressor circuits other than just Ross clones...

If you tell PCBGuitarMania you have an issue with the board, he'll likely send you the new one for free or give you a store credit (though you may not want another PCB from PCBGM).


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## NSJ (Apr 28, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> If you tell PCBGuitarMania you have an issue with the board, he'll likely send you the new one for free or give you a store credit (though you may not want another PCB from PCBGM).


Trust me I’ve asked him. He is well aware of my (painful) journey of vutron. He has been responsive throughout… although with absolutely zero productive suggestions. He responded to my email detailing the issue with a “maybe a factory issue of your PCB”. 

But he has stopped responding since my last email requesting a refund or any adjustment to the new order. I ordered The second pcb on april 21. No status updates on it. I asked him can he check if the new pcb I ordered has this issue. No response.


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## Feral Feline (Apr 28, 2022)

Your experience mirrors my own (order was missing PCBs, extras of others). I ordered from him when he first started up, so he bent over backwards to make it right and even gave me a PCB that wasn't even available from his store (available now, though), but no build docs. So a year later I finally traced the freebie PCB myself and made my own schematic, did the same for the Fuzz Gun PCB (again, no build docs for over a year) — he said I could have a Sagan Delay for my schematic efforts. I never took him up on the offer, and just as well — from what I've read a lot of people trying to build the Sagan Delay are running into problems with that board. 

He's enthusiastic, but careless and not detail-oriented, so I guess since he first started up he's now tired of bending over backwards to fix things. 

I've still got a few of his boards to build, one of which I know has issues from other people building it. If I'd built it up right away I probably wouldn't have been able to figure out what's wrong, 'cause I'd just assume the PCB is good. Now I'll be ready for anything on those remaining PCBGM builds.

Good luck with your incoming Vutron.


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## NSJ (Apr 28, 2022)

With all what you said I’m impressed my first board has only one trace missing 😂

I’ll give him another day or two to respond. 🤞


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## Diynot (Apr 28, 2022)

NSJ said:


> I was wondering about that. I know lovepedal uses 5089s quite a lot. Some Ross compressor clones use 13700n and some other filter circuits.
> I’m not much of a filter guy. This bruised and battered vutron will serve me well for a long time. If you’ve any other suggestions please let me know.


Looking through my past build docs, these are projects I’ve built that use an lm13700 (plus or minus a ton more parts:
PPCB- Minnow, Lowtide
Aion fx- Tri-vibe
Lectric fx- Abacus (also uses a ton of 5088 that you might be able use those 5089s in)
Pcbmania (if you want to roll the dice again)-     Master phaser it’s a maestro phaser clone so you might be able to find a similar board elsewhere


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## NSJ (Apr 20, 2022)

Has anyone tried this and got good results? 



			https://pcbguitarmania.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Vutron-Building-Docs.pdf
		


Very few clones of mutron out there. Would’ve loved if PP carried it.


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## Feral Feline (Apr 28, 2022)

Madbean Stage Fright is a Maestro MP-1 Phaser.


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## Fuzzonaut (Apr 29, 2022)

NSJ said:


> Some update:
> 
> Found a clear missing link from R12 to the Range pot. Never ever have I found this on ppcb or other sites. Not sure if missing connects are normal. I hope not.. coz they’re painful to find.





NSJ said:


> With all what you said I’m impressed my first board has only one trace missing 😂



One missing link ... you were lucky there .... my first, last and only order had a board that needed all this to (maybe?) work, like drilling a hole into the PCB to add a switch ...





He apparently knew about all those problems, as I got this pic when I asked questions.
The promised V2 of the PCB, to make up for this mess, was never sent.


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## NSJ (Apr 29, 2022)

Holy Smokes!!! And he is still in business!!!!!

Btw, I haven't got any update from him regarding my refund or the new order. Shall I dispute with my credit card company?

I'm going to go with Fuzz Dog pedals microV - they've a similar layout PCB.
Let me know if they're good.









						Micro V Filter PCB
					

Please see the kit page for full description. Direct Connect compatible (4 way) Inspired by: Mutron Micro V PCB size: 50 x 50mm




					shop.pedalparts.co.uk


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## Hirti (Apr 29, 2022)

Fuzz Dog is legit! Never had any problems with any of their boards


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## Betty Wont (Apr 29, 2022)

Fuzzdog is an OG. He is one of the good ones.


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## Robert (Apr 29, 2022)

NSJ said:


> I'm going to go with Fuzz Dog pedals microV - *they've a similar layout PCB*.



I suspect this is not a coincidence.   

I've never heard anything negative about Fuzz Dog, I'd say that's a much safer choice.


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## NSJ (Apr 29, 2022)

Robert said:


> I suspect this is not a coincidence.
> 
> I've never heard anything negative about Fuzz Dog, I'd say that's a much safer choice.



Thanks to you @PedalPCB for helping build this safe, honest and detail-oriented community! Hope more people look at this thread or seek reviews on the forum before hitting that 'buy' button. It's always a great learning experience on these threads.


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## cwsquared (Apr 29, 2022)

Let's just say this thread does not give me the "warm squishy" about the 5 PCBs I just ordered from PCB Guitar Mania when I got caught up by the 20% off a few days ago.

Black Mirror VII  (I may be OK here according to @jeffwhitfield's build report, which is half the reason I was over there in the first place)
Lemon Rockverb
Sinner Bass Drive
Chopper Party Device
Kheiron Klon

Worst case, live and learn, I guess.


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## Feral Feline (Apr 29, 2022)

PCBGM makes great drink coasters, so long as you plug all the holes with solder.


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## Betty Wont (Apr 29, 2022)

The biggest issue is that PCBGM releases and sells boards that are unverified and/or with known errors on them and doesn't update the build doc or offer proactive support to those buying borked boards. But he is happy to take your money and the credit for other peoples' work. If you look at his version of the Maestro Phaser it is a direct ripoff of Madbean's Stage Fright, including Madbean's quirky mods like and extra phase stage switch, univibe mod, and CV input. Even his website is a tryhard.


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## Bricksnbeatles (Apr 29, 2022)

FuzzDog is awesome. You shouldn’t have any problems with their board!


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## benny_profane (Apr 29, 2022)

Betty Wont said:


> Even his website is a tryhard.


I laughed way too hard at that.


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## jeffwhitfield (Apr 29, 2022)

cwsquared said:


> Let's just say this thread does not give me the "warm squishy" about the 5 PCBs I just ordered from PCB Guitar Mania when I got caught up by the 20% off a few days ago.
> 
> Black Mirror VII  (I may be OK here according to @jeffwhitfield's build report, which is half the reason I was over there in the first place)
> Lemon Rockverb
> ...


Thankfully, I got the Kherson Klon for free. Even then, my build was jacked right after building it. Something with the buffer. So,yeah, I steer clear of them.


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## cwsquared (Apr 29, 2022)

jeffwhitfield said:


> Thankfully, I got the Kherson Klon for free. Even then, my build was jacked right after building it. Something with the buffer. So,yeah, I steer clear of them.


Well, maybe in my attempt to get my money's worth, I will learn a lot.  Gotta look at the bright side of life.


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## jeffwhitfield (Apr 29, 2022)

cwsquared said:


> Well, maybe in my attempt to get my money's worth, I will learn a lot.  Gotta look at the bright side of life.


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## cwsquared (Apr 29, 2022)

jeffwhitfield said:


>


Exactly what I was thinking when I wrote that sentence.


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## Feral Feline (Apr 30, 2022)

Whee whi, whee whi, whu whu wuh whuh hwuh hwih


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## swelchy (Apr 30, 2022)

ICTRock said:


> madbean is a respected member of the DIY community, pcbguitarmania is not.


Oddly enough the three pcbs I’ve built from them all turned out to be duds… I troubleshot till the cows came home and gave up


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## Feral Feline (Apr 30, 2022)

swelchy said:


> Oddly enough the three pcbs I’ve built from them all turned out to be duds… I troubleshot till the cows came home and gave up


Which ones?

I bought a few bulk packs that were on sale, so...

I've got a dozen or so of the damn drink-coasters and wayyyy too many legit PCBs in the build queue — I may just source the circuits I wanted to try from the bilk-packs [sic] from elsewhere so that I know I won't be wasting time debugging flawed PCBs.

PS: I really hate FecalBrook, and that's where the debugging info for these things is. 😼


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