# Kliché Mini - Low Gain, Very Loud



## jamie j. (Jul 14, 2022)

Hi kids. I have an issue with my Kliché Mini. The gain adjustment does not add a lot of overdrive sound but the pedal is stupid loud. Also, this is the 2nd I've built and the first one works as expected. Everything seems to be in place. I don't see any bleeds or unwanted connections in the solder. Any ideas? Below are pics.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 14, 2022)

Make sure the TREBLE pot body is not contacting anything on the back side of the board.  
I don't see any parts out of place.  Inspect every solder joint under magnification.  Looks like there might be some cold solder joints on the pots.  
If you have a DMM, you can check the Ge diodes in-circuit.


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## jamie j. (Jul 14, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Make sure the TREBLE pot body is not contacting anything on the back side of the board.
> I don't see any parts out of place.  Inspect every solder joint under magnification.  Looks like there might be some cold solder joints on the pots.
> If you have a DMM, you can check the Ge diodes in-circuit.


The treble pot isn't touching. When i soldered it I made sure to pull it up some off the board.

All the solder joints look solid.

I will reflow the solder on the pots.

I checked the Ge diodes and they read the same as the working unit.


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## Oh_Discordia! (Jul 14, 2022)

is that middle IC an 072 or 022?  hard to read


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## jamie j. (Jul 14, 2022)

Lowtide said:


> is that middle IC an 072 or 022?  hard to read


It's a 072. Any chance those could be bad? Is it worth it to try swapping them with the working pedals ICs?


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## jamie j. (Jul 14, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Looks like there might be some cold solder joints on the pots.


I reflowed the solder on the pots. Honestly, they looked fine. I'm thinking it was just the pic but I went ahead and reflowed. No difference.


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## jamie j. (Jul 14, 2022)

I swapped the 072s out and no difference.

I know the charge pump is good b/c they initially sent me the wrong IC but I had a LT1054 sitting around so I used that. Had this problem. Hoped the 1044 would fix the problem but kinda it wouldn't because those are compatible.

So, I'm generally stumped unless it's a bad dual gang pot.


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## jamie j. (Jul 15, 2022)

So, I think I'm going to swap out the dual gang pot today. I have one I can pull from a defunct pedal I built. I'll give that a try and post my results.


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## jamie j. (Jul 15, 2022)

Swapped out the dual gang. No difference. Same issue. I'm running out of things to try. I can reflow all the solder but I already do that. When I cut the leads, I flow the solder again (because I think it looks better than the cut lead). So, I'm thinking this will do nothing but I don't have anything left to try. May do that this weekend. I got another pedal to build and have been putting it off dealing with this. I'm gonna build that one then I'll take a look at this one again. I'll post when I'm done.

In the mean time, if anyone has anything else to throw out there, please do.


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## benny_profane (Jul 15, 2022)

Have you verified the components? Swapping out parts without reason doesn’t make much sense. Go through the board and verify that the caps/resistors are the correct values.


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## jamie j. (Jul 15, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> Have you verified the components? Swapping out parts without reason doesn’t make much sense. Go through the board and verify that the caps/resistors are the correct values.


Yep. Already did that. That’s where I started.


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## jamie j. (Jul 15, 2022)

FYI - I’ve built a hundred plus pedalls & 5 amplifiers. I am not new to this. Been at it for years. But, this has me stumped.


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## benny_profane (Jul 15, 2022)

No one is questioning your ability. Mistakes and issues can happen at any point regardless of the amount of successful builds you've had. Since you've got a control unit, I'd suggest comparing them while using an audio probe. One thing that is sticking out to me is the potential for failure with the Ge diodes. The connection with the body can incur damaging stress when installing them into such a small footprint. Is the GAIN control acting more like a volume control? Is the quality of the distortion the same between the two units? Or, does it seem like you're hearing op-amp clipping with this pedal?


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## jamie j. (Jul 15, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> No one is questioning your ability. Mistakes and issues can happen at any point regardless of the amount of successful builds you've had. Since you've got a control unit, I'd suggest comparing them while using an audio probe. One thing that is sticking out to me is the potential for failure with the Ge diodes. The connection with the body can incur damaging stress when installing them into such a small footprint. Is the GAIN control acting more like a volume control? Is the quality of the distortion the same between the two units? Or, does it seem like you're hearing op-amp clipping with this pedal?


I just wanted it to be clear this isn't my first build and that I have experience in trouble shooting. I've double checked the components and the look for any stray solder connections. I am truly stumped as to what the issue is.

That said, compared to the working one - no, the distortion is not the same. There is way less distortion on the non-working gain pot. It is more like a volume pot. The pedal is stupid louder than the other. I mean, ridiculously loud compared to the working one (which, you know is, loud, but no where neat that loud). If I turn the gain all the way up, I have to turn the volume almost all the way down. I get some distortion, but very light. what I would expect at like 9 o'clock, 10 tops. This is the issue with the pedal.

Like I said, I reflow the solder every time I cut a lead because it just looks neater. That said, I did reflow the solder to the pots (which I don't typically do). I haven't reflowed the IC sockets yet but will start there. Since I don't clip them, I don't tend to reflow them as I go.

I'm trying to give you as much info as I can so you can best help me out. I may try cleaning the board a little better with rubbing alcohol. I did so to begin with but I notice some white smudging in the pics I took.


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## benny_profane (Jul 15, 2022)

Okay. It is my guess that that diodes have been damaged. Can you try subbing them and see if that changes anything? The issue isn’t with the solder joint here, it’s that the diode/lead connection itself may have been damaged and resulted in an open connection. 

I’m taking your word for it that you’ve verified the correct values. I’m generally skeptical about parts values when it comes to these kits because the incidence rate of incorrect parts is quite high.


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## jamie j. (Jul 15, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> Okay. It is my guess that that diodes have been damaged. Can you try subbing them and see if that changes anything? The issue isn’t with the solder joint here, it’s that the diode/lead connection itself may have been damaged and resulted in an open connection.
> 
> I’m taking your word for it that you’ve verified the correct values. I’m generally skeptical about parts values when it comes to these kits because the incidence rate of incorrect parts is quite high.


OK. I have replacement Ge diodes I specifically bought for Klons that I can swap out. But, I took a reading of the diodes on the board and they matched the working pedal - which tells me they are ok. That said, I did it from the top of the board so I'll do it again from the underside and make sure I have the same values.

Also, as far as correct values. I am too meticulous to mess that up. I read every resistor before I put in on the board. Also, if you put something in the wrong spot, something else will no have a spot to go into. I cannot see how you wouldn't catch that. If  I put a 1uF cap in a 4.7uF spot, the 4.7 will no longer have a spot on the board. How can you miss that? That said, I did verify all of the caps and they are most def correct. I've even compared them to the working pedal.


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## swyse (Jul 15, 2022)

Have you checked for continuity between the diodes and ground and the diodes and S4/R12/C11? I would assume the issue is with the diodes in some way, those are giving you the hard clipping and clamping your signal to ~0.3v or whatever the forward voltage of your specific diodes are before its boosted again by the 27v headroom section of the circuit.


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## jamie j. (Jul 15, 2022)

swyse said:


> Have you checked for continuity between the diodes and ground and the diodes and S4/R12/C11? I would assume the issue is with the diodes in some way, those are giving you the hard clipping and clamping your signal to ~0.3v or whatever the forward voltage of your specific diodes are before its boosted again by the 27v headroom section of the circuit.


I have not. When I can get back to it, I’ll do that and let you know the results.


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## Dirty_Boogie (Jul 15, 2022)

Any chance you have a bad Volume pot?  Had a similar issue with my Kliche Mini, and that was it.


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## jamie j. (Jul 16, 2022)

Dirty_Boogie said:


> Any chance you have a bad Volume pot?  Had a similar issue with my Kliche Mini, and that was it.


The volume pot works as expected so I have no reason to think it's bad.


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## jamie j. (Jul 14, 2022)

Hi kids. I have an issue with my Kliché Mini. The gain adjustment does not add a lot of overdrive sound but the pedal is stupid loud. Also, this is the 2nd I've built and the first one works as expected. Everything seems to be in place. I don't see any bleeds or unwanted connections in the solder. Any ideas? Below are pics.


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## jamie j. (Jul 16, 2022)

swyse said:


> Have you checked for continuity between the diodes and ground and the diodes and S4/R12/C11? I would assume the issue is with the diodes in some way, those are giving you the hard clipping and clamping your signal to ~0.3v or whatever the forward voltage of your specific diodes are before its boosted again by the 27v headroom section of the circuit.


Here are my findings...

Looking at the top of the board calling the diodes left and right:

Ground
Left: cathode has continuity to ground
Right: anode has continuity to ground

S4
No continuity to the diodes

C11
Left: cathode has continuity to C11
Right: anode has continuity to C11

R12
Left: cathode has continuity to R12
Right: anode has continuity to R12


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## music6000 (Jul 16, 2022)

Can you test this for Continuity with matching Colour circles:


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## jamie j. (Jul 16, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Can you test this for Continuity with matching Colour circles:
> View attachment 29130


Will do as soon as I can get back to it. I'll post the results here when done. I'm colorblind so let me make sure I'm seeing this right:

Green = Left Ge anode to right Ge cathode to the - power jack (ground, i assume).
Red = the left Ge cathode to right Ge anode to the 1k (R12) resistor to S4.
Orange = 390 cap (C5)  to the 1 lug of the dual gang gain pot.


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## music6000 (Jul 16, 2022)

Yep, It could be damage from S4 trace to right side of R12 ????


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## jamie j. (Jul 16, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Yep, It could be damage from S4 trace to right side of R12 ????


OK. I was wrong earlier about the S4. I did all of the color testing and all had continuity. Not sure how I screwed up the S4/diodes earlier. They do have continuity the way you have the colors mapped out. So, all of that seems good.


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## giovanni (Jul 16, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> OK. I was wrong earlier about the S4. I did all of the color testing and all had continuity. Not sure how I screwed up the S4/diodes earlier. They do have continuity the way you have the colors mapped out. So, all of that seems good.


Did you audio probe it? Do you have a scope?


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## benny_profane (Jul 16, 2022)

Did you try swapping the diodes out? You've just confirmed that the traces are intact. You could even test the diodes by pulling one leg and performing a diode test with the multimeter. They won't test in circuit, though.


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## jamie j. (Jul 16, 2022)

giovanni said:


> Did you audio probe it? Do you have a scope?


I tested for continuity with the MM. I do not own an audio probe. I do own a scope. I’m assuming that since the audio signal does not die that the audio probe/scope won’t tell me much. But I’m not well versed in the scope so my assumption may be incorrect.


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## jamie j. (Jul 16, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> Did you try swapping the diodes out? You've just confirmed that the traces are intact. You could even test the diodes by pulling one leg and performing a diode test with the multimeter. They won't test in circuit, though.


I have not swapped the diodes yet but I can. I did a test with the MM and it seemed to read then fine in the board. When I do a diode test it always beeps and gives me a value. It was the same as the working pedal’s diodes.


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## giovanni (Jul 16, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> I tested for continuity with the MM. I do not own an audio probe. I do own a scope. I’m assuming that since the audio signal does not die that the audio probe/scope won’t tell me much. But I’m not well versed in the scope so my assumption may be incorrect.


You may be able to verify the clipping with a scope since the symptoms seem to point to an issue with that. Or better, you can compare the signal at various points in the circuit with your working unit. The scope will tell you a lot. You do need a probe to use it, but that’s a really easy build.


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## jamie j. (Jul 16, 2022)

giovanni said:


> You may be able to verify the clipping with a scope since the symptoms seem to point to an issue with that. Or better, you can compare the signal at various points in the circuit with your working unit. The scope will tell you a lot. You do need a probe to use it, but that’s a really easy build.


It came with probes. It’s currently connected to another pedal I’m building. I tried my hand at hand wiring without a PCB. Using a pad board. It’s a work in progress. 😁


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## PJS (Jul 16, 2022)

What behaviour are you seeing from the gain control?  The gain on this does 2 things.  It increases the gain (which should introduce some dirt).  It also pans from an all clean signal to an all dirt signal (not that this ever gets really dirty).  It is possible therefore to have the dirt part of the circuit working perfectly, but not get any dirty signal if the other half of the gain pot is not working properly


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## jamie j. (Jul 17, 2022)

PJS said:


> What behaviour are you seeing from the gain control?  The gain on this does 2 things.  It increases the gain (which should introduce some dirt).  It also pans from an all clean signal to an all dirt signal (not that this ever gets really dirty).  It is possible therefore to have the dirt part of the circuit working perfectly, but not get any dirty signal if the other half of the gain pot is not working properly


The issue is the gain produces very little overdrive and mostly volume. It does not pan from all clean to all dirty. Turned all the way up, there is a tiny bit of overdrive and a lot of volume. The overdrive is closer to what you'd get at 9 or 10 o'clock. This is the 2nd one I've built and my first works.

Also, I swapped out the gain pot to rule out it was the issue. With the new pot, I have the same issue.


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## swyse (Jul 17, 2022)

Its always hard for me to tell the colors on blue resistors in a picture, but is this 47k or 4.7k?


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## jamie j. (Jul 17, 2022)

swyse said:


> View attachment 29210
> 
> Its always hard for me to tell the colors on blue resistors in a picture, but is this 47k or 4.7k?


It's 47k. It would be almost impossible for me to swap a component and not notice. I am very meticulous when I work the board. Also, it means another component would be missing a spot. There is no way not to catch that, IMHO.


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## swyse (Jul 17, 2022)

Looking at the schematic 4.7k would have given you the opposite problem that you have now, that red band on the 47k when compared to the diode and other resistors is surprisingly brown, but anyways... 
My last guess is an issue with the switch, I tested this in simulation (albeit without the bypass network) and if S4 stays grounded you just get ridiculous clean signal boosting according to the simulation. Green is signal at grounded diodes, blue is the clean signal from the other branches before it goes into the next gain stage (u3 on my picture) and then red is node Vtone, before the volume control, with the multiple lines representing position of the gain control. So if my simulation is to be believed then maybe check that the switch is switching correctly on the S4 half and if it is then I don't know what else you can do but check continuity with each component in the clipping section and compare voltages with your working unit.


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## jamie j. (Jul 17, 2022)

swyse said:


> Looking at the schematic 4.7k would have given you the opposite problem that you have now, that red band on the 47k when compared to the diode and other resistors is surprisingly brown, but anyways...
> My last guess is an issue with the switch, I tested this in simulation (albeit without the bypass network) and if S4 stays grounded you just get ridiculous clean signal boosting according to the simulation. Green is signal at grounded diodes, blue is the clean signal from the other branches before it goes into the next gain stage (u3 on my picture) and then red is node Vtone, before the volume control, with the multiple lines representing position of the gain control. So if my simulation is to be believed then maybe check that the switch is switching correctly on the S4 half and if it is then I don't know what else you can do but check continuity with each component in the clipping section and compare voltages with your working unit.
> View attachment 29212


Should I check my S4 for continuity with ground? Or, are you saying that the S4 should be disconnect from ground with the foot switch engaged? I can check either. I'd need to know what S4 is connected to on the foot switch but if the trace is on the underside I won't be able to follow it b/c of the switch.


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## jamie j. (Jul 17, 2022)

swyse said:


> if S4 stays grounded you just get ridiculous clean signal boosting according to the simulation.


If I'm understanding correctly, here are my findings. S4 has continuity to ground when the foot switch is bypassed. When engaged, there is no continuity to ground.


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## swyse (Jul 17, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> If I'm understanding correctly, here are my findings. S4 has continuity to ground when the foot switch is bypassed. When engaged, there is no continuity to ground.


Yep, that's what I meant, If those are your findings then it sounds like the switch isn't grounding out the clipping signal


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## music6000 (Jul 17, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> OK. I was wrong earlier about the S4. I did all of the color testing and all had continuity. Not sure how I screwed up the S4/diodes earlier. They do have continuity the way you have the colors mapped out. So, all of that seems good.


Can you check to see if you have Continuity with Gain top centre solder pad *B2 *& *R16, R17 *&* R18* top solder pads?
Look at the PCB Continuity board I posted before for updates!


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## jamie j. (Jul 14, 2022)

Hi kids. I have an issue with my Kliché Mini. The gain adjustment does not add a lot of overdrive sound but the pedal is stupid loud. Also, this is the 2nd I've built and the first one works as expected. Everything seems to be in place. I don't see any bleeds or unwanted connections in the solder. Any ideas? Below are pics.


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## jamie j. (Jul 20, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Can you check to see if you have Continuity with Gain top centre solder pad *B2 *& *R16, R17 *&* R18* top solder pads?
> Look at the PCB Continuity board I posted before for updates!
> 
> View attachment 29217


I somehow missed the email for this.
I have continuity between the top center gain pad (B2) and R16, R17, and R18.


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## music6000 (Jul 20, 2022)

Test for Continuity on latest update!
Gain Pot A1, A2, A3 to matching circle :


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## music6000 (Jul 20, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> I somehow missed the email for this.
> I have continuity between the top center gain pad (B2) and R16, R17, and R18.


Can you show a better Picture of all the Resistors, the glare is bad on the first photo you listed!


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## jamie j. (Jul 20, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Test for Continuity on latest update!
> Gain Pot A1, A2, A3 to matching circle :
> View attachment 29427


A3 has continuity to the R9 pad.
I could not find a match for the color, tho. Remember, I'm colorblind so it's tough to see for me. That said, I happened to notice A2 has continuit to the TL072 pin 5.
A1 had no continuity to the TL072 pin 5.


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## jamie j. (Jul 20, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Can you show a better Picture of all the Resistors, the glare is bad on the first photo you listed!


Let me know if this is better.


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## music6000 (Jul 20, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> Let me know if this is better.


R9 - 2K appears to be 1K or 200r which is in the Gain structure.
You have used 390k instead of 392k but I don't think that is much of an issue.
I measure all my resistors as i put each one in as you probably have too being colorblind & I know the colours also!!!


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## jamie j. (Jul 20, 2022)

music6000 said:


> R9 - 2K appears to be 1K which is in the Gain structure.
> You have used 390k instead of 392k but I don't think that is much of an issue.
> I measure all my resistors as i put each one in as you probably have too being colorblind & I know the colours also!!!


Yes. The first thing I do is read and label all of my resistors (well, all components, actually). Then, I read them again before I put them on the board. I checked the R9 resister and it is definitely 2K. Reads on the MM at 1.995K.


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## music6000 (Jul 20, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> Yes. The first thing I do is read and label all of my resistors (well, all components, actually). Then, I read them again before I put them on the board. I checked the R9 resister and it is definitely 2K. Reads on the MM at 1.995K.


A1 should have Continuity with IC 1 - Pin 5
A2 & B3 should have Continuity with 1C 2 - Pin 5
None of the Gain pads should be Connected to any Pin 8


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## jamie j. (Jul 20, 2022)

music6000 said:


> A1 should have Continuity with IC 1 - Pin 5
> A2 & B3 should have Continuity with 1C 2 - Pin 5
> None of the Gain pads should be Connected to any Pin 8


I'm sorry. I forgot pins 1 & 8 are parallel. I should have said pin 5, not 8. I'll correct the post above. That said...

A1 has continuity with IC 1, pin 5
A2 & B3 have continuity with IC 2, pin 5


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## jamie j. (Jul 20, 2022)

So, at this point: should I consider swapping out the Ge diodes. I haven't yet because I did a reading and they read the same as the working pedal which suggests to me they are fine. Unless that's a false read because they are already on the board.

FYI - my diodes will be different but I did buy them because they were "Klon" style Ge diodes. Whatever that means...


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## giovanni (Jul 20, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> So, at this point: should I consider swapping out the Ge diodes. I haven't yet because I did a reading and they read the same as the working pedal which suggests to me they are fine. Unless that's a false read because they are already on the board.
> 
> FYI - my diodes will be different but I did buy them because they were "Klon" style Ge diodes. Whatever that means...


You could put sockets in there and try a few different kinds as well. The clipping diodes only affect the sound at very high gain.


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## jamie j. (Jul 20, 2022)

giovanni said:


> You could put sockets in there and try a few different kinds as well. The clipping diodes only affect the sound at very high gain.


I don't have sockets at the moment. And if it's not going to fix the problem, it's not worth trying as my working pedal sounds great. Which is why I wanted to build the second one that has turned out to be a PITA.


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## music6000 (Jul 20, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> So, at this point: should I consider swapping out the Ge diodes. I haven't yet because I did a reading and they read the same as the working pedal which suggests to me they are fine. Unless that's a false read because they are already on the board.
> 
> FYI - my diodes will be different but I did buy them because they were "Klon" style Ge diodes. Whatever that means...


It's reacting as you describe it as if there is no clipping happening at all so that was going to be my next suggestion!
Do you have some BAT41 or BAT46, you could try them as they have similar forward voltage????


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## jamie j. (Jul 21, 2022)

music6000 said:


> It's reacting as you describe it as if there is no clipping happening at all so that was going to be my next suggestion!
> Do you have some BAT41 or BAT46, you could try them as they have similar forward voltage????


I have a 10 pack of D9E which I bought because they claimed "Klon Klone NOS Russian Soviet Military Germanium". I bought them to use in another pedal that is kinda similar to the Centaur. Well, it's kind of a cross between that and a Tubescreamer. It uses Silicone diodes and LEDs and I was going to either swap the LEDs with the Ge or add a switch so I could use both. But I got lazy and never did that.

I have another set of Ge diodes but I don't think they have any markings on them other than the stripe. I can dig them out and snap a photo to see if anyone recognizes.


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## music6000 (Jul 21, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> I have a 10 pack of D9E which I bought because they claimed "Klon Klone NOS Russian Soviet Military Germanium". I bought them to use in another pedal that is kinda similar to the Centaur. Well, it's kind of a cross between that and a Tubescreamer. It uses Silicone diodes and LEDs and I was going to either swap the LEDs with the Ge or add a switch so I could use both. But I got lazy and never did that.
> 
> I have another set of Ge diodes but I don't think they have any markings on them other than the stripe. I can dig them out and snap a photo to see if anyone recognizes.


Do you have a Diode tester on your DMM, It will tell you the Forward Voltage.
Red probe to Anode, Black to Cathode, Ge in the 0.3V to  0.38v range
Silicon ie 1n4148 will be 0.7v to 0.75v


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## jamie j. (Jul 21, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Do you have a Diode tester on your DMM, It will tell you the Forward Voltage.
> Red probe to Anode, Black to Cathode, Ge in the 0.3V to  0.38v range
> Silicon ie 1n4148 will be 0.7v to 0.75v
> 
> ...


I do. I'll check it this afternoon and report back to you.


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## jamie j. (Jul 21, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Do you have a Diode tester on your DMM, It will tell you the Forward Voltage.
> Red probe to Anode, Black to Cathode, Ge in the 0.3V to  0.38v range
> Silicon ie 1n4148 will be 0.7v to 0.75v
> 
> ...


I got on that reads .313, one at .310, two at .308 and the rest are upper .29s and lower .30s.


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## music6000 (Jul 21, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> I got on that reads .313, one at .310, two at .308 and the rest are upper .29s and lower .30s.


There all close enough, have you checked the 2 in the Kliche yet????


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## jamie j. (Jul 22, 2022)

music6000 said:


> There all close enough, have you checked the 2 in the Kliche yet????


Yep. They read .296 and .293 - mounted to the board (don't know if that makes a difference with diodes).


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## music6000 (Jul 22, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> Yep. They read .296 and .293 - mounted to the board (don't know if that makes a difference with diodes).


The readings sound about right.
I'm still not 100% convinced,I think that you may have an incorrect resistor.
Can you pull R9 out to be sure it's 2K - Red, Black, Black, Brown, Brown ????
As I said, Being Colorblind sure has it's challenges!


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## jamie j. (Jul 14, 2022)

Hi kids. I have an issue with my Kliché Mini. The gain adjustment does not add a lot of overdrive sound but the pedal is stupid loud. Also, this is the 2nd I've built and the first one works as expected. Everything seems to be in place. I don't see any bleeds or unwanted connections in the solder. Any ideas? Below are pics.


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## swyse (Jul 22, 2022)

music6000 said:


> The readings sound about right.
> I'm still not 100% convinced,I think that you may have an incorrect resistor.
> Can you pull R9 out to be sure it's 2K - Red, Black, Black, Brown, Brown ????
> As I said, Being Colorblind sure has it's challenges!
> ...


I thought the same, I think it's just a poorly marked resistor or a bad color choice by the manufacturer. if it was brown band on the far right and it was a 1k resistor he would have even more gain on the distortion portion because of how R9 is being used right?


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## jamie j. (Jul 22, 2022)

music6000 said:


> The readings sound about right.
> I'm still not 100% convinced,I think that you may have an incorrect resistor.
> Can you pull R9 out to be sure it's 2K - Red, Black, Black, Brown, Brown ????
> As I said, Being Colorblind sure has it's challenges!
> ...


I can 100% assure you I do not have a resistor out of place. I label them first and still read them when I put them on the board. Also, if a resister ended up in the wrong spot another resistor would be missing a spot and I would catch it.

I double checked the caps as well and they are correct. The components are in the correct spot.


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## music6000 (Jul 22, 2022)

I understand where you are coming from but in the 2 pictures you have supplied, R9 - 2K Colour code does not match the resistor Colours in the Picture
I have spent a lot of my time trying to help you with a issue that is indicating a wrong component.
I can't help you if you are convinced you have it correct!!!


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## swyse (Jul 22, 2022)

I'd check for continuity between these, hopefully the numbers help. This is the whole string between the distortion section and the summing op amp (in random order)


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## jamie j. (Jul 22, 2022)

music6000 said:


> I understand where you are coming from but in the 2 pictures you have supplied, R9 - 2K Colour code does not match the resistor Colours in the Picture
> I have spent a lot of my time trying to help you with a issue that is indicating a wrong component.
> I can't help you if you are convinced you have it correct!!!


I understand and completely appreciate your help.

I took the measurement and it was 2k. The resistor above it reads 47k and the one below reads 390k (this kit provided a 390 instead of a 392 but that was specified in the BOM). So, that just doesn't seem to be the issue. Now, my photography may be an issue...


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## jamie j. (Jul 22, 2022)

swyse said:


> View attachment 29605
> I'd check for continuity between these, hopefully the numbers help. This is the whole string between the distortion section and the summing op amp (in random order)


All of the numbers have continuity with each other.


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## jamie j. (Jul 22, 2022)

music6000 said:


> I understand where you are coming from but in the 2 pictures you have supplied, R9 - 2K Colour code does not match the resistor Colours in the Picture
> I have spent a lot of my time trying to help you with a issue that is indicating a wrong component.
> I can't help you if you are convinced you have it correct!!!


Took an up close pic. Is this better?


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## swyse (Jul 22, 2022)

new idea, maybe the distortion side is fine and its the summing op amp boosting one of the clean paths to the stratosphere. can you compare the resistance readings in circuit of these 4 resistors here to the resistance readings of your working unit in circuit? If one of these has a lower resistance than your working unit somehow it would be getting more gain from the summing op amp.


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## jamie j. (Jul 22, 2022)

swyse said:


> new idea, maybe the distortion side is fine and its the summing op amp boosting one of the clean paths to the stratosphere. can you compare the resistance readings in circuit of these 4 resistors here to the resistance readings of your working unit in circuit? If one of these has a lower resistance than your working unit somehow it would be getting more gain from the summing op amp.
> View attachment 29612


Working pedal:
14.98k  11.95k  21.98k  26.95k

Bunk pedal:
13.17k  11.96k  22.91k  20.95k

That 27k is reading a little low on the bunk pedal.


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## swyse (Jul 22, 2022)

If I'm doing my math right, the difference in gain would be 14.5x with the 27k and 18.7x with the value in the pedal, and with the 15k resistor you have 26x, but with the 13.17k you get 29.7x, I'm not sure if these two differences would account for your massive clean signal when combined though, but it might be worth looking into.


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## jamie j. (Jul 22, 2022)

swyse said:


> If I'm doing my math right, the difference in gain would be 14.5x with the 27k and 18.7x with the value in the pedal, and with the 15k resistor you have 26x, but with the 13.17k you get 29.7x, I'm not sure if these two differences would account for your massive clean signal when combined though, but it might be worth looking into.


I'm not really sure what to do with this info. Math is not my strong suit. and that 27 would have read close to 27 before I mounted it to the board.


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## giovanni (Jul 22, 2022)

Our ears don’t hear linearly, but in log scale. So unless you have a 10X difference in gain, it would be barely audible.


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## giovanni (Jul 22, 2022)

Did you get around doing some audio probing? Since you have a working unit, you can compare various points on both pedals and really narrow down where the issue is coming from. Given that we ruled out most common issues, I don’t see any further constructive debugging without the audio probe.


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## jamie j. (Jul 25, 2022)

giovanni said:


> Did you get around doing some audio probing? Since you have a working unit, you can compare various points on both pedals and really narrow down where the issue is coming from. Given that we ruled out most common issues, I don’t see any further constructive debugging without the audio probe.


I do not own an audio prob. Would it be helpful since I do have audio?


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## giovanni (Jul 25, 2022)

jamie j. said:


> I do not own an audio prob. Would it be helpful since I do have audio?


Yes, extremely. There are tons of guides on how to build one, you basically just need a jack and a capacitor.


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## Boba7 (Jul 25, 2022)

Yes, an audio probe is easy to build and extremely useful.

Did you already post voltages?

Does the treble pot work as expected?

Could you try a pair of back to back diodes (germanium or schottky - bat46, bat41) in parallel with one of the Ge diodes? Just to see if you get distortion with a new set of diodes.


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