# Trying to find high-end audio components -- any of you used vishay resistors?



## Steve973 (Feb 20, 2022)

Hi, all.  From what I am reading on this forum, the capacitors of choice are wima.  Well, we have a ton of resistors on these boards, so I started to search for the best types of resistors for our purposes.  The brand that I first found is vpg/vishay, who seem to specialize in foil resistors with low TCR, and they have an AUR series that is specialized for audio applications.  I didn't see any vendors for them, and they have a form to request quotes.  Instead of doing that, I sent their North American contact an email, so we'll see if it's even practical (quantity-wise) for hobbyists to purchase from them.  I don't know if the forum does group buys, but I will post their response, if any of you are interested.  I searched the forums for any info on these resistors, and there were a few mentions of vishay, but I didn't see anything related to the resistors.  Have any of you looked into them before, or even used them?  Is this a worthwhile pursuit?


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## spi (Feb 20, 2022)

TBH I don't think guitar pedals need "high-end audio" components.   With your standard pedal board, your signal is getting manipulated, overdriven if not completely distorted and fuzzed out, modulated, washed out with reverbs and delays, and then sent to an amp (which probably does not have high-end components) for further processing.


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## Steve973 (Feb 21, 2022)

spi said:


> TBH I don't think guitar pedals need "high-end audio" components.   With your standard pedal board, your signal is getting manipulated, overdriven if not completely distorted and fuzzed out, modulated, washed out with reverbs and delays, and then sent to an amp (which probably does not have high-end components) for further processing.


I hear what you are saying, and I mostly agree.  Let's take, for example, a situation where you have a pedal that is not meant to distort -- compressor, EQ, splitter, noise gate, etc. -- and you want to go directly into your computer for further processing and recording -- it stands to reason that you might want to start with the best possible (transparent) audio.  And I totally get that there is a reasonable limit, especially when we consider the price.  On Mouser, I saw those VPG resistors, and they are ridiculously expensive!  I also saw that Microchip diodes are about ten times the price of other diodes, but I am not able to tell exactly *why*.

A big part of my rationale, which is probably very common in this forum, is that I am building the pedal, so I can: 1. learn and gain understanding about the components, including what makes one of the same type different from another, and 2. reasonably choose the best components that I can source for the application.  My ADD makes me a bit obsessive when something grabs my attention, and I tend toward the extreme.  What would be really helpful is to be able to discern good quality without becoming ridiculous.  I would consider it to be a success if I could "level up" the components from what I would get in a pedal produced by a company.  This applies even to good companies, like Darkglass, etc.


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## Paradox916 (Feb 21, 2022)

From my limited experience I have found that high end components don’t really seem to make a difference in tonal quality or clarity but may play a part in longevity of the pedal you build. Checking values and your craftsmanship will play a bigger part in what you are looking to accomplish IMO.  Here is a link that I think can answer your questions on where to source quality parts for the best possible outcome.









						Parts Sourcing: Where to Buy What
					

After giving a general overview of what stores are out there, it’s helpful to give an overview of parts sourcing from the component perspective—the best place to buy resistors, the best place to buy…




					aionfx.com
				




Hopefully this is helpful


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## jesuscrisp (Feb 21, 2022)

You are totally overthinking it. Just go with metal Film resistors, Wima MKS2 caps and some quality electrolytics and you'll be more than fine. There literally is no need for anything "better" than that.

For recording it's even less of a deal since: A) even if there is some terribly subtle difference when using the highest possible grade components in a guitar pedal, any sort of nuance will get lost in the mix. B) if you want to go directly into your PC, better do it without a pedal inbetween and just use whatever plugins for the task since you will run it through software anyway. 

If you want something to not distort, be it compressors, EQ, or else, better give them more headroom via feeding them more voltage or even integrating charge pumps. Even that is mostly important with circuits where you either want to amplify your signal with a lot (not great for running into an audio interface) or if you are playing really high output pickups.


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## TravisM (Feb 21, 2022)

I have used Vishay and could not tell any difference between them and any other brand as long as they are within spec.
1% metal film resistors should be fine. If you want to be extra careful about it, measure every component to get as close as possible to the intended value for the component, but know that the person who designed the circuit made compromises in the design anyway, sometime based on cost and availability, so a circuit 'as designed' may already be sub-optimal. You can spend your OCD time more wisely in making sure the solder joints are good, the board gets cleaned after you solder and the offboard wiring is tidy.


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## fig (Feb 21, 2022)

I use Dale/Vishay MIL-spec resistors a good bit, but not for the purpose of enhancing sound quality. I prefer the beefy leads and I like to pack my builds with mojo components. It's mostly for aesthetics though. I will take a stand on cap-type in the audio path, and semiconductors are another story.


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## vigilante398 (Feb 21, 2022)

Steve973 said:


> A big part of my rationale, which is probably very common in this forum, is that I am building the pedal, so I can: 1. learn and gain understanding about the components, including what makes one of the same type different from another, and 2. reasonably choose the best components that I can source for the application.


Just PM'd you with some stuff to check out. #2 there is a big deal, always look at application and what you're trying to accomplish. If you're building a fuzz, you don't care much about component quality, you're just going for dirt anyway. If you're building a boutique studio compressor, absolutely obsess over every single component and how they interact with everything else in the circuit.


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## Steve973 (Feb 21, 2022)

jesuscrisp said:


> You are totally overthinking it. Just go with metal Film resistors, Wima MKS2 caps and some quality electrolytics and you'll be more than fine. There literally is no need for anything "better" than that.


I am not exactly what you might call neurotypical.  So, I can agree with you in spirit that I am overthinking.  But it's not as simple as flipping a switch for me.  This is part of who I am.  I need to obsessively dive in and understand as much as possible in the shortest amount of time.  Both the positive and very-slightly-negative comments help with my learning.  I appreciate all of these perspectives.


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## pcb rookie (Feb 21, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> Just PM'd you with some stuff to check out. #2 there is a big deal, always look at application and what you're trying to accomplish. If you're building a fuzz, you don't care much about component quality, you're just going for dirt anyway. If you're building a boutique studio compressor, absolutely obsess over every single component and how they interact with everything else in the circuit.


vigilante398 *I would also be interested with that stuff to check out. If you wish to PM me as well, that would be great!* ​


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## pcb rookie (Feb 21, 2022)

Steve973 said:


> I am not exactly what you might call neurotypical.  So, I can agree with you in spirit that I am overthinking.  But it's not as simple as flipping a switch for me.  This is part of who I am.  I need to obsessively dive in and understand as much as possible in the shortest amount of time.  Both the positive and very-slightly-negative comments help with my learning.  I appreciate all of these perspectives.


Ok ... i'm no expert but I don't think that quantity 1% film resistors, Wima MKSII Caps and quality Nichicon or panasonic when Electrolytic caps are required is making a compromise ... to my knowledge they are not consolation prize components. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong ... no offence!

The article that Paradox916 recommended was very helpful for me on sourcing my components.









						Parts Sourcing: Where to Buy What
					

After giving a general overview of what stores are out there, it’s helpful to give an overview of parts sourcing from the component perspective—the best place to buy resistors, the best place to buy…




					aionfx.com
				




I'm also looking to integrate some Vishay res in some of my builds but as Fig said above, it's only for mojo visual and aesthetics.


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## spi (Feb 21, 2022)

Steve973 said:


> I am not exactly what you might call neurotypical.  So, I can agree with you in spirit that I am overthinking.  But it's not as simple as flipping a switch for me.  This is part of who I am.  I need to obsessively dive in and understand as much as possible in the shortest amount of time.  Both the positive and very-slightly-negative comments help with my learning.  I appreciate all of these perspectives.


I think the best way is to settle this in your mind is to conduct a scientific experiment:  build a compressor with both cheapo tayda components, and one with high-end parts, then have a blind sound test.

I'd certainly be interested in hearing the results.


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## Paradox916 (Feb 21, 2022)

pcb rookie said:


> Ok ... i'm no expert but I don't think that quantity 1% film resistors, Wima MKSII Caps and quality Nichicon or panasonic when Electrolytic caps are required is making a compromise ... to my knowledge they are not consolation prize components. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong ... no offence!
> 
> The article that Paradox916 recommended was very helpful for me on sourcing my components.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong on wanting it to look nice….that’s half the fun.


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## Betty Wont (Feb 21, 2022)

spi said:


> I think the best way is to settle this in your mind is to conduct a scientific experiment:  build a compressor with both cheapo tayda components, and one with high-end parts, then have a blind sound test.
> 
> I'd certainly be interested in hearing the results.


I've done a similar experiment with MLCC vs Wima film caps in pedals. I found no audible differences.


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## Paradox916 (Feb 21, 2022)

Betty Wont said:


> I've done a similar experiment with MLCC vs Wima film caps in pedals. I found no audible differences.


Damn that could shave off a few bucks for sure.


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## fig (Feb 21, 2022)

I make no apologies -to me, it really ties the pedal together. 







Breadboarding is not exempt from mojo either....


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## fig (Feb 21, 2022)

On the other hand, much respect to folks like @Betty Wont , @vigilante398 , and others who have built and sold tons of pedals. There is an economy involved with that, and since 99% of "mojo" is indiscernible, their reasoning is very sound!

That's the difference with me. I only build for myself and to give to my son or anyone who feigns interest in having one, LOL!
I think I'd have fun doing a Fig's Bench experiment on the subject. Certainly I can find some way to explode something....I'll get the GoPro charged!


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## mdc (Feb 21, 2022)

@Steve973 maybe a way to latch onto this is instead of starting from a theoretical 'best,' try starting with a known quantity and then problem solve. So if you start with something like a clean boost or transparent compressor and you're finding that it's distorting/altering the frequency response of your guitar/etc/etc, you have a tangible problem to solve and a gremlin to chase. Is it the circuit design? Is it your component choice? Is it the PCB layout?

I don't presume any knowledge of your particular neurodivergence, but if you're able to shift from "how do I make this" to "how do I make this BETTER" you may find more concrete and actionable answers to your questions.

Also, FWIW, in my limited experience "audio-grade" components are largely a marketing exercise aimed at the audiophile industry. It's not like mil-spec where there is actually an actual spec written down somewhere. And as far as mil-spec goes, as @fig pointed out, it's often not so much about the performance of the part itself as much as it is about the conditions under which it is able to perform and for how long.


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## Paradox916 (Feb 21, 2022)

@fig love your board


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## jubal81 (Feb 21, 2022)

I've had fancy, audio-grade parts backfire, sounding worse than the basic, everyday parts. My best advice is just to not skimp on electrolytic capacitors.
Generally, though, I've found no sonic advantage to audiophile parts in low voltage pedals. I use them for fun and aesthetics, like in this Lunar Module clone I made with Sozo caps, carbon comp resistors, polystyrenes, etc. Came out sounding indistinguishable from the small version with jellybean parts- but it was fun!


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## almondcity (Feb 21, 2022)

I totally get where OP is coming from. It's understandable to want the best parts

That said I've bought 95% of my parts from Tayda because it's so damn convenient, considering I'm ordering enclosures from there anyway. I wish I could order from smallbear again...


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## fig (Feb 21, 2022)

See? That's gorgeous @jubal81 !

Do these NOS 1983 LM308s sound any better than the others? No...but knowing they are _in there_ is priceless.


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## Big Monk (Feb 21, 2022)

almondcity said:


> I totally get where OP is coming from. It's understandable to want the best parts
> 
> That said I've bought 95% of my parts from Tayda because it's so damn convenient, considering I'm ordering enclosures from there anyway. I wish I could order from smallbear again...



Keep in mind, those "cheap" (as in quality) grey Arcotronics caps from Tayda have a 5% tolerance. I'll take that all day for $0.10.

Quality to me means I pull that value from my bins and it's close to that value.


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## andare (Feb 21, 2022)

fig said:


> I make no apologies -to me, it really ties the pedal together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are those fast and bulbous black thingies near the IC? They look very juicy.


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## andare (Feb 21, 2022)

So what brands do you gurus recommend for electrolytic capacitors?


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## fig (Feb 21, 2022)

andare said:


> What are those fast and bulbous black thingies near the IC? They look very juicy.


Silver mica capacitors. Real good for the pF range, but package size is a consideration.


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## vigilante398 (Feb 21, 2022)

andare said:


> So what brands do you gurus recommend for electrolytic capacitors?


In my experience Panasonic and Nichicon are hard to beat without getting weird and expensive.


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## Username123 (Feb 21, 2022)

Steve973 said:


> Hi, all.  From what I am reading on this forum, the capacitors of choice are wima.  Well, we have a ton of resistors on these boards, so I started to search for the best types of resistors for our purposes.  The brand that I first found is vpg/vishay, who seem to specialize in foil resistors with low TCR, and they have an AUR series that is specialized for audio applications.  I didn't see any vendors for them, and they have a form to request quotes.  Instead of doing that, I sent their North American contact an email, so we'll see if it's even practical (quantity-wise) for hobbyists to purchase from them.  I don't know if the forum does group buys, but I will post their response, if any of you are interested.  I searched the forums for any info on these resistors, and there were a few mentions of vishay, but I didn't see anything related to the resistors.  Have any of you looked into them before, or even used them?  Is this a worthwhile pursuit?


Have you built a pedal yet? You may not even have a working build the first time so keep that in mind. I would personally make getting a high quality soldering iron my first priority, and getting good soldering skills by practicing. You don't need the best spec parts. I personally think the audio grade thing is a gimmick when it comes to pedals. Everything guitar related is "lo-fi". We like vacuum tubes which have been obsolete for decades, we use woofers to reproduce all the frequencies, we use crappy and obsolete opamps to produce distortion, we like to use analog delays, Etc. I'm honestly not trying to be negative and I have ADD as well so I understand completely.


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## Stickman393 (Feb 21, 2022)

spi said:


> I think the best way is to settle this in your mind is to conduct a scientific experiment:  build a compressor with both cheapo tayda components, and one with high-end parts, then have a blind sound test.
> 
> I'd certainly be interested in hearing the results.


I appreciate the impulse, but I gotta point out cause I'm a stickler and not particularly neurotypical myself...

This is not a scientific experiment.  The same test, conducted multiple times by different individuals attempting to account for all variables while using a shared vocabulary to document results in as close to objectively as is humanly possible: well, that would be SCIENCE!!!!!!

But...if one is interested in what difference is noticeable to an individual on a specific day in a specific environment (including at a specific temperature)...honestly that gives me an idea...

So...MLCCs are something that I've been curious about for a while here.  From my understanding, C0G/NP0s appear, on paper, to perform similarly to polypropylene film capacitors, so I don't have *any* qualms about using those in the signal path.

But...let's say...if one was to use a Z5U MLCC.  Those have a horrific temperature coefficient.

So...even if one was to measure capacitance outside of the circuit, the actual capacitance in operation could shift to, like, half...say, if one was to leave a pedal out in the sun on a stage during a hot day...

Even an X7R can shift to a lesser extent in different temperatures.  Not a big deal for something like power supply decoupling, where the absolute value isn't super important, but enough that I can't help but wonder if differing environmental conditions could, say, shift the effective frequency range of the tone controls on a drive pedal in an unexpected and unwelcome way.

Too many unknown variables for me to say with certainty: I think it's fair to say that resistors do not particularly matter as long as they arent carbon comps.  Caps are complicated though: for pedal building, I don't think you can go wrong with C0G in the 1000nf and below range, Polypropylene below the 10nf-ish range, Polyester in the 10-1000 nanofarad range, and electrolytic from there on up.  Just in terms of ease of cramming everything in there.


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