# Muzzle key input question



## dlazzarini (Jul 4, 2019)

Doing some thorough studying before I actually attempt the build. I have the correct 1/4” trs jack for the key from Tayda. Looking at the build docs, I don’t see any ground coming from the jack. Only tip and switched tip. Is this correct? This is the only area of the build that I’m foggy about.


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## Robert (Jul 4, 2019)

The first batches of boards didn't have a ground pad for the key jack.  If your jacks are metal it will ground through the enclosure.


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## dlazzarini (Jul 4, 2019)

Robert said:


> The first batches of boards didn't have a ground pad for the key jack.  If your jacks are metal it will ground through the enclosure.


My PCB has a third pad unlike the one in the build docs so I’m assuming I have a later batch. Which one of the 3 pads would be the ground pad? There’s a “T” I’m assuming means tip on the left side pad. Other than that I don’t see anything differentiating them. Im also guessing that I won’t be using a trs cable and this jack is just used for the tip switching on and off. Thanks for the quick response by the way.


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## Robert (Jul 4, 2019)

Center pad is ground, Left is Tip, Right is Switched Tip.

Correct, you'd use a normal mono cable feeding a signal into the Key input.    The switched jack is used so the gate still functions when nothing is plugged into the Key input.  (Gating is then controlled by the input signal, rather than a secondary sidechained input)


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## dlazzarini (Jul 4, 2019)

Robert said:


> Center pad is ground, Left is Tip, Right is Switched Tip.
> 
> Correct, you'd use a normal mono cable feeding a signal into the Key input.    The switched jack is used so the gate still functions when nothing is plugged into the Key input.  (Gating is then controlled by the input signal, rather than a secondary sidechained input)


Ok thanks for clearing that up for me. I’m about to the point of digging in this build. Thanks again for the quick response.


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## Bigshredder (Jul 11, 2019)

_hi. I am having some trouble with this as well. In the kit from musikding the key input has 4 or 5 different lugs from the jack. Which one goes where? The build docs doesn’t say anything about wiring any third wire to any lug. Which lug does the tip go to and which lug goes to the tip switch and which to ground? I get no sound from my muzzle but it is gating and the 3pdt switch is working. When I switch to a trs cable in the switch jack I get audio but it’s heavy distorted so I think it must be a ground issue. Any idea on how to connect the switch jack?_


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2019)

The Key input connections are marked on the wiring diagram.   (Tip / Switched Tip)


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## Bigshredder (Jul 11, 2019)

Mine doesn’t look like that. It has 1,2,3 4 is just a hole and then B which I think is ground because its not located on the back but at the front


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## Bigshredder (Jul 11, 2019)

Here’s a pic


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## zgrav (Jul 11, 2019)

that is not a switched jack.  just a stereo jack.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2019)

I'm not sure if that's a switched jack or not.   If you have an ohmmeter see if you can determine which lug is the Tip, then with no cable inserted see if any other lug connects to that point.

For test purposes you can install a jumper wire across the Tip / Switched Tip pads on the PCB.   You'll have no Key functionality but the gate should function properly.


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## Bigshredder (Jul 11, 2019)

thats the jack that came with the kit. You are saying it’s wrong?! FML. I have spent 3 days with this build and I have hade nothing but trouble. First the wires broke (single coil that I got from a diy store) ALL of them so I hade to desolder them one by one several times and then the led didn’t work and now this!!


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## Bigshredder (Jul 11, 2019)

The big lug is the tip. So the switched cable goes to the sleeve?


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2019)

I'm not familiar with that type of jack, but it has four lugs so it's possible one of them is a switched tip lug.

What you're looking for is a lug that connects to the Tip when nothing is plugged into the jack. (and not connected to the Tip when a plug IS inserted)

It functions like Normalled jack in a mixer or patchbay.


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## Bigshredder (Jul 11, 2019)

I WORKED! Finally!! Thanks a lot  you saved me another sleepless night. 
Just out of curiosity. The middle hole on the switch jack on the circuit is for the ground right? That should be soldered to the sleeve of the jack? I am done desoldering now so this last wire (it not soldered yet) is gonna be the last. 
Also, the internal mini toggle switch, can you mount it either way on the circuit? Cuz I couldn’t find any info on it an now it’s there for all eternity


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2019)

Awesome!  So just to confirm, that _was _a switching jack included in the kit?

Yes, the center pad is for the Sleeve connection.  It isn't required (and wasn't on the first revision of the PCB) so I didn't mention it to prevent more confusion.    Go ahead and connect it if you'd like.

The orientation of the mini toggle switch makes no difference.


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## Bigshredder (Jul 11, 2019)

Yes the switching jack was included in the kit. From musikding in germany. Superfast delivery to sweden. Every component and wire included in the kit. But the build docs could be a little clearer. Bought both the muzzle and the 33 clone. And the there was no telling what way the cathode and anode leg should be. On the muzzle and the triangulum boost had an square at the cathode but the building doc said otherwise so I ended up putting mixing them up twice. 
The muzzle is a really tight build in an 125b enclosure. Everything is pushed and squished together and the lid is not entirely closed due to the switching jack. 
But the both sounds great. The Triangulum boost have less bass and volume than my original fortin 33 so I think it maybe based on the grind instead.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2019)

The confusion with the LEDs is being corrected.  All newer PCBs are clearly marked A/K.

The Triangulum is based on the 33, but I've seen at least three different revisions so that could explain the tonal differences.


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## Bigshredder (Jul 11, 2019)

Nice 
Anyone that is building the muzzle and reads this should put the long leg of the led to the right side. That is the right side when looking down in the enclosure inwards. 
This gate is amazing. Promised myself that this is my final build because there are always so many things that needs to be bought or fixed or that ends up not as planed with diy but the way the muzzle works I might build another one as a spare.


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## dlazzarini (Jul 11, 2019)

This is one hell of a gate. Makes me want to use my NS-2 for target practice.


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## ErickPulido (Oct 6, 2019)

Sorry for the necrobump, I am not familiar with the key thing what does it do?
, or how to use it?, 

I want to build this sadly the IC is getting EOL, saw there will be a new version with the soic chip


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## Robert (Oct 7, 2019)

The key is like a sidechain input...

It allows you to control the gate with your clean guitar signal, but actually _gate _the signal later in the chain (after distortion pedals, or in your amps FX loop).


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## ErickPulido (Oct 7, 2019)

Robert said:


> The key is like a sidechain input...
> 
> It allows you to control the gate with your clean guitar signal, but actually _gate _the signal later in the chain (after distortion pedals, or in your amps FX loop).


Sorry I don't understand it completely, I really appreciate the explanation


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## dlazzarini (Oct 8, 2019)

ErickPulido said:


> Sorry I don't understand it completely, I really appreciate the explanation


Proper way to use it is when running the gate through the effects loop. It requires that you split your signal. Most guys split it with a Boss tuner but I just use a regular splitter. Guitar into splitter. Output A from splitter into the key input of gate. Effects send from amp into muzzle input. Muzzle output to any time based effects such as chorus and delay then back into effects return or if running no time based effects, muzzle output to effects return. Output B from splitter you treat just like your front of amp signal into any distortions/boosts etc then into front of amp. This way you’re able to use a clean pure signal into the gate that’s not effected by your distortion/boosts. It gates later in the chain after your preamp. Less chance of it gating too early and cutting off your desired signal. You can leave it engaged all the time this way even when switching to your clean channel because your still using a clean in-effected signal. I’ll draw you a diagram when I get a chance and post it. This really is the way to go.


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## dlazzarini (Oct 8, 2019)




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## dlazzarini (Oct 8, 2019)

This way you’re not gating a distorted boosted signal, just the pure clean signal from the guitar. All the gating occurs after the preamp and before the power amp. Just make sure you run any time based effects after the muzzles output and into the fx return. This way you won’t prematurely cut off any trailing delay repeats etc. if you don’t run any time effects just go straight from the muzzle output back into the fix return.


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## ErickPulido (Oct 8, 2019)

dlazzarini said:


> Proper way to use it is when running the gate through the effects loop. It requires that you split your signal. Most guys split it with a Boss tuner but I just use a regular splitter. Guitar into splitter. Output A from splitter into the key input of gate. Effects send from amp into muzzle input. Muzzle output to any time based effects such as chorus and delay then back into effects return or if running no time based effects, muzzle output to effects return. Output B from splitter you treat just like your front of amp signal into any distortions/boosts etc then into front of amp. This way you’re able to use a clean pure signal into the gate that’s not effected by your distortion/boosts. It gates later in the chain after your preamp. Less chance of it gating too early and cutting off your desired signal. You can leave it engaged all the time this way even when switching to your clean channel because your still using a clean in-effected signal. I’ll draw you a diagram when I get a chance and post it. This really is the way to go.


I get it now, thank you so much I really appreciate it


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## Toneconsultant (Feb 2, 2020)

Robert said:


> The Key input connections are marked on the wiring diagram.   (Tip / Switched Tip)


Oooooh!  OK.  Now I get it.  I was thinking I had to solder a ground in there, but it’s the switching tip so I do just follow the visual pic instructions.  Thx


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