# Document Suggestion



## Robusto (Mar 16, 2022)

It would be cool if the documentation for PCBs here that have trimpots would make note of what they are for and what to look/listen for when adjusting.


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## Feral Feline (Mar 17, 2022)

If Mr PPCB spent more time on filling build docs with info, it would take away time spent tracing new circuits and developing new project-boards. Hence, the forum is a rich vein of info to be mined, in lieu of extensive documentation.

The tale of the trimpot is a story the schematic tells. What to look/listen for when wrangling a trimpot comes with experience — turning one makes it… What? Louder brighter dirtier faster changes-the-voltage or ???

As you find your own path, it never hurts to ask about a specific trimpot for a specific build in the forums — most folks here are friendly and more than willing to oblige an answer to set you further along your path.

I hope my post was as helpful as it was intended.


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## Big Monk (Mar 17, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> If Mr PPCB spent more time on filling build docs with info, it would take away time spent tracing new circuits and developing new project-boards.



One always seems to be at the expense of the other.

Nothing against Aion Fx, as they have wonderful documentation, some of the best I'd say, but they seem to have considerably less offerings than PedalPCB.

One is not better than the other but it's just a tradeoff you have to contemplate.


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## Robusto (Mar 17, 2022)

In my opinion, Pedal PCB makes the best PCBs by far, and I have built more pedals starting here than anywhere else, so thank you for that.
However, when I buy something from Aion or Mad Bean I know that literally everything will be covered in the doc. I'm not asking Pedal PCB to go as crazy as those guys, but just a tad bit more information would go a long way in preventing frustration. Personally, I'd much prefer a slower release schedule if we could get better doc.............or any doc at all. Even Ikea doesn't make you comb through a web forum to find build instructions. Okay, Ikea may be a bad example, but you get the idea. 

I didn't intend to go on a rant here and I really am most concerned with trim pot stats. if it's too time consuming to put it in the doc, maybe start a trim pot section of the forum?

This is all just friendly customer feedback. Overall, Pedal PCB is the best.


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## Big Monk (Mar 17, 2022)

thewintersoldier said:


> There are a lot more projects here than any of diy pedal site, yes that is true. But how many of the projects are just TS, Big Muff or fuzz pedals that are pretty much all the same. I would rather have more variety and more in depth documentation than have 50 modded TS boards. That's just me though, and I seem to be in the minority and that's fine as well. It's not in fashion to have an opinion that is not in line with the majority here. I accept this, but I will speak my truth when these threads pop up.



I agree 100%. 

I'm just pointing out that detailed documentation is inversely proportional to overall quantity of boards offered.

In short, people coming here often want their cake and to eat it too. People praising Robert's prodigious output and board quality while simultaneously demanding build info on par with Aion Fx and MBP are effectively talking out of both sides of their mouth.


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## Robusto (Mar 17, 2022)

I don't even think of JHS as a pedal company anymore. I consider them an incredibly well curated history museum that releases an amusing video once a week. 

It's true, there are a lot of variants of the old standbys here, but those are great for people to cut their teeth on. What keeps me coming back is..."Wait...I can build MY OWN EQD Rainbow Machine?!?!?! Holy crap!"


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## Big Monk (Mar 17, 2022)

Robusto said:


> It's true, there are a lot of variants of the old standbys here, but those are great for people to cut their teeth on.



I think the point that @thewintersoldier is making is that lack of documentation is not the reason basic projects turn up in the troubleshooting forums along with the more difficult ones.

It's lack of skills mostly and not documentation.

It would be nice if people cut their teeth on Fuzz Faces and Rangemasters instead of Low Tides.



Robusto said:


> It would be cool if the documentation for PCBs here that have trimpots would make note of what they are for and what to look/listen for when adjusting.



To come back to the OP: IF you have the schematic that should be all you need to understand what a trimpot is doing in the circuit. Some functions in pedals have entered the popular lexicon so that you don't need to have a book written about it to know what's up. I get what you are asking but if you have a Paragon Mini with a trimpot that says Treble/Presence, that should be all you need to know, etc.


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## Betty Wont (Mar 17, 2022)

I see these kit sellers like muscledong, or whatever their name is, as to blame for the bulk of the troubleshooting section. They present this as more "paint-by-numbers" than it is, but they have lots of pick errors and subs, and that coupled with build docs intended for the more seasoned builder, creates failure. But hey, the led lights up, so its mostly working, just gotta get the audio going.


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## Big Monk (Mar 17, 2022)

Betty Wont said:


> But hey, the led lights up, so its mostly working, just gotta get the audio going.


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## Robusto (Mar 17, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> I think the point that @thewintersoldier is making is that lack of documentation is not the reason basic projects turn up in the troubleshooting forums along with the more difficult ones.
> 
> It's lack of skills mostly and not documentation.
> 
> ...



Very true. I brought up the Rainbow Machine because it was one of the first PCBs I bought here when I started, and yes, I DID get the LEDs to light up (if you know what I mean). I ended up taking a second crack at it a couple years later and did much better.

I also agree with you about checking the schematic if there is one. I've been waiting (and complaining) about missing doc for the full-sized Electro Vibe for some time now. It's finally here, so I'm happy on that one. However, as an opposing example, one of the other early things I built was the JHS, excuse me, ROG Super Bolt. it would have been cool if the doc had a quick line that said "use the trims to adjust the JFETs to 9v, since there's a charge pump here boosting internal voltage to 18v". Just that simple note would have prevented me from biasing them to 4.5v and wondering why it didn't sound like a Super Bolt at all.

I'm glad I created this thread, because the different viewpoints here may have changed my opinion a bit. If one really wants to learn something instead of just playing paint by numbers, it certainly is a learning experience to have to do your own research sometimes.


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## Big Monk (Mar 17, 2022)

Robusto said:


> I've been waiting (and complaining) about missing doc for the full-sized Electro Vibe for some time now. It's finally here, so I'm happy on that one.



The thing is, that stuff has been available for 6 months. Robert released the schematic, parts list, refdes, etc. all by the end of last year but it just wasn't compiled in a document. 

That's the strength of the forum. It's part documentation, part figure it out, and part collective knowledge.


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## zgrav (Mar 17, 2022)

I strongly agree with the idea above that the *kit sellers should take responsibility for making sure they provide the build documents to support the projects they are assembling for their customers,* since it is much more likely that those purchasers will be newer with fewer skills.  It is almost too easy for them to pass off that responsibility to the people that are making the pcbs.  

The forums for these sites provide a lot of support, and it is notable that madbean provides the support forums for a number of those other sites.


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## Big Monk (Mar 17, 2022)

thewintersoldier said:


> I can't wholeheartedly agree with this. Yes the forum can share collective knowledge, but I shouldn't have to lean on anyone to build something. How can one just figure it out if they don't have an original unit in front of them to get readings from? I don't have an issue with doing some research but I want to be able to do it without asking for help and that requires documentation.



This goes back to the argument about documentation being inversely proportional to project volume. Chances are that if some hot shit pedal is available here, you are either going to have to wait for documentation or build. 

With that said, I was a total UniVibe neophyte before my ElectroVibe build and I built it, effectively did troubleshooting on it and modified it without a compiled build document. 

I get what you are saying but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. To me, PedalPCB would not have been the place I started out way back when. General Guitar Gadgets was more my speed.


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## benny_profane (Mar 17, 2022)

It’s an unreal expectation to crowd source circuit explanation to the point that you did for the elctrovibe with every project. Also, success with or modification of more complex projects relies heavily on documentation published by other sites or other web resources. 

I think the sheer quantity is an allure for many people, but they underestimate what actually goes into a successful build. It’s unreasonable to expect that that would be assumed knowledge for a beginner. 

Given that the documentation model is unlikely to change, I’m not really sure what the point of the discussion here is. I think it’s reasonable to ask for simple biasing targets, but I doubt the documents will ever have comprehensive information and will continue to require a certain level of proficiency. I’m just glad to see that voltage ratings are being included now. That’s a bare minimum for anything including a charge pump.


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## Big Monk (Mar 17, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> I think the sheer quantity is an allure for many people, but they underestimate what actually goes into a successful build. It’s unreasonable to expect that that would be assumed knowledge for a beginner.



This is an important statement I think. When I got into DIY it was Valve Junior mods, Fuzz Faces and Rangemasters.

The first pedal I ever built was a terminal strip Rangemaster off of R.G.'s "Austin Treble Blaster" document. The First PCB build I ever did was an Gagan Easy Face from GGG.

The complexity range and volume of available circuits is staggering now. And full disclosure: I still fuck up circuits and i've been dabbling in this for a long time but with breaks in between. So I think I need to check myself as well.

I have the tendency to assume a lot about builders because I have an EE background, lots of troubleshooting experience in my day job and have simply been involved in building, schematics, etc. for so many years.


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## benny_profane (Mar 17, 2022)

I would like to add that I don’t think ‘simple’ circuits like Fuzz Faces (or any of the early fuzzes really), are great for beginners. They are temperamental circuits that require attention to component specs. Simpler beginner circuits shouldn’t require that level of knowledge. Op-amp overdrives or distortions seem like a much better beginner project. There are plenty of options with low part counts. But, we’re losing the original point of the thread here.


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## Big Monk (Mar 17, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> I would like to add that I don’t think ‘simple’ circuits like Fuzz Faces (or any of the early fuzzes really), are great for beginners. They are temperamental circuits that require attention to component specs. Simpler beginner circuits shouldn’t require that level of knowledge. Op-amp overdrives or distortions seem like a much better beginner project. There are plenty of options with low part counts. But, we’re losing the original point of the thread here.



The germanium units at least do. 

I agree with you though. I was just illustrating that DIY has evolved into people having LOTS more options than even 12 years ago when I first got into it.


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## Feral Feline (Mar 18, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> It would be nice if people cut their teeth on Fuzz Faces and Rangemasters instead of Low Tides.


This. So much this. ☝️

Wish I’d listened to this advice and started off on a *simple* build instead of a Llama-GreenRinger-EQ-MultiBoost monster. I definitely over-reached for my first pedal. That disaster was a good crash course, nonetheless.


Each PCB Vender I buy from has its merits, and I choose projects on the basis of those aforementioned merits meeting my needs.

I’ve got a pickle-build planned that will require a different board than that offered here;
some things offered here came out after I’d already bought that circuit somewhere else and I’ve no need for two;
conversely, I’ve bought boards here even though I have that circuit already on another vendor’s board,  because the PPCB version has a better layout or is a more accurate version etc;
Some circs are better tweaked, IMO, such as some MB offerings or Boneyard editions here.


Anyway, I see PPCB as an intermediate to advanced builders’ playground while other forums/vendors cater to all levels of builders. There are always opportunity costs; I like obscure hard to find circuits, bass-friendly, modulations… but may still build a YATSy some day.

Trimmers thread — good idea, @Robusto.

Many valid points and food for thought in this thread. 👍🏽


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## Robert (Mar 18, 2022)

I don't think there's any question that the build documentation needs improving in a lot of areas.    The format is a constantly evolving process, nothing at PedalPCB is ever "finalized" and suggestions are _always_ welcomed.   

I've started naming the trim pots more intuitively in recent projects (rather than TRIM1, TRIM2, etc) and have attempted to notate any target voltages/settings when possible but I do agree it would be helpful to list their functions in the doc.


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## fig (Mar 18, 2022)

Robert said:


> I don't think there's any question that the build documentation needs improving in a lot of areas.    The format is a constantly evolving process, nothing at PedalPCB is ever "finalized" and suggestions are _always_ welcomed.
> 
> I've started naming the trim pots more intuitively in recent projects (rather than TRIM1, TRIM2, etc) and have attempted to notate any target voltages/settings when possible but I do agree it would be helpful to list their functions in the doc.


Is that you_r _final answer?


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