# Six String Stinger oddness



## Allthumbs (May 4, 2019)

This is my 3rd pedal, first one from pcb alone, the others were complete kits.  this one went pretty well but acts weird.  

1. it's really quiet.  my J201 were around .36 ma each so I suspect this is why.  I have since found higher value ones to buy so I'll try that if someone can verify that this may be the issue...

2.  the filter pot acts weird in that it doesn't really do much.  I think I read about using an audio taper here instead of linear but I'm not sure.  I hear it change the tone but not much at all.  maybe the volume need to be an audio taper as well?  again, not sure.  

mainly the volume is fairly low, at about 3/4 full it's at unity where by reports of this design it should be loud as hell.  

some help would be greatly appreciated.


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## music6000 (May 5, 2019)

Allthumbs said:


> This is my 3rd pedal, first one from pcb alone, the others were complete kits.  this one went pretty well but acts weird.
> 
> 1. it's really quiet.  my J201 were around .36 ma each so I suspect this is why.  I have since found higher value ones to buy so I'll try that if someone can verify that this may be the issue...
> 
> ...



I built 2 of these way back when & they have plenty of Volume, where did you get the J201's, What Markings are on them?
The Filter is Subtle, Clockwise is cutting Bass, CCW it cuts Treble
Can you post a Picture of the Build clearly showing the Resistors.

Here are some Fairchilds:  https://www.pedalhackerelectronics.com/JFET-J201-Fairchild-FSC-p/j201-10.htm


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## Allthumbs (May 7, 2019)

thanks for the reply.  I got the 201 from Mammoth I believe.


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## music6000 (May 7, 2019)

Allthumbs said:


> thanks for the reply.  I got the 201 from mouser I believe.  View attachment 453


Resistor values look Good, I'm still leaning towards the J201's , they can be prone to Heat damage by Soldering.
Don't Solder all 3 legs in a row, this also includes Pots, Toggle Switches, Footswitches ect.

One good method is to put an alligator clip on the leg as you solder.
This absorbs the heat instead of the component :


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## Allthumbs (May 7, 2019)

That's a good tip, thanks.  I'll use it when swapping out the new 201's


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## tcpoint (May 9, 2019)

You could always lower the source resistors on Q2/Q4 (R8/R14) to increase the gain/volume.  Lowering R8 would increase the gain, lowering R14 would increase the volume.  You might want to lower both.  This might be easier than replacing the J201s.


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## Allthumbs (May 15, 2019)

tcpoint said:


> You could always lower the source resistors on Q2/Q4 (R8/R14) to increase the gain/volume.  Lowering R8 would increase the gain, lowering R14 would increase the volume.  You might want to lower both.  This might be easier than replacing the J201s.


Nice, thanks for that.  would I step down just a bit or drastically?  R14 is 10k, so maybe 5k?


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## zgrav (May 15, 2019)

10K to 5K sounds like a reasonable thing to try.  you could temporarily solder the long leads of another 10K resistor on top of the 10K one already on the board to see what a 5K resistor would sound like.     try to save removing and replacing the one on the board until you know what final value you want to use.  the PCBs can be fragile when removing parts, so it makes sense to limit the number of parts that are removed and replaced.


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## Allthumbs (May 15, 2019)

I have to say that I've gotten used to the pedal as is, volume cracked rather high is sort of in a sweet spot and drives other drives nicely. just a bit increase would be nice on both Vol & G.  BTW, I ordered "high gain" *Siliconix* J201's from Small Bear and they were not. exact same as the last.


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## zgrav (May 15, 2019)

if you like the way it sounds as is, and you are not turning it all the way up and wishing it went to 11, maybe you don't need to change anything.  it still seems like the pedal is supposed to be louder than it is right now, but if you would still end up setting it near unity, it may not make any difference in how it works when you are playing.


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## tcpoint (May 15, 2019)

I have a mod or two that I'm going to try, next week, on this pedal.  I have a friend that likes it, but as is, it doesn't do it for me.  I'll let you all know how it goes.


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## Allthumbs (May 15, 2019)

It;s just above unity right now at about 3 o'clock on the V.  Gain is low up to 3'oclock as well.  I may boost the volume as you suggest after another practice with it.


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## Allthumbs (May 15, 2019)

tcpoint said:


> I have a mod or two that I'm going to try, next week, on this pedal.  I have a friend that likes it, but as is, it doesn't do it for me.  I'll let you all know how it goes.


cool, I'd like to know what you do


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## tcpoint (May 16, 2019)

I'll let you know how it goes, even if it's a fail.  Another mod for more gain would be to put a 1uF cap in parallel with R8.


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## Allthumbs (May 18, 2019)

I was also wondering what mod might affect the tone circuit to get more frequencies at either end.  I'm imagining this is constrained by a resistor as well?  I can't read a schematic but I'd guess R15 or R17?  Maybe that C11 has something to do with that?  
It would be nice if it got brighter or could switch it into a bright setting similar to the "glass" setting on the Duellist.


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## zgrav (May 18, 2019)

First, I am not familiar with this circuit.  Second, you need to be VERY CAREFUL swapping parts in and out of your circuit board, especially if you have not done this before.   PCBs can be very fragile when you unsolder parts and remove them from the board. It is not unusual to damage a board when trying to replace a part, usually because a trace from the part gets ruined.  Isolating and fixing that kind of problem can take patience and learning even more about how the circuit works.  Some people might build a pedal to spec, and then build a second one to do a bit of experimenting with changing the part values.  That also makes it easier to compare the new sound to the old one.

Anyway -- with that caution in mind --- look at your circuit diagram where the tone control is and if you don't understand the diagram for the tone pot to see how it works in that diagram, do enough google searching to figure it out.  

The pot has 3 lugs that solder to the board, and in the circuit diagram you can you have two paths that go to each "side" of the tone pot, and the middle lug connects to the path where the sound goes out.  That means when you turn the pot, it is shifting the output toward one or the other of the two incoming paths.   One path goes through c11, and the other one goes through R15.  

Since you know that each of those paths must sound different since it affects the tone, I would suggest trying different values for C 11.  I would probably try dropping C11 to half that value, and try doubling it to see how that changes the sound on that side of the pot.   You could also try changing the value of R15 if you wanted to see what that did to the tonal balance.


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## Allthumbs (May 18, 2019)

thanks for the infos.


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## tcpoint (May 29, 2019)

I tried some of the mods, I mentioned.  I ended up with too much gain.  However, in the usable range, the sound really became more tubelike and the cleans were better, as well.  I'll tweak it for the next week or two and give you an update.


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## ChrisSchwarzkopf (Jul 12, 2019)

Hello, its quite an old thread but I finished my Six String Stinger and although it sounds kind of nice there is very little gain on tap. I noodled around with it yesterday and had to crank the gain all the way in order to get at least a little crunch out of the thing. I already read this thread and added a 2nd 10k resistor to R8 as suggested (so it should be 5k now right?!) but still not a lot of gain. Is this just the way the circuit works or could there be another problem? My J201s are SMDs on adapter-pads so I assume that they should be ok...


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## Devoureddeth (Jul 12, 2019)

Allthumbs said:


> thanks for the reply.  I got the 201 from Mammoth I believe.  View attachment 453


Are you sure you are sure this is not due to a poor connection due to the 3pdt board soldering? I don't know why people are soldering them like this but filling them is a normal commercial practice. Just fixed an EHX pedal where every lug was filled.


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## Allthumbs (May 4, 2019)

This is my 3rd pedal, first one from pcb alone, the others were complete kits.  this one went pretty well but acts weird.  

1. it's really quiet.  my J201 were around .36 ma each so I suspect this is why.  I have since found higher value ones to buy so I'll try that if someone can verify that this may be the issue...

2.  the filter pot acts weird in that it doesn't really do much.  I think I read about using an audio taper here instead of linear but I'm not sure.  I hear it change the tone but not much at all.  maybe the volume need to be an audio taper as well?  again, not sure.  

mainly the volume is fairly low, at about 3/4 full it's at unity where by reports of this design it should be loud as hell.  

some help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Robert (Jul 12, 2019)

I always fill em up.    I know you run the risk of damaging the switch, but mine are usually already mounted in the enclosure at this point anyway so I'm not too worried about thinking moving while it's hot.

With that said.....  These will be rolling out shortly.





						Updated 3PDT Breakout Boards
					

Not as exciting as a new pedal, but the 3PDT Breakout Boards are being updated to make proper soldering easier (and prevent installing the switch the wrong way)



					forum.pedalpcb.com


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## Allthumbs (Jul 12, 2019)

ChrisSchwarzkopf said:


> Hello, its quite an old thread but I finished my Six String Stinger and although it sounds kind of nice there is very little gain on tap. I noodled around with it yesterday and had to crank the gain all the way in order to get at least a little crunch out of the thing. I already read this thread and added a 2nd 10k resistor to R8 as suggested (so it should be 5k now right?!) but still not a lot of gain. Is this just the way the circuit works or could there be another problem? My J201s are SMDs on adapter-pads so I assume that they should be ok...



Overall  it is a low gain design, I believe.  Not supposed to produce much but enough to add some harmonics and a bit of gnarl.  Try pushing another pedal with it.   It allows you to get a great "edge of breakup" sound.


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## Allthumbs (Jul 12, 2019)

Devoureddeth said:


> Are you sure you are sure this is not due to a poor connection due to the 3pdt board soldering? I don't know why people are soldering them like this but filling them is a normal commercial practice. Just fixed an EHX pedal where every lug was filled.



No it isn't that but After I did this one I became aware of this possiblity.  I believe the circuit is really just low gain by design.  I'm happy with it now.  I use it to push other things just a little bit, a little added tone beef as well.   Nothing drastic, always on


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## bowanderror (Jul 14, 2019)

Judging by the photo, it looks like you’ve got a soldering iron with enough heat, but  you might be able to improve your connections if you really focus on cleaning the tip between each part that you solder. I noticed a big difference when I moved to a copper coil versus a wet sponge.  It’s amazing how fast a layer of oxidation can build up on a soldering iron. I also started using a flux pen and that drastically improved the consistency of my solder joints.


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## Allthumbs (Jul 14, 2019)

bowanderror said:


> Judging by the photo, it looks like you’ve got a soldering iron with enough heat, but  you might be able to improve your connections if you really focus on cleaning the tip between each part that you solder. I noticed a big difference when I moved to a copper coil versus a wet sponge.  It’s amazing how fast a layer of oxidation can build up on a soldering iron. I also started using a flux pen and that drastically improved the consistency of my solder joints.



I think I use too much heat, frankly.  I have one of those tins with a wad of metal coil stuff in it to clean the tip, I tin it each day after use.  It pretty much stays shiny all the time.  No carbon buildup that I can see.  I think backing off the heat will help me.


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## bowanderror (Jul 15, 2019)

Yeah the metal coil thing is exactly what I couldn’t find a name for!

It’s definitely good practice to tin your tip at the end of each work session, but you’re cleaning and re-tinning the tip b/w each joint or several joint as well, right? I usually wipe the tip on both sides and just barely touch a piece of solder wire to coat the tip, making it look shiny and more effectively transfer heat the joint. The oxidation layer is hard to see at first, but a freshly tinned tip will be like a shiny mirror and an oxidized tip will look kinda pale and not smooth. If you’re seeing black carbon build up on the actual tip then you probably need to do a tip renovation or buy a new one.


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## Nostradoomus (Jul 15, 2019)

I use the scrubby pads and a wet sponge (sparingly on the sponge). If the tip gets really gnarly I just take some 1000 grit sandpaper to it


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## Allthumbs (Jul 16, 2019)

bowanderror said:


> Yeah the metal coil thing is exactly what I couldn’t find a name for!
> 
> It’s definitely good practice to tin your tip at the end of each work session, but you’re cleaning and re-tinning the tip b/w each joint or several joint as well, right? I usually wipe the tip on both sides and just barely touch a piece of solder wire to coat the tip, making it look shiny and more effectively transfer heat the joint. The oxidation layer is hard to see at first, but a freshly tinned tip will be like a shiny mirror and an oxidized tip will look kinda pale and not smooth. If you’re seeing black carbon build up on the actual tip then you probably need to do a tip renovation or buy a new one.


no, between each session.  Hitting the coil thing between each component or group of them.  It stays clean and shinny from day 1.  I follow a strict 2 second rule, iron to board.  no more  about 1.5 seconds to heat up the joint, about a half second to apply solder, give or take.  Still, I  think I can lower the heat a bit, and I am sloppier than I'd like


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