# Pot & Kettle Overdrive (Snouse Black Box V2)



## MichaelW (Jul 22, 2022)

So one of recent "employee value benefits" at the company I work for is that during the summer months we have 3 months of what's called "Summer Fridays".

Basically, if you're reasonably caught up with what's on your plate you get to knock off at noon every Friday from June thru September. I totally spaced out and missed the announcement this year and a colleague that I was chatting with reminded me today (because I was trying to schedule a meeting on a Friday afternoon.) 

So I was like WOOT! "I get the afternoon off! Ima build me a pedal"

I had never heard of Snouse before (not a huge surprise coming from someone that never played a Rat or a TS until joining this forum hahah).

When I saw @PedalPCB's "What's on the Workbench" post with a picture of it I was intrigued. Digging around a bit I found out that it was a "YABB".

I really like my MBB variants (Paragon, Pauper, Kings Hand, Pro-10 Blue) but don't like my "actual" Bluesbreaker much (AionFx Cerulean).
Reading the Snouse website it sounded like there are some cool mods to the MBB circuit they did so I snagged the board during the last sale. Of course there were the many "This is the next big thing....." threads on TGP. I always fall for that.........hahah

Anyway, it's a great sounding BB variant with a lot of tonal range in it. Like the Paragon-family you can do the clean boost thing and you get actually get into some high gain sounds. And as with most of MBB variants I've built, while there IS gain on tap, it doesn't sound very good maxed out without some additional eq to tame the fizziness. The P&K is no different, the pedal sounds it's best with the gain knob from low to noon. 

@PedalPCB exposed the rather confusing internal dip switches as toggles which is always a plus for me! Saves me the headache of modding it myself and I've never been one to leave well enough alone when it comes to internal dip switches 

The controls are not the most intuitive and there might be something wrong with my build, I'm not sure because there's no schematic for it (I'll get to that in a sec).
(@PedalPCB any chance you can post the schematic for this?)

The 3 main knobs (Level, Gain, Passive tone control) all work expected. There's also a "Presence" and "Preamp" pot. The Toggles are "Smooth" (Which toggles a bright cap on/off I think) "Clip" which adds the clipping diodes for a more compressed sound with the accompanying volume drop) and "Boost"which toggles between normal and Boost mode. In Boost Mode the "Preamp" knob becomes effective. Otherwise it does nothing. According to the manual this is supposed to act like a pre-gain level to goose the gain setting. It "kinda" does that but this is where my first issue is. In Boost mode, the preamp pot maxes out at around 1 o'clock with no additional output beyond that, which is not unusual, however, in full CCW it turns the whole pedal's volume completely off. Not sure if it's supposed to work this way or not but it doesn't seem right.

The second issue is similar to the first, with the Presence knob.
The control functions and behaves exactly like the Preamp knob. It doesn't really add any presence. In fact it doesn't change the EQ at all, but it's another secondary gain control. In full CWW it turns the pedal output completely off. So given that the Preamp is a B250k and the Presence is an A50k something definitely seems amiss. 

I'm just running it right now with the Preamp and Presence knobs full CW and adjusting the eq and clipping levels with the toggles and the main 3 knobs.

I would be very interested if anyone else has already built this pedal and compare notes. Or if someone has a schematic for this so I can have a looky loo at how it's supposed to be working.

Anyway, it's a nice low-mid gain drive. It leans more towards the tonality of a real MBB than some of the other variants I've built. I built it off the BOM.txt with no substitutions. I also went through my whole stash of 2N5457's and actually found 5 that were in spec (yeehawww) and used a couple of them in this build. I "believe" it's an output gain stage but I could be wrong.

The Matte Army Green Tayda enclosure looks pretty cool. I'm seeing more and more of this Olive Green, Olive Drab on instruments lately, Chicago Music Exchange has a number of Fenders and Squiers in this color. I didn't think much of it at first but it's starting to grow on me. Still, I'm not sure I'd want a guitar in that color but I think the Green/Cream knobs on this pedal looks pretty cool. (Sigh of course like most of the matte colors from Tayda, it scratches if you even LOOK at it funny.....)


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## Alan W (Jul 23, 2022)

I really like your knob choices. I just got this board, along with several other 5 and 6 knob boards, and I’ve been looking at ways for make them seem less knobby. I also 
appreciate your write up— the BBOD2 has been getting so many rave reviews…


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## music6000 (Jul 23, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> So one of recent "employee value benefits" at the company I work for is that during the summer months we have 3 months of what's called "Summer Fridays".
> 
> Basically, if you're reasonably caught up with what's on your plate you get to knock off at noon every Friday from June thru September. I totally spaced out and missed the announcement this year and a colleague that I was chatting with reminded me today (because I was trying to schedule a meeting on a Friday afternoon.)
> 
> ...


The Original has 5 internal Dip switches, it kills  & bypasses the boost section which kind of Sucks!.
This Version has 3 external Dip switches that work similar without effecting the Boost section I believe.

Mr PedalPCB can explain when he reads this post!


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## Robert (Jul 23, 2022)

The original uses three of the dip switches to bypass/enable the boost.  

There are combinations that result in no sound since it breaks the input signal from the pedal.  (SW1.1 open and SW1.2 open, or SW1.3 and SW1.2 open)

I just replaced those three dipswitches with a single toggle switch.  You lose nothing but the possibility for unnecessary confusion.


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## MichaelW (Jul 23, 2022)

Alan W said:


> I really like your knob choices. I just got this board, along with several other 5 and 6 knob boards, and I’ve been looking at ways for make them seem less knobby. I also
> appreciate your write up— the BBOD2 has been getting so many rave reviews…


Those were Snouse's knob choices haha, I just copied the original. I did not have a Black Sand 125B enclosure or I would have used that. But I'm kind digging the Army Green, I may get a couple in other sizes on my next Tayda order.


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## MichaelW (Jul 23, 2022)

Robert said:


> View attachment 29664
> The original uses three of the dip switches to bypass/enable the boost.
> 
> There are combinations that result in no sound since it breaks the input signal from the pedal.  (SW1.1 open and SW1.2 open, or SW1.3 and SW1.2 open)
> ...


Yup, the controls are a bit confusing. I've seen version of the original with all these little toggles sticking out the sides. It almost looks like a Mike Wong pedal build......hahahah 😄. Except I don't charge extra for my extra switches


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## MichaelW (Jul 23, 2022)

music6000 said:


> The Original has 5 internal Dip switches, it kills  & bypasses the boost section which kind of Sucks!.
> This Version has 3 external Dip switches that work similar without effecting the Boost section I believe.
> 
> Mr PedalPCB can explain when he reads this post!


The Boost bypassed it's supposed act like a "normal MBB" according to Snouse. (If I'm reading it correctly). There's actually some good sounds in this mode depending on the guitar/amp combo. But it does shine with the Boost on, I think this is where all the magic happens. Even with the gain dialed back and the boost on, it sounds pretty good.


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## Dan0h (Jul 23, 2022)

Another cool build dude. Your toggle washer ocd is awesome! I have this board almost done as well, just waiting for Tayda bag to show up… I appreciate your heads up and discovery of the switches and might rock this one before boxing it to see if some of the switches I can leave internal.Huge olive drab fan here as well. 
How would you compare this to the protein’s blue side? 
I’ve been on a BB binge lately. morning glory started it.


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## MichaelW (Jul 23, 2022)

Dan0h said:


> Another cool build dude. Your toggle washer ocd is awesome! I have this board almost done as well, just waiting for Tayda bag to show up… I appreciate your heads up and discovery of the switches and might rock this one before boxing it to see if some of the switches I can leave internal.Huge olive drab fan here as well.
> How would you compare this to the protein’s blue side?
> I’ve been on a BB binge lately. morning glory started it.


I think pedal building has become a huge outlet for all sorts of my OCD-ness that I usually manage to keep well hidden hahah. Crooked capacitors that don't line up drive me nuts........

Funny you should ask about the Pro-10 Blue, I actually have these two side by side and was comparing them last night. It's different. The P&T can be made to sound like the Pro-10 Blue but not the other way around. I find the Pro-10 to be more like a "meatier version of the stock MBB sound" but with limited eq options. Whereas the P&T can go a bit beyond what the Pro-10 Blue side does. 

My plan for today was trying to stack some various pedals with the P&T and see how it does.


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## MichaelW (Jul 23, 2022)

Update:

Many thanks to @music6000 and @PedalPCB who work tirelessly behind the scenes to help people overcome stupidity!

So with their guidance, I looked at the CAP that affects the Presence Knob. Honestly the solder joints looked perfectly fine to me. 






But just for giggles I reflowed them anyway and BOOM! The Presence knob now works perfectly!

Must have been a cold solder joint in there or something.

Thanks guys!!


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## szukalski (Jul 23, 2022)

Thanks for the comparison. I finished the Pro-10 Dual last week and have been digging the blue side. A Dragon Breath boost into it kills small animals. Now I’m getting the BB buzz..


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## Harry Klippton (Jul 23, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> Update:
> 
> Many thanks to @music6000 and @PedalPCB who work tirelessly behind the scenes to help people overcome stupidity!
> 
> ...


What a great lesson, Mike! Good job setting your pride aside and making it work!


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## MichaelW (Jul 23, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> What a great lesson, Mike! Good job setting your pride aside and making it work!


I have no shame nor pride, just help me make it WORK!


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## MichaelW (Jul 23, 2022)

Another update: 

With the Presence Knob now working it's got an even wider range of tones available. Dialing back the presence can make the pedal sound thicker, warmer and meatier. That was not "Present" (see what I did there) before with my dysfunctional Presence knob. That additional cap in the signal chain makes a difference. 

If I compare it now to the Pro-10 Blue side, the P&T is capable of "warmth" that's not available on the Pro-10.

Definitely a pretty cool MBB variant.


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## Robert (Jul 23, 2022)

Glad you and @music6000 got it working!


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## swelchy (Jul 23, 2022)

Noted!... this board is going to be on my next pedalpcb order...


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## MattG (Jul 23, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> In Boost mode, the preamp pot maxes out at around 1 o'clock with no additional output beyond that, which is not unusual, however, in full CCW it turns the whole pedal's volume completely off. Not sure if it's supposed to work this way or not but it doesn't seem right.



I have the actual COTS version of the Snouse Black Box (I actually loaned mine to PedalPCB to trace).  I'm not sure about maxing out at 1:00 (honestly I never took it above noon), but if you have it enabled, then it needs to be turned up a bit to get some volume.  It would probably make sense to modify the circuit slightly so that the fully CCW position still gives a little volume.

I have the circuit board built up on my Pot & Kettle PCB, but haven't started on the enclosure yet.  I've been using the no film waterslide method of labeling and decorating my builds, but I only have a black and white printer.  I realized we have a color laser printer at work, so for my Pot & Kettle build I'm going to try to print white (or maybe gold or silver) on the decal and put it on a matte black enclosure (just like the COTS version).

I wish now I'd bought the "stage pro mod" version of the Black Box, it has an extra toggle switch that's supposed to make it better for live use in a band mix.  Presumably it just switched in an extra RC filter somewhere and rolls off some more bass.  When I bought the Black Box, the wait was "only" a year.  Now it's up to three years!  Getting into KOT territory!  But I do agree with Snouse, the stock Blues Breaker is a great circuit, but a bit of a one-trick pony.  The additions he made retain 99% of the original trick while adding some new tricks as well.  Definitely a great pedal if you like the BB thing.


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## MichaelW (Jul 23, 2022)

MattG said:


> I have the actual COTS version of the Snouse Black Box (I actually loaned mine to PedalPCB to trace).  I'm not sure about maxing out at 1:00 (honestly I never took it above noon), but if you have it enabled, then it needs to be turned up a bit to get some volume.  It would probably make sense to modify the circuit slightly so that the fully CCW position still gives a little volume.
> 
> I have the circuit board built up on my Pot & Kettle PCB, but haven't started on the enclosure yet.  I've been using the no film waterslide method of labeling and decorating my builds, but I only have a black and white printer.  I realized we have a color laser printer at work, so for my Pot & Kettle build I'm going to try to print white (or maybe gold or silver) on the decal and put it on a matte black enclosure (just like the COTS version).
> 
> I wish now I'd bought the "stage pro mod" version of the Black Box, it has an extra toggle switch that's supposed to make it better for live use in a band mix.  Presumably it just switched in an extra RC filter somewhere and rolls off some more bass.  When I bought the Black Box, the wait was "only" a year.  Now it's up to three years!  Getting into KOT territory!  But I do agree with Snouse, the stock Blues Breaker is a great circuit, but a bit of a one-trick pony.  The additions he made retain 99% of the original trick while adding some new tricks as well.  Definitely a great pedal if you like the BB thing.


Holy cow, I knew it was "the next big thing" but I didn't think the wait list was that long. I'm really digging the pedal, but not sure I'd wait a year to give someone $190 for one I might try to record a clip a little later, it sounds really good with a bunch of different single coils, particularly the P90's. Now that the Presence is working properly it can fatten up single coils even more. 

Thanks for confirming how the PreAmp works, still figuring out the quirks of the pedal and how to get the best out of it. But it's really growing on me. This pedal and the KingTone Blues Power (Powder Blue) that I did not expect to WOW me very much but they really have. "Somewhat" in the same sonic territory.


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## Alan W (Aug 12, 2022)

Has this schematic been published yet? I’m starting to load my board, but really like to look at schematics before I solder anything in.


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