# The Next Step...



## Coda (Jun 7, 2022)

I'm ready for the next step. I have built many, many pedals, all from Pedal PCB boards (and a few non-PPCB thrown in). At first, I was pretty conscious of trying to follow the BOM as close as possible...looking for the _exact_ transistor listed, etc. Gradually, I began to become interested in modding circuits. This led me to breadboarding (its not a habit...I can quit anytime). Breadboard mods led to more mods, and so on. And now, I'm ready for the next step. I have toyed to heavy mods, as well as designing something new. Meanwhile, I have also started looking into expanding the "y" in _DIY. _With this being the Test Kitchen, which is kinda about testing stuff/ideas, as well as having a bit of help (I came up with the name, after all, so I get to pretend like I have a say in what this sub-forum is about...anyway...). My end goal in this little project is to design from the ground up. I want to be Jamie Stillman...I want to take a time-tested circuit (lets say, a Buzzaround), build it on a breadboard, start changing components, change some controls, and then build that circuit on stripboard/perfboard, whatever, and box it up...

BuddytheReow has done an excellent job with the breadboard tutorials. Since we all know what we are doing now, maybe we can collectively take it to the next step. Let's start _PERFIN' _(lets make that a term). Where should we start? I could write something up about the difference between/benefits of and against the various board mediums...that's an easy one. But what about how to translate a schematic to perf/vero? What else do we need to know?...How do you mount the board in an enclosure? How do you cut the board? Where do babies come from? How do I make an original schematic?...

So, if you are interested in taking it to the next step, learning more about building pedals as a group, and perhaps even designing you very own pedal (probably a fuzz, be honest...) say so in the comments below. If no one is interested I will go about this journey alone...like that trip I took to Mordor that one time...


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## benny_profane (Jun 7, 2022)

Good thoughts. There are a lot of great resources out there with vero/strip board that you could reference to build upon and fill gaps. I’d suggest starting here and see where things may need to be added:






						Vero Layout Guide
					

Collection of vero (stripboard) & tagboard layouts for 100s of popular guitar effects, with over 500 verified designs. DIY your own boutique effects!




					tagboardeffects.blogspot.com


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## Harry Klippton (Jun 7, 2022)

Every time I think about using vero, I think about someone else's vero build I repaired for someone that didn't seem to hold up over time. Perhaps conformal coating is the answer but then that seems like one more reason to not bother. Anybody got insight on this?


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## Big Monk (Jun 7, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> Every time I think about using vero, I think about someone else's vero build I repaired for someone that didn't seem to hold up over time. Perhaps conformal coating is the answer but then that seems like one more reason to not bother. Anybody got insight on this?



It would likely be much better to communally design a simple PCB. 

In this day and age of giving JLCPCB $20 total for 20 PCBs, vero/perf/strip seem very antiquated.


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## Coda (Jun 7, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> It would likely be much better to communally design a simple PCB.
> 
> In this day and age of giving JLCPCB $20 total for 20 PCBs, vero/perf/strip seem very antiquated.


What am I gonna do with 19 extra PCB's? There are too many contests/giveaways around here as it is. Besides, you always end up having to order more than 20...what with all the redesigns...


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## Big Monk (Jun 7, 2022)

Coda said:


> What am I gonna do with 19 extra PCB's? There are too many contests/giveaways around here as it is. Besides, you always end up having to order more than 20...what with all the redesigns...





Sorry! Their minimum is 5, so that's better.


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## benny_profane (Jun 7, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> Every time I think about using vero, I think about someone else's vero build I repaired for someone that didn't seem to hold up over time. Perhaps conformal coating is the answer but then that seems like one more reason to not bother. Anybody got insight on this?


I don't necessarily think that that is required. I do think that planning a vero build to mitigate mechanical stress is an essential part of laying out a build. Having a ton of wires flying around and not providing adequate mechanical support could certainly lead to issues down the road. 



Big Monk said:


> It would likely be much better to communally design a simple PCB.
> 
> In this day and age of giving JLCPCB $20 total for 20 PCBs, vero/perf/strip seem very antiquated.


I mean, sure, but that's talking about a different process altogether. Prototyping boards allow for a builder to take something in an individual direction (e.g., mods, panel layout, integration with other circuits, etc.). Designing a pcb with all of the community additions is a rather inelegant substitution to that since, for example, if you want to have a different layout than what is dictated by the pcb, you're back to the issue of off-board components. How does a community board accommodate personal preferences? Why does one build a 250/Dist+ on vero when there are dozens of options ready-to-buy? 

To illustrate, I'd personally never want to have a toggle in close proximity to the footswitch since that could be a point of mechanical failure. That is a design choice that you're okay with given your BMP circuits. Personal preference is fine and in the spirit of DIY.

Perf is also a super fast and simple solution once you build the skill. Need to add a pre-gain block to a circuit that doesn't have one? Add any number of boost circuits right up front without leaving your bench or firing up eagle/kicad/diptrace/whatever and waiting three weeks for it to arrive at your door.


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## Big Monk (Jun 7, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> I mean, sure, but that's talking about a different process altogether. Prototyping boards allow for a builder to take something in an individual direction (e.g., mods, panel layout, integration with other circuits, etc.). Designing a pcb with all of the community additions is a rather inelegant substitution to that since, for example, if you want to have a different layout than what is dictated by the pcb, you're back to the issue of off-board components. How does a community board accommodate personal preferences? Why does one build a 250/Dist+ on vero when there are dozens of options ready-to-buy?



100% true.

I also think I misread the intent of the original post as well. There is definitely an "on-the-fly" flexibility to vero/perf/strip that can't be fully replicated.


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## fig (Jun 7, 2022)

Coda said:


> There are too many contests/giveaways around here as it is.


Great Caesar‘s ghost!


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## Big Monk (Jun 7, 2022)

One thing to note: You can build universal boards like i did with the MK II/MK 1.5/Supa/Fuzz Face/Treble Booster board I designed a while back:







With careful jumpers, I could build about 8 different vintage dirt boxes on this.


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## dawson (Jun 7, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> Every time I think about using vero, I think about someone else's vero build I repaired for someone that didn't seem to hold up over time. Perhaps conformal coating is the answer but then that seems like one more reason to not bother. Anybody got insight on this?



It seems like not all "VERO" is created equally- I've certainly had a circuit built on super-cheap strip-board fail on me after 2-3 years, but I got ahold of some higher-quality stuff that I haven't gotten around to trying yet.

*All that to say, I hope the new stuff lasts longer.
It sure cost enough to last awhile..


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## Big Monk (Jun 7, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> To illustrate, I'd personally never want to have a toggle in close proximity to the footswitch since that could be a point of mechanical failure. That is a design choice that you're okay with given your BMP circuits. Personal preference is fine and in the spirit of DIY.



You bring up a good point. I made sure to use a short lever switch with the extra nut on the inside to get it as low as it would go. 

That was a case of staying out of the way of the graphics and not having very many places to put it.


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## BuddytheReow (Jun 7, 2022)

I think Chuck said it best on one of my threads when I was balls to the wall with designing my own circuit:

-What do you want the circuit to do? (fuzz was mentioned earlier)
-How do you want the circuit to work? Si, Ge transistors, opamps, jfets, etc.
-Are there building blocks out there that we can work from? In my limited time breadboarding and trying "new" things out, there really aren't 100% original circuits out there anymore, but rather tweaked building blocks stacked together.

I definitely want to learn with the group turning a breadboard build into a veroboard build that isn't flipping huge.

I think PCB design for now is a 'cart before the horse' scenario for us.


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## Harry Klippton (Jun 7, 2022)

BuddytheReow said:


> I definitely want to learn with the group turning a breadboard build into a veroboard build that isn't flipping huge.


Yeah you know what? Fuck it, I'll play along if I can keep up


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## BuddytheReow (Jun 7, 2022)

@Coda I think once we get enough people on board or after a few days time start a new thread and take point for a bit. Without a leader of some kind, these group things fall off the wayside real quick. Not a slight against anyone here. It's just been my experience over time


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## Big Monk (Jun 7, 2022)

What circuit?


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## Coda (Jun 7, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> What circuit?



Good question. Might as well spitball some ideas here. A good place to start would be something that is simple (fuzz), but also has a lot of room for mods. Ideally, not a Fuzz Face. Maybe a BossTone? …


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## fig (Jun 8, 2022)

Coda said:


> Good question. Might as well spitball some ideas here. A good place to start would be something that is simple (fuzz), but also has a lot of room for mods. Ideally, not a Fuzz Face. Maybe a BossTone? …


_PERF-ect!_


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## Big Monk (Jun 8, 2022)

Fuzz-Rite maybe?


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## Coda (Jun 8, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> Fuzz-Rite maybe?



That’s a possibility too, though I feel like there is more room for variety with the BossTone. The Fuzz-rite is a little more limited in its tonal options…*he says while, just nearby, a freshly breadboarded and modded Fuzz-rite sits…newborn and rosy-cheeked…*


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## BuddytheReow (Jun 8, 2022)

Just throwing this out there. Do we want to take a fuzz circuit and tweak it to our liking or put a few circuit blocks together and tweak em individually (booster stage into clipping stage into eq stage and maybe a buffer)?


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## fig (Jun 8, 2022)

Are we doing bare (no copper), strip copper, pad-per-hole, etc? Or is it builder’s choice?


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## fig (Jun 8, 2022)

BuddytheReow said:


> Just throwing this out there. Do we want to take a fuzz circuit and tweak it to our liking or put a few circuit blocks together and tweak em individually (booster stage into clipping stage into eq stage and maybe a buffer)?


I’ll do the power stage.


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## BuddytheReow (Jun 8, 2022)

fig said:


> Are we doing bare (no copper), strip copper, pad-per-hole, etc? Or is it builder’s choice?


I'm personally a fan of strip copper. Got about a dozen sheets sitting in a drawer for the next few dozen builds


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## Coda (Jun 8, 2022)

BuddytheReow said:


> Just throwing this out there. Do we want to take a fuzz circuit and tweak it to our liking or put a few circuit blocks together and tweak em individually (booster stage into clipping stage into eq stage and maybe a buffer)?



This is a good idea. It’s a better deal-type of idea…as some would get more knowledge than just how to diy. 


fig said:


> Are we doing bare (no copper), strip copper, pad-per-hole, etc? Or is it builder’s choice?



Good point. I think thar bridge is well off in the distance, though. Let’s add point-to-point to that list, just to intimidate the fence-sitters…


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## Big Monk (Jun 8, 2022)

I have a spare BB.

I'll throw one of these on after I clean my bench up tonight.


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## fig (Jun 8, 2022)

Coda said:


> This is a good idea. It’s a better deal-type of idea…as some would get more knowledge than just how to diy.
> 
> 
> Good point. I think thar bridge is well off in the distance, though. Let’s add point-to-point to that list, just to intimidate the fence-sitters…


Sorry, had my long-range scanner active. 🤷‍♂️


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## Coda (Jun 8, 2022)

fig said:


> Sorry, had my long-range scanner active. 🤷‍♂️



The long-range report isn’t needed until right before the sports highlights.


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## Harry Klippton (Jun 8, 2022)

Y'all gonna have to post demos of your individual builds tho or else what's the point


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## zgrav (Jun 8, 2022)

for suggesting projects, I think the Interfax Harmonic Percolator has a relatively low parts count and lots of room for interesting variations (like the Catalinbread Karma Suture, e.g.).


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## Coda (Jun 8, 2022)

zgrav said:


> for suggesting projects, I think the Interfax Harmonic Percolator has a relatively low parts count and lots of room for interesting variations (like the Catalinbread Karma Suture, e.g.).



Very good suggestion. There is also a lot of room in that one to play around with different transistors…


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## Dan M (Jun 8, 2022)

This is how I would break it down:
1.  What do I want to make?
2.  What topology do I want to use?
3.  What's the detailed design?

for example:
1.  What do I want to make?
A dirt pedal with a weird ass filter hooked to it.  Filter before or after the dirt?  I don't know, that could be an experiment.

2.  What topology do I want to use?
A twin-tee filter and a bazz-fuss (because they are simple, cheap, and low part count)

3.  What's the detailed design?
I don't know.  I'll do some reading on how the part values impact each of those circuits and fiddle with it (Earthquaker style, because I don't know how to simulate it, what to look for, or what I'm doing in general)

or:
1.  A Rat!  With an HM-2 style tone stack (like those drunk beaver things)
or:
1.  A parallel distortion with a blend knob
or:
1.  Hook a green ringer to something  (and then add a simple boost, paint it with a Patrine Cross and sell it for $800. . . badda-bing!) 🤑💲💰
or:
etc, etc


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## Feral Feline (Jun 8, 2022)

Dan M said:


> This is how I would break it down:
> 1.  What do I want to make?
> 2.  What topology do I want to use?
> 3.  What's the detailed design?
> ...


Combo circuit ie ALL of the above... one enclosure, one bypass footswitch.


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## Barry (Jun 8, 2022)

Hey, I've got it, let's mod a Blues Breaker!!


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## fig (Jun 8, 2022)

Hold on…we’re gettin all Lucy during the Christmas play rehearsal. Cmon Barry, let’s go get a tree.


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## Feral Feline (Jun 9, 2022)

A pink tinfoil tree...







Good grief...


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## BuddytheReow (Jun 9, 2022)

Dan M said:


> A Rat!  With an HM-2 style tone stack (like those drunk beaver things)


This is now on my bucket list! Or, at least on my breadboard list, LOL


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## fig (Jun 20, 2022)

…and then Coda said…


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## Coda (Jun 20, 2022)

fig said:


> …and then Coda said…



I’m working on it. I took the weekend off for my birthday…


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## Harry Klippton (Jun 20, 2022)

Coda said:


> I’m working on it. I took the weekend off for my birthday…


Happy birthday @Coda 🎂


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## fig (Jun 24, 2022)

Coda said:


> I’m working on it. I took the weekend off for my birthday…


Happy Birthday sir!


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## Feral Feline (Jun 24, 2022)

Hoppy Beerday @Coda — hope your birthday celebrations were pedalicious!


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## Coda (Jun 24, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> Hoppy Beerday @Coda — hope your birthday celebrations were pedalicious!



There will be a thread about that…I’ve been busy this week…first week of the Summer Semester…


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## BuddytheReow (Jun 24, 2022)

Coda said:


> There will be a thread about that…I’ve been busy this week…first week of the Summer Semester…


Nothing happens during syllabus week!


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## Big Monk (Jun 25, 2022)

Coda said:


> I’m working on it. I took the weekend off for my birthday…



Slacker…..😂

(Says the guy who still has not delivered any free Fuzz…)


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## Coda (Jun 28, 2022)

Ok. I'm back on the project. I will say this up front: I do not know what I am doing here. I am learning as I go, as I hope others are. We are all in it together. If no one wants to participate, that's fine. I'll carry on solo, and it will at least be documented. If a few people want to play along, I would like everyone to update their progress... 

So. The project is to build a pedal (a fuzz) from scratch, using perf/vero board (still not decided). Most of us know how to solder, and stuff like drilling enclosures/wiring up, etc., so we won't have to focus on that. The main purpose here is to teach how to use the medium on perfboard/veroboard...

Now, what are we gonna build? I've come up with three options. If anyone wants to play along, please comment with your preferred project. Whichever project gets the most votes when I decide to end the voting will be the project. Here are the ideas:
1) Fuzz Face, following the Small Bear tutorial
2) Craig Anderton's Tube Sound Fuzz (I'll scan and post the pages from my copy of EPFM)
3) Mosrite Fuzz-Rite (might be a good companion to another Fuzz-Rite thread)

So vote. Or don't, if you do not intend to participate...or do, whatever. In the meantime, what board are we gonna use? Maybe to help with that I'll put together a perf v. vero primer...


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## BuddytheReow (Jun 28, 2022)

My vote is the Tube Sound Fuzz. Also vero


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## BuddytheReow (Jul 13, 2022)

Nobody else?


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## fig (Jul 14, 2022)

I’ll second BtR’s vote (and go look for 50nF caps).


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## Coda (Jul 14, 2022)

BuddytheReow said:


> My vote is the Tube Sound Fuzz. Also vero





fig said:


> I’ll second BtR’s vote (and go look for 50nF caps).



Sounds good to me. I’m working on an order, and I’ll get my some vero. Meanwhile I’ll scan the Anderson pages, and have a look around to see which layout looks best…


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