# Troubleshooting Glory Hole



## schnerf (May 15, 2020)

It's all together, but it's my first build (of relatively few) that hasn't worked right out of the gates.

I had dry signal when bypassed.
No sound when engaged
No LED

I switched the LED leads, so the red wire goes to A and black to K, even though I had it red to square pad and black to circle pad like I've done previously (this time, I used the pre-wired LED from lovemyswitches--I guess they used opposite wire coloring?) (The diodes are added based on the stripes, the FET/saddle are aligned with the notch toward the top, and all of the electrolytic capacitors are positive side on top (in the square pad) and stripe on the bottom -- my one worry is if the LED was reverse what I'm used to, are the electrolytics reversed as well?)

I still have dry signal on bypass
LED works!
When LED is on, all I get is a hum.

I looked for solder bridges and ran a blade between everything.
I checked for ground faults (everything that beeped looks like it should have a ground connection, except I'm not positive the right-most pin on the A100K pot. This was the only pot pin to beep. The mini toggle didn't beep anywhere.) On the 3PDT breakout, GND always beeped, IN beeped when the LED is lit, and OUT beeped when the LED wasn't lit.
I'm not getting any ground continuity beep on the surface mount transistor leads to the breakout or pads (main board or breakout). I soldered it to the 5457 side of the board and connected left pad to left pad (D), middle to middle (s) and right to right (G) with the chip side up. 
I checked wiring (seems good).

I'll order an audio probe, but any ideas on what else I can test?


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## schnerf (May 15, 2020)

Also, I got this from Lovemyswitches:


> You'll want to test with your multimeter that the black on the LED is connected to ground cuz with out the resistor in there there will be no connection to ground so you need to figure out where that resistor connected to ground and then black will go there



Now I have it in the A/K LED spot. (Now with red going to A and black going to K (and it is beeping as connected to ground). I jumped the R102 resistor spot with a clipped resistor lead and didn't install this resistor. Should I rewire the LED so that the black wire goes somewhere else altogether? Would that affect this?


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## Mcknib (May 16, 2020)

Best to post some pictures of both sides of the board so we can clearly see it and trace your offboard wiring

Check your DC jack wiring if your using one make sure you've got nice correct connections obviously I can't see it but that's what I'd check with it humming in effects mode

Your LED just indicates what position your 3PDTs in you'd get bypass without power or even if you put your IN cable to your OUT jack and visa versa

From your description it sounds like a power problem but as I say it's just guessing without being able to see it 

I'm sure with pics somebody will hopefully see something and help you get it going


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## Nostradoomus (May 16, 2020)

Where exactly did you run a blade? That’s more of a technique for vero board, not pcbs...


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## schnerf (Jul 6, 2020)

Hey guys, sorry for the delay. My computer died and one thing or another kept me away.

I've attached photos. Some notes: 

I bent the prongs on the DC jack to fit in the pedal. I have newer, smaller jacks I can use now, but need washers since they are now smaller than the hole in the case. I don't think that's the problem however.

Bypassed seems fine. When engaged, the LED lights up and sound cuts out. If I turn up the amp volume I can hear a FAINT overdriven tone with all pots maxed.

Sorry for the messy flux. I tried cleaning it with alcohol but it just made it look worse.


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## Nostradoomus (Jul 6, 2020)

Does it work when it’s outside of the enclosure?


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## schnerf (Jul 7, 2020)

Nope. All tests since the initial assembly have been outside of the enclosure (except for the DC jack since it goes through it). I also made sure there was nothing else touching the enclosure to avoid grounding/shorts.


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## Mcknib (Jul 7, 2020)

What voltage do you get to the pcb + and - pads we know you're getting something because your LED lights up but what's the exact reading


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 7, 2020)

If you board is still messy after cleaning with alcohol, then you're not using enough.  You have to rinse the flux off of the board, not just spread it around.

When it comes to Gloryholes, make sure you're on the right side of the wall.


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## schnerf (Jul 8, 2020)

Mcknib said:


> What voltage do you get to the pcb + and - pads we know you're getting something because your LED lights up but what's the exact reading


Ok so I’m very basic with the multimeter so I’m going to explain how I did it in case I’m a moron.

I plugged the dc jack into the old 9v 1700 1spot. The pedal was “on” (the led was on). I set the multimeter to V, put the black common on the - PCB pad and the red  on the + PCB pad. It read 9.48 V DC.


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## Mcknib (Jul 9, 2020)

As far as I can see all your values are correct I'd be looking for a dry solder joint visually inspect your joints and reflow any dull looking or ball like joints 

Post a close up of your FET so we can see how it's soldered to the adaptor board


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## docgerlach (Jul 9, 2020)

I just finished up my glory hole too and I am having the exact same issue. Power reading is good, no dry solder joints, wiring is exactly how the schematic specifies, but still nothing. At first my led wasn’t turning on like you, but it turned out to be that it was making contact with my case. I’m still not getting any signal when the pedal is on. Any help is appreciated


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 9, 2020)

Detailed photos would be appreciated.


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## docgerlach (Jul 15, 2020)

From what I can tell, nothing is bridging and causing a bad connection. All the wires and joints are making full contact, and nothing is in the wrong place. Now I could be wrong because I’m fairly new at this and a second set of eyes always helps. Something that might be worth noting, is that I did not have a 2N5457 transistor on hand, so I substituted it with a 2N3904 leftover from another pedal. But from what I read that shouldn’t keep the pedal from working? Again I could be wrong. Just to explain the problem again, the pedal works fine in bypass, signal flows through, but as soon as I switch it on, it cuts out and nothing comes through anymore.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 15, 2020)

I believe we have identified the problem.  A BJT (bipolar junction transistor) is almost never a drop-in replacement for a JFET.  Certainly not gonna work in this pedal.  
Three questions: 
Do you have plans to acquire a 2N5457?
Do you have any JFETs?
Are there any other parts substitutions you want to tell us about?


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## docgerlach (Jul 16, 2020)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I believe we have identified the problem.  A BJT (bipolar junction transistor) is almost never a drop-in replacement for a JFET.  Certainly not gonna work in this pedal.
> Three questions:
> Do you have plans to acquire a 2N5457?
> Do you have any JFETs?
> Are there any other parts substitutions you want to tell us about?


THANK YOU!! Right after posting here, I posted on the DIYPedals subreddit and got the same response. I had no idea what JFET was until yesterday. But now I do and ordered a pack off eBay that should be here later this week. This was the only substitution so we’ll see what happens after I replace it. Thanks for the help! Also, sorry for hijacking this thread OP! Maybe you’re having the same issue?


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## Nostradoomus (Jul 16, 2020)

Oh no, buying JFETs off eBay is not a good idea. Tons and tons of fake/out of spec ones out there, hopefully you’ll get some decent ones but if not you must get them from somewhere reputable like smallbear electronics. What kind did you order?


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 16, 2020)

I agree with what Nostrodoomus said.
I get the feeling that you're not just new to this site, you're new to pedal building.  Here's a warning that may have come too late for you:
Buying transistors, particularly JFETs, on eBay is very risky.  Most of the sellers do not know any more than you do about JFETs.  And then there are the guys who knowingly sell crap.  I'd say the chances that you get anything good are no better than 50/50.  You need to have the tools and skills to test transistors and the heart of a gambler if you want to buy semiconductors on eBay.  Unless you have a socket on the board, and it looks like you don't, then don't waste your time installing questionable parts.  Or the next question you'll be asking us is "how do I repair a damaged trace?"


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## docgerlach (Jul 21, 2020)

Welp, wish I had come back and read your responses first. Your assessment of me not knowing what I'm doing was correct. I ordered some JFET 2N5457's on eBay and just threw them in the pedal and still nothing. Either they are fake or something else is really wrong with my pedal. Is there any way I can test to see if they're legit without buying a socket? Also do you guys know anywhere I can get legit 5457's? Tayda doesn't have any, smallbear doesn't either. eBay had an abundance but I guess I know better now. This is becoming really aggravating. I also ordered some J201 transistors from the same guy on eBay and I'm having second thoughts about putting those anywhere near my other pedals


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## Many__Of__Horror (Jul 21, 2020)

I'm going to use SMD for this build:
2N5457 SMD
Pin Headers
Tayda Conversion Board OR
PedalPCB Conversion Board


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## schnerf (May 15, 2020)

It's all together, but it's my first build (of relatively few) that hasn't worked right out of the gates.

I had dry signal when bypassed.
No sound when engaged
No LED

I switched the LED leads, so the red wire goes to A and black to K, even though I had it red to square pad and black to circle pad like I've done previously (this time, I used the pre-wired LED from lovemyswitches--I guess they used opposite wire coloring?) (The diodes are added based on the stripes, the FET/saddle are aligned with the notch toward the top, and all of the electrolytic capacitors are positive side on top (in the square pad) and stripe on the bottom -- my one worry is if the LED was reverse what I'm used to, are the electrolytics reversed as well?)

I still have dry signal on bypass
LED works!
When LED is on, all I get is a hum.

I looked for solder bridges and ran a blade between everything.
I checked for ground faults (everything that beeped looks like it should have a ground connection, except I'm not positive the right-most pin on the A100K pot. This was the only pot pin to beep. The mini toggle didn't beep anywhere.) On the 3PDT breakout, GND always beeped, IN beeped when the LED is lit, and OUT beeped when the LED wasn't lit.
I'm not getting any ground continuity beep on the surface mount transistor leads to the breakout or pads (main board or breakout). I soldered it to the 5457 side of the board and connected left pad to left pad (D), middle to middle (s) and right to right (G) with the chip side up. 
I checked wiring (seems good).

I'll order an audio probe, but any ideas on what else I can test?


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 21, 2020)

docgerlach said:


> Welp, wish I had come back and read your responses first. Your assessment of me not knowing what I'm doing was correct. I ordered some JFET 2N5457's on eBay and just threw them in the pedal and still nothing. Either they are fake or something else is really wrong with my pedal. Is there any way I can test to see if they're legit without buying a socket? Also do you guys know anywhere I can get legit 5457's? Tayda doesn't have any, smallbear doesn't either. eBay had an abundance but I guess I know better now. This is becoming really aggravating. I also ordered some J201 transistors from the same guy on eBay and I'm having second thoughts about putting those anywhere near my other pedals


Doc,
I don't know what your electronics capabilities are, so I'm going to ask a few questions.  It is not my intent to be insulting, so please don't take it that way.
1. Do you own a DMM?
2. If so, so you know how to use it?
3. Do you have a few clip leads?
4. Are you able to identify the S, D & G leads on a JFET?

If the answer to all of these questions is "yes", then it is a simple matter to measure Idss and Vp.  That will tell you if a particular JFET is in-spec or if it's even a JFET.

There are other JFETs that SB carries which will work as subs in your Gloryhole.


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## caiofilipini (Jul 22, 2020)

I've used these in my Glory Hole build and they're legit:









						**JFET 2N5457 - Guaranteed Genuine - GuitarPCB
					

(1) Genuine 2N5457 JFET Transistor from my own personal collection. Hand Tested and all are in the proper range for guitar pedals.




					guitarpcb.com


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## docgerlach (Jul 31, 2020)

Okay. Well, I decided to play it safe and I bought some JFETs from guitarpcb.com and they seem legit and checked out when I tested them. But still no noise coming out of the pedal. I then replaced my DC jack thinking that could be a problem, still nothing. Then I tested my foot switch and found that the middle row had no continuity and I thought I’d finally found it, but surprise, still nothing after replacing it with a working one. I’ve checked over every component to the best of my ability with a DMM and everything seems to check out. And just as a precaution I re-flowed EVERY joint and checked over every wire. At this point, literally every component, wire and part has been double and triple checked. Is it at all possible that the pcb itself is just faulty or broken somehow?? I have no idea what else could be wrong. Pedal works in bypass but has no signal when on. I’m about ready to call the project a total loss but I really want to hear it work!!


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 31, 2020)

Do you want to measure some voltages on the board?  If so, we can do some systematic troubleshooting.


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## docgerlach (Jul 31, 2020)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Do you want to measure some voltages on the board?  If so, we can do some systematic troubleshooting.


Yes please. I’m up for anything at this point


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 31, 2020)

With power on and no signal, measure these voltages & report back:
IC1 pins 1, 7 & 8
Q1 D & S

This will tell us if things are biasing correctly.


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## docgerlach (Jul 31, 2020)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> With power on and no signal, measure these voltages & report back:
> IC1 pins 1, 7 & 8
> Q1 D & S
> 
> This will tell us if things are biasing correctly.



Alright, here’s what I found.
For reference, I measured 9.1 V on the pcb pads.
IC1
pin 1: 0.0v
pin 7: 7.9v
pin 8: 8.8v

Q1
D: 8.2v
S: 0.3v

I also wrapped the board in a paper towel this morning to isolate it from the case and make sure nothing was grounding out. Still nothing


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 31, 2020)

IC1 is not biasing correctly.  Pins 1 & 7 should be at about 4.5V.  Q1 is not biasing correctly either. Q1 S should be above 0.5V.  You said you tested Q1.  Did you measure Vp & Idss?

Measure IC1 pin 5, Vref.  Should be 4.5V  I suspect you have at least one short on the board.

Post pix of both sides of the board since you installed Q1.


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## docgerlach (Jul 31, 2020)

Well, like I said I don’t really know what I’m doing here. I thought Q1 was good. How would I go about testing Vp and Idss? 

Pin 5 measures at 0.6v

Sorry for the hassle and my lack of knowledge. 

Here are pics with the new Q1 from guitarpcb.com


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jul 31, 2020)

I can't read the top of IC1.  Is it an LM833 and where did you get it?

Just to be clear, when you measure voltage, the - lead of your DMM is grounded to one of the jacks, yes?


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## docgerlach (Aug 1, 2020)

Ah sorry, bad lighting. Here’s a better picture. 


I’ll be darned... The bag it came out of said it was an LM833N but that is not what it says on top. I could be mistaken but this looks like the wrong IC. It came from Tayda. Is this my problem?? 

Also, yes I am grounding it to one of the jacks when measuring.


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## temol (Aug 1, 2020)

You have wrong IC installed here. And no IC socket... If you manage to remove the chip (without damaging solder pads), install a socket.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Aug 1, 2020)

temol said:


> You have wrong IC installed here. And no IC socket... If you manage to remove the chip (without damaging solder pads), install a socket.


Indeed.  I'm not a fan of IC sockets... until it comes to troubleshooting.  NB: better photos early on would have saves us all a lot of time.  

Sacrifice the chip, not the board.  Cut all of the IC leads, then unsolder each one individually.  Use solder braid, solder sucker and/or tweezers.  Minimize the heat applied to the board.

This will correct the problem with the IC, but Q1 still has a problem.  Did you buy more than one 2N5457?  If so, we should test the other one(s) to see why the one on the board is running so cold.


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## docgerlach (Aug 1, 2020)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Indeed.  I'm not a fan of IC sockets... until it comes to troubleshooting.  NB: better photos early on would have saves us all a lot of time.
> 
> Sacrifice the chip, not the board.  Cut all of the IC leads, then unsolder each one individually.  Use solder braid, solder sucker and/or tweezers.  Minimize the heat applied to the board.
> 
> This will correct the problem with the IC, but Q1 still has a problem.  Did you buy more than one 2N5457?  If so, we should test the other one(s) to see why the one on the board is running so cold.


I am incredibly embarrassed that I didn’t catch this sooner. I am also really sorry if this felt like a waste of time for you guys. However I have learned a lot about troubleshooting so thank you for that! I will get a new IC ordered asap. I did order 3 2N5457s so I have 2 left right now. I also have a handful from ebay but Im apprehensive about using those. What’s the best way to test them? If you don’t mind sharing


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## Chuck D. Bones (Aug 1, 2020)

Measuring JFETs:
*Vp*
Connect drain to +9V.
Connect gate to GND.
Connect DMM between gate & source, + end at gate, measure *voltage*.
The voltage reading will be negative for N-channel JFETs like 2N5457.  Spec for 2N5457 is -0.5V to -6.0V.  Anything more negative than -3.0V will be useless in this circuit.
*Idss*
Connect drain to +9V.
Connect gate to source.
Connect DMM between source and ground, + end at source, measure *current*.
Spec for 2N5457 is 1 to 5mA.

So we don't repeat the problem we had with the IC, be sure to read the printing on the JFET and verify that it is 2N5457.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Aug 1, 2020)

docgerlach said:


> I am incredibly embarrassed that I didn’t catch this sooner. I am also really sorry if this felt like a waste of time for you guys.



Don't worry about it.  This is a learning experience.  When I start a troubleshooting task, I stick with it as long as the person I'm helping stays engaged.  I appreciate it when you make my part of the job easier.

I recommend that you order extra parts, especially semiconductors, because sometimes you are going to need the spares.  Whatever you don't consume in one build can be used in another.


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