# How ugly is it allowed to be if it works?



## vigilante398 (May 6, 2022)

Tube preamp pedals are kind of my main thing, but I mostly use SMD so I can fit things in tight spaces. Well a friend of mine asked me to do a simple tube preamp PCB with through-hole parts so he could build one. I had this idea of conveniently mounting the tube inside the enclosure without needing an extra "daughter board" to mount it, but it limits the real estate on the board so it turned into a tightly populated ugly mess. It works and sounds good though, so I don't know. Anyway.

It's another version of my "Space Heater" preamp, single 12AX7, nixie power supply running around 250V.


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## G.G. (May 6, 2022)

is the ugly part on the back?  Looks super neat and clean to me. Very cool project!!


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## vigilante398 (May 6, 2022)

G.G. said:


> is the ugly part on the back?  Looks super neat and clean to me. Very cool project!!


Thanks  I guess part of the ugliness is on the back, I couldn't fit everything so the input and output caps for the power supply are mounted on the back, looking at the first pic you can see part of one of them on the right side. But the general densely populated board looks crowded and ugly to me. Maybe it's just me


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## Coda (May 6, 2022)

This thread is like Brad Pitt walking into a meeting for the Troll Under the Bridge union, and apologizing for looking hideous…


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## jeffwhitfield (May 6, 2022)

Extremely ugly! Put that thing in a toilet paper roll if ya want. 🤪

err…what circuit is that? And what tube did you use?


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## peccary (May 6, 2022)

That's super rad! 

So when is the Sushi Box PCB store opening up, now?


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## vigilante398 (May 6, 2022)

jeffwhitfield said:


> Extremely ugly! Put that thing in a toilet paper roll if ya want. 🤪
> 
> err…what circuit is that? And what tube did you use?


It's a Sushi Box Space Heater, one of my designs. Uses a 12AX7, but a good number of my customers like to swap it for 12AT7 or 12AU7 for less dirt.



peccary said:


> That's super rad!
> 
> So when is the Sushi Box PCB store opening up, now?


Extremely unlikely  I like designing PCBs, I don't like writing documentation or making sure everyone gets their build working. I may do one here and there, but I don't plan to make it a regular thing.


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## Coda (May 6, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> Extremely unlikely  I like designing PCBs, I don't like writing documentation or making sure everyone gets their build working. I may do one here and there, but I don't plan to make it a regular thing.



Caveat Emptor…


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## peccary (May 6, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> Extremely unlikely  I like designing PCBs, I don't like writing documentation or making sure everyone gets their build working. I may do one here and there, but I don't plan to make it a regular thing.



Totally understandable - that's a lot of work, especially considering it's on top of your regular life as well!


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## fig (May 6, 2022)

That’s a cool thingy! 
I thought about learning the art of design, but there are so many willing and more importantly _talented _folks, yourself included, that I could probably schmooze into whipping one up for me should I come up any ideas.….wait…I have an idea! 

[commence schmoozing]


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## vigilante398 (May 6, 2022)

Well I figured out how to make it a little less ugly by making it more ugly  If I use the 630V film caps from Tayda instead of these sexy axial ones I can move things around a little and get all the components on one side of the board. So the top will look even more crowded, but the bottom won't have any random caps tacked on, so I'll feel better about myself. 

Apparently I missed adding this to my most recent PCB order by a matter of hours, it just shipped. So I guess whenever I have more stuff to order (probably this weekend) I'll order the redesigned boards for this.


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## cwsquared (May 6, 2022)

Don't lie, it's because the wires to the jacks aren't perfectly straight, isn't it?  I am with everybody else, looks great to me.


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## spi (May 6, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> I don't like writing documentation


That doesn't seem to be a blocker for some other PCB sellers either.


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## Harry Klippton (May 6, 2022)

spi said:


> That doesn't seem to be a blocker for some other PCB sellers either.


From the sound of things, the boards don't even have to work


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## Mentaltossflycoon (May 6, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> It's a Sushi Box Space Heater, one of my designs. Uses a 12AX7, but a good number of my customers like to swap it for 12AT7 or 12AU7 for less dirt.
> 
> 
> Extremely unlikely  I like designing PCBs, I don't like writing documentation or making sure everyone gets their build working. I may do one here and there, but I don't plan to make it a regular thing.



If it came with a parts list, I'd be interested. No expectations of troubleshooting attention.


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## JamieJ (May 7, 2022)

That is not ugly @vigilante398 - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

That looks like a great way to get into building tube based pedals. One without a massive parts count.


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## zgrav (May 9, 2022)

was that designed to fit in a 125B?  certainly a full board, but that has more to do with using the through hole parts instead of your preferred SMD real estate.  amazing to know you are able to run that at voltage.


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## vigilante398 (May 9, 2022)

zgrav said:


> was that designed to fit in a 125B?  certainly a full board, but that has more to do with using the through hole parts instead of your preferred SMD real estate.  amazing to know you are able to run that at voltage.


Yup, designed for 125B. It would have been a more comfortable fit in 1590BB, but at that point I would feel like I'm wasting space.


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## Paradox916 (May 9, 2022)

That’s awesome! it looks like a twig and giggle berries….🤣🤣🤣


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## Coda (May 9, 2022)

You want ugly? Here is my Fuzz Factory…


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## fig (May 9, 2022)

Coda said:


> You want ugly? Here is my Fuzz Factory…


Damn bro, that’s so ugly the transistors left.


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## Coda (May 9, 2022)

fig said:


> Damn bro, that’s so ugly the transistors left.



The transistors were redacted via photoshop, to protect the identities of the innocent…


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## mybud (May 9, 2022)

Coda said:


> The transistors were redacted via photoshop, to protect the identities of the innocent…


No transistors were harmed in the making of this pedal, I take it?


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## vigilante398 (May 12, 2022)

But I got new boards ordered anyway. The newer version will be just as crowded but slightly less ugly.


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## JamieJ (May 12, 2022)

How many are you ordering at a time??


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## vigilante398 (May 12, 2022)

JamieJ said:


> How many are you ordering at a time??


This order has 5 designs, but 4 of them have assembly. PCBs themselves don't cost much, but assembly gets expensive fast, especially if you use oddball components.


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## Robert (May 12, 2022)

How ugly is acceptable? ....   you tell me.    
Your PCBs are going to be juuuust fine.





I can relate, my last JLCPCB order was over $8K.... they do tend to expedite things a bit at that rate though.

I've never used JLCPCB for assembly, they only recently started offering external part sourcing and never seemed to have what I needed in their component library.  I might have to give them a shot next time around, I like their PCBs better than most of the other guys.  Slightly more expensive, but significantly better quality.

I used to break orders up into smaller batches to avoid ridiculous customs fees, but that has become far too time consuming so I just take the hit and move on.

You want to _really_ be in for a shock? Get a quote from a USA based manufacturer.


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## vigilante398 (May 12, 2022)

Robert said:


> You want to _really_ be in for a shock? Get a quote from a USA based manufacturer.


We have to use USA based shops for boards for my day job, so I'm definitely aware I have it good at JLC. I think the last board that I ordered directly we got qty 5 for about $12k.


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## Robert (May 12, 2022)

Yep, that's how it was sourcing parts when I worked on the base.   They'd pay 10 times too much and would have to wait 6 - 12 months for a common component that could be delivered within a few days otherwise.    I'm talking resistors and capacitors, and this was _before_ the semiconductor shortage.

I would actually bring in my own components from home for troubleshooting, then order from the approved sources when I knew what we needed.

Oh I'd love to support American businesses but the most basic PCBs would cost like $60 each just to break even.   

I don't even want to think about the cost of assembly.


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## JamieJ (May 12, 2022)

That BJFE art looks like when you were panicking to finish your school homework during the lesson.


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## Robert (May 12, 2022)

It's tragic really, they're great pedals but they look _so_ bad.   

I know artwork isn't everything, but my goodness.


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## Harry Klippton (May 12, 2022)

I never even heard of bjfe til I started hanging around here. That shit looks 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮


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## giovanni (May 12, 2022)

Robert said:


> How ugly is acceptable? ....   you tell me.
> Your PCBs are going to be juuuust fine.
> 
> View attachment 26217
> ...


Sorry $8K for how many different boards and what total quantity? If you don’t mind me asking that is!


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## Robert (May 12, 2022)

giovanni said:


> Sorry $8K for how many different boards and what total quantity? If you don’t mind me asking that is!



A pallet was involved.    There were thousands.

Some were for here, some were a custom job for another vendor.


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## Feral Feline (May 13, 2022)

What about some sort of Sushibox & PedalPCB collab?
@PedalPCB & @vigilante398, would that be of any interest to (hopefully both of) you?


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## giovanni (May 13, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> What about some sort of Sushibox & PedalPCB collab?
> @PedalPCB & @vigilante398, would that be of any interest to (hopefully both of) you?


That would be awesome!


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## temol (May 13, 2022)

Robert said:


> View attachment 26217


Nice colour. Now I have to find something similar in a powder 
Do you have any info about this finish?


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## JamieJ (May 13, 2022)

Another thing about that BJFE, I personally hate how high the footswitch is. I know that means you can get a battery in but I think it ruins the aesthetics of the pedal.


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## giovanni (May 13, 2022)

JamieJ said:


> Another thing about that BJFE, I personally hate how high the footswitch is. I know that means you can get a battery in but I think it ruins the aesthetics of the pedal.


I agree, I don't like that at all. Who uses batteries anyways?!?


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## fig (May 13, 2022)

temol said:


> Nice colour. Now I have to find something similar in a powder
> Do you have any info about this finish?


That was my thought…”nice green..too bad they scribbled all over it”


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## JamieJ (May 13, 2022)

Not to seem like I’m shitting on Bjorn. He’s obviously a very clever designer. I suppose he started in the boutique era and now that’s just his MO.


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## Passinwind (May 15, 2022)

Robert said:


> How ugly is acceptable? ....   you tell me.
> Your PCBs are going to be juuuust fine.
> 
> View attachment 26217
> ...


Word. I pinged the guys who do the DK Red boards for DigiKey on a simple onboard preamp. The quote was like $1200 for the same quantity and spec JLC charged me around 35 bucks for. Apparently that vendor really really doesn't like doing plated slots...


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## vigilante398 (May 23, 2022)

I got my new boards for this yesterday and the design is still tightly packed but looks a lot better. I switched to these Tayda film caps instead of the Mallory 150s to save space, that helped a lot.

There's an internal short on the board so I had to hack a trace to get it working (I triple-checked my files and it looks like I had it right and JLC messed up somewhere), but it works. I have a box drilled up for it, I'll get it boxed sometime this week and throw a build report up.


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## HamishR (May 25, 2022)

Robert said:


> How ugly is acceptable? ....   you tell me.
> Your PCBs are going to be juuuust fine.
> 
> View attachment 26217
> ...


And if the outside is bad, wait until you see inside! Seriously...


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## HamishR (May 25, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> I got my new boards for this yesterday and the design is still tightly packed but looks a lot better. I switched to these Tayda film caps instead of the Mallory 150s to save space, that helped a lot.
> 
> There's an internal short on the board so I had to hack a trace to get it working (I triple-checked my files and it looks like I had it right and JLC messed up somewhere), but it works. I have a box drilled up for it, I'll get it boxed sometime this week and throw a build report up.
> 
> View attachment 26632View attachment 26633


It's all about context. Compared to many PCB layouts I think that looks efficient and neat. Compared to Kate Beckinsale, well, that's a different story...


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## grabo99 (May 27, 2022)

You should ask my parents


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