# Low tide help?



## spilla (Aug 17, 2021)

Just boxed. Im getting audio when engaged (also when bypassed) but no noticeable effect. Mix and level knob pots are working, the other pots dont really effect the audio. Any tips on where to go from here? I can post voltages if needed.

Thanks in advance!


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## Hirti (Aug 17, 2021)

I had the same problem on my build. I had to turn the Gate trimmer almost fully CW to get an effect. Maybe that‘s also the problem on yours.


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## spilla (Aug 17, 2021)

Hirti said:


> I had the same problem on my build. I had to turn the Gate trimmer almost fully CW to get an effect. Maybe that‘s also the problem on yours.


Thanks man, think ive got it now. One of the bat48's wasnt seated properly. Jsut need to tune it now!


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## spilla (Aug 17, 2021)

Still not working correctly. I thought it was jsut a matter of tuning but its still not making any effect to the audio.

Can someone confirm i have the IC's orientated correctly, build doc hasnt been updated with the new layout. Im going off the picture on the main page. 

I've soldered the 3904's, bat48's and j201's to the sockets just to be sure they are contacting properly. Im also using a j201 inplace of the 2SK208-Y. I believe i have it orientated correctly. Ive also replaced the j201's with a new set just incase they were causing an issue, no change after doing so. Next up i'll swap some of the IC's.

Unfortunately i was only able to get a hold of NOS 3207's on ebay.  Im hoping that isnt the issue.

Edit: When i turn mix pot anti clockwise it gets more distorted, almost behaves like a drive pedal (albeit anticlockwise) turning clockwise it cleans up and with mix on max its almost silent


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## Stickman393 (Aug 17, 2021)

Hmm.  I'm not seeing anything immediately that strikes me as being out of place.

Can you grab IC VOLTAGES?


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## spilla (Aug 17, 2021)

Stickman393 said:


> Hmm.  I'm not seeing anything immediately that strikes me as being out of place.
> 
> Can you grab IC VOLTAGES?


Sure, i hope ive done it right, the ** is where the volatage was changing (i guess due to the randomizer?)


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## spilla (Aug 17, 2021)

I used this numbering system.


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## Stickman393 (Aug 17, 2021)

From a quick glance, pin 4 on your BBD doesn't look right.

Double check R34 there.  Looks like you have a 330K?  It should be a 330 ohm.


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## music6000 (Aug 17, 2021)

Stickman393 said:


> From a quick glance, pin 4 on your BBD doesn't look right.
> 
> Double check R34 there.  Looks like you have a 330K?  It should be a 330 ohm.
> 
> ...


Yep, Good Catch, R34 definitely 330K , Should be 330 ohm = Orange, Orange, Black, Black. Brown.

It's quite common when a PCB uses a 33 value to see 330 ohm, 3K3, 33K, 330K somewhere on the board!

Same with 47 value, 470 ohm, 4K7, 47K, 470K!!!

One bloody colour Band different !!!


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## Stickman393 (Aug 17, 2021)

music6000 said:


> Yep, Good Catch, R34 definitely 330K , Should be 330 ohm = Orange, Orange, Black, Black. Brown.
> 
> It's quite common when a PCB uses a 33 value to see 330 ohm, 3K3, 33K, 330K somewhere on the board!
> Same with 47 value, 470 ohm, 4K7, 47K 470K!!!
> ...



Yup...that's part of why I've taken to ordering vishay RN55's/CMF55s and PRP PR series for the majority of my builds.

One less code to decipher.


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## spilla (Aug 17, 2021)

Awesome, thanks! I would never have found that. I'll go swap it out.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Aug 19, 2021)

Is it working now?


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## spilla (Aug 19, 2021)

No, that didn't fix the issue. I'm starting to think the 3207's i've got are duds. They were NOS bl3207 i bought from ebay. Good news is i've ordered some V3207D from cabintech thanks to the stickied thread.  Bad news is i think i've fried my randoimizer while reading voltages. But pedalpcb kindly have sent me another (also order another low tide!).

I was (before i fried the IC) seeing some change in audio when playing with the control but the BDD trimmer seem to be doing nothing. So i hoping thats the issue. In the mean time im going to check the colour codes on the resistors just incase ive misplaced another part.


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## Teddeeh (Aug 19, 2021)

i believe im having the same issue. i think its going to be regarding the gate area as there seems to be no real change to effect atall with that. this is the third ive built and where i et signal passing i get no effect. 3207 is legit and working. all components where replaced and used in different shallow waters to working effect.


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## bowanderror (Aug 19, 2021)

The pinout of 2SK170 (through-hole equivalent of the 2SK208) is DGS, but the J201 pinout is DSG. I can't quite see from the photos, so make sure you've swapped the Gate & Source pins before placing it in the socket. To keep them from shorting out as you cross them over, you can use a piece of heat shrink tubing or a piece of stripped wire insulation on one lead.


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## spilla (Aug 19, 2021)

bowanderror said:


> The pinout of 2SK170 (through-hole equivalent of the 2SK208) is DGS, but the J201 pinout is DSG. I can't quite see from the photos, so make sure you've swapped the Gate & Source pins before placing it in the socket. To keep them from shorting out as you cross them over, you can use a piece of heat shrink tubing or a piece of stripped wire insulation on one lead.


Thanks, i had missed that.


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## spilla (Aug 19, 2021)

Teddeeh said:


> i believe im having the same issue. i think its going to be regarding the gate area as there seems to be no real change to effect atall with that. this is the third ive



what layout are you using? the revised one (where ic 4&6 are orientated differently) or the one in the build doc?


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## spilla (Sep 10, 2021)

The randomizer turned up today. Ive swapped the j201 legs as per bowanderror's advice: is this the correct pinout? I've also checked all resistor values and they seem to be correct.

Im getting audio when engaged (also when bypassed) but no noticeable effect. When mix knob is fully clockwise i get no sound and  turning counter-clockwise brings the audio back.

Is that normal behaviour for the mix pot?


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## bowanderror (Sep 10, 2021)

Based on the 2SK208 datasheet:




The board should be:




but maybe the designer can confirm.


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## spilla (Sep 11, 2021)

Yeah that does seem to be the way. Im now getting a stronger audio signal using that pinout. Im also getting an audio signal with mix on full (on some settings). I dont seem to hearing any chorusing.  I think i need to read more on how to set it up.

whats a good starting point for all pots and trimmers?

edit: im also using a cabintech v3207 now.


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## spilla (Aug 17, 2021)

Just boxed. Im getting audio when engaged (also when bypassed) but no noticeable effect. Mix and level knob pots are working, the other pots dont really effect the audio. Any tips on where to go from here? I can post voltages if needed.

Thanks in advance!


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## spilla (Sep 11, 2021)

Ive been trying to dial in the low tide setup most of the afternoon. But im not getting any chorusing. I do notice a chorus effect when moving the depth pot back and forward but once its stopped moving i dont hear any chorus effect. My gate trim pot is low passing the audio and if i set it to low (CCW) it kills the audio. The BBD trimmer seems to have a sweet spot at 90% CW. But im not hearing any chorusing.

this comment leads to to suspect something isn't right:



> Yeah, it's not terribly difficult. It's rather apparent when you've dialed it in.



I've gather all the comments relating to biasing the low tide:


> Biasing the Pork Barrel is very straight forward. Set your Rate knob to its midpoint and the Depth knob to maximum. Ad- just the T1 trimmer until you get the maximum chorus effect with minimal distortion. That’s it!"
> 
> To bias the chorus effect, set the VB trimmer to its midpoint. Now adjust it left and right while playing
> your guitar until you get the chorus effect. You most likely will not need to make a fine adjustment.
> There is a wide range the chorus will work over.





> LPG ADJUST (i.e., GATE TRIM)
> The recovery filter’s lowest frequency can be adjusted, to fine tune the way it will react to incoming signals. Lowering this frequency emphasizes the action of the low pass filter, effectively raising the threshold of sensitivity. Adjustment should be made with the following settings: MIX full wet, LPG minimum, DEPTH minimum. While listening to a signal going through the pedal, you’ll hear the effect of the recovery filter at its resting state. Carefully turn the trimpot labelled LPG adjust (i.e., GATE TRIM), clockwise to raise the filter’s frequency, counter-clockwise to lower. Be very careful, adjustments should be minimal as the trimpot is very sensitive. After each adjustment, LPG should be turned up momentarily to listen at the envelope’s response to the incoming signal.





> I set the BBD/BIAS trim pot similar to the pot on a CE-2 or Caesar. Adjust for the least amount of distortion with chorusing.
> 
> The GATE trim pot is user preference, it controls the frequency of the low pass filter portion of the gat




I'll post some voltages tomorrow, is there a way i should set the knobs before i read voltages? 

Cheers


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## ElReverendoRyan (Jan 25, 2022)

spilla said:


> Ive been trying to dial in the low tide setup most of the afternoon. But im not getting any chorusing. I do notice a chorus effect when moving the depth pot back and forward but once its stopped moving i dont hear any chorus effect. My gate trim pot is low passing the audio and if i set it to low (CCW) it kills the audio. The BBD trimmer seems to have a sweet spot at 90% CW. But im not hearing any chorusing.
> 
> this comment leads to to suspect something isn't right:
> 
> ...


Hey did you ever sort this out? I have the same symptoms as you, effect when moving the depth back and forth but as soon as I stop it’s normal signal, lpg knob doesn’t seem to affect anything despite playing around with the trim


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## spilla (Jan 26, 2022)

No, but I have since built it again and had no issues second time around. I do plan to look over the pcb again though. Having a working one will make troubleshooting a little easier. I'll update this thread if I get it working.


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## WheatAndBarley (Jan 28, 2022)

Any luck? Having literally the same issue here, no modulation effect at all. Gate is working fine, and I've confirmed it's not the BBD since I have another fully functioning unit.

I did notice this board is a slightly different layout from my other working unit, dunno if that makes any difference.


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## Robert (Jan 28, 2022)

Can you swap the ATTINY randomizer IC from the working unit to see if that makes a difference?


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## WheatAndBarley (Jan 28, 2022)

Robert said:


> Can you swap the ATTINY randomizer IC from the working unit to see if that makes a difference?


Randomizer from the functioning build didn't affect the non-functioning build, randomizer from the non-functioning build works fine in the functioning build.


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## clarisso11 (Jan 29, 2022)

PantslessDan said:


> Any luck? Having literally the same issue here, no modulation effect at all. Gate is working fine, and I've confirmed it's not the BBD since I have another fully functioning unit.
> 
> I did notice this board is a slightly different layout from my other working unit, dunno if that makes any difference.


Having the same issue here as well! No chorus effect, but Gate seems to work, and chorus is only audible while turning the Depth knob.

Would someone be willing to post IC voltages of a working circuit? 

I have seen voltages on other posts, but never for a Low Tide that was working correctly. I think that would be really helpful for many people troubleshooting. Seeing what the voltages at the J201 and 2SK208 pinouts should be would also help to confirm that these are placed correctly.


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## music6000 (Jan 29, 2022)

PantslessDan said:


> Randomizer from the functioning build didn't affect the non-functioning build, randomizer from the non-functioning build works fine in the functioning build.


The first thing I look for is Resistor values, it's a common mistake when Members are working with similar values.
Example 47r, 4K7, 47K, 470K ...... 3K3, 33K, 330K

Here is what I use when Troubleshooting
Click on Bands for 5 colours:








						Resistor Calculator
					

Resistor Calculator is an App developed by CherryJourney to help the user find the value of a resistor.




					resistor.cherryjourney.pt


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## WheatAndBarley (Jan 30, 2022)

Here's what I got for voltages in my working unit vs the non-working unit:



https://imgur.com/2ahwP4l


There were really only minor differences between most of the values but I highlighted the main differences in red and the parts in the nonfunctioning unit are marked with NF in the header. In the functioning unit there's voltages that are fluctuating, but in the nonfunctioning unit those voltages are static and also a few volts off. For instance terminals 9, 10, 11, and 12 on the CD4046 aren't moving in the NF unit aren't moving and are very different. Also on the LM13700n terminals 6, 8, 11, and 13 are all moving a bit but in the NF unit they're static and about 2 volts higher than they should be. On my MN3207 terminals 7 and 8 are both around the voltages in the functioning unit, they're just not moving.


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## clarisso11 (Jan 31, 2022)

PantslessDan said:


> Here's what I got for voltages in my working unit vs the non-working unit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing these! I get strikingly similar bad voltages, at the same points (orange on the image). I also measured voltages at the MCP602 and they look wrong:


1 (VoutA):   0V5 (VinB+):   2.15V2 (VinA-):   0V6 (VinB-):   1.83V3 (VinA+):  random7 (VoutB):    5.04V4 (Vss):   0V8 (Vdd):    5.05V
With no fluctuating signal coming out of MCP602 pin 7, that explains the CD4046BE pin 9 voltage, and maybe the other voltages as well. I'm getting new MCP602 chips tomorrow, and will share the results.

View attachment 2ahwP4l.png


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## clarisso11 (Feb 1, 2022)

Tried out new MCP602 chips today, but no luck - voltages are unchanged.
Will report back if I eventually sort out the issue!


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## clarisso11 (Feb 1, 2022)

clarisso11 said:


> Tried out new MCP602 chips today, but no luck - voltages are unchanged.
> Will report back if I eventually sort out the issue


Working now! I took the PCB out of the enclosure to check solder joints, and suddenly it was working when checking with an audioprobe! I think the issue was a short at the back of the stereo potentiometer, I did have insulating tape there, but one of the solder joints must have poked through, and made contact with the potentiometer. I'm using a double-layer of tape now, that seems to have done the trick!


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## pi.cast (Feb 2, 2022)

Just finished a low tide and I'm getting the same problems of the OP (audio signal passing through when engaged but no modulation),
below are my voltages:


PIN\ICIC1 (LM78L05)IC2 (Randomizer)IC3(LM13700N)IC4(LM258)IC5(MCP602)IC6 (CD4046BE)IC7 (MN3207)18.954.791.281.82**2.2**00205.025.322.512.2**2.42.423554.732.491.7**2.451.71404.73002.454.752.18**5.871.72.205.0265.0201.72.20.6942.42755.871.72.6 **0.6941.83854.718.955.0201.9194.662.2**105.922.2**118.960.3125.923.22134.720144.725.02155.311.14161.2765.02

And my pedal:


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## zgrav (Feb 2, 2022)

Is your gate working?


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## clarisso11 (Feb 2, 2022)

pi.cast said:


> Just finished a low tide and I'm getting the same problems of the OP (audio signal passing through when engaged but no modulation),
> below are my voltages:
> 
> 
> ...


I think I read somewhere that you shouldn't have both dip switches engaged (on the right), not sure if that would affect modulation.
Have you tested the pedal outside the enclosure, how are you insulating the dual gang potentiometer from the PCB?


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## WheatAndBarley (Feb 2, 2022)

clarisso11 said:


> I think I read somewhere that you shouldn't have both dip switches engaged (on the right), not sure if that would affect modulation.
> Have you tested the pedal outside the enclosure, how are you insulating the dual gang potentiometer from the PCB?


From the manual they say for guitar it's Boost on (switch to the left) Pad off (switch to the right). It only affects the input gain and impedance if you get too much clipping or want to use it with something line level like a synth.


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## WheatAndBarley (Feb 2, 2022)

clarisso11 said:


> Working now! I took the PCB out of the enclosure to check solder joints, and suddenly it was working when checking with an audioprobe! I think the issue was a short at the back of the stereo potentiometer, I did have insulating tape there, but one of the solder joints must have poked through, and made contact with the potentiometer. I'm using a double-layer of tape now, that seems to have done the trick!


I will have to double check this and see. I don't believe I have any insulation on my functioning unit under the dual gang pot but it's certainly a possible issue.


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## Fishbonetabby (Feb 6, 2022)

It took me a few hours to configure the trim pots. I got pretty frustrated but stuck to it. I believe it was the gate pot that I cranked all the way up then dialed back eeeeever so slightly each time between testing it to get the pedal to work properly. Everywhere in between was either little to no effect or it sounsed bad. The other one I just dialed according to my preference. 

I'd suggest finding the manual for the orig Fairfield model so you can better understand the pots and how they relate to one another. This is a fantastic pedal it just not exactly plug and play. It took me a little time to understand how to use it.


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