# Parentheses - swapping order of boost and distortion circuits



## timc

Hello all!

This is my first post, about my first pedal build. I put together a Parentheses, which turned out great, and sounds gnarly as hell. (Pictures below.) I'm not using the boost function much, though. My amp (Marshal DSL15C) is very picky about things it likes pushing its front end, and this boost isn't one of them. So I was wondering: to get more use out of the Boost function, how about I add an ON/ON switch to reverse the order of the circuits within the Parentheses?

*Mode 1: octave > distortion > boost *
this is the stock setup for a Parentheses

*Mode 2: octave > boost > distortion*
this way, I can add extra gain to the Rat circuit, for additional doominess

I'd like to know if I can use a 3PDT switch to accomplish this swap, including with PedalPCB's 3PDT Order Switch unit. Screenshot of that PCB here:



I'm working on figuring out where within the Parentheses circuit I could connect this switching system. I'll call the different connections IN, SEND1, RETURN1, SEND2,  RETURN2, and OUT. This is what I'm thinking, based on the Parentheses schematic (link here):

Disconnect the output (middle) lug of the Octave potentiometer; add a wire connecting that lug to IN
In the through-hole left over where that lug was, add a wire to SEND1
Connect RETURN1 to the output lug of the AMPLITUDE potentiometer (which, I think, is the end of the Rat distortion circuit)
Connect SEND2 to the hole where that lug used to be
Connect RETURN2 to the output lug of the BOOST potentiometer
Connect OUT to the through hole where that lug used to be.
Does that make sense? Would that get me the effect I'm looking for?

Thank you so much!

Tim

Below, for your enjoyment/critique, is my first-ever pedal build. I had a blast doing this and look forward to doing more pedals in the future:


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## timc

Update for anyone who happens to be following. My aforementioned plan was overly complicated. I busted out my DMM, figured out what was going on inside parts of the PCB, and figured out something much simpler. I just need to connect the 3PDT Order Switch to the Parentheses switches. It was a bit mind-bending since the signal flow is Octave > Distortion > Boost, but the way the switches work, if the distortion is off it bypasses everything. Took a bit to figure out why and how that was. Anyway, here's my new wiring plan:



I think it makes sense. So, if I'm right, i can either run either *Octave > Distortion > Boost *(stock) or *Octave > Boost > Distortion *(extra sludge mode).  I'll add a follow-up report after I try it. 

Tim


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## wrentema

Curious to see how this works out since I'm building one too. Maybe you can do some recordings too and share them to hear the result..


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## timc

wrentema said:


> Curious to see how this works out since I'm building one too. Maybe you can do some recordings too and share them to hear the result..


Will do! Once my next shipment arrives from Small Bear I can try it out.


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## knucklehead

timc said:


> *Octave > Boost > Distortion *(extra sludge mode)


This is my target - in the midst of a Mini build right now as it may be as much as I need. But if it ISN'T . . . . a full size Parenthesis is next for me, and your signal flow above sounds ideal.


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## timc

knucklehead said:


> This is my target - in the midst of a Mini build right now as it may be as much as I need. But if it ISN'T . . . . a full size Parenthesis is next for me, and your signal flow above sounds ideal.


Good luck with the build! I’ll likely do a mini at some point, and combine it in the same enclosure with a Coda Black Hole (Sunn Model T preamp clone) for full-on doom apocalypse sounds. I just looked over the mini parentheses schematic and it might be possible to do the boost-distortion order flip there too. I’m just a beginner at this stuff but it looks doable based on my limited knowledge. You just need to figure out where the beginning and end of those two circuits (the distortion circuit and the boost circuit) are and then where those points correspond to the PCB, and then attach the switch at those points. I’m excited to try it on my full-size Parentheses!


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## knucklehead

timc said:


> Good luck with the build!


Thanks - this is my first build, and doom/drone was my target. The Parenthesis just came available again and I came by double the components I needed for the Mini - so on the main I have most of what I need to do a second pedal.

I was hoping for a one-and-done as I build basses and speakers - I can ill-afford a lot of time devoted to what I can see being a VERY worthwhile diversion.

Do report back - I am ALWAYS willing to mod completed projects, but if I can wire it in on the build, all the better.


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## timc

knucklehead said:


> Thanks - this is my first build, and doom/drone was my target. The Parenthesis just came available again and I came by double the components I needed for the Mini - so on the main I have most of what I need to do a second pedal.
> 
> I was hoping for a one-and-done as I build basses and speakers - I can ill-afford a lot of time devoted to what I can see being a VERY worthwhile diversion.
> 
> Do report back - I am ALWAYS willing to mod completed projects, but if I can wire it in on the build, all the better.


Yup, I know that feeling. I’m a PhD student and should probably be spending all this time prepping for my preliminary exam. But the pedals are always calling to me...

Are your basses/speakers also doom/drone related? I’m also fascinated by luthiery. My favorite YouTube channel is Crimson Custom Guitars. Someday when I have a bit more space for a workshop I’ll try my hand at building guitars/basses too. But for now, pedals will have to suffice.


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## knucklehead

timc said:


> Yup, I know that feeling. I’m a PhD student and should probably be spending all this time prepping for my preliminary exam. But the pedals are always calling to me...
> 
> Are your basses/speakers also doom/drone related? I’m also fascinated by luthiery. My favorite YouTube channel is Crimson Custom Guitars. Someday when I have a bit more space for a workshop I’ll try my hand at building guitars/basses too. But for now, pedals will have to suffice.


My strings and instruments and cabinets are designed specifically to go really REALLY low - I deep dove into doom and drone to do a music bed for video intro/outro as its where I feel like most of my stuff 'shines'

Anyone who plays an instrument should build at least one - even if it's a kit. No full shop required. Pretty much just a drill, screw drivers, allen wrenches and pliers. Oh . . and a soldering iron too I suppose.


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## timc

The mod is complete, and (more or less) works! Here's how it looked after wiring in the order-switching mod, including the PedalPCB order switching breakout PCB:



So, in that image above, you can see the switching breakout PCB on the top right near the output jack. Just to the left of that, you can see an additional 3pdt, to which I next added a switchable high-pass filter at 70Hz. Note that the resistor of the high-pass circuit is sharing the ground with one of the clipping diodes, which was the nearest, easiest access to ground I could find.





This setup lets me have a few different options:

Stock Parentheses wiring (Octave > Distortion > Boost)
Extra gain (Octave > Boost > Distortion)
Extra gain, extra tight (Octave > Boost (with a high pass at 70Hz after it) > Distortion
Which works well. It adds a ton of saturation to the Rat circuit, and when I flip on the high pass filter it adds some more clarity and note definition, if I want it.

*The one possible downside: *
When I'm running the boost into the distortion, the octave gets screwy. When the boost and octave are both dimed, the pedal gets some droning self-oscillation going on. It also gets some weird glitchy dying-battery effects too. *I wouldn't suggest this mod for the Parentheses Mini, which doesn't let you switch the octave circuit off.* It is fun to play around with glitchy, saggy fuzz tones, and the boost into the distortion by itself sounds great. I suspect there's a way to make this work without the glitchiness, but I lack the electronics knowledge to get that done.

Oh, and I switched the LED to blue ones, which I think looks cooler:





That's about it. This was a fun mod, and I learned a lot about how circuits (especially switches) work while figuring out how to do this.


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## knucklehead

Awesome - how hard would it be to hard wire the Octave > Boost > Distortion into an existing Parenthesis? I just got my new board yesterday, and already thinking big . . . .

Do you lose the octave effect when the boost and distortion are dimed?


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## timc

knucklehead said:


> Awesome - how hard would it be to hard wire the Octave > Boost > Distortion into an existing Parenthesis? I just got my new board yesterday, and already thinking big . . . .
> 
> Do you lose the octave effect when the boost and distortion are dimed?


It was pretty easy to modify an existing Parentheses. That’s what I did. If you look at the wiring diagram I put together in my second post above, you can see that it just requires removing three wires (which connect the switches to the PCB) and then adding new connections to your order-swapping switch. (You can actually accomplish this with just a 3pdt by itself, too, without the special PCB—just takes a bit more wiring.) It’s relatively easy to heat up the through holes and pull the wires out, but then you’ll want a solder sucker to clean up the hole before installing the new wire. 

Regarding your second question, when you’re running boost>distortion and the octave and boost are both dimed, no, the octave doesn’t disappear. But the whole sound gets splatty and gated sounding.


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## knucklehead

Okay . . . to my naive, inexperienced mind if I rewired the jacks in this manner on a Mini would I achieve *Boost > Distortion* - or just screw the whole pedal up?





The top image is the original wiring diagram - the lower is my ill-enlightened notion. Might I need to swap the purple lead as well to get I/O correct?


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## twebb6778

I actually think this would work - the boost is an entirely separate circuit.

However, I think you'll need to swap these:


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## knucklehead

twebb6778 said:


> The boost and I actually think this would work - the boost is an entirely separate circuit.
> 
> However, I think you'll need to swap these:
> 
> View attachment 9655





Like this?


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## twebb6778

Like this - excuse the poor illustration haha


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## knucklehead

Right . . . saw the error of my ways, and you beat me to the post.




Think this will result in similar Octave disfunction?


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## twebb6778

It's definitely a possibility, but worth giving a shot!

Seems like a pretty easy and reversible mod, so if the octave isn't playing nice you can always change it back to stock. Otherwise you could add in a switch to bypass the octave just like the full size version


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## knucklehead

twebb6778 said:


> It's definitely a possibility, but worth giving a shot!
> 
> Seems like a pretty easy and reversible mod, so if the octave isn't playing nice you can always change it back to stock. Otherwise you could add in a switch to bypass the octave just like the full size version


I didn't follow the traces, but it seems like the Mini has the jumpered switch option in the Parenthesis build doc. 

Leave it to me to mod something I've never built one of, ever . . . . .

o.0


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## timc

knucklehead said:


> Right . . . saw the error of my ways, and you beat me to the post.
> View attachment 9658
> 
> Think this will result in similar Octave disfunction?



This looks exactly right! I'm not sure if your Octave will get wonky or not. Like twebb6778 said, it's easily reversible, so why not give it a shot? Let us know if it works. I'm also going to pick up a Parentheses Mini when they come back in stock, so I'll consider this on that build, especially if you get good results.


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## timc

knucklehead said:


> I didn't follow the traces, but it seems like the Mini has the jumpered switch option in the Parenthesis build doc.
> 
> Leave it to me to mod something I've never built one of, ever . . . . .
> 
> o.0



Something did just occur to me. If you wire it up this way, what you're getting will actually be this: 
*Boost > Octave > Distortion*
Since the Distortion and Octave are basically one circuit, activated by the same switch. From my tests running a boost before the whole pedal the Octave circuit gets pretty gnarly sounding if it has a really high-amplitude signal put into it. (Maybe not in a good way? Depends on your taste.) So another option would be something like this, if what you really want is *Octave > Boost > Distortion*: 




Basically you'd find the Octave pot, and bend the middle (output) lug up, then solder a lead from that going to the switch used to control the boost. The other two legs of the pot would be soldered into the through holes as usual. Then when you install C5 (the capacitor right after the Octave Pot), just put the leg that's connected to R6 and R20 into the correct through hole. (You can use a DMM to see which of the through holes is connected to those.) The other leg, bend it upwards, and connect that to the output of the boost with an extra wire. Sorry this image is a bit blurry, wasn't sure how to include something from a PDF.

This is closer to what I did in my mod. I have no idea if it would work or not--I'm guessing you'll have the same type of self-oscillation that I did.


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## knucklehead

timc said:


> Something did just occur to me. If you wire it up this way, what you're getting will actually be this:
> *Boost > Octave > Distortion*
> Since the Distortion and Octave are basically one circuit, activated by the same switch. From my tests running a boost before the whole pedal the Octave circuit gets pretty gnarly sounding if it has a really high-amplitude signal put into it. (Maybe not in a good way? Depends on your taste.) So another option would be something like this, if what you really want is *Octave > Boost > Distortion*:
> View attachment 9661
> 
> Basically you'd find the Octave pot, and bend the middle (output) lug up, then solder a lead from that going to the switch used to control the boost. The other two legs of the pot would be soldered into the through holes as usual. Then when you install C5 (the capacitor right after the Octave Pot), just put the leg that's connected to R6 and R20 into the correct through hole. (You can use a DMM to see which of the through holes is connected to those.) The other leg, bend it upwards, and connect that to the output of the boost with an extra wire. Sorry this image is a bit blurry, wasn't sure how to include something from a PDF.
> 
> This is closer to what I did in my mod. I have no idea if it would work or not--I'm guessing you'll have the same type of self-oscillation that I did.


Thanks for the leg work - if I get the same wonky behavior out of the Octave I'll give this a go. I am using an octagonal Hammond enclosure and modified pot placement so access to the center lug is possible once it's assembled - accessing C5, however . . . . .

o.0


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## twebb6778

Good luck!

Let us know how you go, I feel like boost into distortion would make it way more interesting.


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## timc

So I tried to make a video of myself talking through the different sounds, and can't figure out how to sync audio and video without weird stuff happening. If you're interested, here's audio only of my explanation of the different sounds with samples of a bit of the glitchiness and the self-oscillation, in addition to some other delightfully doomy sounds from this pedal. I actually couldn't get it to make the glitchiest weirdest sounds so apparently those are intermittent. Sorry for the lack of video, but who really wants to see my dumb face? 
Signal chain: Gibson SG > Modded Parentheses > Marshall DSL15 Combo > Torpedo Captor > Wall of Sound Cab Sim

Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nTefRJHlq-3qKrOBxFDuc1WGnHqqToDu/view?usp=sharing


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## timc

Here's a clip of the glitchier sounds you get if you run Octave > Boost > Distortion. Notice the weird gating effect.





						2021-02-08 Parentheses Mod Glitchy Sounds.wav
					






					drive.google.com


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## knucklehead

hhmmm . . . okay, glitchy is none too pleasant. I'll report back if the Mini does something similar.

I REALLY like the *Boost > Distortion* fwiw . . . A LOT


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## knucklehead

upon further FURTHER review . . . .

If I went from the input jack to the distortion circuit as in the recommended wiring, come out of the center lug on the Octave pot to the Boost foot switch in, then from the Boost foot switch out to the center lug return on the PCB I ought to accomplish *Octave > Boost > Distortion* - yes?

I'd then just need to go from the distortion foot switch out to the output jack to get my signal out. Methinks the only thing I'd forsake is Boost-only functionality.

It makes sense to me why the Octave circuit would be misbehaving - if Boost feeds Distortion the octave circuit is getting at least twice the signal it's designed for. Assuming I am reading the schematic correctly.

o.0


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## Wizardofwoz66

timc said:


> Yup, I know that feeling. I’m a PhD student and should probably be spending all this time prepping for my preliminary exam. But the pedals are always calling to me...
> 
> Are your basses/speakers also doom/drone related? I’m also fascinated by luthiery. My favorite YouTube channel is Crimson Custom Guitars. Someday when I have a bit more space for a workshop I’ll try my hand at building guitars/basses too. But for now, pedals will have to suffice.


What're you doing your PhD in? I finished mine (chemistry) two years ago, did a post doc until covid brought everything to a grinding halt and I discovered pedal building lol, I'm very glad I didn't start until I was done grad school or I never would've gotten anything done


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## timc

knucklehead said:


> upon further FURTHER review . . . .
> 
> If I went from the input jack to the distortion circuit as in the recommended wiring, come out of the center lug on the Octave pot to the Boost foot switch in, then from the Boost foot switch out to the center lug return on the PCB I ought to accomplish *Octave > Boost > Distortion* - yes?
> 
> I'd then just need to go from the distortion foot switch out to the output jack to get my signal out. Methinks the only thing I'd forsake is Boost-only functionality.
> 
> It makes sense to me why the Octave circuit would be misbehaving - if Boost feeds Distortion the octave circuit is getting at least twice the signal it's designed for. Assuming I am reading the schematic correctly.
> 
> o.0


Hmm, I'm not quite following you--what do you mean by "the center lug return on the PCB"? Regarding your second point--that the Boost is misbehaving because it's receiving twice the signal it's designed for--I'm not sure that's the problem. Even when I turn the boost down below unity gain (so a rather quiet signal), it still gets glitchy, I think.



Wizardofwoz66 said:


> What're you doing your PhD in? I finished mine (chemistry) two years ago, did a post doc until covid brought everything to a grinding halt and I discovered pedal building lol, I'm very glad I didn't start until I was done grad school or I never would've gotten anything done


My program is in Second Language Acquisition, which is the linguistics focusing on how people learn a new language. Haha, I probably should not have started pedal building at this point in my life. I also have an 11-month-old, which is not conducive to my productivity. Sorry to hear covid interrupted your work--are you on furlough or something? Pedal building's actually been really great as a way to unwind and destress from grad school/parenting. There's something kind of zen about populating and soldering up a PCB that's calming but also cognitively demanding enough that you can't really worry about anything else while you're doing it.


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## Wizardofwoz66

timc said:


> Hmm, I'm not quite following you--what do you mean by "the center lug return on the PCB"? Regarding your second point--that the Boost is misbehaving because it's receiving twice the signal it's designed for--I'm not sure that's the problem. Even when I turn the boost down below unity gain (so a rather quiet signal), it still gets glitchy, I think.
> 
> 
> My program is in Second Language Acquisition, which is the linguistics focusing on how people learn a new language. Haha, I probably should not have started pedal building at this point in my life. I also have an 11-month-old, which is not conducive to my productivity. Sorry to hear covid interrupted your work--are you on furlough or something? Pedal building's actually been really great as a way to unwind and destress from grad school/parenting. There's something kind of zen about populating and soldering up a PCB that's calming but also cognitively demanding enough that you can't really worry about anything else while you're doing it.


No, I was very fortunate that I was able to stay in my post doc until I found a job in industry, I'm very thankful for that. 

Doing grad school with a baby seems VERY challenging, good on you for doing it! I'm glad you're finding solace in pedal building, it's definitely a nice, usually not stressful, hobby lol


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