# Tantalum vs Electrolytic?



## MichaelW (May 3, 2022)

Hey all, 

I have the Lone King Overdrive in my queue and it calls for 2x 220n Tantalum caps. 

I've found online pics for the original and Tantalums are used but I don't see a schematic and not really sure what these caps do in the circuit.

Is there a strong reason to use Tantalums instead of electrolytic? 

TIA!


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## Cybercow (May 3, 2022)

Tantalums are typically used where space is a primary consideration. They do the same job as standard electrolytic caps, but are much smaller. They also make more noise when they are improperly oriented at fire-up time.


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## Betty Wont (May 3, 2022)

You won't notice a difference in sound with regular electros in those spots. A few circuits use tantalums in select spots for proper performance, but this, being a stripped down TS, you will be fine.


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## MichaelW (May 3, 2022)

Awesome, looks like there's plenty of room for 5mm Electrolytic. I think I'm just gonna go with those.


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## phi1 (May 3, 2022)

Check this out. He says film is fine for the 220n









						King Tone The Soloist
					

Requested quite a few times. Clémtent  got hold of one for a repair and while he was at it he traced it and drew a schematic. He even built...




					dirtboxlayouts.blogspot.com


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## Feral Feline (May 3, 2022)

@MichaelW — some people assert that Tantalums sound better than Electrolytics when in the signal path.
There is at least one forumite (I forget who) who doesn't like Tants in the signal path, as (IIRC, and in my own words) the Tants put a blanket over the high end.

I haven't noticed any loss of highs, for example I used a 4u7 tant in the signal path of my Filigree Siberian Hamster (Rat) — but I haven't sat down and done a listening-test/shootout between Tants and Electros.

It would be interesting to set up a Muroidea (PPCB's Rat) with a switch on C7 (in the Muroidea schematic) to test the theory out.

Also heard that Tants smell bad after they go bang, I've yet to invade my olfactory with the release of their magic smoke.


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## phi1 (May 3, 2022)

More important, in my opinion, is when an E cap is the last cap before circuit output, it can tend to cause switching pop sound, since a lot of cheap E caps leak some DC. I’ve had this happed to me several times with E caps in that spot. I always try to use film or MLCC in that spot to avoid pop. That is not the location of either of these 220n caps.


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## MichaelW (May 3, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> @MichaelW — some people assert that Tantalums sound better than Electrolytics when in the signal path.
> There is at least one forumite (I forget who) who doesn't like Tants in the signal path, as (IIRC, and in my own words) the Tants put a blanket over the high end.
> 
> I haven't noticed any loss of highs, for example I used a 4u7 tant in the signal path of my Filigree Siberian Hamster (Rat) — but I haven't sat down and done a listening-test/shootout between Tants and Electros.
> ...


Ok that's a pretty good reason to avoid tantalum....the "fart factor"

I honestly don't know enough about tantalum or why they are used in some circuits and not in others. I just didn't want to order 2 caps from Mouser......heh.


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## MichaelW (May 3, 2022)

phi1 said:


> Check this out. He says film is fine for the 220n
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome thank you! I guess I'll use film caps in that case.


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## Feral Feline (May 3, 2022)

BTW, I've only used my Sib Hamster on *bass*, never tried it with guitar. Something I should do.
Also, I've got some 2u2 box-film caps — I used to think box film maxed out at 1uF. For bass-ment pedals, having 2u2 Box Film is a boon. I would've used two x 2u2 in the Hamster if it weren't a 1590A build.


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## andare (May 4, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> BTW, I've only used my Sib Hamster on *bass*, never tried it with guitar. Something I should do.
> Also, I've got some 2u2 box-film caps — I used to think box film maxed out at 1uF. For bass-ment pedals, having 2u2 Box Film is a boon. I would've used two x 2u2 in the Hamster if it weren't a 1590A build.


Speaking of bass pedals. I modded a Dunlop JDF2 Ge FF with a Bias control and I get wonderful gated farts from it. Add an octave and you're in Bad Mama Jama territory.


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## Elijah-Baley (May 4, 2022)

I never used tantalum caps because I always read about ti that are not so goo for audio, I used only electrolytic, even for value like 0.47uF-2.2uF, if the layout or the schematic indicates it.
Of course, if I want to do better things I use film caps until the 2.2uF, if I need higher value I use electrolytic with audio specification.
I build very often on veroboard, and sometime I need save room in 1590A box, and I thought to use tantalum, but I never do it.


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## Feral Feline (May 4, 2022)

The Plot thickens. ☝️

So @Elijah-Baley — you've read one thing, I've heard another... time we both stick some Tants and Electros on switches and decide for _ourselves_ which sounds better, if there's any discernible difference at all.

This is my challenge to you.

Got any builds coming up with big caps? Alas, I do not have anything in the queue for the near future. I might breadboard a Rat, to see, as I do have that build coming in the distant future (whenever the PCB arrives).

BTW — Where have you read that Tants don't sound good?


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## DAJE (May 4, 2022)

I think that "tantalum caps sound bad" is internet wisdom, ie something made up that keeps getting repeated by people who wish to appear to know more than they do.

I've been using tantalum caps instead of electrolytics for values between 1uF and 10 uF, and - if anything - I think they're a little _less_ prone to noise. I have some electros to use up, but I'll be moving to tantalums in future wherever possible.


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## Betty Wont (May 4, 2022)

I love it when my empirical advice is countered by someone who read something somewhere. Perpetuated myths stop here.


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## Harry Klippton (May 4, 2022)

Betty Wont said:


> I love it when my empirical advice is countered by someone who read something somewhere. Perpetuated myths stop here.


This pic goes hard. Feel free to screenshot


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## jeffwhitfield (May 4, 2022)

Yeah, I've read about how tantalums don't sound as good as electrolytics...but in my experience I have yet to hear any real difference. I use them for two main reasons: 

1) They're usually smaller and easier to fit in tight areas.
2) They have the potential of lasting longer than an equivalent electrolytic.

Tantalums were usually avoided before primary due to the cost. They used to cost nearly twice as much as electrolytics. These days though you can find tantalums at a more reasonable cost. Tayda sells many at a good cost. I usually like to go with tantalums for larger uF values. However, there are times when an electrolytic is required...like in really large values.


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## Bio77 (May 4, 2022)

Tantalums usually have better tolerances in my experience, it might sound better to have 10% of spec tantalum vs a 20% electro depending on your stash and what is going on in the circuit.  

I have also been advised by a pedal guru to use one as a filtering cap on a COSMOS chip, which leads me to assume that there are some performance differences that I don't yet understand.  Like most things in pedal land, it probably not a big deal.


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## jeffwhitfield (May 4, 2022)

Bio77 said:


> Tantalums usually have better tolerances in my experience, it might sound better to have 10% of spec tantalum vs a 20% electro depending on your stash and what is going on in the circuit.
> 
> I have also been advised by a pedal guru to use one as a filtering cap on a COSMOS chip, which leads me to assume that there are some performance differences that I don't yet understand.  Like most things in pedal land, it probably not a big deal.


That's the other benefit of tantalums: better tolerances. Depending on the circuit, that 10% difference can be heard. 

I believe many pedal companies that rely on SMD components are turning to more tantalum based caps for their pedals, which are available in a wide variety of values and voltages and take up a lot less space than electrolytic equivalents. This is probably the number one reason why so many pedals are shrinking in size.


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## cooder (May 4, 2022)

I do think we need a definitive word or two on this from @Chuck D. Bones ...
One difference to consider is also as far as I'm told (by Chuck...) is that Tanatlums have a better long term relibility and less leakage which can be crucial in some parts of design.


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## eh là bas ma (May 4, 2022)

I guess here is the main problem with tantalum :









						Coltan mining and ethics - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




I think many people avoid it for this reason, it's one of the three main conflict-minerals.



			https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2018/04/19/conflict-free/


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## fig (May 4, 2022)

justin said:


> I guess here is the main problem with tantalum :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Indeed. There are some more "responsible" companies.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...s-Guarantee-Conflict-Free-Tantalum-Capacitors


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## peccary (May 4, 2022)

AVX tant caps are sold by Tayda, if anyone was wondering where to get them.


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## eh là bas ma (May 4, 2022)

fig said:


> There are some more "responsible" companies.


From what I can understand from the Wahington Post's article, it's probably just for show, unfortunatly : " tracing minerals has been fraught with problems"

"However, the effects of conflict-free mining laws on the ground in chaotic and underdeveloped eastern Congo is another story. Since Dodd-Frank, militias in eastern Congo have only proliferated. Miners are still working in pitiful conditions with little investment into tools and infrastructure. Much evidence points to the reality that minerals coming from mines controlled by militias are still making their way into the global market."

"it left the market scrambling for a solution that facilitated more investment into fulfilling legal duties, and appealing to consumers in the process, rather than improving life in eastern Congo. Tracing minerals from validated mines has been a Band-Aid solution for more intractable problems"

Hence the title : an ugly truth behind "ethical consumerism"


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## fig (May 4, 2022)

justin said:


> Hence the title : an ugly truth behind "ethical consumerism"


Word. From one of my favorite albums...


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## Harry Klippton (May 4, 2022)

fig said:


> Word. From one of my favorite albums...


On the threshold of a dream for me


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## Nostradoomus (May 4, 2022)

I’m gonna hold back because this isn’t the place for socio-political/ethical discourse.


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## Elijah-Baley (May 5, 2022)

I don't know where I got the information "tantalum caps are bad for audio application", but I think I got it more than once, in several forums maybe, often where people asked right this question.
I avoid it because the cost, but even because several guys advised against it, maybe somewhere, I asked about it because the size of tantalum could be perfect to use in tiny board for 1590A, but I never bought it, I think I always found negative feedback about tantalum in audio application.

Unfortunately, I just made a big order to Tayda, so don't ask to me to buy tantalum just to try it. I can't to compare tantalum and electrolytic caps now, but the topic is very interesting.


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