# Elk / Super Fuzz Sustainar (Big Muff)



## almondcity (Sep 7, 2021)

I want to discuss this pedal.  The Kit Rae site says this is basically a triangle with the HP tone cap changed from 4nF to 330 pF


			Big Muff Pi Versions and Schematics
		


When I've tried this (I had a Ram's Head to socket this in but still), it sounded absolutely awful.  There is a video somewhere of Wren and Cuff stating that due to the cheapness of the parts, they've ended up drifting over the years and that's what makes them special.  I can't find anywhere else on the internet that would suggest values to start changing.  Any thoughts?  This cap change has the effect of shifting the HP filter up REALLY high, so maybe you would also need to shift the LP filter higher to get a little bit more frequencies?

I think this one sounds very interesting:


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## mdc (Sep 7, 2021)

My understanding is that these have one "good" setting, aka the Boris setting w/ the tone full CCW. I found this to be true when I built a version on vero. You suddenly get a huge fuzz with a substantial volume boost, and it sounds fantastic.


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## benny_profane (Sep 7, 2021)

W&C are certainly in the running for the most buzzwords used in pedal copy. Their big muff comparison chart directly contradicts their copy in various places, though, so who knows what they’re talking about.


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## almondcity (Sep 7, 2021)

I'm trying to understand what is technically happening here. Like I've seen it written that you get some high end treble in the bassier settings but I don't think that is actually what's happening. At least it's no different than a regular muff tone control, you're just blending the HP and LP filters


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## Feral Feline (Sep 8, 2021)

Wren & Cuff should've said "that's what makes [*some of*] them special".

Since no two Muffs sound alike when new off the same assembly line (parts tolerence variations) and no two Muffs' parts will drift at the same rate over time, when I finally build any I won't concern myself with staying "true" to whatever Muff variant schematic. I'll just be using the schematic as a starting point and tune to taste.


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## mdc (Sep 8, 2021)

Big Muff:






Elk:






Red is full CW, green is 12:00, black is full CCW.


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## almondcity (Sep 8, 2021)

Thanks, that's what I've been saying, the graphs don't show that "you get more treble at the bass settings"


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## mdc (Sep 8, 2021)

I think it's sort of relative—there's a pronounced mid scoop throughout almost the entire lower half of the tone knobs range on the elk that isn't there on the traditional BMP. The absence of upper mids is going to make the high end stand out.

Elk @ 50%, 25%, full CCW:





BMP at @50%, 25%, full CCW:


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## almondcity (Sep 8, 2021)

good point


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## Mir9 (Sep 17, 2021)

I converted an unused Muff build to the ELK specs on Kit Rae's site not too long ago.  I thought I built it wrong since I also read about the bass side having a lot of highs.

    It wasn't until I reversed the tone pot that I got it to sound (close enough for me, at least) like the video on the first post and others.  Maybe some of the early triangle Muffs it was trying to copy also had reversed tone controls?  

    Of course with a linear pot I didn't really change anything, but before I did that the settings sounded really off!


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