# Tube Depot "Bud" Amp



## Fingolfen (Dec 5, 2022)

Looking to build a fun little tube practice amp - has anyone build one of the Tube Depot "Bud" amps? Any alternate recommendations?


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## iamjackslackof (Dec 5, 2022)

I've been looking at the same thing lately. The MOD 102/102+ is another option I've seen for pretty cheap and with good build docs. TubeDepot also has some more expensive kits beyond the Bud with good docs.


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

Fender champ, the 1948 version with a 8" speaker.  The one Eric Clapton used to get famous with!  Personally feel a single 6v6 tube produces tones I like more than an EL84.  I build my own circuit boards using eyelets and/or turrets with G10 epoxy board, it's pretty easy to roll your own amp kit.












						Indispensable. Undeniable. The Legacy of the Champ
					

How the small but mighty Champ has reigned supreme for nearly 70 years.



					www.fender.com


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## owlexifry (Dec 5, 2022)

RetiredUnit1 said:


> Fender champ, the 1948 version with a 8" speaker.  The one Eric Clapton used to get famous with!  Personally feel a single 6v6 tube produces tones I like more than an EL84.  I build my own circuit boards using eyelets and/or turrets with G10 epoxy board, it's pretty easy to roll your own amp kit.
> 
> View attachment 37330
> 
> ...


+1 agree

although i often hear that a 5F1 chassis is a bit small/tricky to work with, vs. the 5E3 (despite the x4 inputs) that may be an ‘easier’ option as there’s more room in a 5E3 chassis to work with.


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## swyse (Dec 5, 2022)

I have a 5C1 champ head I built point to point and it was dead simple to build overall. I use it into a 4x12 and it's as loud as I'd ever want in a bedroom, but I bet a smaller speaker set up would make it a good practice set up. Also, I think the 5f1 is a better option, plenty of kits and and resources, I just liked the idea of an interesting preamp tube (6SJ7) more than a 12ax7 at the time I built it.


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

swyse said:


> I have a 5C1 champ head I built point to point and it was dead simple to build overall. I use it into a 4x12 and it's as loud as I'd ever want in a bedroom, but I bet a smaller speaker set up would make it a good practice set up. Also, I think the 5f1 is a better option, plenty of kits and and resources, I just liked the idea of an interesting preamp tube (6SJ7) more than a 12ax7 at the time I built it.


Right, loudness is all about moving air.  The more surface area in your speaker(s) the more energy is converted into sound waves.  One inefficient 8" speaker can be pushed at HIGH volume and produce beautiful distortion on demand with picking pressure instead of 4x12 having to be played at lower levels to keep the neighbors happy.

So an inefficient ferric magnet 8" instead of ceramic or alnico to produce those early rock sounds at lower volume.


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

owlexifry said:


> +1 agree
> 
> although i often hear that a 5F1 chassis is a bit small/tricky to work with, vs. the 5E3 (despite the x4 inputs) that may be an ‘easier’ option as there’s more room in a 5E3 chassis to work with.


Ship in a bottle.  The hardest part of building a 5e3 is the lack of space.  There are much fewer connections to make in a champ, and there's more space between components, and therefore a bit easier.

I've built over 30 5e3's, I know that.  I sort of lost count at how many over 30 tho, and it was a VERY long time ago.  One of the ones I kept for myself has original Yellow astron capacitors.  Fantastic tones.....


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## iamjackslackof (Dec 5, 2022)

@RetiredUnit1 Do you know of any more hold your hand/pant by numbers guides to building a Champ? The main draw for me with a kit is the instructions, at least until I've built a few and know what I'm doing. That's exactly how I started out with pedals. The high voltage factor makes me want to have some hand holding initially for sure. Sourcing parts, soldering, drilling, etc is easy at this point, I just need some good instructions.


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## iamjackslackof (Dec 5, 2022)

After some quick Googling, looks like Champ parts kits are everywhere. I wonder if I could get one and use the really comprehensive Mojo Tone build docs?


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## Feral Feline (Dec 5, 2022)

You can, but...

Not all Champ parts-kits, as simple as the circuit is, are good.


My first build was a 5F2-A Tweed Princeton (Champ with a tone-control), second was a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe.

The first build wasn't even my amp, it was my Amp-Sifu's customer's aborted project. It came with a chassis that was mirrored to what it should be, ie backwards and many other problems such as a defunct brand-new transformer, stuff that didn't fit right... Made for A LOT of problems/headaches with that first build. Still, it steeled me for my next build.

For the 5E3, I sourced all my own parts instead of getting a kit, but I did use the MojoTone build-doc as a (loose) guide.


I really like @HamishR 's amp builds, perhaps the voice of experience will weigh in here.


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## aefpv (Dec 5, 2022)

Weber amps is another source for a kit. They have a good reputation. Mojotone is another good option, but more expensive.


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

iamjackslackof said:


> @RetiredUnit1 Do you know of any more hold your hand/pant by numbers guides to building a Champ? The main draw for me with a kit is the instructions, at least until I've built a few and know what I'm doing. That's exactly how I started out with pedals. The high voltage factor makes me want to have some hand holding initially for sure. Sourcing parts, soldering, drilling, etc is easy at this point, I just need some good instructions.


The champ has more incarnations than just about any amp.  I just got up, no coffee yet, after I'm awake I'll see if any of my sources have anything.  But the high voltage part doesn't come into play until you're ready to flip it on, and if it doesn't work.  Going now, coffee calls me!


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

iamjackslackof said:


> @RetiredUnit1 Do you know of any more hold your hand/pant by numbers guides to building a Champ? The main draw for me with a kit is the instructions, at least until I've built a few and know what I'm doing. That's exactly how I started out with pedals. The high voltage factor makes me want to have some hand holding initially for sure. Sourcing parts, soldering, drilling, etc is easy at this point, I just need some good instructions.


Mojotone has the instructions at the link below.  This would work irregardless of where you buy the kit, but they have *really good* reproduction cabs.  Alternately, the parts are available from a multitude of sources, and "sorrycharley" cabs on eBay are unfinished pine cabs so you can stain/paint/oil/varnish as you see fit.

Got my superhot cup of folgers now, best part of waking up is Folgers in your cup!!!!!  I drink it out of a 20oz starbucks mug tho, lol....

The Manual:


			https://www.mojotone.com/Amp_Kits/Tweed/Champ_5F1_Manual.pdf
		


The Kit:








						Tweed Champ® 5F1 Style Amplifier Kit
					

Kit Build Difficulty:EasyDifficultIf this kit shows as out of stock please check here for more information.Please read our article 'Mojotone Amp Kit Building Primer' along with our amp kit disclaimer located in the Specs tab before buying this kit. Mojotone’s Tweed Champ Style Amp Kit is based...




					www.mojotone.com
				




I'll check out a few more places later to see if I can find anything.   Weber has a "only buy what you want" layout so you can source your own tubes or whatever, but unless they've changed they don't offer any instructions






						5F1 Amp Kit – Weber Speakers
					






					www.tedweber.com


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

oops forgot the link to sorrycharley, aka 'rawcabs'









						Pine guitar speaker cabinet builder | eBay Stores
					

Unfinished pine dovetail joint guitar amplifier speaker and combo cabinets . If I don't have it please contact me and let me know what you are looking for  . To request a custom fabrication , please provide complete specs and photos of what you want me to fabricate



					www.ebay.com
				




he has a LOT of other champ cabs, the vibro champ, the super champ, but this is the 8" original champ size








						rawcabs narrow panel Champ 5f1 pine 1x 8 combo cabinet   | eBay
					

6-1/2" x 2-7/16" chassis cut out.  Will fit a 5f1 chassis.  I take a lot of pride in every cabinet I build as you will see when you receive the cabinet.  The front speaker baffle is 3/8" baltic birch and the back panels are 1/4" baltic birch plywood.



					www.ebay.com


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## aefpv (Dec 5, 2022)

RetiredUnit1 said:


> Mojotone has the instructions at the link below.  This would work irregardless of where you buy the kit, but they have *really good* reproduction cabs.  Alternately, the parts are available from a multitude of sources, and "sorrycharley" cabs on eBay are unfinished pine cabs so you can stain/paint/oil/varnish as you see fit.
> 
> Got my superhot cup of folgers now, best part of waking up is Folgers in your cup!!!!!  I drink it out of a 20oz starbucks mug tho, lol....
> 
> ...


I can verify that Mojotone does a good job for the kits. I made a Vibrochamp prior to making pedals. I have a Weber reverb unit in the mail, so we will see how they do. The Vibrochamp didn’t come with directions, but like you said, the instructions are fairly universal.


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

aefpv said:


> I can verify that Mojotone does a good job for the kits. I made a Vibrochamp prior to making pedals. I have a Weber reverb unit in the mail, so we will see how they do. The Vibrochamp didn’t come with directions, but like you said, the instructions are fairly universal.


You got the 6g15?  It's been on my to do list for 20 years, lol.  Someday I might even make one.....


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## aefpv (Dec 5, 2022)

RetiredUnit1 said:


> You got the 6g15?  It's been on my to do list for 20 years, lol.  Someday I might even make one.....


Yes. I ordered it last week. I will do a build report when it is done. I have tried several digital spring reverbs and none of them quite achieve the tone and ambience of a true spring reverb. Mod’s The Wave is based on the Fender reverb, but exchanges the 6v6 for two 12ax7s. I went with Weber due to the cabinet and YouTube examples. The Mod’s version sounded a “little” darker. However, it is set at a nice price point.


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## Fingolfen (Dec 5, 2022)

Okay - so I broke down and ordered a Mojotone 5F2-A... unfortunately the cabinet is backordered - it was showing in stock when I ordered...


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## HamishR (Dec 5, 2022)

The Mojo kits are pretty good. The main thing I don't like about them is orange drop caps! I can't stand them, mainly because they're huge and ugly. In an amp like that there are relatively few of them so it wouldn't cost much to use Mallory 150s instead - or even Sozo if you wanted to go all fancy. I also prefer to use 1W carbon film resistors over the carbon comps which come with the amp. I know CCs are supposed to be the "mojo" magic ingredient but IMO all they do is add noise and the potential to drift dramatically in value. Carbon film resistors are cheap, easy to find and rarely cause a problem.

You'll also want to wire the filaments differently from how Fender show them on the layout drawing. Probably Mojo will show how we do it these days.


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## Fingolfen (Dec 5, 2022)

HamishR said:


> The Mojo kits are pretty good. The main thing I don't like about them is orange drop caps! I can't stand them, mainly because they're huge and ugly. In an amp like that there are relatively few of them so it wouldn't cost much to use Mallory 150s instead - or even Sozo if you wanted to go all fancy. I also prefer to use 1W carbon film resistors over the carbon comps which come with the amp. I know CCs are supposed to be the "mojo" magic ingredient but IMO all they do is add noise and the potential to drift dramatically in value. Carbon film resistors are cheap, easy to find and rarely cause a problem.
> 
> You'll also want to wire the filaments differently from how Fender show them on the layout drawing. Probably Mojo will show how we do it these days.


I may decide to upgrade bits once I get the kit - the money for the kit isn't in the capacitors or resistors...


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

Fingolfen said:


> Okay - so I broke down and ordered a Mojotone 5F2-A... unfortunately the cabinet is backordered - it was showing in stock when I ordered...


 Well they have their own wood and tolex shop, so they'll get it done soon!


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

Fingolfen said:


> I may decide to upgrade bits once I get the kit - they money for the kit isn't in the capacitors or resistors...


If it comes with carbon comp resistors I highly suggest carbon film.  CC's drift with time and crack with age.  They hiss, hum and buzz.  Carbon film has the same vintage sound without all of the above problems.


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## owlexifry (Dec 5, 2022)

RetiredUnit1 said:


> Ship in a bottle.  The hardest part of building a 5e3 is the lack of space.  There are much fewer connections to make in a champ, and there's more space between components, and therefore a bit easier.
> 
> I've built over 30 5e3's, I know that.  I sort of lost count at how many over 30 tho, and it was a VERY long time ago.  One of the ones I kept for myself has original Yellow astron capacitors.  Fantastic tones.....


true, 5F1 is definitely a lot less parts.

But i think i meant to refer to the 5F2a as being more spacious (not the 5E3 - got the model codes mixed up).

5F1




5F2a




5E3





if i was a beginner, I reckon I'd go for the the 5F2a. 

it's basically a 5F1 with more chassis space and a tone control.


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## owlexifry (Dec 5, 2022)

HamishR said:


> The Mojo kits are pretty good. The main thing I don't like about them is orange drop caps! I can't stand them, mainly because they're huge and ugly. In an amp like that there are relatively few of them so it wouldn't cost much to use Mallory 150s instead - or even Sozo if you wanted to go all fancy.


agree mojo kits are great.

there is nothing wrong with orange drop caps.


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 5, 2022)

owlexifry said:


> true, 5F1 is definitely a lot less parts.
> 
> But i think i meant to refer to the 5F2a as being more spacious (not the 5E3 - got the model codes mixed up).
> 
> ...


Now I'm thinking I'll make a champ, lol, never made one before AND I have 10 .022 600v yellow bluepoint astrons I scored for a steal off of eBay.  Tested at 600v for 5 minutes, zero leakage!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## aefpv (Dec 5, 2022)

Fingolfen said:


> Okay - so I broke down and ordered a Mojotone 5F2-A... unfortunately the cabinet is backordered - it was showing in stock when I ordered...


I know this is pedal forum, but do a build report. If you amp build is anything like your pedals, it is going to be fantastic.


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## Fingolfen (Dec 5, 2022)

aefpv said:


> I know this is pedal forum, but do a build report. If you amp build is anything like your pedals, it is going to be fantastic.


Thanks!! Planning on it!


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## HamishR (Dec 6, 2022)

owlexifry said:


> agree mojo kits are great.
> 
> there is nothing wrong with orange drop caps.


Oh you are absolutely right. I just think they're huge and ugly.

I love building Marshall plexi style amps the most for some reason - maybe it's because I like the way they are laid out and there is generally enough room. But I've rarely found tweeds to be too fiddly. I'll generally populate the board before putting it into the chassis - it's kind of a no-brainer. And this is where using Mallory or Sozo caps is handy because orange drops can make it difficult to access all of the resistors.

For electrolytics I prefer F+Ts for the filters because they are smaller than the older blue Spragues and I have never had a problem with an F+T. I've had very few problems with Sprague either except for the size. I watch a fair bit of Mr Psionic on youtube and he is scathing about IC caps.

Fingolfen I think you will have a blast.  😜


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 6, 2022)

owlexifry said:


> agree mojo kits are great.
> 
> there is nothing wrong with orange drop caps.


There are several types, the film and foil ones are pretty good.  I forget the numbers, but I made an amp with some of the cheap ones and it was muted compared to some of the other caps I've used.  Reminded me of someone singing with their hand over their mouth.  NOS mustard caps are insanely bright in comparison.


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## RetiredUnit1 (Dec 6, 2022)

HamishR said:


> Oh you are absolutely right. I just think they're huge and ugly.
> 
> I love building Marshall plexi style amps the most for some reason - maybe it's because I like the way they are laid out and there is generally enough room. But I've rarely found tweeds to be too fiddly. I'll generally populate the board before putting it into the chassis - it's kind of a no-brainer. And this is where using Mallory or Sozo caps is handy because orange drops can make it difficult to access all of the resistors.
> 
> ...


For the Hiwatts I built I used the 'inny' tube sockets, and made exact size jigs for the sockets, pots and jacks.  This allowed me to make the entire amp on a board.  I had a line drawn where I would lay down a board, so I could flip up both sides bending the wires at a 90 before dropping in.  It was a three piece jig, so after flipping up a side I would ever so gently remove the components.  Solid core wire kept them in place.

Worked great.  I still have a complete DR504 in a box, made with 'tested at full voltage' nos mustard caps that I never finished after my associates, who I am prohibited from naming due to a non-disclosure agreement, said they were broke.  The NDA says I have to pay back every penny if I ever name names, so...... shhhhh

And right after that I lost my contract programmer gig at $85 an hour, so I just boxed that sucker up and hunkered down till I got another job and sort of forgot about it.  A few weeks ago I was digging around looking for some components on the loft in my shop and saw "MUSTARD DR504" on a box and thought OUUUUuUUUUUuUuUUUuu!


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## Fingolfen (Dec 6, 2022)

HamishR said:


> Oh you are absolutely right. I just think they're huge and ugly.
> 
> I love building Marshall plexi style amps the most for some reason - maybe it's because I like the way they are laid out and there is generally enough room. But I've rarely found tweeds to be too fiddly. I'll generally populate the board before putting it into the chassis - it's kind of a no-brainer. And this is where using Mallory or Sozo caps is handy because orange drops can make it difficult to access all of the resistors.
> 
> ...


Oh, I know I'm going to have fun - plus this amp will go great with this particular guitar:





This is technically going to be the second amp project I've started, but the first I'm likely to finish... The other one is... more challenging... and I sort of want to finish the process with something a bit simpler before I finish the other one.


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## Feral Feline (Dec 6, 2022)

I know you've got the Mojotone on order, but FWIW another kit source I forgot to mention:

Mable Audio



I thought Ceriatone offered kits, but don't see any. Maybe I'm thinking of some other company.


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## Fingolfen (Dec 6, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> I know you've got the Mojotone on order, but FWIW another kit source I forgot to mention:
> 
> Mable Audio
> 
> ...


Ceriatone does offer kits - you have to pick your favorite amp, and then click on the "kit" button. 

Shipping can be a bear, though...


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## HamishR (Dec 7, 2022)

I like the Mojo kits better than the Ceriatone ones. Mojo kits have fewer parts I'd change.


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## iamjackslackof (Dec 17, 2022)

@Feral Feline Do you have any experience or know of reviews of the Marble Audio stuff? Seems like they have built amps for surprisingly cheap. Made in China, but for the money it could be a good base for mods.


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## Feral Feline (Dec 18, 2022)

iamjackslackof said:


> @Feral Feline Do you have any experience or know of reviews of the Marble Audio stuff? Seems like they have built amps for surprisingly cheap. Made in China, but for the money it could be a good base for mods.


I've read some positive reviews, but didn't make note of them (who, where, when). 
One of my friends has ordered some parts from them, I'll ask him what he thought and get back to you.

What I _*can*_ tell you is that the Chinese website is much better with more varied parts and cheaper pricing than the English-language/sell-to-the-West site. My friend could find stuff on Mable that I couldn't track down; I may have even bought some parts from the Chinese site — info and parts sourced through my friend (same one as above) with his help, as I don't speak/read/write the language.


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## iamjackslackof (Dec 18, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> I've read some positive reviews, but didn't make note of them (who, where, when).
> One of my friends has ordered some parts from them, I'll ask him what he thought and get back to you.
> 
> What I _*can*_ tell you is that the Chinese website is much better with more varied parts and cheaper pricing than the English-language/sell-to-the-West site. My friend could find stuff on Mable that I couldn't track down; I may have even bought some parts from the Chinese site — info and parts sourced through my friend (same one as above) with his help, as I don't speak/read/write the language.



Thanks! I managed to find a few build threads of amp kits, but I'd like to take a chance on a pre-built amp. It's cheap enough there's not much lost if it's less than ideal, I guess.


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## cdwillis (Dec 18, 2022)

I've been eyeing up the Mojotone British 50 Watt (JMP) kits for a few weeks now and it looks like they're shipping them with Mallory caps now instead of orange drop caps. The fine print says they can swap parts in the kits depending on availability though.


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