# sour grape fuzz



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 29, 2021)

"compare to keely rotten apple" 
wondering if the sour grape is too sour...i have zero sustain at any setting...super glitchy with fast decay...based on the big muff op amp circuit..and compared to the keely rotten apple...but dont sound anything like either one of those...not necessarily a bad thing, just not the sound i was looking for...no cream ehatsoever...just hard abrupt crunch...is this normal for this circuit?


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 29, 2021)

BTW...tried both humfuckers and single coil


----------



## Robert (Jan 29, 2021)

No, that's not normal.   Post some pics of your build.


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 29, 2021)

i will as soon as i get home from work...its pretty simple tho...


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 29, 2021)

heer is the pho toe..


----------



## Danbieranowski (Jan 30, 2021)

jpalmer5948 said:


> heer is the pho toe..


No photo included.


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)




----------



## music6000 (Jan 30, 2021)

Those waterclear LED's have a forward voltage around 3.3v, they are not suited for Clipping.
The Build list 3mm Red which are Diffused (Red Lens) around 2.1v.
That would be the first thing to try!


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

is that why they barely light up?


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

will you post link, cause both the clear and the diffused on tayda list the same forward voltage of 2-2.2


----------



## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 30, 2021)

What color are the LEDs?  Color determines the forward voltage, not whether the lens is clear or diffused.  Use red LEDs; size and lens finish does not matter.  

Have you double-checked all of the component values?  Do you have a DMM?

BTW, the LEDs will light up with BUZZ dimed.


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> What color are the LEDs?  Color determines the forward voltage, not whether the lens is clear or diffused.  Use red LEDs; size and lens finish does not matter.
> 
> Have you double-checked all of the component values?  Do you have a DMM?
> 
> BTW, the LEDs will light up with BUZZ dimed.


they are red....yes, i use a DMM and a component tester on every individual part before i install


----------



## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 30, 2021)

Measure the voltage on pins 1, 7, 8 & 14 of the IC.  Should all be close to +4.5V.

It's hard to tell from the pix, the LEDs are facing opposite directions, correct?


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Measure the voltage on pins 1, 7, 8 & 14 of the IC.  Should all be close to +4.5V.
> 
> It's hard to tell from the pix, the LEDs are facing opposite directions, correct?


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

yes they are...they are def polarized correctly as well


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

all pins stated above are 4.5+/- EXCEPT pin 14, which is 8V????


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

also..when you say the leds come on when the buzz pot is dimed, do you mean w/o a signal? cause they come on and decay with the guitar signal, but the do not come on when there is no signal, regardless of pot level


----------



## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 30, 2021)

jpalmer5948 said:


> also..when you say the leds come on when the buzz pot is dimed, do you mean w/o a signal? cause they come on and decay with the guitar signal, but the do not come on when there is no signal, regardless of pot level


I meant when you play with BUZZ dimed, the LEDs will light up and then dim when the guitar signal decays.  The two LEDs should be dark with little or no guitar signal present.



jpalmer5948 said:


> all pins stated above are 4.5+/- EXCEPT pin 14, which is 8V????


Pins 1, 7 & 8 tell us the IC bias point is ok, but something is wrong with pin 14.  Check the voltage on pins 12 & 13.  Make sure the IC is fully seated in the socket and no leads are tucked under.  Maybe a bad solder joint on C16.  You can tell better that we can.  Bend the TONE pot up and inspect the solder joints under that too.


----------



## music6000 (Jan 30, 2021)

music6000 said:


> Those waterclear LED's have a forward voltage around 3.3v, they are not suited for Clipping.
> The Build list 3mm Red which are Diffused (Red Lens) around 2.1v.
> That would be the first thing to try!


Just woke up , 7.00am in Western Australia!
A rule of Thumb is to purchase Diffused led's so you know what Colour & Voltage you are getting for Clipping purposes!


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

voltage set to same setting as pin 12=4.2V, pin 13=1.2V....as far as solder joints go...they look good, as far as i can tell...C16 looks fine as well....not sure why pin 14 has a 8V...i just built the super hetrodine as well and total shit...loud scraping noise non stop all the controls work, but cant really heer it over the loud noise....im pretty good at soldering and fairly careful about using correct values, never in a hurry and i dont get stoned...so not sure whats going on..but this has been my luck with these for a while..its total hit and miss...sometimes just seems better to buy the original so the excitement to try something new is actually realized...😢


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 29, 2021)

"compare to keely rotten apple" 
wondering if the sour grape is too sour...i have zero sustain at any setting...super glitchy with fast decay...based on the big muff op amp circuit..and compared to the keely rotten apple...but dont sound anything like either one of those...not necessarily a bad thing, just not the sound i was looking for...no cream ehatsoever...just hard abrupt crunch...is this normal for this circuit?


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

had alot more misses...too many to just be me, or coincidence...i mean, i have alot of tools and im pretty careful..never actually solved any of the issues of all my pile of duds that are stacking up..ive spent countless hrs on forums..tried everything i was advised, scoured the internet, and im fairly handy at hobby electronics...ive built at least 60+ pedals from pcbs and a ton from diagrams on vero and strip bord...starting to get frustrated...i read good reviews, want to try it...then over half of the builds i do dont work correctly, i get on heer to trouble shoot and see a shit ton of people that arr also having problems...someone please help


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

id be willing to pay someone instead of buying the original pedal, to trouble shoot and fix...just to see EXACTLY what im doing wrong...just so i could get an actual second opinion...either the bords/instructions are complete shit, or i doing sometging terribly wrong and it would be worth it just to know if which is the case...


----------



## music6000 (Jan 30, 2021)

jpalmer5948 said:


> had alot more misses...too many to just be me, or coincidence...i mean, i have alot of tools and im pretty careful..never actually solved any of the issues of all my pile of duds that are stacking up..ive spent countless hrs on forums..tried everything i was advised, scoured the internet, and im fairly handy at hobby electronics...ive built at least 60+ pedals from pcbs and a ton from diagrams on vero and strip bord...starting to get frustrated...i read good reviews, want to try it...then over half of the builds i do dont work correctly, i get on heer to trouble shoot and see a shit ton of people that arr also having problems...someone please help


To be totally Honest, the Solder joints are bad.
You need a Clean tinned Hot Solderering Iron at all times & 60/40 Solder - .5mm to .8mm.
If you have cleaned the Solder side already, It's really bad :


----------



## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 30, 2021)

jpalmer5948 said:


> and i don't get stoned...


OK, now we're getting to the root of the problem...


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

so....the solder joints look sloppy..but that is simply resin residue...there are no bridges...and the advice that i was given for soldering (clean tip, 60/40 .5mm, etc) i already use those methods...


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Jan 30, 2021)

but i will look at those joints more closely


----------



## Robert (Jan 30, 2021)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> OK, now we're getting to the root of the problem...



You beat me to it.      

Would have gotten here faster, but I was .... working.


----------



## dlazzarini (Jan 30, 2021)

jpalmer5948 said:


> id be willing to pay someone instead of buying the original pedal, to trouble shoot and fix...just to see EXACTLY what im doing wrong...just so i could get an actual second opinion...either the bords/instructions are complete shit, or i doing sometging terribly wrong and it would be worth it just to know if which is the case...


I’ve never received a bad board or instructions from pedalpcb. Over 20 builds in and all have worked perfectly.


----------



## music6000 (Jan 31, 2021)

jpalmer5948 said:


> but i will look at those joints more closely


Your Board needs to look like this, I use CRC Contact Cleaner, just spray a few times and the flux residue should dissolve.
That residue has to be removed!!!
Others use Isopryl & Toothbrush!


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Feb 1, 2021)

dlazzarini said:


> I’ve never received a bad board or instructions from pedalpcb. Over 20 builds in and all have worked perfectly.


ah.....thats what i thot...so i wish i knew what i was doing wrong...cause i pretty much do everything the same, except when i learn a better way...and some totally work, and some dont....i feel very helpless...i wish i had one on one with a master one time.....sense` miagi?


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Feb 1, 2021)

music6000 said:


> Your Board needs to look like this, I use CRC Contact Cleaner, just spray a few times and the flux residue should dissolve.
> That residue has to be removed!!!
> Others use Isopryl & Toothbrush!
> 
> View attachment 9456


thank you!


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Feb 10, 2021)

clean...still doing exact same thing


----------



## music6000 (Feb 11, 2021)

jpalmer5948 said:


> clean...still doing exact same thing


Can you show Good picture of Clean Solder side PCB


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Feb 11, 2021)

heer


----------



## Robert (Feb 24, 2021)

You can't see it in the photos above, but the problem was a cut trace between Pin 8 of IC1 and the tone stack.


----------



## jpalmer5948 (Feb 24, 2021)

how does that happen? need to understand for future reference...is it cut all the way thru, and how would one detect that?..does this mean there can never be any scratches on the shield?


----------



## xefned (Dec 11, 2021)

I'm a latecomer to this thread; I'm just now building the Sour Apple fuzz. But it looks like you're _cutting in_ to the solder joints. I've been told this can cause a cold solder joint *after* you've soldered (or smoked) a perfect joint. It's OK to leave a little nib of the lead above your cut, in fact, it's probably a good thing to try.  You can also go back and reflow all the solder joints which might fix some of the builds in your junkyard pile.

Cleaning up the flux is not essential to getting a perfectly working build. (At least in stompboxes.)

Hope you've had some successes this year. The failures can feel devastating unless you have some successes to balance them out!!


----------



## giovanni (Dec 13, 2021)

Was this resolved over DM? My guess is that when you cut off one of the component legs you may have scratched the trace off?


----------

