# 3pdt breakout: wires keep snapping



## smsms (Nov 8, 2019)

Hi folks! I'm trying to build a Triangulum boost – my first-ever non-kit pedal build – and I'm having a hell of a time connecting the 3pdt breakout board to the main board. I'll successfully solder a few holes but then a wire will just snap, I'll have to clean out the pad, another connection will break… rinse and repeat ad infinitum.  At this point, a few of the breakout board holes are somewhat damaged and are having a hard time taking solder.

As you'll see in the attached pic I already soldered the breakout board to the switch. Lesson learned, I guess.

What do you recommend I do? At this point I'm tempted to break the breakout off the switch and wire up its lugs the old fashioned way, or even buy a new switch, but I'd prefer to use what I already have.


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## benny_profane (Nov 8, 2019)

Where are you getting your wire? That shouldn’t be an issue as much with stranded wire (as opposed to solid core, which is more susceptible to breaking when overly manipulated/handled), so I’m a little confused. What solder/iron temperature are you using? Those joints look very suspect as well.  

Also, what happened to the solder mask on the pcb?


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## smsms (Nov 8, 2019)

benny_profane said:


> Where are you getting your wire? That shouldn’t be an issue as much with stranded wire (as opposed to solid core, which is more susceptible to breaking when overly manipulated/handled), so I’m a little confused. What solder/iron temperature are you using? Those joints look very suspect as well.
> 
> Also, what happened to the solder mask on the pcb?



I'm using 24awg stranded wire from Tayda. I have this iron, it's 30W. I'm using this solder.

The scratches on the PCBs are from my helping hand. I realized kind of late that the metal teeth were scratching up the solder mask, so I put electrical tape on the jaws.


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## Nostradoomus (Nov 8, 2019)

I only use wire on the jack ins/outs, for the 4 main board connections I stack them with header pins. Much easier that way.


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## benny_profane (Nov 8, 2019)

smsms said:


> I'm using 24awg stranded wire from Tayda. I have this iron, it's 30W. I'm using this solder.
> 
> The scratches on the PCBs are from my helping hand. I realized kind of late that the metal teeth were scratching up the solder mask, so I put electrical tape on the jaws.


I would suggest trying a different source for wire and perhaps honing your soldering technique. Are you twisting the wires excessively after they've been soldered?


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## benny_profane (Nov 8, 2019)

Nostradoomus said:


> I only use wire on the jack ins/outs, for the 4 main board connections I stack them with header pins. Much easier that way.


I would recommend not doing this. Although it may be easier, it invites issues with mechanical failure in the long run.Aluminum enclosures have an amount of give to them. By isolating the 3PDT switch from the motherboard via wiring, the switch/daughterboard is able to move independently and not transfer mechanical stress to the motherboard, which is anchored to the enclosure via pots/switches. The joints with header pins can develop breaks over time due to mechanical stress. If you're using a relay bypass, mounting via header pins is fine because the switch is not directly mounted to the relay daughterboard.


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## Robert (Nov 8, 2019)

I use solid core for everything except the wires from the In/Out jacks.

Also, it's considered bad practice to some, but I wire mine up in the enclosure.   No flexing / flopping around to break wires that way.


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## benny_profane (Nov 8, 2019)

Robert said:


> I use solid core for everything except the wires from the In/Out jacks.
> 
> Also, it's considered bad practice to some, but I wire mine up in the enclosure.   No flexing / flopping around to break wires that way.


I didn't mean to infer that solid core is across the board a bad idea; however, solid core wire is less forgiving to manipulation (particularly at joints) and requires some more foresight with a wiring scheme. For that reason, I'd hesitate to recommend solid core to folks just starting out.

In re wiring up inside the enclosure: I do the same thing (and think a lot of builders do). The one caveat here is that I strongly recommend _testing _the circuit prior to wiring it. It's an extra step, yes, but it makes troubleshooting so much easier if you find something before all of the off-board components are already installed.


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## zgrav (Nov 8, 2019)

I usually wire the board to the switch inside the enclosure before soldering in the LED.  That way I get the LED orientation correct (assuming the power supply is connected correctly to the PCB...) and make sure it switches on and off.


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## smsms (Nov 8, 2019)

benny_profane said:


> I would suggest trying a different source for wire and perhaps honing your soldering technique. Are you twisting the wires excessively after they've been soldered?



I'm not really twisting the wires at all, I don't think.

I’ll try the advice of using different-sourced wire and doing as much as possible within the enclosure. I have some solid core wire, if I’m smart about measuring it i think I might use it for these four connections.


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## zgrav (Nov 8, 2019)

the issue is a lot of stranded wire can be stiff and prone to breaking if you have snipped some of the wires when cutting away the insulation, and some wire is just a pain in the ass to work with.  there is stranded wire that is very flexible and suited for this purposes, solid wire that is easily bent is also good.   I think it helps to have a wire stripper that does not cut the wires too.  something like this helps a lot:  


			https://amazon.com/Capri-20011-Automatic-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B01018CX46/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia?keywords=wire+stripper&pd_rd_i=B01018CX46&pd_rd_r=58b8056a-d51a-4805-886b-6c42c40bff93&pd_rd_w=qaESf&pd_rd_wg=oWDbY&pf_rd_p=1cb3f32a-ccfd-479b-8a13-b22f56c942c6&pf_rd_r=VE2WS2BZBPYEW8DRSH8B&psc=1&qid=1573257081


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## Nostradoomus (Nov 9, 2019)

benny_profane said:


> I would recommend not doing this. Although it may be easier, it invites issues with mechanical failure in the long run.Aluminum enclosures have an amount of give to them. By isolating the 3PDT switch from the motherboard via wiring, the switch/daughterboard is able to move independently and not transfer mechanical stress to the motherboard, which is anchored to the enclosure via pots/switches. The joints with header pins can develop breaks over time due to mechanical stress. If you're using a relay bypass, mounting via header pins is fine because the switch is not directly mounted to the relay daughterboard.



I do see your point, but I have not have any issues thus far. If something has failed with my builds it is usually a “lifecycle of the component” problem.

I definitely see a problem if the user is particularly heavy footed, but most standard enclosures are fairly resilient and more than tolerant enough to withstand some kicks here and there. Provided the proper termination of nut-lock washer-enclosure-washer-nut there shouldn’t be an issue.


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## zgrav (Nov 9, 2019)

I think using the lead connections look pretty cool, and are fine for a box you build for personal use.  I probably would use wires for the connection if I were building it for someone else just because of the unknowns associated with how rough someone else may be with a pedal, how often it gets dropped when being moved, etc.    It is sort or using the "industrial use" concept for building -- same thing that happens with "military grade" electronics and AC outlets and light switches.


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## Jovi Bon Kenobi (Nov 9, 2019)

A couple things I noticed...
1. You don't need heat shrink on those wires to the bb.
2. It may be too late for that footswitch and bb. Next time, try this process. Scroll down to fig. 24 specifically.





						Basic Workflow Tips for Building a PedalPCB
					

Hello! This is my method for building a PedalPCB from start to finish. Is it the right way? Not necessarily. It's just what works for me and I hope it sheds some light on certain steps in the process along the way. I created this as a reference guide for anyone to use if needed. Thanks for...



					forum.pedalpcb.com


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## smsms (Nov 10, 2019)

Jovi Bon Kenobi said:


> A couple things I noticed...
> 1. You don't need heat shrink on those wires to the bb.
> 2. It may be too late for that footswitch and bb. Next time, try this process. Scroll down to fig. 24 specifically.
> 
> ...



I put the heatshrink on thinking it'd help the joints not to snap.

Thanks for the guide! I'll do my best to follow it on my next build.



zgrav said:


> the issue is a lot of stranded wire can be stiff and prone to breaking if you have snipped some of the wires when cutting away the insulation, and some wire is just a pain in the ass to work with.  there is stranded wire that is very flexible and suited for this purposes, solid wire that is easily bent is also good.   I think it helps to have a wire stripper that does not cut the wires too.  something like this helps a lot:
> 
> 
> https://amazon.com/Capri-20011-Automatic-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B01018CX46/ref=sxts_sxwds-bia?keywords=wire+stripper&pd_rd_i=B01018CX46&pd_rd_r=58b8056a-d51a-4805-886b-6c42c40bff93&pd_rd_w=qaESf&pd_rd_wg=oWDbY&pf_rd_p=1cb3f32a-ccfd-479b-8a13-b22f56c942c6&pf_rd_r=VE2WS2BZBPYEW8DRSH8B&psc=1&qid=1573257081



Your comment inspired me to pick up a better wire stripper - I'd been using a 20 stripper on my 24 awg wire, and unsurprisingly it wasn't particularly useful. The final few connections look much better.


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## BurntFingers (Nov 10, 2019)

Make the wires about 1.5 inches longer than the gap. When the switch is placed into the enclosure it moves a lot and will take up most of this slack. 

Just make your wires longer than you are doing. That white wire you've got there is too short, and is going to snap under the stress because they don't stretch.


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## smsms (Nov 10, 2019)

BurntFingers said:


> Make the wires about 1.5 inches longer than the gap. When the switch is placed into the enclosure it moves a lot and will take up most of this slack.
> 
> Just make your wires longer than you are doing. That white wire you've got there is too short, and is going to snap under the stress because they don't stretch.



Yep! I followed the guide linked earlier in the post and used more generous lengths of wire for those connections. It went much smoother.


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## smsms (Dec 11, 2019)

Jovi Bon Kenobi said:


> A couple things I noticed...
> 1. You don't need heat shrink on those wires to the bb.
> 2. It may be too late for that footswitch and bb. Next time, try this process. Scroll down to fig. 24 specifically.
> 
> ...



Just wanted to circle back: per your suggestion I bought a new 3PDT and BB, hooked them up, and not only did the pedal work first time it sounds better than I'd ever hoped. Thank you so much! 


        View this content on Instagram            View this content on Instagram


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## BurntFingers (Dec 11, 2019)

Just make your wires longer. You need a lot more slack than you're allowing for, looking at your pics.


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## smsms (Dec 11, 2019)

BurntFingers said:


> Just make your wires longer. You need a lot more slack than you're allowing for, looking at your pics.


Yep, and I definitely wasn't leaving enough wire to thread through the holes. Once I bought a proper stripper and started leaving ~5mm of slack bare wire, my life got a lot easier.


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## smsms (Nov 8, 2019)

Hi folks! I'm trying to build a Triangulum boost – my first-ever non-kit pedal build – and I'm having a hell of a time connecting the 3pdt breakout board to the main board. I'll successfully solder a few holes but then a wire will just snap, I'll have to clean out the pad, another connection will break… rinse and repeat ad infinitum.  At this point, a few of the breakout board holes are somewhat damaged and are having a hard time taking solder.

As you'll see in the attached pic I already soldered the breakout board to the switch. Lesson learned, I guess.

What do you recommend I do? At this point I'm tempted to break the breakout off the switch and wire up its lugs the old fashioned way, or even buy a new switch, but I'd prefer to use what I already have.


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## BurntFingers (Dec 11, 2019)

It happened to my on my first build. I didn't allocate for the switch being about half an inch higher than where I was measuring. Now I add about an inch more than I think I need and it's been working great and also allows for some latitude if the board ever needs to be removed.


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