# Brown Betty slowly dying



## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

Hey Guys!

I’m new on the forum and pretty new to pedal building. I recently(almost) completed a Brown Betty, but it has issues and I’m nor sure how to look for them. Hopefully someone has any advice.

1. The bass control does nothing. This might just be a malfunctioning pot, but If anyone has any other ideas of what I should look into I’m all ears. There is a little bit of a scratching sound when I turn it, but not a lot and there’s nothing happening with the sound.

2. This is a bigger issue. When I fire up the pedal it works perfectly(except that pot ofc). But after playing a while it slowly dies. Almost soujds like a rapidly dying tube. It starts scratching, than falling in and out before it goes total dead. Takes about 10-15 minutes for this to happen. If I unplug the dc power and plug it back in it works great again, for 10-15 minutes. I can’t see any cold solders. On cap was badly soldered, but that has been fixed.

Hope someone can help me out cause I love the sound of the pedal.


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 13, 2020)

You may have a bad dc jack. Try replacing it.

do you have a dmm to test the bad pot? Also see if it’s shorting out on the board. Do you have dust covers?


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

BuddytheReow said:


> You may have a bad dc jack. Try replacing it.
> 
> do you have a dmm to test the bad pot? Also see if it’s shorting out on the board. Do you have dust covers?


Hey Man!

thanx for replying. I can def try changing the DC-jack. I’d be really happy if it’s that easy.

now for the noob-reply: I have a dmm, but not sure how I’d test the pot. I have decent soldering skills, but still working on my theoretical knowledge in this field. Dust cover?


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## Jovi Bon Kenobi (Nov 13, 2020)

I've had power jacks fail but never gradually, they would just intermittently short out. How about some clear photos of the top and bottom of the board and wiring?


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## dlazzarini (Nov 13, 2020)

TSReppe said:


> Hey Man!
> 
> thanx for replying. I can def try changing the DC-jack. I’d be really happy if it’s that easy.
> 
> now for the noob-reply: I have a dmm, but not sure how I’d test the pot. I have decent soldering skills, but still working on my theoretical knowledge in this field. Dust cover?


Dust covers are little plastic caps that cover the body of the pot keeping it from shorting to the underside/solder side of the board. 
To test your pot, set your dmm to measure resistance. Connect your probes to lugs 1 and 2. Turn the pot and watch for resistance change. You should see it go from zero ohms to somewhere close to the rated resistance of the pot. Also always post clear pics of both sides of the board and all of the off board wiring.


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 13, 2020)

dlazzarini said:


> Dust covers are little plastic caps that cover the body of the pot keeping it from shorting to the underside/solder side of the board.
> To test your pot, set your dmm to measure resistance. Connect your probes to lugs 1 and 2. Turn the pot and watch for resistance change. You should see it go from zero ohms to somewhere close to the rated resistance of the pot. Also always post clear pics of both sides of the board and all of the off board wiring.


Also test lugs 2 and 3. For resistance testing, it doesn't matter which color (red or black) goes to each lug. Set your meter one notch above what the pot value should be. For example, my meter goes in increments (2k, 20k, 200k, 2m). If the pot has a value of 100k then set the meter to 200k to test.


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

Really helpful info guys!

I measured the pot and yeah, it’s not working properly. I’ll get it changed. It showed pretty much the same value clockwise as counterclockwise.

Here are pictures. I know it ain’t pretty, but I can’t see any cold solders or things touching that shouldn’t touch.


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 13, 2020)

Can you show a pic of the jacks/power wiring?


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## zgrav (Nov 13, 2020)

the measured values on a pot won't change if you are testing the outside terminals.  the change is between the middle terminal and each of the outside terminals.  so measure the resistance from terminals 1 and 2 when you rotate the shaft, and between 2 and 3.


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

Yeah that’s how I measured the pot!


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

I didn’t have any 20k resistors so R32 and R35 are 22k. Could that have anything to do with it?


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## Jovi Bon Kenobi (Nov 13, 2020)

Once you sort out that pot, I'd definitely second recommendation of insulating the back of the pots from the board for future builds. Of course, dust covers are the best option, but there are other choices...sticking on a rubber foot, a piece of heavy cardstock, etc... If you use electrical tape, one layer is usually not enough or recommended. 
Also, welcome to the forum!
Figures 18-22 on this thread show another method for insulating pots.





						Basic Workflow Tips for Building a PedalPCB
					

Hello! This is my method for building a PedalPCB from start to finish. Is it the right way? Not necessarily. It's just what works for me and I hope it sheds some light on certain steps in the process along the way. I created this as a reference guide for anyone to use if needed. Thanks for...



					forum.pedalpcb.com


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## zgrav (Nov 13, 2020)

have you confirmed the bass control does not work even when the board is not mounted inside the enclosure?  if you can test it when it is out of the box, try it with the bass pot lifted up a little off of the board and see if it works then.

going back to the pot that you measured where the resistance did not change when you turned the shaft -- what reading were you getting on your dmm?


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

zgrav said:


> have you confirmed the bass control does not work even when the board is not mounted inside the enclosure?  if you can test it when it is out of the box, try it with the bass pot lifted up a little off of the board and see if it works then.
> 
> going back to the pot that you measured where the resistance did not change when you turned the shaft -- what reading were you getting on your dmm?


No difference outside the enclosure and bent further from the board. Dmm set to 200k it shows about 07.0 either way. The mid pot which is also a rev log 100k shows the same all the way down, but double all the way up measured on 1 and 2. Mirrored measurements if I measure 2 and 3.

But it’s that slowly dying thing that the biggest issue.


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## zgrav (Nov 13, 2020)

if you can run more than one pedal at a time on the power supply you are using, see if anything funny is going on with a different pedal when you are getting the "slow death" thing going on with your new build.  It might be your power supply is struggling at the same time.  and when you are getting the "slow death" sound see if your power supply is warm to the touch.  I am wondering if you have a short on your pedal that is straining your power supply.


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

zgrav said:


> if you can run more than one pedal at a time on the power supply you are using, see if anything funny is going on with a different pedal when you are getting the "slow death" thing going on with your new build.  It might be your power supply is struggling at the same time.  and when you are getting the "slow death" sound see if your power supply is warm to the touch.  I am wondering if you have a short on your pedal that is straining your power supply.


Ok I’ve made some progress. When the dying starts happening I physically touch the solderingspots of C22, then the pedal comes right back to life. Would suppose that means that cap is bad. I’m waiting for the pedal to die again to make the same test with other caps to see if it’s an isolated issue. Unsure how that cap being bad could cause this issue.


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## zgrav (Nov 13, 2020)

I don't see a C22 in the build docs.  Do you mean C2?  That one is right under your bass pot.


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

zgrav said:


> I don't see a C22 in the build docs.  Do you mean C2?  That one is right under your bass pot.


Sorry, I mean C12!


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 13, 2020)

Now where getting somewhere . Good feeling when we make troubleshooting progress


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

BuddytheReow said:


> Now where getting somewhere . Good feeling when we make troubleshooting progress


I’ve replaced it and will now have to wait 10-15 minutes and see if the pedal is still alive. It was a high quality wima cap in that position. Annoying if it turns out to be the responsible component.


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

Hey Guys!

I’m new on the forum and pretty new to pedal building. I recently(almost) completed a Brown Betty, but it has issues and I’m nor sure how to look for them. Hopefully someone has any advice.

1. The bass control does nothing. This might just be a malfunctioning pot, but If anyone has any other ideas of what I should look into I’m all ears. There is a little bit of a scratching sound when I turn it, but not a lot and there’s nothing happening with the sound.

2. This is a bigger issue. When I fire up the pedal it works perfectly(except that pot ofc). But after playing a while it slowly dies. Almost soujds like a rapidly dying tube. It starts scratching, than falling in and out before it goes total dead. Takes about 10-15 minutes for this to happen. If I unplug the dc power and plug it back in it works great again, for 10-15 minutes. I can’t see any cold solders. On cap was badly soldered, but that has been fixed.

Hope someone can help me out cause I love the sound of the pedal.


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

BuddytheReow said:


> Now where getting somewhere . Good feeling when we make troubleshooting progress


Issue still there  but yeah, it comes back when the solderpoints are touced..


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

Also found out the pedal shortcuts if I touch the solderjoints of r16 an r24 simoultaneously.


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## Chas Grant (Nov 13, 2020)

Looking at the schematic, your bass pot is in the same part of the circuit as C12, since you ruled the pot bad, remove it then commence troubleshooting the pedal dying. It is hard to troubleshoot 2 bad components in the same circuit. Be careful removing pot! It’s very risky to do and easy to damage board. If you haven’t done it before, consider cutting the leads of the pot then remove the cut leads one by one


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## Chas Grant (Nov 13, 2020)

One other thing, after removing pot, see if dying issue still exists! The bad pot could be the culprit. The pedal will work without the bass pot in the circuit, may not sound to good, then again it just might. How do you think mods come about?


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## TSReppe (Nov 14, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> One other thing, after removing pot, see if dying issue still exists! The bad pot could be the culprit. The pedal will work without the bass pot in the circuit, may not sound to good, then again it just might. How do you think mods come about?


Yeah I’m down to two theories. The bad pot or the two resistors that are 22k instead of 20k. Those are have to do with voltage and it sounds like a voltage issue, but how a jumpstart at c12 gets it back to life will be a bigger mystery.


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## PJS (Nov 14, 2020)

Having those resistors at 22k is going to change the Vref voltage by a very small amount.  I doubt it is going to make any noticeable difference to the sound.


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## TSReppe (Nov 14, 2020)

PJS said:


> Having those resistors at 22k is going to change the Vref voltage by a very small amount.  I doubt it is going to make any noticeable difference to the sound.


That was my thinking when using them, but I’m out of ideas now. Changed the pot. Tested the new pot before putting it in, and yes, it had a difference when turned, but when I put it in it reacted like the other one. No difference on measurements when turning the pot and no difference to the sound. I’ll try the resistors, but if that doesn’t work I think I’ll cut my losses, salvage parts and move on to the next project.


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## music6000 (Nov 14, 2020)

That is the wrong thought of thinking unless you have Money to Burn.
Members here will help you through it but if you want quit, I can't guarantee you will get Help with your next project.

Here is something that could be an Issue also :


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## Chas Grant (Nov 14, 2020)

R32 and R35 at 22K is fine and should not affect the circuit. They are the top resistors of a voltage divider suppling voltage to the non-inverting inputs of an op-amp being used as a buffer for the reference voltages. We will assume that voltage after R30 is 8V, due to voltage drop of D5 and R30. With the resistors at 20K Vref/Vdd will be 4.19V, with resistors at 22K Vref/Vdd will be 4V. So .19 volts difference will not have much of an affect on operation of circuit. Part substitutions like this have been going on forever in the pedal world. A manufacture will run out of one part but keep producing pedals using the closest value they have on hand to keep production running. Just look at how many versions of the Big Muff Pi there are.


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## TSReppe (Nov 14, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> R32 and R35 at 22K is fine and should not affect the circuit. They are the top resistors of a voltage divider suppling voltage to the non-inverting inputs of an op-amp being used as a buffer for the reference voltages. We will assume that voltage after R30 is 8V, due to voltage drop of D5 and R30. With the resistors at 20K Vref/Vdd will be 4.19V, with resistors at 22K Vref/Vdd will be 4V. So .19 volts difference will not have much of an affect on operation of circuit. Part substitutions like this have been going on forever in the pedal world. A manufacture will run out of one part but keep producing pedals using the closest value they have on hand to keep production running. Just look at how many versions of the Big Muff Pi there are.


Sounds about right. Couldn’t imagine that being the issue, but for now it’s all I’ve got.


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## TSReppe (Nov 14, 2020)

music6000 said:


> That is the wrong thought of thinking unless you have Money to Burn.
> Members here will help you through it but if you want quit, I can't guarantee you will get Help with your next project.
> 
> Here is something that could be an Issue also :
> View attachment 7702



It’s just frustrating dude 
In the picture it looks close, but those points has never touched and the 3pdt is soldered to the spesifications of the build docs. At the very least I’ll step back a bit before looking at it again.

What I know is this:
The pedal works fine for about 10-15 minutes before it starts dying. It does so slowly and it sounds like voltage dropping off. First it gets muddier, goes over to sounding more like a fuzz, starts gating before eventually going totally quiet. The two ways of getting it back to life is either unpligging and plugging back in the power supply, or jumpstarting it by touching the two solderpoints of C12 simoultainously. I don’t get this effect by touching anywhere else.

Things I’ve tried so far is replacing C12, replacing the bass pot, which is in the same part of the circuit and replacing IC4. There was one loose cap, but that has been taken care of. DC-input has also been replaced.


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## music6000 (Nov 14, 2020)

TSReppe said:


> It’s just frustrating dude
> In the picture it looks close, but those points has never touched and the 3pdt is soldered to the spesifications of the build docs. At the very least I’ll step back a bit before looking at it again.
> 
> What I know is this:
> ...


Do a Continuity check with the Matching colours/ letters & check all the solder pads Highlighted in the Circles/ Letters  :

*Updated *with Matching Letters


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## TSReppe (Nov 14, 2020)

music6000 said:


> Do a Continuity check with the Matching colours & check all the solder pads Highlighted in the Circles :
> View attachment 7706


Cheers man!

I’ll do this tonight when I’m home ?


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## TSReppe (Nov 14, 2020)

music6000 said:


> Do a Continuity check with the Matching colours & check all the solder pads Highlighted in the Circles :
> View attachment 7706


Would seem like the continuity-test on my cheap ass dmm isn’t working. I need to get that sorted out or see if I can borrow one to make these tests.


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## zgrav (Nov 14, 2020)

TSReppe said:


> Would seem like the continuity-test on my cheap ass dmm isn’t working. I need to get that sorted out or see if I can borrow one to make these tests.


you can set the DMM to measure resistance and then check those points to see if you get a zero reading


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## TSReppe (Nov 14, 2020)

zgrav said:


> you can set the DMM to measure resistance and then check those points to see if you get a zero reading


Good tip!

But they all check out. No zero readings.


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## Chas Grant (Nov 14, 2020)

you want zero readings


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## TSReppe (Nov 14, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> you want zero readings


Ok... everyone og them gave some low measurements, but no zeros.


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## zgrav (Nov 14, 2020)

continuity means you should have zero readings between those same-color points.  if you are not getting zero readings that could explain why your continuity test was not sounding either.


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## music6000 (Nov 14, 2020)

TSReppe said:


> Would seem like the continuity-test on my cheap ass dmm isn’t working. I need to get that sorted out or see if I can borrow one to make these tests.


This is what you need, How *Cheap Ass* are we talking here!!!.


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## TSReppe (Nov 13, 2020)

Hey Guys!

I’m new on the forum and pretty new to pedal building. I recently(almost) completed a Brown Betty, but it has issues and I’m nor sure how to look for them. Hopefully someone has any advice.

1. The bass control does nothing. This might just be a malfunctioning pot, but If anyone has any other ideas of what I should look into I’m all ears. There is a little bit of a scratching sound when I turn it, but not a lot and there’s nothing happening with the sound.

2. This is a bigger issue. When I fire up the pedal it works perfectly(except that pot ofc). But after playing a while it slowly dies. Almost soujds like a rapidly dying tube. It starts scratching, than falling in and out before it goes total dead. Takes about 10-15 minutes for this to happen. If I unplug the dc power and plug it back in it works great again, for 10-15 minutes. I can’t see any cold solders. On cap was badly soldered, but that has been fixed.

Hope someone can help me out cause I love the sound of the pedal.


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## Nostradoomus (Nov 14, 2020)

My continuity test stops working when the battery is on its way out.


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## music6000 (Nov 14, 2020)

TSReppe said:


> Cheers man!
> 
> I’ll do this tonight when I’m home ?





music6000 said:


> This is what you need, How *Cheap Ass* are we talking here!!!.
> 
> View attachment 7717


*Updated *the PCB Continuity Layout!


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## BurntFingers (Nov 14, 2020)

It sounds like an electrolytic has died.


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## music6000 (Nov 14, 2020)

BurntFingers said:


> It sounds like an electrolytic has died.


Are you referring to the Brown Betty PCB? 
That was next on my List!


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## BurntFingers (Nov 14, 2020)

music6000 said:


> Are you referring to the Brown Betty PCB?
> That was next on my List!


I'm referring to whatever problem someone was having with a pedal dying after 10 minutes. It really sounds like an electrolytic is losing charge and crapping itself. Same thing happens with boned filter caps in old amps.


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## music6000 (Nov 14, 2020)

BurntFingers said:


> I'm referring to whatever problem someone was having with a pedal dying after 10 minutes. It really sounds like an electrolytic is losing charge and crapping itself. Same thing happens with boned filter caps in old amps.


Yep, that is this Pedal's issue but he has a Bass control that isn't doing much either.
A dry solder joint can have a similiar effect also when things start to warm up.


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## PJS (Nov 14, 2020)

If the pot measures an appropriate change in resistance outside the circuit, but no change when it is in the circuit, then it sounds to me as if something else nearby is shorting out near the pot and causing the lack of measured change when you turn the pot.


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## music6000 (Nov 15, 2020)

PJS said:


> If the pot measures an appropriate change in resistance outside the circuit, but no change when it is in the circuit, then it sounds to me as if something else nearby is shorting out near the pot and causing the lack of measured change when you turn the pot.


Or the Trace is damaged!


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## TSReppe (Nov 22, 2020)

Happy to announce that this pedal has been fixed! I put a jumper from pin 5 to 7 on ic4 and now it doesn’t die and the bass pot works(its now a linear instead of rev log pot so it reacts all wrong, but that I can live with at least for now).

Thank you all for your help. Especially Music6000! I really appreciate it.


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## music6000 (Nov 22, 2020)

I dont take credit for something I didn't & would not have advised,  ie Jumper from pin 5 to pin 7 on IC4!


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## TSReppe (Nov 22, 2020)

music6000 said:


> I dont take credit for something I didn't & would not have advised,  ie Jumper from 5 to 7!


That’s fine, but I still appreciate the effort you put into trying to help. That was my point ?


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