# Anybody else think it's a bit disingenuous to sell Spin FV-1 pedals without mentioning that it's a DSP?



## bengarland (Oct 8, 2020)

(general question, not PedalPCB specific)

Does anybody else think it's a bit disingenuous to sell Spin FV-1 pedals without mentioning that it's a DSP?

I kinda do. And I don't have anything against DSP (I looooove my Eventide H9). But if it's digital, say so!

I was bit by this a couple years ago when Keeley released a "special" line of limited edition pedals (the "X" series). Back then I didn't know that nearly all of their pedals are Spin DSP so really the only difference is whatever algo they load onto the chip. So I believed the marketing hype that they developed this "special" series that were different / improved versions of some of their other pedals. For example, one of the pedals was a combination of Chorus, Flange, and Phaser but I don't think it was any different than the exact same algorithms that they use on their existing pedals -- they just put all 3 on one pedal, instead of having Chorus paired with Rotary and Vibrato or whatever.

Now it seems JHS has done the same thing with their new "3 Series". The promo video shows the internals for a split second and they look almost exactly like the inside of a Keeley pedal. Plus the config is 3 knobs + toggle which is a dead giveaway that it's Spin FV-1. But in the video they make NO mention that a DSP is what's actually inside. I think for a lot of people, the assumption is that pedals are analog unless they explicitly state that they're digital or a part of the pedal interface has digital controls (like a numerical LED display or a screen).

Is this being less than truthful by not explicitly stating out front that a pedal is digital?


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## HamishR (Oct 8, 2020)

No. I wouldn't assume a pedal with delays choruses etc was analog.  Why would I? Rather, I'd be surprised if it wasn't.


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## Dali (Oct 8, 2020)

I don't think so.

"Normal" human beings don't care what's inside their pedals. Some will see the word "germanium" in the description and they will feel it's a VERY special and elitist item to own...

I'm also a guy that don't buy vinyls anymore. You can throw away my opinion.


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## Barry (Oct 8, 2020)

If it has the sound I'm looking for, don't really care what's under the hood


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## Mcknib (Oct 8, 2020)

Most folks that don't do electronics wouldn't probably know or bother what DSP or germanium etc is they hear it or hear about it, they try it, they like it, they buy it 

If I'm spending a fair whack on anything I check it out regardless of hype before I part with my hard earned 

I'd be more concerned if the person I bought it off didn't buy vinyl anymore I mean that's just not right is it?


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## Nostradoomus (Oct 8, 2020)

I like digital effects AND vinyl. /crosses arms at the back of the room


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## untamedfrontier (Oct 8, 2020)

I think for anything that is Reverb/Delay/Chorus unless they explicitly state that it is Analog, I'm assuming that it is digital.

Maybe a little more transparency if effects are FV-1 (or similar DSP chip) based would be nice to know ahead of time, but I think I'd only be upset if someone said their pedal was "All-analog" and then turns out to be DSP


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## Mcknib (Oct 8, 2020)

Nostradoomus said:


> I like digital effects AND vinyl. /crosses arms at the back of the room


Whilst smoking a pipe?

Meerschaum obviously
Works for me


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## SYLV9ST9R (Oct 8, 2020)

Especially since working at home with the current situation, I find myself listening to vinyl, cassettes, CDs, and mp3s. I also enjoy digital and analog effects. Can't we just all get along?  ?♥️

Edit: corrected after @Nostradoomus snarky remark.


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## Nostradoomus (Oct 8, 2020)

Only when people realize the plural of vinyl is vinyl. /crosses arms harder


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## Mcknib (Oct 8, 2020)

Nostradoomus said:


> Only when people realize the plural of vinyl is vinyl. /crosses arms harder


Shit! I'm getting a bigger pipe......

Meerschaum obviously!


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## zgrav (Oct 8, 2020)

Nostradoomus said:


> Only when people realize the plural of vinyl is vinyl. /crosses arms harder


except when talking about the Divinyls...


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## Dali (Oct 8, 2020)

Nostradoomus said:


> Only when people realize the plural of vinyl is vinyl. /crosses arms harder


Well, let' see how is your level of French language then...  

Spoiler: it's vinyle and plural is *vinyles* in French.


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## p_wats (Oct 8, 2020)

Dali said:


> Well, let' see how is your level of French language then...
> 
> Spoiler: it's vinyle and plural is *vinyles* in French.


But at least in French you wouldn't pronounce the 's'...


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## SYLV9ST9R (Oct 8, 2020)

Dali said:


> Well, let' see how is your level of French language then...
> 
> Spoiler: it's vinyle and plural is *vinyles* in French.


Didn't want to get into a language war...


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## Nostradoomus (Oct 8, 2020)

I was in French immersion for part of my elementary education! I am Canadian after all.


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## Harry Klippton (Oct 8, 2020)

Not as disingenuous as saying "handmade in Brooklyn" and then it's SMD with the worst soldering on the pots I've ever seen in my life. And $300


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## Dreamlands (Oct 8, 2020)

I only skipped around the video "In Depth Look at the NEW JHS 3 Series" on youtube, but noticed he says at around 21:15 "it's a digital reverb".

That said, I trust your take that he's not underscoring this point with each of the pedals in question.

I suspect it's not intentional as much as it is a perhaps unwarranted assumption on his part that we, the consumer, already have a good idea of what's what.


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## Danbieranowski (Oct 8, 2020)

While I can understand the potential disappointment in knowing that a pedal is the exact same set of components as another pedal, just with different eeprom, I also recognize that coding takes time, effort, research, and tons of talent in its own right. So if a circuit sounds great, and just needs different eeprom, the effort that went into that is probably significantly more than most would recognize up front.


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## Gordo (Oct 8, 2020)

^^agreed

Plus I don't care if it coal-fired, if it sounds good, it IS good.


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## Robert (Oct 8, 2020)

Analog reverb is nowhere near as much fun as digital reverb.   ? 

I think these days anything that isn't dirt should be assumed to be digital until proven otherwise.   There isn't a whole lot of transparency in the pedal world, think how many "brand new innovative" designs there are that turn out to just be another 'Screamer or 'Muff....

The one time when I do think it's a little shady is when a product is clearly marketed as a reproduction of a particular vintage analog unit, but turns out to be digital.   One builder in particular does this with a CE-1 "reproduction" ...


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## mjh36 (Oct 8, 2020)

Slight offshoot, but the whole "designed in" or "engineered in" gets thrown around, and it's kinda the same tactic. I've been lookin at amps and you gotta zoom in real close on pictures to see if it's made in China or vietnam. And I've been disappointed in some brands that I had admired.


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## caiofilipini (Oct 9, 2020)

To be fair, they did a Sweetwater live yesterday where Josh showed the schematics (as others have already pointed out, here or in a different thread), and he did mention that the delay, reverb and chorus were digital AND based on the FV-1.

He also mentioned all three share the exact same PCB, and that's part of the reason why they're able to sell at $99.


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## HamishR (Oct 9, 2020)

I care if it's coal fired! Although unfortunately where I live I don't get a choice. All my gear is coal fired unless I use a battery. But I wish it wasn't.  Maybe I can pretend to myself that my guitar stuff only works off the solar panels we have on our roof. Yeah - that's it.

I only use solar powered pedals. And FWIW when my son was very little he could produce enormous anal logs. Of course when they become teenagers they get a lot more digital.


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## Gordo (Oct 9, 2020)

Ha!


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## Chas Grant (Oct 9, 2020)

In this day and age, I assume most effects, besides overdrive/distortion, are digital. BBD chips are harder to get and pricey, plus the number of components in them is crazy. Digital for the most parts is cheaper, fewer parts that are more readily available. From a business standpoint digital is the way to go.


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## mdc (Oct 12, 2020)

HamishR said:


> I care if it's coal fired! Although unfortunately where I live I don't get a choice. All my gear is coal fired unless I use a battery. But I wish it wasn't.  Maybe I can pretend to myself that my guitar stuff only works off the solar panels we have on our roof. Yeah - that's it.
> 
> I only use solar powered pedals. And FWIW when my son was very little he could produce enormous anal logs. Of course when they become teenagers they get a lot more digital.


To the OPs point about them looking like Keeley pedals on the inside, it's a safe bet that Keeley designed them for JHS. From what I understand, he/his team have done several for Josh Co.


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## vigilante398 (Oct 12, 2020)

If there's a reverb in a 1590B, you shouldn't need to be told it's digital.


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## Elktronics (Oct 12, 2020)

mdc said:


> To the OPs point about them looking like Keeley pedals on the inside, it's a safe bet that Keeley designed them for JHS. From what I understand, he/his team have done several for Josh Co.


I think in this instance he mentioned they were designed by someone on his team named Josh. Not him, but another guy at JHS, rather than keeley. 

I have a feeling that Cusack is doing the guts for these though.


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## phi1 (Oct 12, 2020)

My first question when I saw that was not analog or digital (I assumed some type of digital). Rather I wondered full on dsp like fv-1 or pt2399 chip for delay and chorus approximation and belton brick (which is made using pt2399s). Not surprised it’s FV-1 since it has modes. And it’s the easiest dsp platform for small companies to get started with.

The info would be informative up front as part of the marketing since most people find the belton brick and pt2399 chips have their own distinct flavor, not quite analog, but different than most dsp. In the end though, he seems pretty forthcoming about this series of pedals.


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## mdc (Oct 12, 2020)

I think they're also probably being marketed to a player who specifically *doesn't* have those particular questions.


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