# 2 Loop Switcher with Flip-Flop? (Quartermaster 2)



## Big Monk (May 13, 2022)

Can anyone point me in the direction of a schematic similar to the Quartermaster 2 with the flip flop switching?


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## benny_profane (May 13, 2022)

You can accomplish that using the control pads on the intelligent relay bypass.


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## mdc (May 14, 2022)

Are you specifically looking for a relay-based thing, or do you just want an A/B w/ on/off? That's pretty straightforward with mechanical switches.


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## Big Monk (May 14, 2022)

mdc said:


> Are you specifically looking for a relay-based thing, or do you just want an A/B w/ on/off? That's pretty straightforward with mechanical switches.



I want the flip-flop feature mostly.


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## fig (May 14, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> I want the flip-flop feature mostly.


Flip-flops with white socks? You’ve been in Daytona too long. I tried to warn you. 
Check out St. Augustine if you have time. It’s a part of FL that doesn’t suck as much.


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## Big Monk (May 14, 2022)

fig said:


> Flip-flops with white socks? You’ve been in Daytona too long. I tried to warn you.
> Check out St. Augustine if you have time. It’s a part of FL that doesn’t suck as much.



We always go to St. A, but this trip we did not have time. We like to budget a whole day there when we do go.


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## Robert (May 14, 2022)

You'll need a microcontroller for "radio button" style switching.

The Intelligent Relay Bypass module does it, if this is what you mean.  (you'd need two)





I'm working on a more advanced version of the Dual Effects Loop if you aren't in a tremendous rush... I'm just waiting on more relays to arrive.

It'll do this and more.


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## Big Monk (May 14, 2022)

Robert said:


> You'll need a microcontroller for "radio button" style switching.
> 
> The Intelligent Relay Bypass module does it, if this is what you mean.  (you'd need two)
> 
> ...



I’ll wait…

Long game bro…😉


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## Robert (May 14, 2022)

If you _just_ want the radio button functionality (or want to add it into an existing build) the Intelligent modules have you covered and can handle as many loops as you need, but if you're building a dual loop switch anyway the new project will cover a lot more ground (when/if needed).


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## mdc (May 14, 2022)




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## mdc (May 14, 2022)

I think that should work for a flip-flop a/b with global on/off.
Black is ground - I'd star ground it just in case there are loops somewhere.


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## Big Monk (May 14, 2022)

Since I’m gearing up for a new pedalboard build, my switching desires are as follows:

1.) Radio/Flip-Flip Loop for 2 Fuzzes
2.) Radio/Flip-Flop Loop for my Swirlies (Phase/Vibe)
3.) Order Switcher to move Fuzz before Wah and Swirly after Fuzz
4.) Traditional Loop with flip-flop AND A+B option for my 2 Drive Slots. I’ve got the Kliche Mini bug again and I’m building a single BB style project. 
5.) Radio/Flip-Flop Loop for my Mod pedals
6.) Lastly, I’d want a loop for my El-Cap and EP Preamp where I could have the preamp or El-Cap alone but default to to both on when I click the switch.


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## mdc (May 14, 2022)

Maybe just get an ES-8


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## Big Monk (May 14, 2022)

mdc said:


> Maybe just get an ES-8



I don’t want a programmable looper. Just localized loops.

I think I can accomplish my whole list with small loops using the PPCB utility boards.


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## giovanni (May 14, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> I don’t want a programmable looper. Just localized loops.


Can you make a diagram? It sounds like you have a lot of features and it would be easier to help with the design.


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## Big Monk (May 14, 2022)

giovanni said:


> Can you make a diagram? It sounds like you have a lot of features and it would be easier to help with the design.



Yup. I’m going to draw things up when I get back from Vacation. 

It’s pretty simple:

1.) There will be 2 strictly Radio/Flip-Flop Loops: one for Phase/Vibe and one for Fuzzes

2.) There will be 1 A or B/A+B with Radio/Flip-Flop capability: I want this loop for 2 drives. I’d like to be able to flip flop them and add them. 

3.) There will be 1 loop for my El-Cap and EP Preamp: I want this to default to both on and have them both selectable. 

4.) Last one is an order switcher that works with the fuzz loop and swirly loop to move the fuzz before the wah and swirly. Basically to give me fuzz into wah tones and fuzz into phase/Vibe tones.


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## Feral Feline (May 14, 2022)

MDC's diagram could be modded to have separate on/off stompers for each loop. Then you'd have master bypass for both loops, on/off for each loop and the order switcher — just stick in a couple of DPDT stomps on the output paths of each channel (or SPDT toggles if you prefer and don't need LEDs, DPDT toggles if you still want LEDs).


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## Big Monk (May 14, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> MDC's diagram could be modded to have separate on/off stompers for each loop. Then you'd have master bypass for both loops, on/off for each loop and the order switcher — just stick in a couple of DPDT stomps on the output paths of each channel (or SPDT toggles if you prefer and don't need LEDs, DPDT toggles if you still want LEDs).



I think you need the microcontroller and relays though to do the flip flops.

EDIT: The flip flops are straight forwards I think with the DPDT intelligent bypass boards. 

The order switcher is all mechanical so that’s easy. 

I’ll probably have to wait for the new switcher for the A+B/A or B/flip-flop function for my drives. 

Also, the default ON/A+B/A or B for my El-Cap and EP Preamp will have to wait for the new switcher. 

Which is all fine because if I standardize around 1590B for loop/Switch boxes, I can build the new board out ahead of all of it. 

As far as the capability I need, does my description above sound about right @PedalPCB?

Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas guys.


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## mdc (May 14, 2022)

I tried to diagram it out a few months ago and I think I got it correct, but I'm 90% sure you can do flip-flop A or B / A into B with two switches.





I didn't actually build it, but if it does work It'd be easy enough add bypass around that on a third switch.


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## mdc (May 14, 2022)

I mean relays are probably easier at that point, but it was a fun logic puzzle.


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## Feral Feline (May 15, 2022)

To me "Flip-Flop" indicates order reversal, A>B and B>A.

After following the signal path in MDC's diagram, I see it does A or B and A > B — just as MDC said, but the "flip-flop" in the description threw me.

I mention it just in case somebody is looking for order reversal and doesn't bother to suss out the signal paths in the diagram.

I definitely want to try building it, I love utility stuff and this one's dadburned useful! Many thanks @mdc for posting your diagram.


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## Big Monk (May 15, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> To me "Flip-Flop" indicates order reversal, A>B and B>A.
> 
> After following the signal path in MDC's diagram, I see it does A or B and A > B — just as MDC said, but the "flip-flop" in the description threw me.
> 
> ...



I think of flip flop as when A is turned on B turns off.


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## mdc (May 15, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> I think of flip flop as when A is turned on B turns off.


That's what I assumed - maybe gig rig call it "ping pong"?


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## mdc (May 15, 2022)

Also, looking at it again, the link between the two "from B" connections is redundant... or keep the link and get rid of one of the wires. 
Sorry to hijack!!


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## Big Monk (Jun 11, 2022)

Robert said:


> You'll need a microcontroller for "radio button" style switching.
> 
> The Intelligent Relay Bypass module does it, if this is what you mean.  (you'd need two)
> 
> ...



Do you have a rudimentary wiring diagram for the setup in the video?


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## Robert (Jun 11, 2022)

Hmmm, I'm not sure, but it's really straightforward...

You start by wiring up a 3-in-1 like you normally would, each PCB with it's own relay bypass board, daisy-chained together in series.

Then connect all three modules together by the "CTRL" pads.


Now set all of the modules to channel switching mode and you're done.


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## Big Monk (Jun 11, 2022)

Robert said:


> Hmmm, I'm not sure, but it's really straightforward...
> 
> You start by wiring up a 3-in-1 like you normally would, each PCB with it's own relay bypass board, daisy-chained together in series.
> 
> ...



The possibilities are making my brain go a mile a minute.


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## Feral Feline (Jun 12, 2022)

Then after you've set all the modules to channel-switching mode, and it's all working, then you decide which effect can go at the very end or the very beginning and put it in Channel A of a flip-flop and the other two go in Channel B of the flip-flop opposite A as well as the latter two having their own flip-flop order switcher channels...


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## Big Monk (Jun 12, 2022)

So if I’m seeing and comprehending this correctly, if I were to make a bypass loop out of these:

1.) Input of the Loop goes to Jack In
2.) In/Out get connected to Send/Return Jacks
3.) Out of the loop goes to the Jack Out, unless I’m connecting more loops which means Jack Out goes Jack In of the next loop. 

And then use the control pads in the proper configuration for the require modes.


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## Big Monk (Jun 12, 2022)

So I think if sussed out the possibilities with my Joyo switcher triggers and the standard modes of the IRB.

Now I’m trying to puzzle out if there is a possible way to turn an effect on and another off with a single trigger input. Looking over the schematic, I don’t believe this to be possible.


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## Feral Feline (Jun 12, 2022)

I know turning off one loop/effect and turning on another loop/effect can be done with one stomp. I'm just not sure if the PPCB intellgent switcher can be set up for that — I vaguely recall that it can, similar to "radio-button" mode of THCustoms' dealio.


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## Big Monk (Jun 13, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> I know turning off one loop/effect and turning on another loop/effect can be done with one stomp. I'm just not sure if the PPCB intellgent switcher can be set up for that — I vaguely recall that it can, similar to "radio-button" mode of THCustoms' dealio.



I think you hit it on the head. The IRB can do radio/flip-flop with 2 switches and 2 boards but for a single footswitch or trigger output to flip-flop them, I think you'd need to be able to configure the board to have the relays in opposite states, i.e. one normally opened and one normally closed so that a single trigger or footswitch changed their states simultaneously.

So I think I may have to give up on that idea. At least from the perspective of doing automatic switching.


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