# Fuzz War V1 Question (Transister-related)…



## Coda (Nov 14, 2022)

Are the transistors on the PCB silkscreen already flipped, or should I flip them?…


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## Robert (Nov 16, 2022)

Well.... they're upside down like the original. (Collector to ground)


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## music6000 (Nov 16, 2022)

Coda said:


> Are the transistors on the PCB silkscreen already flipped, or should I flip them?…


VCC going to Emitter instead of Collector, Can cause Confusion!


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## Coda (Nov 16, 2022)

Robert said:


> Well.... they're upside down like the original. (Collector to ground)





music6000 said:


> VCC going to Emitter instead of Collector, Can cause Confusion!
> 
> 
> View attachment 36175



Yea, that’s what I figured out from the schematic, I just wanted to double check. I built the circuit and it sounds…rough. Of course. Of course that’s just par for the course with this circuit…


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## Robert (Nov 16, 2022)

Alright.... Let's put an end to this mystery.





I'll verify the trace, all values, and will measure the parameters of all of the transistors.

This has gone on long enough.


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## Harry Klippton (Nov 16, 2022)

Hooray! I had a DBA apocalypse that I bought "broken" for very cheap. I was absolutely disgusted with the build quality, fixed it, and sold it off for a nice price. But I miss the fuzz war setting


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## GizzWizzKing (Nov 16, 2022)

I really enjoy mine. just took some playing with the transistors to negate weird blooming sounds or strange attack. and combing through a few forums to check which cap values to use in one or another locations. It is kinda ridiculous how many threads there are on this one pedal.


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## Robert (Nov 16, 2022)

I feel like the original trace and component values are _probably_ correct, but I've seen a couple different versions and the lines are a bit blurred.

This way we'll have a _definitive_ set of component values and transistor specs to use as a baseline.


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## cdwillis (Nov 16, 2022)

A while back I looked into building one on stripboard and the v1 layout basically disappeared because people were having an impossible time trying to bias the transistors or something. It'll be interesting to see how it's actually laid out


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## Chuck D. Bones (Nov 16, 2022)

The transistors in that circuit are operated in "reverse-beta" mode.  The HFE (current gain) is very low, like around 10.  The voltage gain can still be very high.


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## ColorMeBaddFann (Dec 15, 2022)

Robert said:


> Alright.... Let's put an end to this mystery.
> 
> View attachment 36180
> 
> ...


After seeing this post, I opened up the V1 I picked up cheap locally some years back (Ty Segall/Ohsees fan here). At the time didn't know there was a more recent 3-knob Muff based variant of the Fuzz War. Expected to see 7 transistors, but found only 4... Perhaps this is some sort of v1.5 or transition version with the two pots and one trimmer? Did yours end up being the 7 transistor model?


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## Robert (Dec 15, 2022)

Well now _that's_ interesting.... I haven't had a chance to look inside mine yet, but now my curiosity is through the roof. 

Could you possibly snap a head-on pic of both sides of the PCB?


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## ColorMeBaddFann (Dec 15, 2022)

Sorry, the camera on this phone isn't great. Can never seem to fully remove the glare. And that is another partially obscured 2n5088 in the left-center area.

Also noticed one like it on Reverb (https://reverb.com/item/59025978-death-by-audio-fuzz-war-v1-2011?bk=) that has a similar looking rear of the PCB. Perhaps all of them around this time were this in-between variant?


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## Feral Feline (Dec 15, 2022)

I played a late model recently, used-stock at L&M, well a month or so ago. Liked it enough to research the circuit, but not enough to buy the pedal. There was some info I came across and I was able to come up with a rough time-line of the changes, but not sure if I wrote it down...


Sorry, Nope!

Here’s the best I could get given I wasn’t buying it…


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## Harry Klippton (Dec 15, 2022)

Man every time I see the insides of a DBA pedal I'm like 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢


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## GizzWizzKing (Dec 15, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> Man every time I see the insides of a DBA pedal I'm like 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢


But given the aesthetic of the outside.... I wouldnt expect a work of art inside


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## Harry Klippton (Dec 15, 2022)

GizzWizzKing said:


> But given the aesthetic of the outside.... I wouldnt expect a work of art inside


You're right, the outside is awful too


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## Chuck D. Bones (Dec 17, 2022)

That has got to be one of the most amateurish board designs I have seen in a long, long time.

Who's going to trace it?


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## Robert (Dec 17, 2022)

I'll be on it shortly,  turns out mine is the same version....    

I suspect this is going to be the same as the current 3-knob version, just with a trim pot instead of a "Fuzz" control....

This is unfortunately not the version I _wanted_ to trace.


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## Big Monk (Dec 17, 2022)

What’s up with the fucking GIGANTIC solder pads for the pots and switch?


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## manfesto (Dec 18, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> What’s up with the fucking GIGANTIC solder pads for the pots and switch?


All that maneuverability and they still can’t get the PCB perfectly centered.

(Honestly what I find kinda funny is having two 24mm pots and one 16mm one but all the same value like do DBA not have an accountant who’s noticed the opportunity to streamline the BOM and save some money maybe)


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## Chuck D. Bones (Dec 18, 2022)

LoL.  They don't even have a proper board designer, why would they have an accountant?


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## fig (Dec 18, 2022)

Whew...glad I don't own DBA...

Wait, they sell a lot of pedals...

I'm torn. 😕


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## Robert (Dec 18, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> What’s up with the fucking GIGANTIC solder pads for the pots and switch?



It looks sloppy but it probably makes removal pretty dang easy.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Dec 18, 2022)

fig said:


> Whew...glad I don't own DBA...
> 
> Wait, they sell a lot of pedals...
> 
> I'm torn. 😕


Consider these questions:
1.  What is their production yield?  number that pass final test / number built
2.  How many warranty returns do they get?


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## jesuscrisp (Dec 18, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Consider these questions:
> 1.  What is their production yield?  number that pass final test / number built
> 2.  How many warranty returns do they get?


The fun thing about noisy doom pedals is that you can always claim they are actually supposed to sound like shit, regardless of broken or not. They just have to produce some sort of sound.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Dec 18, 2022)

Explains why EQD makes so many doom pedals.


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## jesuscrisp (Dec 18, 2022)

1st run of Erupters allegedly had the transformer wired so it didn't work as a pickup simulator. Go figure.


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## Feral Feline (Dec 18, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> What’s up with the fucking GIGANTIC solder pads for the pots and switch?




My immediate thought was "That's going to fail", as the pots are just tacked in with a wee dollop of solder. Set your board down with a smack or stomp on the pedal roughly even just a few times and I can foresee the solder crackin'...


Oh, and why would you hire/want a board-designer or an accountant when the marketing team costs so much but does such a great job?


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## Laundryroom David (Dec 18, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> Oh, and why would you hire/want a board-designer or an accountant when the marketing team costs so much but does such a great job?


Nail. Head. Hit.


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## mdc (Dec 19, 2022)

Robert said:


> It looks sloppy but it probably makes removal pretty dang easy.


It just looks like it was made to fit either lug or pcb style pots.


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## Coda (Dec 19, 2022)

mdc said:


> It just looks like it was made to fit either lug or pcb style pots.



That sort of "planned operation" is a little counter to the whole DBA gimmick...


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