# Is it just me or is the Simulcast kinda bright?



## HamishR (Sep 29, 2021)

Just finished this pedal today. I like it! But I wish it had a treble roll-off tone pot. I spent an hour or two auditioning Ge transistors, and it seems to prefer slightly higher hfes. The highest gain tranny I had which worked was a Russian MP20 at around 90 and it sounds pretty good. Actually all of the MP20s sounded good but the lower the gain got the brighter the tone. I also tried some other "better quality" Ges (can't remember the numbers) but they all sucked.

But even with the good transistors it's still a little crisper (brighter) than I'd like. It's a good sound and I like how it feels to play through, but maybe I'll have to stick a cap to ground on the output! Is it just mine or do they all sound quite bright?  And what hfe on the Ge transistors are you fellas using?


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## manfesto (Sep 29, 2021)

I use MP20s with hfes around 50-60 (I bought 50 in two batches of 25 and *all* of them landed in this range with almost no leakage - I was shocked), since apparently that's what Hudson's using now. I don't personally think it's overly bright but I can see how it could be for different setups (especially at 27V).

It must be a relatively common complaint, though, because there does exist a variant of the Broadcast Dual Footswitch with a hi-cut switch:









						Hudson Electronics x Regent Sounds Broadcast Dual F/Switch Hi - Cut Toggle Ltd Sand Yellow
					

We listened, we talked, Hudson built! The all-new Hudson Electronics Dual Broadcast with mini High-Cut toggle available exclusively at Regent Sounds.




					www.regentsounds.com
				




But afaik, nobody's taken the back off of one and see what value cap is being inserted where in the circuit.


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## HamishR (Sep 29, 2021)

A friend of mine who has recommended this pedal to me many times is bringing his pedal around soon so that we can A/B them. Interesting to know that the hfe is around 50-60. Maybe the hfe is not the main reason for the brightness - I'm sure things like leakage play a role too. I suspect that my hfe90 transistor is just the best sounding one of my lot.

As with your experience, my bag of MP20s has been fantastic. Not one has sounded bad, unlike other, "better" Ge transistors I have which have all sounded badly biased.

I might just try a 22nF cap across pins 1 and 2 of the volume pot and see how that sounds...  Thanks for your input!


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## daeg (Sep 29, 2021)

I'm a guy who likes bright but the Broadcast has just been painfully bright in every demo I've heard.

Still on the fence about building one to try it out.


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## HamishR (Sep 29, 2021)

I think I'm incredibly lucky to have the hearing I do, and I think I may have more high-end hearing than most of my guitar-playing friends. When they pick up my guitar they often turn the treble up. Maybe I just like a darker sound?

But rolling a little high end off a pedal's sound must be one of the simplest things we can do?


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## daeg (Sep 30, 2021)

HamishR said:


> I think I'm incredibly lucky to have the hearing I do, and I think I may have more high-end hearing than most of my guitar-playing friends. When they pick up my guitar they often turn the treble up. Maybe I just like a darker sound?


I'm the opposite. I keep liking the 'too bright' gear, which makes me think I might have some high-frequency hearing loss.


HamishR said:


> I might just try a 22nF cap across pins 1 and 2 of the volume pot and see how that sounds...  Thanks for your input!


So a treble-bleed cap but the opposite. What size cap are you thinking? 2n2 or so?


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## HamishR (Sep 30, 2021)

Yeah, a treble snubber. I just tried a 22nF and a 10nF and they did work but lost some of the immediacy of the sound. Maybe in a band setting it would sound fine. I mean I could add a pot there too but I can't be bothered just now.


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## Feral Feline (Sep 30, 2021)

Perhaps try the Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control


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## HamishR (Sep 30, 2021)

I'm beginning to think it may not be worth it. I have a few ODs I love!


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## bowanderror (Sep 30, 2021)

HamishR said:


> I think I'm incredibly lucky to have the hearing I do, and I think I may have more high-end hearing than most of my guitar-playing friends. When they pick up my guitar they often turn the treble up. Maybe I just like a darker sound?
> 
> But rolling a little high end off a pedal's sound must be one of the simplest things we can do?


I've had the same experience! Always played a Strat, but never really used the bridge pickup (even on my baritone). I always feel like I need to roll off highs on my guitar or pedal tone controls compared to "noon". I have a Jaguar as well, but it turns out I REALLY don't like it.

Funnily enough, I've had the same "too bright" issue on my Broadcast clone as well. I believe I put a higher gain NTE-102A in there, which tested ~260 hFE & Iceo 240uA - but using my cheapo TC-1 multifunction tester. I have a ton of MP42B (50-7- hFE) & GT308V (70-90 hFE) that I might have to try. I mostly keep it on the lowest gain switch setting, so hopefully that will smooth out the sound.


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## daeg (Sep 30, 2021)

Now I'm tempted to build one.

I'm reading claims online that as gain is turned up, the treble is cut. I am doubtful of this, but I think I heard someone at DIYSB once say that parasitic capacitance (ie miller effect) goes up as gain is increased. Looking at the schematic, I'm struggling to understand how the Gain control works.


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## daeg (Sep 30, 2021)

Feral Feline said:


> Perhaps try the Stupidly Wonderful Tone Control


R14 would be a good candidate.

Something like:

Replace R14 with 10k trimpot
Trimpot wiper goes to 10n cap
10n cap goes to ground
Optional: replace R15 with 21k resistor to maintain similar output volume.


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## ryland (Sep 30, 2021)

I have a pretty large stash of GE transistors that I’ve collected over the decades of building effects.  I auditioned a bunch in the broadcast that I built.  Some were waaaay too bright (usually the American made ones) and some were much darker and more mellow sounding (UK brands).  That transistor has a lot to do with how bright this pedal is.


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## Markus Kersius (Sep 30, 2021)

I build the comparable duocast and tried every transistor I could find in my parts drawers.
Had 2 favourite: AC188 and a GC511.
Never noticed it to be too bright though.
So maybe higher gain transistors help to tame high end?


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## daeg (Sep 30, 2021)

Markus Kersius said:


> So maybe higher gain transistors help to tame high end?


I believe that's true.

Someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that the Miller effect increases with Gain. When people take Germanium Fuzz designs and convert them to Silicon they often put a small cap across the Base and Collector to mimic the capacitance / high-frequency rolloff that Germanium transistors are known for.


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## bowanderror (Sep 30, 2021)

daeg said:


> Now I'm tempted to build one.
> 
> I'm reading claims online that as gain is turned up, the treble is cut. I am doubtful of this, but I think I heard someone at DIYSB once say that parasitic capacitance (ie miller effect) goes up as gain is increased. Looking at the schematic, I'm struggling to understand how the Gain control works.


That would actually make some sense as you're forcing more signal through the 1n cap down to ground when the gain control is turned up. You're allowing signal to bypass it when turning the gain down.





I believe the Gain control is working as a feedback control.


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## daeg (Sep 30, 2021)

bowanderror said:


> I believe the Gain control is working as a feedback control.


Probably. I don't know enough to tell whether Q2 is inverting or not. If it's non-inverting then there would be a negative feedback path.

So in the High-Gain position, the negative feedback path would be (mostly) eliminated, and the Q1 Emitter would be (mostly) grounded, both bumping the Q1 gain up a good deal.

I'm not a vintage fuzz guy, but this circuit has a unique topology and has caught my interest.


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## daeg (Sep 30, 2021)

bowanderror said:


> That would actually make some sense as you're forcing more signal through the 1n cap down to ground when the gain control is turned up. You're allowing signal to bypass it when turning the gain down.


The parasitic capacitance is actually at the Collector-Base Junction of the transistor, from what I understand. It allows high-frequencies to pass back into the Base, creating Negative Feedback and thereby only attenuating Treble. The effect increases with gain due to some physics at the semiconductor level that are totally beyond me. Guitarists hear it as "wow that fuzz isn't too ear piercing".

Miller Effect


> As most amplifiers are inverting, the effective capacitance at their inputs is increased due to the Miller effect. This can reduce the bandwidth of the amplifier, restricting its range of operation to lower frequencies. The tiny junction and stray capacitances between the base and collector terminals of a Darlington transistor, for example, may be drastically i*ncreased by the Miller effects due to its high gain, lowering the high frequency response of the device*.


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## HamishR (Sep 30, 2021)

I don't understand half of this technical discussion but as a player I find there is something really appealing about how this pedal responds to playing. It's easy to make it sound ugly but if you are careful it can sound beautiful, and responds in a way unlike any other overdrive type pedal I have used. Played gently with gain around halfway up it's not so bright, but once you dig in it becomes annoyingly bright. Which seems kinda contrary to what you fellas are saying but maybe I'm getting gain levels and input levels confused.


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## daeg (Oct 2, 2021)

HamishR said:


> It's easy to make it sound ugly but if you are careful it can sound beautiful, and responds in a way unlike any other overdrive type pedal I have used.


Now I've got to build one.

Since I started using Vox amps I haven't liked fuzzes, but this one is an interesting crossover with an original topology. I can't say I'm blown away when listening to Youtube demos, but the guitarist demoing it always seems to be in a state of bliss.

When the boards are back in stock I'll get a build going and try a couple of different methods off treble attenuation.


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## HamishR (Oct 3, 2021)

Yeah the demos I've heard have made it sound awful. It is a weird one, but can make some great sounds. I'm just not sure of it's worth the effort! Some pedals sound great to me one day, terrible the next.

And Vox amps are one of those things that all of my player friends love but don't work for me. Badcats do and they're often the same circuit just filtered differently. In fact Badcat amps influenced the way I build my Fender tweed amps. The huge power transformers compared to a Vox are one of the reasons they sound so different. I applied that logic to my tweed amps and found that it has the same result - a tighter, bigger low end.


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## daeg (Oct 11, 2021)

HamishR said:


> And Vox amps are one of those things that all of my player friends love but don't work for me. Badcats do and they're often the same circuit just filtered differently. In fact Badcat amps influenced the way I build my Fender tweed amps. The huge power transformers compared to a Vox are one of the reasons they sound so different. I applied that logic to my tweed amps and found that it has the same result - a tighter, bigger low end.


Somewhere along the way I found that I liked playing spongy cathode biased amps at cleanish settings, so the Vox ACs and the Tweed Deluxe do the trick for me. They tend to like overdrives that are just as messy as they are, so the Broadcast might be a good pairing.

Does anyone know when the Simulcast PCB's will be back in stock? If it's going to be months and months I'll just build the thing on vero.


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## caiofilipini (Oct 12, 2021)

daeg said:


> Does anyone know when the Simulcast PCB's will be back in stock? If it's going to be months and months I'll just build the thing on vero.


Are you in the US? I think I have one I'm probably never going to build, happy to send it your way.


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## daeg (Oct 29, 2021)

Built it. Caiofilipini was kind enough to mail me a PCB.

Playing a low volume late last night, it sounded perfect. Playing at medium volumes today, oh my god, my ears bled. There is an easy fix though.

Silicon Fuzz Faces are notorious for being too bright, and one of the common solutions is to put a tiny cap across Q1. Try this:

Pick a small ceramic capacitor somewhere in the 47pf - 220pf range
Remove Q1 from its socket
Stick the capacitor in the Collector and Base socket holes (left and middle on the Simulcast PCB)
Jam the Transistor back into the socket
Viola, you have a Simulcast without the ear bleed, and no permanent modifications.


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## daeg (Oct 29, 2021)

Here's what it looks like in my build. I'm using a 2n5088 so ignore the transistor orientation. I like bright so a 68pf cap was right for me.


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## daeg (Oct 29, 2021)

I just realized, when I was testing the pedal out last night, I had my guitar plugged directly into it and the treble sounded _just right_. Today, when I found it was _way too brigh_t, it was on my pedalboard, after a buffer.

As you all already know, low input impedance loads your pickups and shaves off some treble. Fuzz Face devotees have been dealing with this for like 5 decades. It sounds right when AC coupled with your Guitar, it sounds wrong when after a buffer. This is all the more reason to add that tiny Miller capacitor between the Collector and Base of Q1.

Like I mentioned a couple posts up, you'll want to experiment with values between 47pf and 220pf. At 10pf, I don't think you'll notice any change, at 47pf, you'll notice it hurts your ears a little bit less, above 220pf you'll start thinking something is missing.


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## HamishR (Oct 30, 2021)

That is such a clever idea. You are (well, verging on) a genius! I will try that.

I've had issues with a Klon buffer before just as you describe. I my case it was a Red Rooster it wrought havoc on. I use so few pedals on my board I really don't need a buffer. Especially as I almost always have at least one pedal going. A tuner, and OD and a delay is it for me for most gigs. Now it's a delay/reverb though - I got a Source Audio Collider.


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## HamishR (Nov 16, 2021)

I finally got around to trying this. I ended up with a 200pF - for now. It has made all the difference. Thanks Mr Daeg - semi-genius for now.  

*Edit* With more time messing with this I have found that 300pF pretty much evens up the treble with bypass. By itself the pedal is a decent overdrive - great tone but still that transistory breakup which sounds a little harsh and crackly at times. Now as a cleanish boost - wow. Best boost tone ever! It has an authority to the sound which is fantastic. Beautiful mids. There's a slight hint of treble booster in there which suits me just fine. It's the sort of thing I could just leave on as the first pedal in the line for the whole gig.


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## daeg (Nov 16, 2021)

Awesome. So glad it worked out.

The Simulcast has found a home on my board as the light overdrive. It's taken the place of the Crowther Hotcake (Aion Anomoly), which was doing the typical light, full-range OD into a Vox Top Boost channel. My impression is that it doesn't compress when you dig into strings like a typical OD, but adds kind of a nice gritty spikeyness instead. Kind of like a Colorsound OD / Power Boost, but without the crackle.

Using this makes me realize that the Hotcake always should have had a low-cut instead of the questionable presence control. At low - medium gain, the Broadcast sounds great to my ears, but I didn't bond with the scuzzy cranked 'mixing console distortion' sounds that the pedal demoers seem to love.

One final tip for anyone who is looking to build this; swap the 'Level' pot for a logarithmic taper, the linear taper just sucks. In mine I used an A50k pot with a 47k resistor across lugs 1 and 3, just _in-case_ the output transformer needs that ~25k load to work some magic. With a Log pot, you'll get unity volume with all knobs at noon (in the Low Gain mode) which I find really nice.


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 12:35 AM)

I know this thread is quite old but just built a simulcast and hoping to tone down the treble.

Tested a few caps between pins 1 and 2 of Volume pot (22nf 10nf 2.2nf) they all seemed to "put a blanket" on the tone.

I'm still not safe with making EE decisions.

Playing around with my Wampler Equator (Parametric EQ) I can tune it properly by taking the 7k point down by about 20% and the 4.8k point down by around 10%. So sounds like 6k ish is the problem freq.

Ideas?


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## harmaes (Wednesday at 1:02 AM)

jhaneyzz said:


> I know this thread is quite old but just built a simulcast and hoping to tone down the treble.
> 
> Tested a few caps between pins 1 and 2 of Volume pot (22nf 10nf 2.2nf) they all seemed to "put a blanket" on the tone.
> 
> ...


Try a lower value cap between say 500 and 1000pf.
I’ve also replaced the germanium transistor with a 2n4033 which makes the response somewhat smoother and more in the direction of the Ariel Posen version.


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 1:09 AM)

and... of course, the one time I DON'T socket the transistor.....

DOH!!!


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 1:10 AM)

You get the 2n4033 from Mouser?


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 1:19 AM)

harmaes said:


> Try a lower value cap between say 500 and 1000pf.
> I’ve also replaced the germanium transistor with a 2n4033 which makes the response somewhat smoother and more in the direction of the Ariel Posen version.


Oooo... a 560pf sounds about right but no good decisions get made after midnight so I'll hold off heating up the soldering iron until tomorrow..

BTW,, is there a calculator or something somewhere that will help me visualize what I'm doing here?


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 1:21 AM)

I am really liking the Broadcast circuit, However I absolutely, positively think there is no reason to pump this thing up to 27 V. My volume is at maybe 2 for unity.


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## harmaes (Wednesday at 1:25 AM)

jhaneyzz said:


> You get the 2n4033 from Mouser?


I’m in the Netherlands so sourced it here.


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## harmaes (Wednesday at 1:30 AM)

jhaneyzz said:


> I am really liking the Broadcast circuit, However I absolutely, positively think there is no reason to pump this thing up to 27 V. My volume is at maybe 2 for unity.


I personally like it at 27v and also above unity to drive the input of pedals afterward or the amp. I use the simulcast as a preamp to play pedals through it.


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## szukalski (Wednesday at 2:37 AM)

jhaneyzz said:


> I know this thread is quite old but just built a simulcast and hoping to tone down the treble.
> 
> Tested a few caps between pins 1 and 2 of Volume pot (22nf 10nf 2.2nf) they all seemed to "put a blanket" on the tone.
> 
> ...


Did you try the Miller capacitor as mentioned in the thread? That was the ultimate solution for OP. 

I do that with treble boosters all the time to tame the treble or high frequency hiss. 

You can use alligator clips across the cap if your transistor has enough legroom.


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## harmaes (Wednesday at 3:10 AM)

szukalski said:


> Did you try the Miller capacitor as mentioned in the thread? That was the ultimate solution for OP.
> 
> I do that with treble boosters all the time to tame the treble or high frequency hiss.
> 
> You can use alligator clips across the cap if your transistor has enough legroom.


I now see that @jhaneyzz mentions putting a cap over the volume pot which indeed should be a Miller cap between collector and base of Q1.
I’ve used a value of 820pf or 1nf and I still keep the tone of the pedal between 0 tot 3 oc depending on the gain switch.


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 3:14 AM)

szukalski said:


> Did you try the Miller capacitor as mentioned in the thread? That was the ultimate solution for OP.
> 
> I do that with treble boosters all the time to tame the treble or high frequency hiss.
> 
> You can use alligator clips across the cap if your transistor has enough legroom.


Read back an put the pieces together. I’ll try that tomorrow, thanks for the nudge.


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 3:15 AM)

Not familiar with the “miller” terminology however.


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## HamishR (Wednesday at 10:09 AM)

I got my 2N4033 transistors from Mouser. I really like 'em.  What I have done now to tame the brightness is simply put a cap across the base and collector of Q2, the Ge transistor or 2N4033 depending on which one you are using. With the 2N4033 I am using an 820pF or 1nF cap. I haven't decided which I prefer. I find I can get very similar treble response to bypassed with anything from 1n5 to 2n2, but I actually prefer just a tiny treble boost. Call me fickle!


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## mybud (Wednesday at 10:09 AM)

'Although the term _Miller effect_ normally refers to capacitance, _any impedance connected between the input and another node exhibiting gain can modify the amplifier input impedance via this effect_. These properties of the Miller effect are generalized in the Miller theorem. The Miller capacitance due to _parasitic capacitance__ between the output and input of active devices like transistors and vacuum tubes_ is a major factor limiting their gain at high frequencies. Miller capacitance was identified in 1920 in triode vacuum tubes by John Milton Miller.'






						Miller effect - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




I assume that this means in plain English that there is interference between successive gain stages in an amplifier circuit which can lower the impedance of the input stage, so adversely affecting the behaviour of the circuit. IOW it's designed to function within a given impedance range and the Miller effect (stray capacitance) messes up the frequency response so that what works on paper in the design doesn't do what it ought to. 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Perhaps a real circuit guru can confirm my layman's understanding in due course.


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 12:42 PM)

harmaes said:


> I now see that @jhaneyzz mentions putting a cap over the volume pot which indeed should be a Miller cap between collector and base of Q1.
> I’ve used a value of 820pf or 1nf and I still keep the tone of the pedal between 0 tot 3 oc depending on the gain switch.



I tried bridging pins C and B of Q1 with a 1nf cap and I can't hear any impact whatsoever.

I am pretty satisfied with a 560pf between pins 1 and 2 of volume however.


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 1:15 PM)

And.... of course I skimmed right over the " I'm using a 2n5088 so ignore the transistor orientation." @daeg mentioned and I was testing the wrong legs.

Still crazy subtle to me. on a whim, I grabbed the next cap in my set which was a whopping 4.7nf and tested it, and it actually sounds pretty good to. my ear. not sure what's up with that.

However, since for some forgotten reason I didn't socket ANYTHING on this build, it's going to be easier to just solder a cap on the volume pot and call it a day.

I'll use more foresight when I j build the Duocast mini as soon as they hit the store.

Thanks for everyone's support.


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## Harry Klippton (Wednesday at 4:39 PM)

@Big Monk is the miller cap proselytizer


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## andare (Wednesday at 5:04 PM)

Harry Klippton said:


> @Big Monk is the miller cap proselytizer


Sorry but I am Latvian orthodox, we don't put caps on collectors.

We believe God created everything to be perfect, silicon transistors with their saintly harshness included.

What's next, using trimmers on Germanium transistors to mess with the Grand Celestial Bias? Not on our watch!


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## Chuck D. Bones (Wednesday at 5:26 PM)

HamishR said:


> I wish it had a treble roll-off tone pot.


I sseem to recall you saying somewhere that you left the transformer out on your Broadcast.  That transformer has limited bandwidth and eats some of the treble content.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Wednesday at 5:29 PM)

Harry Klippton said:


> @Big Monk is the miller cap proselytizer


Miller caps are useful, but they lower the input impedance of the stage at high freq and must be applied carefully.


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 5:31 PM)

How do you do the emoji response tags to posts? On my phone right now and only see the thumbs up.


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## Harry Klippton (Wednesday at 5:32 PM)

jhaneyzz said:


> How do you do the emoji response tags to posts? On my phone right now and only see the thumbs up.


Long press on the button


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 5:33 PM)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Miller caps are useful, but they lower the input impedance of the stage at high freq and must be applied carefully.


So what then would be the Latvian Orthodox alternative to taming the 6kish spike in the Simulcast (without inserting a lead in a solder lug) <inside joke from another thread>


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## Big Monk (Wednesday at 6:39 PM)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Miller caps are useful, but they lower the input impedance of the stage at high freq and must be applied carefully.



I start very small and test until I get the noise reduction and/or frequency supplementation I want.

What I usually do is built the circuit stock and listen to the baseline noise floor. Then I add suppression caps until the noise floor is how I want it.

After that I typically tweak the stock frequency shaping caps down to compensate for the frequency shaping provided by the smaller caps.

I definitely don’t subscribe to generic recommendations like, “Use a 470pF cap from base to collector…”, etc.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Wednesday at 8:03 PM)

jhaneyzz said:


> So what then would be the Latvian Orthodox alternative to taming the 6kish spike in the Simulcast


It may very well be a resonance in the transformer.

You could try removing the transformer and jumpering pins 1 & 6, or experimenting with an R-C damper across R15.  Other than the transformer, I don't see anything in the circuit that wold cause a high freq peak.  Putting a cap on Q2 is a band-aid.


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## jhaneyzz (Wednesday at 9:46 PM)

I'm going to apply the band aid on this one and call it a wrap. at least for now. It's for me so I can always bust it back open if i decide to.

As well, I will definitely be building this again (on the list for the Duocast mini) and will build with sufficient sockets and such this time to allow for a more measured and flexible "finishing process"

I learn a lot of great new things every time and you all are helping with that dramatically.


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## andare (Yesterday at 4:30 AM)

jhaneyzz said:


> So what then would be the Latvian Orthodox alternative to taming the 6kish spike in the Simulcast (without inserting a lead in a solder lug) <inside joke from another thread>


Join our church to find out!

I have one on the bench. Pretty sure I'll try to sell it if it's as bright as everyone says.


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## jhaneyzz (Yesterday at 3:06 PM)

andare said:


> Join our church to find out!
> 
> I have one on the bench. Pretty sure I'll try to sell it if it's as bright as everyone says.


I’ve only ever heard us cork sniffers bring it up.  BTW the bleed cap I installed tamed the treble AND the tiny voices in my head telling me to buy a Schecter guitar went away as well… so… bonus!


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## HamishR (Yesterday at 8:45 PM)

jhaneyzz said:


> I tried bridging pins C and B of Q1 with a 1nf cap and I can't hear any impact whatsoever.
> 
> I am pretty satisfied with a 560pf between pins 1 and 2 of volume however.


I put the cap on Q2 and it works just fine. 1nF sounds good.


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