# TL072 substitute? (They're expensive now outside the USA)



## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

Worth a shot, I guess. TL072s are $2 each on Tayda right now. And I'm looking at a PCB that wants four _five_ of them.

I _could_ buy a bunch cheaply from other sources, but there seems to be some level of fakery going on with them. I don't feel confident I'd get in-spec results.

So: cheaper source of trustworthy TL072s *for people who do not live in the USA*?
OR
Decent substitute for less monies?


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## temol (Jul 11, 2022)

1$ @ Mouser. Similar price from TME.


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## manfesto (Jul 11, 2022)

$2??? Ouch!

can’t speak to non-US vendors, but as far as what Tayda has that are cheaper, the TL082, JRC4558, and NE5532 are pin-compatible

The TL082 is most similar to the TL072 (I think the difference is the TL07X chips are rated for lower noise than the TL08X)


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## szukalski (Jul 11, 2022)

Ebay from a brick and mortar store. They’re a common part. I usually grab 10-15 when I’m getting a specialist IC.


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## swyse (Jul 11, 2022)

How about the LF353P, jfet Input, 3mhz bandwidth, 13v/us slew rate just like the TL072. I also think it sounds better than the TL072 in situations where it can clip but that’s subjective.


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## jesuscrisp (Jul 11, 2022)

If you live in Europe, Banzai still has them at around 0.70€


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

jesuscrisp said:


> If you live in Europe, Banzai still has them at around 0.70€


Australia. I did check Jaycar, our local Radioshack equivalent, but they're even more expensive there, even without postage. Though there is a Jaycar store a 10 minute bus ride away so at least they're available if I need something in a hurry.


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## szukalski (Jul 11, 2022)

YMMV but I have a bag of these which work fine to my ears compared to others I have.


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

swyse said:


> How about the LF353P, jfet Input, 3mhz bandwidth, 13v/us slew rate just like the TL072. I also think it sounds better than the TL072 in situations where it can clip but that’s subjective.


And a mere 35c each from Tayda. Sounds like a good option. I'm looking at the Ocelot Octave (comparable to the Boss OC-2) which wants FIVE TL072s.


szukalski said:


> YMMV but I have a bag of these which work fine to my ears compared to others I have.


Already saved to my AliExpress wishlist, in fact. 
I've had good results from that seller, though they do seem to veer out of spec on occasion. Probably worth the few bucks gamble though.


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## szukalski (Jul 11, 2022)

I think something like a TL072 has a lot of leeway with what we do with them (behind closed doors).


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## mybud (Jul 11, 2022)

You could consider my local (ZA) shop, which stocks them for $0.50 a pop. 

Here’s a link: https://www.communica.co.za/products/tl072cp?variant=31261992091721

I have no idea whether or not they ship internationally but I have used the chips without incident or problem up to now. 

Obviously YMMV but you could buy four for the price of a single Tayda equivalent. Best of luck with your quest.


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## jesuscrisp (Jul 11, 2022)

Original uses TL022, but maybe you can also check whether TL062 are maybe cheaper at your usual sources? I mean, why not just even try RC4558 or something?


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## giovanni (Jul 11, 2022)

I’m sure once gear manufacturers run out of stock the increased cost of component will reflect on higher prices, leveling the play field again. It still sucks though.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

I'm thinking it has a lot to do with the semiconductor shortage..... for now anyway.

The through-hole version averages around 90 cents from Mouser, which is still higher than normal, but the majority of them are out of stock.  The SMD version, on the other hand starts at around 20 cents.

I expect things will get a little better eventually but we're definitely headed in the other direction in the long run.

Worse case scenario folks are just going to eventually have to embrace SMD...  This really is the answer.  There's a stigma surrounding it because I think a lot of builders believe it's scary or more difficult, but that's how a beginner feels looking at _any_ PCB or electronic component.

Unless a person has a medical reason (eyesight, hand tremors, etc) SMD is no harder to work with than through-hole components, in fact it can be much quicker to assemble since you don't have to form or clip any leads.      I'd use your analogy and say "It'll separate the kids from the big kids!" but it's really just not that huge of a deal.  All you have to do is dive in, it'll seem like nothing in no time.  I mean sure, we'll still see some awful things in the troubleshooting thread, but that happens now.

The only thing I find more difficult with SMD is that I prefer to work one value at a time.  It's a bit tedious to dump out several different values on the bench and keep up with which one is which.   (the seem to always land with the marking side down, and some have no marking at all)

I think the biggest issue overall with the DIY pedal scene would be troubleshooting, since we may or may not be able to spot incorrect component values from a photo.

Anyone learning about electronics today (I don't mean on pedal forums) will see SMD as the norm and through-hole as a bygone.    Eventually we _will_ have to catch up, or pay the premium for what (believe it or not) is slowly becoming "vintage" components.


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## Big Monk (Jul 11, 2022)

thewintersoldier said:


> It is crazy that the garden variety opamps like the 72 are now 2 dollars each. It this point it's almost like you have to buy in bulk just in case and hope you either use them or have enough to go around. I don't know if it's more a supply and demand thing or moving more towards SMD. IC's and transistors are gonna be the expensive parts for builds. I know it's about diy and the experience and some people won't care about price, but I wonder when the price will be the same if not more for the average boutique pedal. Building a guitar or amp is more expensive than a commercial product so pedals can't be that far behind.



Recently I've been looking at bulk discount prices for the first time since I started building. 

It's still cheaper than sourcing old mojo transistors but it ain't far off either.

I've also started to pay attention to end of life/obsolescence, especially considering what you mention about the transition to SMD.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

I agree though, $2 for a TL072 is a bit jarring.   I've been pulling mine from salvage PCBs lately.  Thankfully I have plenty of those.

I'll add the TL072 to my list of components to watch out for decent prices on.   If I find a vendor with some good bulk pricing I'll stock up and make them available.


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## Big Monk (Jul 11, 2022)

Robert said:


> I'm thinking it has a lot to do with the semiconductor shortage..... for now anyway.
> 
> The through-hole version averages around 90 cents from Mouser, which is still higher than normal, but the majority of them are out of stock.  The SMD version, on the other hand starts at around 20 cents.
> 
> ...



The other thing to consider is being able to sub-contract out the population on a board design of the SMD parts and then do final assembly with common through hole parts like caps and resistors.

If you have a design that is calling for SMD semi-conductors, there is no reason to not have JLCPCB or your preferred vendor populate those for you.


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

Robert said:


> Anyone learning about electronics today (I don't mean on pedal forums) will see SMD as the norm and through-hole as a bygone.    Eventually we _will_ have to catch up, or pay the premium for what (believe it or not) is slowly becoming "vintage" components.


I'm sure you're right. I'm not too worried by SMD - the only good thing about myopia is that I can see things really well up close.

EDIT: I think suggesting a sub or two in the build docs would be helpful. More work, though, just to slow down those build docs a little more.


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

I'll grab a bunch of the AliExpress ones and sub them in on pedals I've already built to test whether they are what they claim to be. Though as I say above, there's some variation in batches, so results from one batch may not match the next.

I had a look at the data sheet for the LF353P that @swyse mentioned above and it looks like an exact match for the TL072 to me, given that I don't really know what the numbers mean. But if they're the same numbers, then it's all good, right?


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## Oh_Discordia! (Jul 11, 2022)

Jameco has them for .65 each if you buy 10+. 

dont know their reputation though....


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## temol (Jul 11, 2022)

My experience with 72's from Ali is bad. Three different sellers. Stuff of course works, but sounds bit fizzy on decay (crossover distortion, that's not present with legit chips).


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

Lowtide said:


> Jameco has them for .65 each if you buy 10+.
> 
> dont know their reputation though....



I've had no experiences with them and I think they used to be reputable but it hasn't been flattering lately.


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## Oh_Discordia! (Jul 11, 2022)

Robert said:


> I've had no experiences with them and I think they used to be reputable but it hasn't been flattering lately.


gonna order 10 and ill see what happens


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## Big Monk (Jul 11, 2022)

Robert said:


> I've had no experiences with them and I think they used to be reputable but it hasn't been flattering lately.



Jameco is the only supplier i know of for the 9203 LDRs with the correct specs but they have a $20 order minimum.


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## Oh_Discordia! (Jul 11, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> Jameco is the only supplier i know of for the 9203 LDRs with the correct specs but they have a $20 order minimum.


is that what i need for the electrovibe?   about to order from jameco and i'll get these and drop the other nonsense filler i was using to hit 20$


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## Big Monk (Jul 11, 2022)

Lowtide said:


> is that what i need for the electrovibe?   about to order from jameco and i'll get these and drop the other nonsense filler i was using to hit 20$



Yeah, they match the specs of the SBE 9203s.

The ones Digikey sells are close to the SBE 9200s.


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## jeffwhitfield (Jul 11, 2022)

StompBoxParts has the TL072IP for $.65. Granted, minimum purchase of 5 but that’s slight. They also have the CP version that’s a tad cheaper. 









						TL072IP - Dual Op-Amp IC
					

Top Quality Parts for Guitar Effects Pedals and DIY Music Devices. Knobs, Pots, Switches, Kits, LEDs, Enclosures, Jacks, Wire, Resistors, Capacitors, Semiconductors




					stompboxparts.com


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

There we go.   Can't beat that.


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

jeffwhitfield said:


> StompBoxParts has the TL072IP for $.65. Granted, minimum purchase of 5 but that’s slight. They also have the CP version that’s a tad cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a reason I wrote *for people who do not live in the USA *in big bold letters in the OP. It's bad enough paying postal rates from the US on PCBs, which I can't get anywhere else. Things that I can get locally or direct from Asia (which is much closer to me than the USA) are much more affordable.


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

temol said:


> My experience with 72's from Ali is bad. Three different sellers. Stuff of course works, but sounds bit fizzy on decay (crossover distortion, that's not present with legit chips).


I bought some, I'll see how they go.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

Like @jesuscrisp suggested, Tayda has TL062 for 46 cents.









						TL062 Dual Low-Power JFET-Input OP-AMP IC
					

VARIOUS - Get It Fast - Same Day Shipping




					www.taydaelectronics.com


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## jimilee (Jul 11, 2022)

I use 4558s because mojo. 🤣


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## mybud (Jul 11, 2022)

DAJE said:


> There's a reason I wrote *for people who do not live in the USA *in big bold letters in the OP. It's bad enough paying postal rates from the US on PCBs, which I can't get anywhere else. Things that I can get locally or direct from Asia (which is much closer to me than the USA) are much more affordable.


Hence the post about my local (South African) supplier 😉


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

mybud said:


> Hence the post about my local (South African) supplier 😉


I did have a look at the site, couldn't see any info about international shipping though. I'm all for Southern Hemisphere solidarity.


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## Big Monk (Jul 11, 2022)

@PedalPCB

Hypothetically speaking, if there were to be a wave of obsolescence with respect to certain semiconductors, would it be feasible to redesign some boards to include SMD components preinstalled from the fabrication houses? 

Then people could still populate the through hole components without any of the headaches of messing with the SMD parts.


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## mybud (Jul 11, 2022)

DAJE said:


> I did have a look at the site, couldn't see any info about international shipping though. I'm all for Southern Hemisphere solidarity.


Agreed, my friend. Sure, would you like me to investigate for you?


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## mybud (Jul 11, 2022)

mybud said:


> Agreed, my friend. Sure, would you like me to investigate for you?


Push comes to shove, I could get them delivered to me and then send them on to you.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> Hypothetically speaking, ...



Hypothetically speaking, I _might_ have a reflow oven on it's way.


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## Passinwind (Jul 11, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> @PedalPCB
> 
> Hypothetically speaking, if there were to be a wave of obsolescence with respect to certain semiconductors, would it be feasible to redesign some boards to include SMD components preinstalled from the fabrication houses?
> 
> Then people could still populate the through hole components without any of the headaches of messing with the SMD parts.


JLCPCB want you to use generic components they stock, or buy hundreds or thousands of pieces that they keep in their warehouse and can only be used in builds done by them. So if I don't want to use Uniroyal SMD resistors I'm not going to be happy with using JLCPCB, for the most part. I've never even seen a Uniroyal part but they are certainly cheap, at least. And none of the opamps I prefer to use are readily available there, buying 5000 or even 100 units to be warehoused in the ROC is just not happening.

About five years ago I saw the handwriting on the wall and learned to hand solder relatively large format SMD parts like SOIC-8 and 1206 ones. I can do a size smaller than those fairly happily, then it would begin to get dodgy for this old dog.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

My experience with the fab houses is that when they DO source components from other vendors for you they do not extend the bulk pricing discount on to you.   You end up paying the individual price for quantities in the thousands.

Not a huge deal for resistors and caps, but that adds up QUICK when you're working with the THAT4305.

And don't forget customs fees.... That's tough to avoid with an assembled PCB in large quantities.


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## mybud (Jul 11, 2022)

Big Monk said:


> @PedalPCB
> 
> Hypothetically speaking, if there were to be a wave of obsolescence with respect to certain semiconductors, would it be feasible to redesign some boards to include SMD components preinstalled from the fabrication houses?
> 
> Then people could still populate the through hole components without any of the headaches of messing with the SMD parts.



What about those little (scary) SOIC to through hole adapter boards? I optimistically ordered a couple and can scarcely see the little lines on them 🤨


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

Similar to what I said about powder coating and UV printing, I'm not planning to do fully assembled SMD PCBs...  I won't have the equipment, space, or workforce to do such a thing.

But presoldered ICs that are only available in SMD format?   I'm on it.... in fact, I have 377 of a particular part on the way.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

mybud said:


> What about those little (scary) SOIC to through hole adapter boards? I optimistically ordered a couple and can scarcely see the little lines on them 🤨



I solder those by hand right now (it's really not that bad unless you're doing hundreds), but I'll be presoldering some SOIC-28 ICs pretty soon.

I said I never would again, but maybe I lied.


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## mybud (Jul 11, 2022)

Robert said:


> Similar to what I said about powder coating and UV printing, I'm not planning to do fully assembled SMD PCBs...  I won't have the equipment, space, or workforce to do such a thing.
> 
> But presoldered ICs that are only available in SMD format?   I'm on it.... in fact, I have 377 of a particular part on the way.


377 (just in case of an imminent contest).


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

mybud said:


> 377 (just in case of an imminent contest).



Missed it by a few hours.



			https://forum.pedalpcb.com/threads/lets-do-the-dmm-thing.12383/post-133439


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## mybud (Jul 11, 2022)

Darn, ermmmm 32? 42? The square root of -1?


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

Congratulations, you have won a TL072!


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

And hey, if the through hole TL072 becomes a thing of the past we can definitely do some pre-soldered SOIC8 > DIP8 adapters, just like the MMBFJ201's.


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## MichaelW (Jul 11, 2022)

Man, this thread is depressing.....ima gonna go count how many TL072's I have........


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

mybud said:


> Push comes to shove, I could get them delivered to me and then send them on to you.


Very decent of you to offer. I have some coming from AliExpress, which I'll test. And I can probably find some somewhere for a reasonable price in the long term. But I greatly appreciate the offer, and if I can help you with any Australian thing, let me know.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> Man, this thread is depressing.....ima gonna go count how many TL072's I have........



I think it's going to be fine.   We can still get germanium transistors and diodes....when did they quit making those?


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## Harry Klippton (Jul 11, 2022)

Not to mention decades of consumer electronics to salvage parts from  🤷


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

mybud said:


> What about those little (scary) SOIC to through hole adapter boards? I optimistically ordered a couple and can scarcely see the little lines on them 🤨


I bought a bunch of them a while back, and my close up vision is good. I am thinking about getting some SMD 72s... I have managed to successfully put... maybe 10 or 12 SMD J201s and 5457s onto adaptor boards. EDIT: and I didn't destroy any in the process.


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## benny_profane (Jul 11, 2022)

Through hole devices are still used in plenty of mission-critical applications, so I don't foresee a complete end of production of those parts. Also, the demand remains high for general purpose parts like DIP8 TL072. Right now, the Si shortages / fab concentration has led to rationing and prioritizing production. Now that production is going in the direction of less concentration and more regional fab houses are coming online, I think there's an end in sight to shortages—although the exact timeline there is probably later rather than sooner. But, I do think that niche products (e.g., dynamic processors that have the VAST majority of their application in production electronics), will see DIP package EOL for sure. There's always the possibility of companies such as Coolaudio resurrecting ancient tech and offering it to hobbyists, but there's of course a premium there.

I have no problem with surface-mount ICs / transistors, but I'd like to continue to use through-hole passives.


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## DAJE (Jul 11, 2022)

Robert said:


> I think it's going to be fine.   We can still get germanium transistors and diodes....when did they quit making those?


I've heard that the USSR made literally millions of Germanium diodes to stockpile for use in radioactivity detectors / Geiger counters.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

They're fairly tolerant to heat, not like germaniums... after all, they sit in a reflow oven at high temperature for several _minutes_.


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## Passinwind (Jul 11, 2022)

mybud said:


> What about those little (scary) SOIC to through hole adapter boards? I optimistically ordered a couple and can scarcely see the little lines on them 🤨


It gets better after you do a few dozen (or a few hundred), trust me. I almost never use through hole opamps anymore, for my purposes the SMD variants are just uniformly better. Especially for onboard electronics, which is my main thing.

Those little adapter boards are very inexpensive BTW, through OSHpark they run me three for a buck, shipping included. Multiple people have shared their fabrication files there if you don't want to do the layouts yourself.


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## benny_profane (Jul 11, 2022)

In terms of 'scary' — I've gotten away with soldering a 16 Pin QSOP with .8mm solder and a T18-D16 tip with some solder wick. It's really not as difficult as it might seem to be.

EDIT: And a flux pen. Definitely necessary.


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

Nope, at some point drag soldering becomes more reasonable than pin-by-pin.  

After you do it a few times you won't even think about it.

Remember the first time you ever soldered _anything_?   That was probably a little uncomfortable too.

Start small then work your way .. uh... down.


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## benny_profane (Jul 11, 2022)

The one thing I don't like about SMD ICs is that removal can be destructive to the board. It also throws the general order of operations out the window since you're soldering the SMD parts _first_. Typically, I like to save transistors/ICs for last.


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## benny_profane (Jul 11, 2022)

@PedalPCB at the rate you’re on with equipment and service expansion, what’s the roadmap for in-house fabbing?


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## spi (Jul 11, 2022)

TL074s are cheaper.  Just cut one in half ✂️


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## Robert (Jul 11, 2022)

benny_profane said:


> @PedalPCB at the rate you’re on with equipment and service expansion, what’s the roadmap for in-house fabbing?



I'll be at full capacity for a little while after this.    I didn't mention the 384 new PCB bins that were just added.



spi said:


> TL074s are cheaper.  Just cut one in half ✂️



Two for the price of one. Genius!


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## jeffwhitfield (Jul 11, 2022)

DAJE said:


> There's a reason I wrote *for people who do not live in the USA *in big bold letters in the OP. It's bad enough paying postal rates from the US on PCBs, which I can't get anywhere else. Things that I can get locally or direct from Asia (which is much closer to me than the USA) are much more affordable.


Dump! Mah reedin’ skills sux! 🤪


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## cdwillis (Jul 11, 2022)

Wow! That's a huge jump. I have a few 72s sitting around because they were so cheap. I just checked and the first time I ordered them in April of 2020 they were 34 cents. Gonna to look into those LF353Ps now. Get some ne5532s and lm833s and such to mess with now too. I think those are bjt input instead of jfet so maybe not exactly similar.


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## finebyfine (Jul 12, 2022)

temol said:


> My experience with 72's from Ali is bad. Three different sellers. Stuff of course works, but sounds bit fizzy on decay (crossover distortion, that's not present with legit chips).


My luck with SMD 72s has been better than through hole from Ali. I have a handful of Ali 72s that I would only use if it's already in a dirt path of a pedal.

LCSC has through holes for 75¢ and 97¢ US a pop




__





						TL072IP Texas Instruments | C110329 - LCSC Electronics
					

TL072IP Texas Instruments US$0.6285 - 1.4mA 13 V/us 2 3MHz J-FET 7V~36V,±3.5V~18V PDIP-8  FET InputAmplifiers ROHS datasheet, price, inventory C110329




					lcsc.com
				








						Texas Instruments | Texas Instruments TL072CP    | FET InputAmplifiers - LCSC.COM
					

Texas Instruments Texas Instruments TL072CP    US$0.9666           LCSC electronic components online Amplifiers FET InputAmplifiers           - leaded datasheet+inventory and pricing




					lcsc.com


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## Feral Feline (Jul 12, 2022)

Soon we won't have to build our PPCB pedals, we'll just order them from Robert, tick the boxes for the mods we want, select the colour of enclosure and add/send graphics... Build your pedal completely online.


"Looky here at dis pedal I done builded my own self!"


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## Alan W (Jul 15, 2022)

Drag soldering isn’t that hard to learn. Assuming a decent iron, my main purchase was flux and an applicator bottle. I already had a good 8x visor which got me through the first starter boards. I finally broke down and got a binocular inspection microscope, which really made it much easier to work on 0603 sized caps and resistors. I really helps to be able to see so well! (Especially for checking ones work.) I also really like a soldering tip that has a small concavity on its wedged end; this is a finesse thing, but it holds the little bead of molten solder as you wipe across the legs.

From my point of view, any part with more than 3 or 4 legs is safer to sacrifice if you need to remove it. Just clip the legs, then use solder wick to remove the stubs. If you do enough SMD work, you’ll probably eventually get a desoldering tool with specific heads to match parts formats, but that is a luxury. Another tool that really helps with these tiny parts is some heat proof (non metal) tweezers. To me, the hardest part is holding the smaller parts in place without blocking access to soldering them. Bamboo toothpicks come in handy.


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## cwsquared (Jul 16, 2022)

Profusion has TL072G for $.48

I don't know about Unisonic as a manufacturer though.  I am in need of quite a few for the backlog, so guidance from "the Knowledgeable" would be helpful.


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## DAJE (Jul 25, 2022)

I received my bag 20 from AliExpress, and tested half of them (5 pairs) in my Kliché Mini. I use that pedal a lot, so I'm pretty familiar with how it's supposed to sound. 

I listened critically to sustained notes and note decay with each pair, and I can't hear anything wrong with any of them. I left a pair of the new ones in there and I'll listen to it even louder tomorrow, but I don't think they'll sound any different. 

It's entirely possible that different batches differ in quality, so there's no guarantee on these results. But I'm happy with my purchase.


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## szukalski (Jul 25, 2022)

temol said:


> My experience with 72's from Ali is bad. Three different sellers. Stuff of course works, but sounds bit fizzy on decay (crossover distortion, that's not present with legit chips).


After I read this, I did some AB testing and have to agree. A bunch got thrown in the bin. I also found T071 (which didn't work) and OP07 with the same batch number printed on them.. the fake game is strong!


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## temol (Jul 25, 2022)

From what I know it's not about poor quality of the chips. It's not even TL072. It's often rebranded LM358.


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## finebyfine (Jul 25, 2022)

Alan W said:


> To me, the hardest part is holding the smaller parts in place without blocking access to soldering them.



Same (agree with your entire post), ceramic tweezers are my go to non soldering iron hand tool to hold them in place and bend through hole leads


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## jimilee (Jul 25, 2022)

szukalski said:


> After I read this, I did some AB testing and have to agree. A bunch got thrown in the bin. I also found T071 (which didn't work) and OP07 with the same batch number printed on them.. the fake game is strong!


Those are single opamps, they won’t work in a dual application.


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## szukalski (Jul 25, 2022)

jimilee said:


> Those are single opamps, they won’t work in a dual application.


Yeah, sorry. I wasn’t very clear. I had bought TL071 but they weren’t working, so tried them in a dual op pedal and they functioned so they had been mislabeled / faked. I had three batches of chips, TL071/TL072/OP07 looking identical and with the same batch number, functioning as (dodgy) dual opamps but with the label printed with the “correct” chip. 

Buying direct from TI looks interesting. €40 DDP to Germany hurts a little. If any Germans/Europeans want a group buy then let me know!


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## Passinwind (Aug 4, 2022)

If any of you folks use low current low noise SMD opamps as I often do for things like onboard preamps, it might be a good idea to stock up now, as in right now. The parts I use the most ar either completely gone or very close to it (~100 OPA145 left in the US at the usual retail vendors as far as I can tell, for example)  and are quoted at a minimum of a year out on restock at Mouser and Digikey. I even saw some 2024 dates on parts I might typically use as subs, no bueno. I had to take final orders for April NAMM builds today and I barely have enough stash to meet those obligations and do even one off builds of new things I've been working on. Ugghh!

Might be time for me to revert to tube amp and preamp builds for while, I reckon, 🌈🦄


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## Guilherme Collateral (Aug 4, 2022)

https://www.ti.com/product/TL072/part-details/TL072CP 

72 cents a piece, straight from the manufacturer!


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## DAJE (Aug 4, 2022)

Guilherme Collateral said:


> https://www.ti.com/product/TL072/part-details/TL072CP
> 
> 72 cents a piece, straight from the manufacturer!





DAJE said:


> cheaper source of trustworthy TL072s *for people who do not live in the USA*?


I was hoping that people would read the OP and see the giant black words, but I guess there's always someone who only reads the title. 

I _know_ they're cheaper in the USA, I live in Australia. Many other forum users are also non-US residents.


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## mybud (Aug 5, 2022)

DAJE said:


> I was hoping that people would read the OP and see the giant black words, but I guess there's always someone who only reads the title.
> 
> I _know_ they're cheaper in the USA, I live in Australia. Many other forum users are also non-US residents.


AFAIK @Guilherme Collateral hails from Brazil and I’m in South Africa. I registered on their site and a single 072 direct from TI costs approximately 12ZAR (1,04AUD). I put together a mock-up order (022s, 072s, 074s, 084s) to check their postage and other costs and these amount to 120ZAR (10,40AUD). This is pretty reasonable, since it seems like Tayda’s minimum postage to here is around 20USD. At least, ordering direct from TI should confirm that these are genuine, one less factor to worry about in a build. Dunno what postage to Australia will cost, but maybe worth trying their site to check.


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## DAJE (Aug 5, 2022)

Apologies to @Guilherme Collateral for my brusque reply, I've been quite stressed by many things recently.


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## fig (Aug 5, 2022)

It seems a down-under group buy may be in order? We do it here in the states as well, even though we’re all obviously billionaires with no sense of value and there’s a vending machine for whatever you want on every corner. Not really…but how noice would that be? 

There are a lot of dual op amps to be had (though I suspect they too are or will be edging up in cost). Not all will sound alike so I suggest buying a few of several popular types and auditioning each for builds. Although it’s time-consuming, you could even open up old builds and audition replacement dual op amps in those as well. That should free up enough 072s for builds that just don’t do well with the other duals.


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## DAJE (Aug 5, 2022)

fig said:


> It seems a down-under group buy may be in order? We do it here in the states as well, even though we’re all obviously billionaires with no sense of value and there’s a vending machine for whatever you want on every corner. Not really…but how noice would that be?
> 
> There are a lot of dual op amps to be had (though I suspect they too are or will be edging up in cost). Not all will sound alike so I suggest buying a few of several popular types and auditioning each for builds. Although it’s time-consuming, you could even open up old builds and audition replacement dual op amps in those as well. That should free up enough 072s for builds that just don’t do well with the other duals.


These are fine ideas, Mr Fig.


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## Guilherme Collateral (Aug 5, 2022)

DAJE said:


> Apologies to @Guilherme Collateral for my brusque reply, I've been quite stressed by many things recently.


Don't worry man! Hope things get better. Mybud is right, I live in Brazil and I posted the link from the Texas Instruments page because the shipping is actually VERY cheap and crazy fast!


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## fig (Aug 5, 2022)

Maybe try a 4558 and/or a LM258. I’ve had success with these breadboarding and they are low-cost. Check your continent‘s electronics surplus sales…I find a LOT of deals here…


btw, which pedal are you building? If I have it, I could try some subs and at least offer an opinion.


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## Guilherme Collateral (Aug 5, 2022)

fig said:


> Maybe try a 4558 and/or a LM258. I’ve had success with these breadboarding and they are low-cost. Check your continent‘s electronics surplus sales…I find a LOT of deals here…
> 
> 
> btw, which pedal are you building? If I have it, I could try some subs and at least offer an opinion.


That brings a point. Some circuits NEED a TL072 to work right! I made a few Tyrian boards in the past using the great LM833 and NE5532 and the bass control was acting up, sounding like a broken synth and I just couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong. Then I swapped the expensive chips with the good old 072 and got the pedal working. The same with a angry Charlie v3


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## fig (Aug 5, 2022)

Guilherme Collateral said:


> That brings a point. Some circuits NEED a TL072 to work right! I made a few Tyrian boards in the past using the great LM833 and NE5532 and the bass control was acting up, sounding like a broken synth and I just couldn't figure out what the hell was wrong. Then I swapped the expensive chips with the good old 072 and got the pedal working. The same with a angry Charlie v3


Absolutely...you'll know fairly quick if it's a match or not.


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## Guilherme Collateral (Aug 5, 2022)

fig said:


> Absolutely...you'll know fairly quick if it's a match or not.


Not that quick the first time it happened to me 💩


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## DAJE (Aug 5, 2022)

fig said:


> Maybe try a 4558 and/or a LM258. I’ve had success with these breadboarding and they are low-cost. Check your continent‘s electronics surplus sales…I find a LOT of deals here…
> 
> 
> btw, which pedal are you building? If I have it, I could try some subs and at least offer an opinion.


I have an Ocelot waiting to be built, which requires _FIVE_ TL072s. But as it happens - I posted about this a couple of pages back - I got a bag of 20 "fake" TL072s from AliExpress and tested five pairs  of them in my Kliché Mini and they sound fine. I listened closely and critically and I can't hear anything wrong with them. I left a pair in there. Now, it's _possible_ that a pair of name brand TL072s might sound slightly better, but I have no complaints with my AE knock-offs.

I'd still buy into a group buy of TI originals, but when I put the Ocelot together I'll try my "fakes" first. I'm reasonably confident they'll be OK.


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## Guilherme Collateral (Aug 6, 2022)

DAJE said:


> I have an Ocelot waiting to be built, which requires _FIVE_ TL072s. But as it happens - I posted about this a couple of pages back - I got a bag of 20 "fake" TL072s from AliExpress and tested five pairs  of them in my Kliché Mini and they sound fine. I listened closely and critically and I can't hear anything wrong with them. I left a pair in there. Now, it's _possible_ that a pair of name brand TL072s might sound slightly better, but I have no complaints with my AE knock-offs.
> 
> I'd still buy into a group buy of TI originals, but when I put the Ocelot together I'll try my "fakes" first. I'm reasonably confident they'll be OK.


When you get the orginal ones I recommend you compare it with the fake ones on the kliche circuit. Sounds really different, the decay of the notes will be much smoother


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## DAJE (Aug 6, 2022)

Guilherme Collateral said:


> When you get the orginal ones I recommend you compare it with the fake ones on the kliche circuit. Sounds really different, the decay of the notes will be much smoother


The original TL072s in that build are from Tayda, and I've seen people claiming those are "fake" too. I have no idea whether they're fake or genuine or whatever that even means in this context, but they sounded fine. I did listen very closely and critically, and I am not hearing anything wrong with them. 

Possibly the problem is quality control, meaning that some batches are too far out of spec to use, while other batches are good.


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