# Veroboard - Is it worth it? Where is a good place to get some?



## BuddytheReow (Nov 3, 2020)

Hey all,

I've built a few pedals now and am getting curious about veroboard and building from scratch. Is it worth it? Also, where is a good place to get some? Amazon?


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## p_wats (Nov 3, 2020)

I still do some building on vero on occasion and like it for certain things. I get mine from Tayda whenever I put in a parts order.


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## spi (Nov 3, 2020)

I've bought veroboard from both amazon and tayda.  The one from amazon (BusBoard brand) was thick and substantial, whereas the tadya ones are thinner (not to mention much cheaper).  I actually find the cheap ones easier to work with, but I haven't had issues with either of them--if you order on amazon read the reviews, I did see some that were not well reviewed.

I like veroboard for small circuits, and ones without a lot of knobs (like boosters and fuzzes).  As the complexity goes up they can be more frustrating.  If you're a sloppy solderer like me, solder can run down the lines, cross the lines, etc.  I've spent more time debugging issues on vero than on pcbs.  But I've also built several good pedals with vero, and it's rewarding (I have only one that didn't work out).

You should definitely try it see if you like it.


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 3, 2020)

Aren't there 2 types or boards? One with the copper strips and one without (holes only)?


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## benny_profane (Nov 3, 2020)

BuddytheReow said:


> Aren't there 2 types or boards? One with the copper strips and one without (holes only)?


Vero is also called stripboard or tagboard and has continuous rows of conductive material. The 'holes only' board is typically called 'perfboard'.


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 3, 2020)

Which one of those is a good "next step" after using pcb?


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## Nostradoomus (Nov 3, 2020)

Maybe order a couple pieces of both and see what you like best. There’s plenty of layouts around for both, just depends what makes more sense when you have it in front of you.


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## mdc (Nov 3, 2020)

Vero board builds are fun and for the most part pretty easy—similarly to you I'm quite new to it all, but the jump into vero stuff was fairly low impact. I started with just about the simplest circuit I could find - the catalinbread naga viper.

If you're just getting started I'd stick to the main sites with a decent community of folks building and verifying the layouts. Whenever an interesting circuit gets traced and propagates through the forums, there's usually a few vero layouts to choose from within a day or two:






						Guitar FX Layouts
					

Collection of vero (stripboard) & tagboard layouts for 100s of popular guitar effects, with over 500 verified designs. DIY your own boutique effects!




					tagboardeffects.blogspot.com
				








						Dirtbox Layouts
					






					dirtboxlayouts.blogspot.com
				





Vero is great for straightforward OD/distortion/boost circuits, or for mix and matching bits and pieces together in a single box. PCBs are generally the single largest cost in a DIY build tbqh, so it's a nice way to cut down the price on things you're curious about but not 100% sold on boxing up or whatever. There are also a lot of cool non-guitar-pedal stripboard layouts floating around on sites like muffwiggler for things like drone synths, filters, noise boxes, etc, etc, as well as a bunch of small utility circuits or daughterboards that you can add to other designs. Want to add a blend knob or an active EQ section or BMP tone knob to something else? You can build it up on vero and hack it into something else pretty easily.

I've not had any problems with strips lifting off of the tayda stripboard, and it's more substantial than the stuff I can get at the local electronics place here. 

I guess my only advice would be that if you're consistently having issues getting pedalpcb or other PCB-based builds to fire up properly on the first go, I'd probably avoid doing stripboard for the moment as it just adds one more element of complication. It's not a particularly big one, but still, why make things more difficult than they need to be y'know?

Oh and yes - the point about anything that needs more than 3 or 4 knobs/switches being a hassle is very true. You run out of a space for wires in a 1590BB a lot faster than you'd think.


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## TheSin (Nov 3, 2020)

I’ve done plenty of vero builds, I started with them first. Helped me improve my soldering skills. I get mine from Tayda, never had any issues. It’s also less expensive than buying pcb’s. I do prefer pcb’s these days because it just makes for a cleaner build, less wire, and the pots provide a means of mounting the board. I never liked just having my veroboard floating around in the enclosure.
I wouldn’t shy away from a vero build if I couldn’t get a pcb for a certain pedal though.


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## twebb6778 (Nov 3, 2020)

I really like working with vero, populating a printed board is fun but it's so satisfying to build something from a completely blank canvas.

It's definitely a bit trickier and requires a bit more planning and concentration, but absolutely worth it. And it's cheap! If you mess up you can always start again.


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## Dan0h (Nov 3, 2020)

Total noob here. 
I ordered some pref boards from Amazon. 
Thought I would practice making the SOB pedal on perf since my first attempt on a PCB was a fail. Spent a few hours hand re-drawing out the schematic of the SOB, it has definitely shown how convenient printed PcBs are,  and the amount of work the PCB makers must put in. I’ve got two nights into this so far and am a bout 50% done. The back side is going to be a jumper jungle nightmare for sure... great for learning though.


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## zgrav (Nov 3, 2020)

vero can give you neater layouts but parts placement can be confusing when you try to compare a vero build to a schematic.  good building and troubleshooting experience either way.


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## Chas Grant (Nov 3, 2020)

Dan0h said:


> Total noob here.
> I ordered some pref boards from Amazon.
> Thought I would practice making the SOB pedal on perf since my first attempt on a PCB was a fail. Spent a few hours hand re-drawing out the schematic of the SOB, it has definitely shown how convenient printed PcBs are,  and the amount of work the PCB makers must put in. I’ve got two nights into this so far and am a bout 50% done. The back side is going to be a jumper jungle nightmare for sure... great for learning though.



Kicad and Eagle are free software that makes laying out circuits and PCB’s easier, DIY Layout Creator is great for laying out perf and vero boards. Use Kicad or Eagle to draw up schematic then lay it out, if working with perf the layout creator software is easy to use but no schematic, so draw it up in Kicad and then layout


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## Dan0h (Nov 3, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> Kicad and Eagle are free software that makes laying out circuits and PCB’s easier, DIY Layout Creator is great for laying out perf and vero boards. Use Kicad or Eagle to draw up schematic then lay it out, if working with perf the layout creator software is easy to use but no schematic, so draw it up in Kicad and then layout


Sweet. I will check those out tonight. Other good news. SOB boards are back in stock.


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## mjh36 (Nov 3, 2020)

Ya I built a few pcb's here, then with the spare parts I had, I browsed Tagboardeffects until I found a vero layout with most the components. Just finished my first one and it kinda felt like making a free pedal. Two things I learned from it as a noob:

1. Watch a couple YouTube videos on cuts/links. I thought I knew what I was doing (famous last words) and did mine 100% opposite mirror image, but I still made it work.

2. Wiring. Way more wiring.

Other than that it's easy after your first one and I'll do more, but it makes you see the value of having a nice pcb made for you.


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## Markus Kersius (Nov 4, 2020)

I enjoy the occasional vero building and it is pretty satisfying and also therapeutic. (if it works when finishing it that is ?)
Lots of tutorials on the net like on sites mentioned above.
I started simple too: orman mosfet boost, fuzzes etc, and since have build tubescreamers, a bigfoot magnavibe, a Danelectro autowah, and greer lightspeeds for example.
Really learns you what makes pedals tick and what components do and how to troubleshoot when something isn't doing what it should.
That said: I build my first Pedalpcb and I found it to be much easier and less time consuming building on a solder ready pcb.
Especially the wiring, like mentioned above is so much neater as that with vero/perfboard builds.


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## mdc (Nov 4, 2020)

One other thing that I think is really satisfying about vero builds is the ability to do multiples and see if you can make a couple of the same thing sound the same as one another. 

When the EQD black ash was traced a few months ago, I built one based on a vero layout and really loved the way it sounded. If you're like me (and I assume most of us) and order 50 resistors from tayda when you need 2, you can basically build five pedals for the cost of the switches/enclosures. So I built 5 more of the same pedal, gain matched transistors into sets, and made some quarantine gifts for a couple of pals. It was a nice way to spend some time over a few weeks and the repetitive element was nice and meditative. 

And as someone else mentioned above, if something goes completely sideways the total cost of the parts you're tossing in the garbage is like $2, versus the stress of trying to salvage a $12 PCB that isn't working. 

Anyway, I built up the Dinosaural Tube Bender with the Aion 'wyvern' mods last night and it sounds *fantastic*. Highly suggest checking this one out if you're interested.


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## mdc (Nov 4, 2020)

@Markus Kersius how are you getting the edges on your stripboard so smooth? Very classy!


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## Nostradoomus (Nov 4, 2020)

Dremel sanding wheels work wonders.


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## spi (Nov 4, 2020)

mjh36 said:


> 1. Watch a couple YouTube videos on cuts/links. I thought I knew what I was doing (famous last words) and did mine 100% opposite mirror image, but I still made it work.


The mirror imaging thing bit me too.  I realized all the pins of an IC were inverted.  Had to bend all the legs 180 degrees to make it work... the first IC lost a leg doing this, and the second try I did carefully and got it to fit.


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## perfboarder (Nov 4, 2020)

Have very subjective weird opinion.

Always choose perfboard, specially the thick perf like double sided chinese green board. Why?

+ Thick, of course. Hard to bend.
+ The pads is just right size, and hard to lifted.
+ Its easier to solder right angle pots, or if you hardcore faster, you can do solder from component side. Remember, its double side.
+ Art of perf is bend that leg and use as trace.
+ You can do veroboard style in perfboard, without cut the pads. But you must connect point to point. Its easy, just bend left or right.
+- Perf layout is easy convert to pcb, so its good start if want to move real pcb build. Although you cant always have vertical component like in beauty vero layout.
- If you put wrong component, more work to correct that.

Its back to preference, what make you comfort and fast to build.


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## HamishR (Nov 4, 2020)

PCB is the way to go for the more complex pedals like the bigger Friedman ODs or even the Klones IMO. But the whole reason I got into building pedals was to experiment and try to make the pedal suit my use, not just make clones. Swapping parts out on a PCB is not really advisable. It can be done but is fraught with peril.

I started building vero layouts from copying those online. I thought I could never draw one up in my wildest dreams! But then once you get into it you find ways of "improving" layouts, and before you know it you're designing your own. I have lots of little preferences in vero layouts - I like the wires to come off the board where the connections are, so for example I like to have the Gain pot wiring top left of the board because that's where the Gain pot will be.

I have zero education in electronics, yet after building amps and then pedals I have learnt so much from places like this. And specifically because of this forum and the help of Chuck and everyone I have been able to actually tweak various designs to become so much better for my playing than anything available commercially. And Vero is the only option for me (so far) to build and experiment with the very tweaked designs. 

Vero is very forgiving and with practise easy to solder neatly onto. Have a clean, fine point on your iron and you shouldn't have any trouble. Swapping out parts is easy. I suspect that if you have only ever built PCBs you will initially find Vero a challenge but after a while you will wonder how you ever did without it!


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## Chuck D. Bones (Nov 4, 2020)

zgrav said:


> vero can give you neater layouts but parts placement can be confusing when you try to compare a vero build to a schematic.  good building and troubleshooting experience either way.


Indeed!


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## Chuck D. Bones (Nov 5, 2020)

What substrate material is used in the Tayda Strip Boards?  They don't say.  I was buying some nice strip boards on Amazon that were made from epoxy-glass, but they are no longer available.  Last batch I bought there are on some cheaper phenolic-type material.  The boards work ok as long as they're dry.  They soak up water like a sponge during cleaning and are useless until they're completely dry.


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## mdc (Nov 5, 2020)

I'm not sure what the tayda board is made out of, but I just ran an offcut under the tap and it doesn't seem to have soaked up any water.


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## rmfx (Nov 5, 2020)

Vero and proto are fun. I like taking misdrilled boxes or parts sitting around too long to make something. As said prior, it feels like a free pedal if you have a standard assortment of parts already sitting around. 

If the appearance of the wiring matters, all the extra wires make that a fun challenge.


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## mdc (Nov 5, 2020)

@spi thanks for the recommendation on the busboard brand boards - I ordered a few sheets and it seems very nice, much more substantial than the tayda stuff. @Chuck D. Bones it's marked as being 'FR4 glass-epoxy PCB' if that's what you're after.


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 13, 2020)

Stupid noob question. Are veroboard and stripboard the same thing? Looking at Tayda right now...


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## Jovi Bon Kenobi (Nov 13, 2020)

BuddytheReow said:


> Stupid noob question. Are veroboard and stripboard the same thing? Looking at Tayda right now...


as far as I know, Vero is just the trademarked name for stripboard. They are one and the same


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 13, 2020)

Jovi Bon Kenobi said:


> as far as I know, Vero is just the trademarked name for stripboard. They are one and the same


thanks!


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