# How anal to be about components?



## Crookedtooth (May 19, 2020)

Hey ya'll. So after spending a good couple of hours measuring a bunch of resistors for a few builds, I sort of sat back and took a deep breath and wondered "Do I really need to be doing this?".
I'd built a number of pedals previously without ever measuring any component. Most of those builds were basic enough that I don't think they sound bad or sound too far from an original, but after taking some notes from pedal builders, yeah, I decided I should start measuring my caps and transistors, etc. 
The thing is – how anal do I really need to be about it?
Do I really need to sweat a 1r resistor being .997r? Or a 10m resistor being 9.997m?
Is it worth really finding the perfect component value of a cap or transistor or diode? If I'm close but not exact, do I need to order another batch to fish through?
Are the professional pedalmakers all measuring out each and every component to an exact spec? Or do they allow for some variance as well? (I just watched a video from JAM pedals where it looked like maybe they don't)
What's your advice and where do you draw the line for how obsessive to be (for your own sanity and those around you)?
Would love to hear from ya'll and see if I need to up my game or chill waaaay out.
Thanks!


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## Robert (May 19, 2020)

Crookedtooth said:


> Are the professional pedalmakers all measuring out each and every component to an exact spec?



Of _course_ they are! Haven't you read their marketing hype? 

Seriously though... I'm sure some do, but I'm also certain that some don't. 

I don't measure before I install...    It's not a bad practice though, because you can identify an incorrect value before it ever goes in.     I'd say incorrect resistor values account for at least 90% of the troubleshooting threads here.      I've never gotten a mislabeled component that I'm aware of  (mislabeled _packaging, _yes, but not a component that actually had the wrong value printed on it) but it does happen occasionally.

As far as being anal about the tolerance of the component...    It depends on the circuit.     Most metal film resistors are spec'd at 1% tolerance, carbon film at 5%...   The old carbon comp resistors that everyone _loves _so much were spec'd at 20% tolerance.

Most of the audio circuits we deal with just aren't that critical...  When I worked in the consumer electronics repair industry we were generally fine with 10% wiggle room in most anything non-critical (critical being SMPS power supplies/regulation, tuned circuits, etc)...

If you _really_ want to get anal you can start worrying about the accuracy of your DMM....  For example the Fluke 117 specs state that the accuracy of the resistance measurement is 0.9%....   Combine that with the 1% of a metal film resistor and your 100K resistor could be off by an entire 1.9K!   That's NINETEEN *HUNDRED* OHMS. Before long we're sitting in a temperature/humidity controlled environment giving our equipment the proper 4 hour warm-up time before biasing a JFET in an overdrive circuit "to ear".


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## zgrav (May 19, 2020)

as noted, the troubleshooting topic show that incorrect parts installed in a build account for a lot of the problems.  it is not that any part is off value by a little bit, it is that the builder misread the part value that was supposed to be used or had a bag with the wrong part value written on it.   double checking the value with a DMM gives people a chance to double-check the part value.

that is also a much faster checking process than trying to find your part that is exactly in spec, fortunately.


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## chongmagic (May 19, 2020)

I have gotten into the habit of measuring each component before I install it. It really doesn't take that much extra time. 

I actually will firstly go through and get all the resistors I need and put them onto the board in groups. Then I do the same with the diodes, film caps, elec caps, etc. It really helps to cut down on errors, and then I know up front is a component is off.


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## untamedfrontier (May 19, 2020)

Considering how I have nothing better to do right now, and I just bought a new multimeter, I've been measuring everything. Really makes me feel like I'm doing a good job


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## Nostradoomus (May 19, 2020)

The only things I measure are transistors for hfe if the circuit needs specifics, JFETs/mosfets and once in a blue moon I’ll measure a cap or two but now that I buy decent ones it’s not really necessary. With resistors I just measure ten out of the 100 or so I usually buy and if they check out they go in the parts bin.


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## vigilante398 (May 19, 2020)

Wow, people actually do that? This is the first I'm hearing it. It's a lot faster to learn to read the color codes and trust the manufacturer. I know it isn't a very "mojo" line of thinking, but I've always been taught that if the value is within 10% of spec then you likely won't hear a difference. I mean plenty of commercial builders use 10% tolerance components anyway, a lot of caps are 20% tolerance. Do they all add up to making a difference between the units? Sure, but how many people can really hear the difference between a 100k resistor and a 98.1k resistor?


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## Ratimus (May 19, 2020)

If I get a big batch of parts or order from somewhere I haven't before, I measure a few just to make sure they didn't send me pure trash. From there, I find it much faster just to trust the writing or the color code than to measure everything. If I build something and it sounds weird, the time I spend troubleshooting and fixing that unit is still less than the time I would have spent measuring every part for every project before it that did work. Think about consumer or industrial electronics manufacturers- they don't measure every single part before loading it into a pick'n'place machine. Instead, they rely on QA to catch any problems. If you don't trust that a 1% 100 ohm resistor is really 99 to 101 ohms, buy them somewhere else. The 7 cents you save per project probably isn't worth the amount of time you waste measuring, to say nothing of the wasted money on out-of-spec garbage you end up not being able to use. However, your mileage may vary; germanium transistors need not apply.


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## zgrav (May 19, 2020)

For folks that are still building their first few pedals, or even their first few dozen, it makes a lot of sense to have them check the part number on a capacitor and the part values for resistors with a DMM before soldering them in place.   Those are the builds where a wrong part value is most likely to get used, and also the builders who are more likely to have trouble fixing the problems that show up in the builds.


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## steelplayer (May 19, 2020)

chongmagic said:


> I have gotten into the habit of measuring each component before I install it. It really doesn't take that much extra time.



I'm with chongmagic on this one -- for me, it cuts down on error and 9 times out of ten, my builds fire right up.

It's amazing too how many mislabeled parts I've received from Tayda, Mouser, Digikey, Newark, etc.


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## Barry (May 19, 2020)

I measure all my resistors as they go on and I spot check caps, and I do check transistors as I acquire them to be sure I didn't get fakes


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## HamishR (May 19, 2020)

I always check the value of resistors as I build.  Not so much because I think they may be out of spec but because it's a good way of double-checking the value. When I'm building an amp with 1W carbon film resistors I can tell you the value of each resistor easily.  But when populating a board with 1/4W metal film resistors it's all too easy to make mistakes.

I used to measure the caps but that got old. The values are much easier to read anyway! Transistors I'll check if hfe is important or they're Ge.


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## Crookedtooth (May 20, 2020)

Robert said:


> Of _course_ they are! Haven't you read their marketing hype?
> 
> Seriously though... I'm sure some do, but I'm also certain that some don't.
> 
> ...


Okay, phew! Haha! I was kind of mortified at the idea that I had totally botched a number of pedals by not measuring out each and every component, especially since they've all sounded like they should...or do they?????


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## Crookedtooth (May 20, 2020)

Glad to hear all of your hot takes. I'm glad I won't need to be THAT obsessive (but still mildly, amiright?) for the future. Thanks!


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## Gordo (May 20, 2020)

Like Chong I measure all my resistors. I use one of those cheap component testers. I'm not looking for value accuracy (unless something is way out of whack) because I suspect the accuracy of the tester is pretty loose. I'm just looking for a sanity check that I'm not reading the value wrong. For the small amount of extra time it takes it reduces my troubleshooting time to close to zero. 

I AM anal enough to make sure the color codes and markings all orient the same.


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## dlazzarini (May 20, 2020)

I just recently started measuring components. My ocd and ar started controlling me. What I’ve found so far is that I’m not too concerned about the 1% resistors. They’ve all been pretty consistent. The electros and film caps have have been hit or miss depending on the brand. Some of them seem to push that 20% to the extreme. I’ve found Nichicon electros to be the best of those I’ve tested. Even the Wima 5% have had a pretty generous sweep at times. The worst of the component’s that I’ve tested seem to be the mlcc’s in the smaller pF values, especially the ones I’ve got from Tayda.  These have had huge differences. I have no way that I know of to test transistors at the moment


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## Ratimus (May 20, 2020)

All good advice here. I'm not trying to shame anybody out of measuring components to any degree. If the effort to double check everything is less than the effort of troubleshooting and reworking, do what makes sense! Just don't feel you have to if you aren't seeing any benefit. Making sure resistor color codes are all oriented the same direction, however, is mandatory.


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## Crookedtooth (May 20, 2020)

dlazzarini said:


> I just recently started measuring components. My ocd and ar started controlling me. What I’ve found so far is that I’m not too concerned about the 1% resistors. They’ve all been pretty consistent. The electros and film caps have have been hit or miss depending on the brand. Some of them seem to push that 20% to the extreme. I’ve found Nichicon electros to be the best of those I’ve tested. Even the Wima 5% have had a pretty generous sweep at times. The worst of the component’s that I’ve tested seem to be the mlcc’s in the smaller pF values, especially the ones I’ve got from Tayda.  These have had huge differences. I have no way that I know of to test transistors at the moment


I totally hear you! I've had a few caps that were outside of their marked tolerance (which was a little disconcerting) but I think those were in that 20% range that is definitely pretty wide at times. 1% or even 5% I'll probably not sweat too much, but those 10% or more might need a double check for sure. Good call.
Which transistors are you trying to measure? There are a couple of quick and easy schematics you can build with some components and a 9v battery that are out there I could dig up if you need!


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## manfesto (May 20, 2020)

Robert said:


> The old carbon comp resistors that everyone _loves _so much were spec'd at 20% tolerance.



If you wrap a mil-spec resistor in fake carbon comp casing, does that give it *more* mojo, or less?









						Quies
					

Mix & Match: 15% off when ordering 10+ values on any 10 packs. Discount automatically applied during checkout. Molded metal film high stability, low noise, military specification resistors. Mil-R-10509 qualified DIN 44061 qualified 0.5% tolerance 100ppm 1/8 watt -26dB, 0.05μV/V Max operating...



					gorvadesign.com


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## dlazzarini (May 20, 2020)

Ratimus said:


> All good advice here. I'm not trying to shame anybody out of measuring components to any degree. If the effort to double check everything is less than the effort of troubleshooting and reworking, do what makes sense! Just don't feel you have to if you aren't seeing any benefit. Making sure resistor color codes are all oriented the same direction, however, is mandatory.


Yeah I don’t do it on a regular basis. I was just hard at it one day and the curiosity killed me and I thought to myself, let me check some of these out just for shits and giggles.


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## dlazzarini (May 20, 2020)

Crookedtooth said:


> I totally hear you! I've had a few caps that were outside of their marked tolerance (which was a little disconcerting) but I think those were in that 20% range that is definitely pretty wide at times. 1% or even 5% I'll probably not sweat too much, but those 10% or more might need a double check for sure. Good call.
> Which transistors are you trying to measure? There are a couple of quick and easy schematics you can build with some components and a 9v battery that are out there I could dig up if you need!


Nothing in particular at the moment. I was just stating that that was the only component besides IC’s that I don’t know how to test. I’m still in the greenhorn stage. I’d be interested in seeing this circuits you speak of. I’m on a mission to figure out what all of this stuff does together and how it all works. Starting to breadboard etc.


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## Crookedtooth (May 21, 2020)

dlazzarini said:


> Nothing in particular at the moment. I was just stating that that was the only component besides IC’s that I don’t know how to test. I’m still in the greenhorn stage. I’d be interested in seeing this circuits you speak of. I’m on a mission to figure out what all of this stuff does together and how it all works. Starting to breadboard etc.


Very much in the same boat! I'm actually in the midst of learning everything germanium, so here's where I started a few weeks back!
Test PNP Germaniums: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/ffselect.htm
Another PNP Germanium test: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/08/germanium-transistor-tester.html
Other Fuzz Face FAQs: http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/FuzzFaceFAQ/FFFAQ.htm

Also, this JFET matcher is sweet: JFET Matcher: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/07/greatly-improved-jfet-matcher.html


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## untamedfrontier (May 21, 2020)

Looks like I just got some homework


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## radioteacher (May 24, 2020)

I test most resistors, capacitors, diodes and transistors before install.  These are small builds and I have the time.  Plus, my eyes are much older and weaker now.  Most of my in stock parts are anywhere from 15 to 35 years old.  I have to buy a few parts to build the units but not many.  

I have a number of Ferrite Toriod cores.  It would be fun to have a kit that I could wind the inductor.  Maybe a Wah-Pedal. 

It is fun getting into kit building again.  

Thanks PedalPCB.com,

RT


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## Chuck D. Bones (May 26, 2020)

radioteacher said:


> I have a number of Ferrite Toroid cores.  It would be fun to have a kit that I could wind the inductor.  Maybe a Wah-Pedal.



I have wound plenty of toroid inductors and you definitely want to measure them.  Takes a lotta turns to get up to 500mH and you don't want to have to depend on counting the turns.  My first wah has a hand-wound 500mH MPP toroid inductor.


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## Chuck D. Bones (May 26, 2020)

I always check NOS transistors and Ge diodes before installation.  I usually trust my eyes with resistors, but if I'm unsure, the DVM is close by.  Occasionally I'll spot-check parts just for fun.  As PedalPCB said, tolerance is not critical in 99% of pedal circuits, octave-up being the exception where good balance yields a stronger octave tone.  We use metal film resistors because they are low-noise, not be cause they are tight-tolerance.  Remember the EHX rule: if you run out of something, grab whetever you have that's in the ballpark and install it.  You think they built that many variations of the BMP on purpose?

I guess I've been lucky, no mis-marked or out-of-spec parts from DigiKey, Mouser, Arrow, SB or Tayda.  ?

How many of you test your ICs before installing them?  Yeah, that's what I thought.  Too hard to do, so I don't either.  Even OCD has its limits.


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## BurntFingers (May 26, 2020)

Not only ehx. It's everyone. When I went to change the filter caps in a Laney amp I discovered about a third of the components were different to the schematic. I emailed them asking whether I should replace with the values on the schematic or the same as the ones already in the amp. They told me to use the schematic values, they just built them with "whatever was on the shelf" to get them out the door.


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## Nostradoomus (May 27, 2020)

I test ICs once in a blue moon if I think something is up. It helps to have a drawer full of unboxed circuits with sockets on them


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## soothsayer86 (May 28, 2020)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I always check NOS transistors and Ge diodes before installation.  I usually trust my eyes with resistors, but if I'm unsure, the DVM is close by.  Occasionally I'll spot-check parts just for fun.  As PedalPCB said, tolerance is not critical in 99% of pedal circuits, octave-up being the exception where good balance yields a stronger octave tone.  We use metal film resistors because they are low-noise, not be cause they are tight-tolerance.  Remember the EHX rule: if you run out of something, grab whetever you have that's in the ballpark and install it.  You think they built that many variations of the BMP on purpose?
> 
> I guess I've been lucky, no mis-marked or out-of-spec parts from DigiKey, Mouser, Arrow, SB or Tayda.  ?
> 
> How many of you test your ICs before installing them?  Yeah, that's what I thought.  Too hard to do, so I don't either.  Even OCD has its limits.


Just got my first mismarked parts from Tayda. Some 1n4001s in a bag labeled 1n5817... good thing I know the difference visually and caught it immediately. I am definitely going to be on the lookout from now on though.


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## Gordo (May 28, 2020)

Doesn't happen often but is a PITA when it does.  Glad you caught it before soldering any in.


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## 2204Stuff (Sep 18, 2020)

I measure everything! even this post ~ thread, how far my face is from the monitor.............


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## Chas Grant (Sep 18, 2020)

I spot check  components to verify the bag and components match. Then put them in their place in the parts bin. I don't measure each part as it goes on, I like that I can build 2 pedals with the exact same parts, but that each have their own sound. Kinda gives them a life of their own. Now I will measure hfe if the circuit requires certain hfe's for a transistor.


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## Crookedtooth (Sep 18, 2020)

Glad to see this thread is alive and kicking!  
In the midst of building a few pedals with 2n3904's, measured out a few and whew! that is some variance! I find it interesting that this can shift so much - any thoughts?
Also, is there a way you figure out which is the best suited hfe for these? Either according to the original specs or by looking at the circuit? Or is it just a matter of taste?
Also also *wink* - When using these in something like the Master Fuzz - should all the hfe's be around the same number, or can they go from Q1-Q4 ascending, or can they completely mix and match?
Curious what your methods are and processes! - Might move this to another thread but it kind of falls under the "How Anal To Be" category...right?
Cheers ya'll!


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## Chuck D. Bones (Sep 18, 2020)

Some people obsess about HFE and in most cases, if it's above 100 it just doesn't matter.  With germanium transistors, leakage is more important than HFE.  A few circuits are sensitive to HFE.  Testing or analysis will tell you which ones.  Example: I just built a Tube Bender and in that circuit, the only transistor parameters of any consequence are Q1 HFE the Vbe matching on Q3 and Q4.


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## jubal81 (Sep 18, 2020)

I'll chip in that I agree with what's already been said about passives in low-voltage pedals - if the value is in the ballpark, you're not going to hear a difference whether it's a $4 Sozo or a 4-cent greenie.

There are a few things I can get picky about, though: 
*
Germanium diodes: *They're a LONG way from 'ideal diodes.' Use a DMM to measure the reverse resistance across them. If it's less than at least a few Mohms, you need to account for that in your circuit. Just to note, though, that if they're hard clippers after an opamp like in a klone, it's less of an issue in that position. Big reason why some people swapping them out as clippers characterize them as being either 'bassy' or 'thin' - they're contributing to the RC filter.
*
Si Transistors:* Low-noise designated trannies are, well, less noisy in high-gain circuits. A Muff with BC550 or 2N5089, for example, will be noticeably less hissy but give you the same distortion.

*OpAmps: *Low-noise, rail-to-rail audio opamps are less hissy and have more headroom (TL072 is NOT one of these). To my ears, ancient opamps don't add mojo -- just noise. And maybe offset voltages.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Sep 18, 2020)

Well said.
I think the only bad thing about TL072s are they don't go rail-to-rail.  In some circuits, it just doesn't matter.  You can always get more headroom with higher rail voltage.  

Good comment on Ge diode leakage.  I wonder how many people built BMPs with Ge diodes only to be disappointed in the performance because the leakage was too high.


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## Pimpoftheyear70 (Oct 20, 2020)

I too measure all components before installation .
The extra time upfront saves you time trying to diagnose a problem later after you box it . 
I have caught several " Wrong " values a time or two ... worth it imo .


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## tcpoint (Oct 20, 2020)

I just check the color codes on the resistors (it doesn't take long to memorize the colors).  I double check the label on the caps.  I, usually, only measure critical transistors and diodes.  I still mess things up every once in awhile but I doubt that measuring would stop me from being a bonehead.


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## Dali (Oct 20, 2020)

I'm just happy that the pedal works... And I'm 99% stocking from Tayda.

Works for me


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## p_wats (Oct 20, 2020)

I've been doing more pre-measuring of resistors, as that's bitten me a few times, but otherwise I've been lucky to have good components etc. (mostly Tayda as well).


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## peccary (Dec 27, 2020)

I'm pretty new to this, with only a couple of vero builds under my belt. I started measuring everything a month or so ago after reading that people seem to have issues with their Tayda orders, and most of my parts (other than switches and jacks) have come from there. Most of those threads complaining about bad/out of spec. parts seem to be fairly old. In the time I have been measuring (only a month or so) I have found the Tayda Royal Ohm resistors to be extremely reliable and the no-name electro caps I got from ebay regularly come in well under their marked values. The Panasonics measure much better. The giant grab bag of greenies I got from ebay are pretty darn close to spec, though, so who knows. DIodes from Tayda have all tested well, too.

I feel that, especially with me learning along the way, measuring is a good thing. It will help me understand things better and be able to know for myself which parts to trust and which to not trust. It might take a little bit longer, but I have a little workflow I'm developing, which is helping. I also attached my DMM to the wall in front of me so I can just grab the leads, test, and the readout is right in front of me. Once I get more experience I expect I'll use it less, but till then I think it's good practice for a neophyte such as myself.

My very first ever build was a Woolly Mammoth clone on Vero where I didn't test a single thing, had no idea what I was doing, and built it all in one day because I was so impatient to get it going. The guts were (and still are) a disgusting mess of a rats nest. But that thing fired up and worked perfectly the first time, and has survived in my bag since about 2012 (I took a long tine off from that first build before getting started again). So who knows.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Dec 27, 2020)

I think you're doing the right thing testing parts.  
Regarding negative comments about Tayda, I'll remind you of something you already know: satisfied customers are much less likely to leave a positive review than disgruntled customers are to complain and leave negative reviews.  It's just human nature.  I have purchased a TON of stuff from Tayda and it's all been great except for two things: 1) they sold me "1N34A" diodes that were clearly Schottky. 2) some of their setscrew knobs do not contain threaded inserts.  Everything else: transistors, resistors, caps, ICs, knobs, enclosures, Vero boards, yadda yadda yadda are all good and I continue to buy from them.


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## chongmagic (Jan 15, 2021)

I have purchased a crap ton from Tayda and have really never had any issues. That being said for more hard to obtain components I go with Small Bear and Pedalhacker.


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## Barry (Jan 15, 2021)

I'm not a fan of Tayda's knobs or their Lumberg DC jack knock off's other than those no issues


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## chongmagic (Jan 15, 2021)

Barry said:


> I'm not a fan of Tayda's knobs or their Lumberg DC jack knock off's other than those no issues



I get my knobs and jacks mainly from Love My Switches or Small Bear, they are much better quality than Tayda.


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## Barry (Jan 15, 2021)

chongmagic said:


> I get my knobs and jacks mainly from Love My Switches or Small Bear, they are much better quality than Tayda.


ditto


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## Barry (Jan 15, 2021)

BYOC has decent knobs and pricing too


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## mdc (Jan 15, 2021)

I have yet to receive anything mislabeled or mis-shipped from Tayda; in the cases where I thought I'd been giving something incorrect, I went back and checked my order and shockingly enough discovered that I'd just ordered the wrong thing. Hello, momentary on-off-on mini toggles. 

The only bad luck I've had with tayda parts is with 3pdts and switches being DOA or failing prematurely after install. It's frustrating but I can hardly blame tayda for the shoddy construction of a mechanical part that I specifically ordered because it was the [homer voice] second to least expensive option.


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