# STICKMAN'S LETS LEARN CNC THREAD



## Stickman393 (Aug 15, 2021)

Alternate thread titles:

CNC for the barely conscious
I'm afraid of CAD
WATCH ME MAKE STICK FIGURES IN ALUMINUM AND ZINC GUYZ

First things first: I picked up a desktop 3018 CNC mill/router.  I picked it up for 3 bills on amazon: This thing is extremely limited in it's work area: no one's going to be making any top-side input/output/power routes on one of these, it's limited to a height of something around 70MM.  I may be able to swap the collar for a shorter one I picked up, but there's no way I'll be able to do the top jacks with this one unless I make some serious modifications.

Which...I already own a normal mini mill and a drill press.  If I have to manually line up my holes, THATS OK.  It's got a decent spindle on it, and seems to be a decent small scale all aluminum chassis.






						MYSWEETY CNC 3018 MAX Engraver Machine, GRBL Control DIY CNC Machine with 200W Spindle Motor, 3 Axis Pcb Milling Machine, Wood Router Engraver with Offline Controller and ER11 and 5mm Extension Rod - - Amazon.com
					

MYSWEETY CNC 3018 MAX Engraver Machine, GRBL Control DIY CNC Machine with 200W Spindle Motor, 3 Axis Pcb Milling Machine, Wood Router Engraver with Offline Controller and ER11 and 5mm Extension Rod - - Amazon.com



					www.amazon.com
				




So...I'm gonna be putting this thing through it's paces.  I JUST figured out how to take vector art, turn it into Gcode, and get it properly interpreted by the machine.  There are quite a few pitfalls on this path, and I'll be doing a little write up in the near future here.

That being said...I'm gonna start EASY here.  2D engraving.  Use the CNC with a 60 degree Vee bit to mark my holes and drill afterwards.

Later on, I'll probably see if this thing has the oomph while using a small end mill to cut out my controls.

I'd like to use this thing to generate a marking template for the top side jacks, and I'm definitely going to be using this to make up some single sided PCBs.

MAYBE, EVENTUALLY, I'll get into 3D design.  But by that point I may need to upgrade my machine...probably by adding ballscrews and steppers to my Harbor Freight rebranded Sieg X2.

But for now...a preview.


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## fig (Aug 15, 2021)

You had me at STICKMAN.
It appears to have enough motor to work with aluminum well.
Does the motor adjust vertically inside the housing?


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## Paradox916 (Aug 15, 2021)

ooooo... something shiny....I’m with ya bro!... I want a CNC!


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## Feral Feline (Aug 15, 2021)

Egad, such a CAD...


Want all the toys tools.


Darn, I was going to call *my* Calamity "Rude Awakening".


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## Stickman393 (Aug 15, 2021)

fig said:


> You had me at STICKMAN.
> It appears to have enough motor to work with aluminum well.
> Does the motor adjust vertically inside the housing?


Sure does!  I've got it up and level with the bottom of the clamp right now.

I'm probably going to end up pulling all the screws one by one and applying red loctite too.  Something tells me these are gonna wabble loose real quick.


Feral Feline said:


> Egad, such a CAD...
> 
> 
> Want all the toys tools.
> ...


This is actually V2 for me...

I was using some crapppppppy J201's from evilbay on my first version.  It didn't work out.  I stickman smashed the board.  Now I've got a collection of about 55 j201s, and I'm using my little JFET tester to select for ultra low IDSS...oh, and transistor sockets.  Started doing that on all my builds now.

Lessons learned...after running my first CNC program...





Well...close. Pretty close.

Immediately noticeable flaws: those circles aren't very circle-y.  The "I" in "Grind" kinda blended into the "N", and the exclamation point in the "AHHH!" blended into the last H.

Letter spacing is important.  We'll go over that later in inkscape.

Also, I was using a 60 degree carbide V engraving bit...and I believe I set the depth of cut a bit too deep.  So deep, so so deep, eh, (Clipping...anybody?  Love me some Daveed Diggs)

I'll get into the nitty gritty soon...but for now, behold the mildly misshapen goodness.


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## fig (Aug 15, 2021)

You're gonna need some more boxes. How many practice boxes would you trade for an original Stickman pedal?


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## Stickman393 (Aug 15, 2021)

fig said:


> You're gonna need some more boxes. How many practice boxes would you trade for an original Stickman pedal?


Shoot dude, send me a message.  I'd be happy to build one for ya


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## Stickman393 (Aug 17, 2021)

Aite...little update for today.

It's interesting how little unseen things can trip ya up.  With that in mind, I present...the uneven 125b thickness.

I should have taken pictures...this little amazon box that I was using sloped down from top to bottom a hair under .25mm.  Damn...

A quick pass with my mini mill and a fly cutter fixed that right up.  But for future reference I'm gonna look around for a good, cheap source for flatter enclosures.


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## Paradox916 (Aug 17, 2021)

I guess you can’t assume everything is square and tru.... I can see how that would be easy to do. It’s just not something you initially think about... untill something like that happens. But at least you figured it out and know how to deal with it now.... good stuff bro.


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## Stickman393 (Aug 18, 2021)

Today's lesson: Rigidity, feeds & speeds.

I've been reading into the differences between High Speed Machining and Traditional Machining.

The basic idea: each cutter and material combination has an optimal range of "feeds" (meaning how quickly the cutter moves across the workpiece) and "speeds" (the RPM of the spindle).

Too fast, you end up generating chips faster than your cutter's flutes (EG, recesses) can clear them, which generates friction and heat.  This will break your cutter bit real quick.

Too slow, and you end up nibbling away at the material, pressing *into* and burnishing the material instead of cutting into it.  This will generate friction and heat, could potentially harden the material that you're cutting before you even cut it, and will lead to bit failure.

Ideally, you want to take as deep of a cut per pass as possible, to utilize as much of the cutter's edge as possible, but you MUST balance that with your feeds and speeds.  A deeper cut will require slower feeds and speeds, a shallower cut will require faster feeds and speeds.

Notice how I said "ideally"?  Well, that refers to traditional machining...if you have a cheap CNC3018 KIT like I do, you DO NOT have an ideal machine.

In particular, there is considerable slop on the z axis and a little in the x axis.  These cheapie CNCs are NOT very Ridgid.

I will be addressing the Rigidity issue later on with some modifications to my machine...but there's only so much that I can do in that regard.

So what is High Speed Machining?  Simply put: it is a technique that was born out of necessity.  The big, super rigid machines that could handle the big jobs using traditional machining techniques can only do one job at a time.  Smaller, less rigid machines would sit idle for long periods while machinists would wait for a job to finish.

Someone eventually said: "hey, why don't we use one of these smaller machines to do these jobs, but reduce the depth of cut and increase cutting speed?"

After everybody got done laughing at him, he went and set up a smaller machines out of spite, because fuck those people.  He was able to make the smaller machine produce, at which point someone else said they had the idea first, took all the credit for the be discovery, got a pat on the head, and the shop owner made a bunch more money.

Ahem...

So, aside from satirical stories, HSM has great utility when using a small CNC3018.  Small cuts, fast speeds, fast feeds.


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## Plate of Shrimp (Aug 18, 2021)

Thanks for the expos&eacute;.  Have not put aluminum under my 3018 yet and was wondering.


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## Stickman393 (Aug 18, 2021)

My first two passable attempts.

The rude awakening is likely gonna get a light coat of spray paint and a gentle sanding.  The acrylic paint pen I was using flakes off, but I wanted to do this to add contrast.

I've been fighting a little with my machine...it has a slight preference to cut deeper at higher X values.  I likely need to adjust the bed a little bit...were talking fractions of a millimeter here, but enough to be noticeable.  

The newest one is for a VIIB.  Why?  Vibrato...trill...what else trills?  Oh, cats do.  ohh!  I'll name it after my little buddy, KK, may he rest in peace.

Plus, best damned cat name ever.

The exclamation point is a little fucked, I'm using a new vise that's a bit taller and I forgot to reset my retraction legnth.  Woof.  It came out decent, though.


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## Stickman393 (Aug 22, 2021)

TODAY: simple CNC software, free edition:

FOR a powerful vector-based image file creation tool: INKSCAPE.  The Hershey Text extension is a GREAT tool for creating true single-line fonts.

Single-line fonts, you say?  Yes, most fonts translated into vectors will trace the OUTSIDE of the letters, leaving you with hollow, bubble letters that take up a lot of space and may not be the aesthetic you're after.  Single-line fonts can be traced using...you guessed it...A single line.  Great for engraving purposes.

FOR a simple, intuitive .SVG to G-code translator software, carbide create free is astoundingly good.  You can even do the design elements in carbide create, but honestly I think it's worth spending the time learning Inkscape: it's far more flexible for the design stage.

For controlling my CNC3018...right now I'm using Candle.  Free, open source, interfaces with GRBL controllers easily, transfers all data over USB.

I DO plan on exploring other software options as my desires to create more complex artwork featuring stick figures grow...I do find certain elements of Inkscape to be awfully limiting, and I have to say that if I could get my creations in affinity designer to import into Carbide Create more easily I'd be thrilled...

That's it for today...I'm hoping I can get some kind of beginning-to-end step by step guide.  That may come with time...


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## Stickman393 (Aug 31, 2021)

Well my friends, time for an update.

My CNC has been out of commission for about a week and a half...I've been working on figuring out how to make a manual control for my z-axis and I've been coming up short as of yet.

But...I was able to make an important upgrade to my setup: squeezing every little bit of ass out of my spindle.

It's NOT convenient.  Not at all.  But the 360W 48V power supply I slapped on there is letting me top out my spindle speed and making use of all the motor has to offer.

Before...well...the stock power supply was shared between the spindle and the steppers.  Not an ideal setup...sharing power supplies opens a whole bag o worms.  Better to keep the stock PS on the controller...leaves plenty of headroom for the steppers, instead of trying to deal with a 200W spindle and 3 roughly 30 watt steppers. 

BUT...it kinda sucks right now.  Looks like the overload protection on my new PS is particularly fast acting, so I have to give the motor a soft start by turning the power on and using the speed potentiometer on my spindle controller to get the motor up to full speed.  That...and I have to multi task.  I have to press "Send" on the computer as I ramp up the speed potentiometer...yeesh.  gotta fix that.  Maybe I can use a maximum speed output signal from my GRBL CNC controller to trigger a 24vdc relay...and use the normally open contacts to connect power to the spindle.  Still need to figure out how to give this thing a soft start though...might just need to buy a better motor controller.

Although...holy hell.  A quality power supply makes an immediately clear difference.  That spindle spins with authority.

Next on the list...I gotta figure out how to configure my starting Z height.  I've got a probe that I plan to use... To be continued.

Here's a pic of the madness, and my latest design for a Boss Hyper Fuzz clone, PCB courtesy of AION.


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## Stickman393 (Sep 6, 2021)

Alright, Ive been experimenting a bit recently.

First off...double sided tape is your friend.  I was using a vise for a bit...but for engraving work, it's not really needed.  With some good double-sided woodworking tape, my enclosures stay PUT while I'm milling.  No problem.

I'm still running into rigidity issues with my setup...the z axis is just...gah...a pain.  I just got some aluminum stock for making new vertical rails...hopefully an upgrade there will allow for better performance.

One thing for certain...don't go over your skis.  I tried increasing my depth of cut slightly on this latest attempt, and it did NOT go well.  Too bad.  Now, though, I've come up with a backup plan for moments like this.


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## Gordo (Sep 6, 2021)

This is an interesting read. Each project gets progressively better as you get more in depth with the machine. I'm on a bit of a parallel track with my laser.


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## Stickman393 (Sep 7, 2021)

Gordo said:


> This is an interesting read. Each project gets progressively better as you get more in depth with the machine. I'm on a bit of a parallel track with my laser.


Schwweeeet!  What's the specs on your laser?  Been considering one of those...


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## dmnCrawler (Sep 7, 2021)

Gordo said:


> This is an interesting read. Each project gets progressively better as you get more in depth with the machine. I'm on a bit of a parallel track with my laser.


Start doing writeups. I have the 3018 with the spindle and the laser and want to start getting into using both. I really want to see if I can use the laser to burn off the powdercoat.


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## Stickman393 (Sep 13, 2021)

Alright!  Progress!

I've been looking into ways to fix up my depth problems when engraving out-of-level surfaces.

And lo, I have found ye.

A free program called open CNC pilot will take the G-code written by carbide create and adjust the Z depth based off the actual dimensions of the work piece 

It does this by probing a matrix of points.  Connect two conductors to the z axis probe connector on the GRBL board, connect one to the enclosure and one to the actual bit.

It cycles through the point matrix and maps out the height of your workpiece...and then allows you to adjust your cutting depths dynamically, depending on the position of the cut.

It replaces candle as a GRBL controller too...pretty slick.


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## Stickman393 (Sep 14, 2021)

Viola...the thermionic punisher.

Erm, tube driver.  PCB courtesy TH custom effects.  That window took like 30 minutes for my little 3018 to mill out.  Woof.

Gonna attack the enclosure with a wire disc, maybe spray some bleach on it and let it soak up the sun.  Then hit it with a blowtorch.  Throw it off an 8 story building.  And then a bomb.  Fuck it, let's napalm that shit.

Little spray paint and some coarse steel wool to really make the engraving pop.

Not sure exactly what I'm gonna do with the window. Yet.  I've got some 2MM thick glass slides coming in...that would likely need some padding and support in order to keep it from breaking.

Although..I have considered keeping it open-air.  Would CERTAINLY help with keeping the enclosure at a reasonable temperature.  Regardless, I was planning on throwing on a few threaded sintered bronze filters on the sides...having the top open would really help with inducing a convective draft through the pedal enclosure.

Although...quick math here...the pedal draws between 300-500ma at 9V input.  So, it's about a 4.5 watt device, and produces about 15 BTU/hr.  Not insane...but yeah, a little ventilation will go a long ways here.


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## Gordo (Sep 14, 2021)

Continuing to crush it.  That looks very nice!!


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## dmnCrawler (Sep 18, 2021)

Can you give any recommendations on bits that work well? I am also interested in depth, feed and RPM used with those bits. I would expect it is different for then you are milling out a window vs doing labeling or graphics. Any tips are greatly appreciated.


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## Stickman393 (Sep 18, 2021)

Absolutely!

I've settled on carving at a final depth of 0.1mm using a feed of about 250-300 mm/min using a 0.25mm-0.50mm double fluted solid carbide ball end bit at 12000 RPM.

I set my depth of cut to 0.05mm...but a bit of warning here: you'll either want to depth compensate your Z axis as I did in my last post, or make sure your work surface is completely flat and parallel.  A small deviation can ruin your day real fast.  If it gets too hard to cut and your spindle starts dragging, you end up getting really ragged edges and your stepper motors start skipping steps...circles turn into lumpy ovals.  It's a problem.  The nice thing about the program that I mentioned in my previous post is that it offers a feed override...you can speed things up to 200% of the programmed value, or slow them down significantly with a couple of taps.

Part of that is specific to my setup, though.  The biggest issue right now is that my Z axis has SIGNIFICANT play along the X axis.  The spindle holder is not particularly well designed.  So as soon as it encounters resistance on the X axis it starts to drag and jump, so some kind of cutting lubricant is ABSOLUTELY necessary.  I'm in the process of upgrading my spindle mount though...we'll see how the 300 watt motor handles the work.  I'll try increasing to a 0.1mm depth of cut at that point.

I've mostly been using the CNC for engraving, including marking locations for manual drilling.  I'd love to eventually get it to a place where I can carve out the holes though.  The little window was accomplished with the same 0.50mm ball tip bit...but I don't recommend this.  The taper on the bit makes this a real slow process.

In fact, I'd recommend using a single flute bit on a machine like this for actually CUTTING the aluminum.  The biggest problem on a 3018 is that the spindles tend to spin too fast and the feeds tend to run too slow for cutting aluminum with a 2-4 flute bit.  A single flute 1/8" bit will work best on these to maintain consistent chip formation without rubbing.

I'll be trying out a 1/4" 60⁰ V bit soon too...doing my homework on potentially swapping to a brushless 500-600 watt motor as well.

This thing has NO issue cutting through HDPE at a .25mm cut.  Probably plenty of headroom there.


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## ~nick~ (Sep 19, 2021)

I really appreciate this thread, Stickman! I'm actually looking into a CNC. I'm debating throwing down 900+ on a 32" by 32" working range CNC from Vevor, called the Evolution 4. i want to be able to attach an A5 laser to it, though, and I'm not sure the mounting would allow it. I have seen some portable laser engraving stuff. spray paint black over aluminum and laser engrave it to make fine indentations and fill with white paint? What do you think?

Anyway, I dig this thread. Subscribed, Liked, Watched, and hitting the bell 

I'm glad i read your issues with the motor. Hence the going straight to upgrade to a 32"x32" mill. if you lay it out diagonally, you could even mill a one piece headless guitar/bass! Imagine all the multiscale fretboard slots with machine accuracy.. Imagine the extreme carve tops..

But yeah, PCBs! haha. Might be better to just buy the extrusions and stuff and build it myself? 900-1000 is a lot of scratch. 😱

Have you experimented with different bits? finer bits? Or does the motor need to spin faster for the smaller bits? So much to learn. What about upgrading the frame and the motor?

Are there any resources you'd recommend for beginners to check out?

I wish you well in your CNC endeavors!

You could make pcbs, enclosures, enclosure engraving plates like Dan Drive does, make SMD solder paste templates, maybe even custom knobs out of wood and swirled glitter epoxy! dang, gonna have to write that one down. The downside is the mill time for a single pcb probably doesn't merit a CNC strictly for profit. But perhaps just for fast prototyping turnaround of your own ideas.

Cheers Y'all!


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## Stickman393 (Sep 19, 2021)

Truthfully, anytime I've found a resource that has helped me I've tried to post it in this thread.  Theres a lot of information out there...and only so much or it applies to the 2.5D work of engraving.

For actual 3D work, I recommend getting a free "personal use only" license for Fusion 360.  It's a DENSE program, and I've only begun to use it for fiddling around with other people's designs.  It's great for 3d printer type stuff as well....but it looks like the learning curve is going to be a bit more intense than the rest of what I've posted about here.

I haven't gotten around to picking up a laser yet...I may not for a while.  Truthfully, it seems like it would be a major pain to swap out a spindle and a laser.

I've done plenty of experimentation with bits.. personally, I like the ultra-fine ball end bits because the actual line thickness can be a problem when engraving text.  If the letters or lines are spaced too closely together, I've found that my bits have a tendency towards drifting into the previously milled groove.

As far as my setup goes, I'm getting close to finishing my initial Z-axis spindle mount upgrade.  Only problem here is that I need to make a spacer for the x axis lead screw anchor...unfortunately the one I bought doesn't line up perfectly with my existing frame.  It is what it is.

IMO, Building one from scratch would require some milling experience.  It would be remarkably difficult to cut parts and assemble a square, rigid frame unless you're well versed in how a CNC machine operates.  Little unforseen problems arise all the time...I've certainly learned that with my spindle mount upgrade.

Honestly, at this point it probably would have been better if I had just plopped down the extra cash for a better unit...but what I do appreciate about the buy cheap and upgrade path is that you end up learning a lot along the way.  What I don't appreciate, though, is not having the time to actually work on the damned thing.  So there's that.

Truthfully, my wood knobs I've always done manually, on a lathe.  But it's feasible to do one on a CNC too, if one has a 4th rotary axis.  The possibilities are indeed endless...hell, one could even make their own guitar and bass hardware if one was so inclined out of brass or aluminum.  I plan on doing that myself here for an 8 string...


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## Stickman393 (Sep 20, 2021)

OK: UPGRADED Z AXIS IN THE HOUSE.

HOLY $-@+

WAY better.  The added rigidity let's the bits just TEAR through aluminum.

I'll be revising my feeds and speeds over the next few days here methinks.


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## Kroars (Sep 26, 2021)

This is rad! Great thread Stickman!!


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## Stickman393 (Sep 26, 2021)

Just got my new PWM controller in...I dig it.  Soft start, programmable ramp times, min and max speed, digital interface with one touch control.  We'll see how she performs under load.

I'm probably going to add a volt and amp panel meter here too...just to make sure I'm not driving the motor too hard.  Probably a good idea to monitor the temp inside the enclosure too, if it gets too hot I can always add more vents: I've got one on top and one on bottom.  Hot environments are NOT good for power supplies.  This thing is a 350 watter ONLY at design ambient conditions, as is true of most switching power supplies.  Raise the temp too high and they derate.

I slapped it all together in a cheap aluminum enclosure from Amazon...it's certainly not the most rigid thing in the world, but it's big and more than adequate for the job.

Oh, and one more thing: WOODWORKERS DOUBLE-SIDED STICKY TAPE.

I forgot to talk about this earlier.  For simple engraving and light HSM, and probably laser work, this stuff is AWESOME!  No need for a vise: just slap it on the enclosure, make sure it's square, and go.

Just remember...LIGHT passes.  Now that my spindle is more rigid I started getting over my skis and found out just how much this stuff could handle.  More than you would think.

I'm starting to plan my next CNC builds...I'll likely keep a smaller form factor for anything that has to do with milling metal: it's just MUCH easier to keep a frame stable and rigid when the geometry is smaller.  Leverage is the enemy here.

I'm also wondering how difficult it would be to design a 2-axis CNC horizontal step driller for completely automating the power and in/out drilling.  That'd be slick.

Wood?  I plan on building up something big enough to do guitar shit...but that'll have to be in the future.


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## Paradox916 (Sep 26, 2021)

I will admit I haven’t been following this thread, I just don’t have the time or means to get into CNC (although I always wanted to) you have covered some serious ground though! Keep killing it! And I will live vicariously through you.


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## Stickman393 (Sep 26, 2021)

Appreciate the kind words y'all.

One fantastic resource that I've been digging into recently: openbuids.com.

They've got prebuilt machines, parts, example DIY builds, and I'm probably going to pick up their black box motion controller at some point here.

There's a WEALTH of knowledge there.


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## Stickman393 (Sep 29, 2021)

At this point in time I've worked out most of the kinks and can achieve repeatable results in both engraving and milling holes in enclosures.  The z-probe height mapping functionality in open CNC pro works wonderfully, and I've been able to get around the non-conductive surface of a painted enclosure by carefully laying a sheet of aluminum or copper tape on top of the enclosure and adjusting the final depth by about .1 or so to account for the thickness of the tape and the paint. Something interesting that I've observed, though, is that I'm not quite using my spindle to it's full potential.

II'm using less than 1/3rd of my FLA with typical operations : I.E. what the machine can handle.  So...that means that I'm operating my 300 watt motor at about 85 watts under load.  That's about a 15 watt increase from when the motor is unloaded.

Why?  Part of it is I'm using small bits and shallow cuts that require less power to perform.  Once again...the real issue I'm running into here is RIGIDITY.

IF THE MACHINE WAS MORE RIGID, I would easily be able to make .25mm cuts per pass in aluminum.  As the machine flexes, though it causes the motor to tilt and skip.  Not because of the power of the steppers or the spindle, but because the force required to do so exceed what the actual chassis can withstand.

Honestly, as I've been making little tweaks I've discovered that some of my fixes have led to unforseen issues.  My new z axis is indeed more rigid, but it ALSO places the spindle motor further away from the Y-axis slide.  It's a longer lever, and that is limiting the new z-axis' structural advantage.

Truthfully, that's the disadvantage of most of these 3018 machines.  Linear rods only supported on the edges, short bearings that have to be located and supported a fixed distance from the platform they support...there are little fixes, and certainly better and worse implementations, but the fact remains that 90% of the cheaper models are going to struggle to push enough to take advantage of a 300 watt motor like mine.

That said...I'm liking the design that OpenBuilds adopted, a gantry plate, a low profile lead screw nut and simple wheels on bearings.  Sure...you won't be milling cold rolled steel or titanium on something like this with any real efficiency, but I'm probably going to be slowly building up another machine using parts like the photo attached.

That's all for today, cheers.


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## Travis (Oct 3, 2021)

Hi everyone,!

Can someone recomend some better option than 3018 CNC?

I wanna make some PCBs and engraving my pedals


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## Stickman393 (Oct 3, 2021)

The 3018 is mostly just a form factor definition, roughly 300mmx180mm...but they generally all have similar features.

That said: you may benefit from choosing a smaller unit, for instance, a 1310 will benefit from the fact that it's working area is much smaller, thus a build similar to mine would end up being FAR more rigid.  Levers increase force on an exponential scale the longer they get, and the inverse is also true.

Otherwise, for something that is a pick-up-and-go machine, look for machines that have fully supported linear rails.  I had posted a good example of this earlier, the  OpenBuilds C-beam.  I picked up a 20mm rail recently, and after a little fiddling it's solid as a rock.  I'll attach some other examples at the bottom.

Just from looking at it...this one MIGHT work out for some basic PCB and pedal work.  I dunno about the height clearance or the ability to use it for super sized enclosures...but it looks pretty solidly designed, might be a good platform for learning GRBL.



			Amazon.com
		


But as things get larger, you really need to be mindful of the frame. Aluminum is soft and relatively easy to mill, but it's still metal, and it's gonna push back against the cutter.

I would say there are two paths here:

For those like myself who are remarkably stubborn, it's OK to go a little cheaper and gather experience.

For those that will ultimately abandon the machine if it doesn't do what they want it to the first time they power it up...don't buy a machine off Amazon.  Save money, get a carbide 3d nomad, or an openbuilds.com machine.


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## Stickman393 (Dec 5, 2021)

It's been a while since I posted, mostly because I've been fighting with my machine.

The z and x axis play were KILLING me on my projects.  Lots of failures.  Consistency was becoming a problem.

So...I had to put my nose to the grindstone and figure out what the hell I had to do in order to get my z axis flex down to a manageable level.

That involved bolting some 2040 aluminum profile to the sides of my Z axis, acting as outer guides with a little UHMWPE tape to reduce friction.  It certainly helps with the side-to-side play, but the front to back play was STILL a HUGE problem.

So....I made a few alterations to the frame and added a bar-type bearing to the back 2040 rail that bolted directly onto the Z cartridge.  This took a bunch of prototypes and a couple of pieces of aluminum that I made on my mini-mill.  It's big, it's bulky, but it got my front to back flex down to a reasonable level...and now I can continue moving forward with my designs.

Here is is cutting a plate that I'm using to repair a broken Ibanez weeping demon:


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## Stickman393 (Jan 30, 2022)

Well folks...

I got one project done with the above setup, at which point I said "FUCKKKKKK THIS" and ripped my machine apart again.

I've been at home for the past week nursing a back injury, so that gave me some serious time to put towards making this thing more capable of cutting aluminum.

The result of my efforts is below:

Basically...the only thing that is original is the base and Y axis.  I switched to C-beams on the X and Z, upgraded to NEMA 23 motors, which necessitated upgrading the motor driver's too.

Wellllll...fuck it.  I might as well upgrade the controller too.  So I'm now running GRBLHAL on a 32-bit Teensy 4.1 controller with a breakout board designed for up to 5 axis work, and a whole bunch of other bells and whistles.

Plus...I was able to snag a 600 watt brushless spindle for like, 60 bucks, so why not slap that on there too.  Which necessitated upgrading the power supply for the spindle and buying a BLDC motor controller...no hall sensors on this thing, so it's torque curve likely isn't going to be quite as badass as it could be when I turn down the speed, but it still should perform better than a brushed motor would.

Ah, yeah, and those steppers.  Wellllll...I would likely have been pushing the 250watt rating on my original power supply with these new motors...any regulated, switching power supply needs to have considerable headroom if used to power steppers.  Back EMF from those motors spinning up can cause the regulators to clamp down on delivered current...buttttttt, an unregulated linear power supply certainly does not have that issue.

So yeah, the voltage is gonna shift around a bit as the motors spin up and down.  BUT...they're motors.  They care more about current than they do about voltage.  The 500vA 24V transformer I have going into a 35A bridge rectifier with 42,300uF of capacitance will certainly meet those current demands.  Roughly 36vdc at zero load, I threw on a 15 amp breaker...I could have bumped that up a bit, but with my current load I don't expect to pass that.

That, plus a nifty universal aluminum plate that I designed to sit on the CNC bed and hold enclosures by their built-in screw holes.  Got most of the sizes that I'll be using on there, horizontal and vertical orientation.  My previous setup did that one.  Took for friggin ever, didn't come out real clean-like, but good enough.

Picture:


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## Stickman393 (Jan 30, 2022)

As a quick and dirty little test of my new rig, I slapped together design for a pre drilled Tayda enclosure...possibly for an effects layouts osscilot board that I had in my back log.  Holes might be a little off for that though.

Love it. Not a hint of flex in the spindle.  Dig it.  Didn't even use lubricant.


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## fig (Jan 30, 2022)

Kneepads...perfect touch!

Killer resolution.


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## Stickman393 (Jan 30, 2022)

I was thinking more like...knee boobies.  Or an indication of shimmying away...

My fiance is the artist in the family   .

Now that I've gotten this thing working to an acceptable level I've got an idea for what imma make you, figgy.

Gonna have to be a surprise, though.


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## fig (Jan 30, 2022)

Stickman393 said:


> I've got an idea for what imma make you, figgy.


30 years younger, better-looking, and a MUCH better guitar player?


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## vigilante398 (Jan 31, 2022)

Stickman393 said:


> Well folks...
> 
> I got one project done with the above setup, at which point I said "FUCKKKKKK THIS" and ripped my machine apart again.
> 
> ...


As my dear sweet wife would say: "At what point do you admit you bought the wrong machine and just throw the whole thing away?" 

Progress looks great!


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## Stickman393 (Feb 11, 2022)

vigilante398 said:


> As my dear sweet wife would say: "At what point do you admit you bought the wrong machine and just throw the whole thing away?"
> 
> Progress looks great!



In truth, had I just shelled out at the beginning for something like an openbuilds kit, I would have likely spent FAR less on this particular venture...

But...I'm simultaneously always thirsty for knowledge, and an absolute cheapskate.  So overall...I'd say the journey has been worth it.

CNC is the sort of thing that is best digested in little bits and pieces.  New vocabulary to be learned, new skills, picking up little things like simple Gcode commands, macros, probing...

And there's enough variability in machines that what works for one may not work for another.  Say you have a particular problem...like "ah, shit, I need to figure out my zero points here, but my workpiece is non-conductive!".

Well...there's a few different ways to handle something like that.  You might buy an aluminum plate that comes with a set of macros that include a g-code command that makes your machine say "NO.  no.  I ain't doing that shit".  Well...then you gotta figure out what the problem is.

It can be a headache, but it's scratching my itch for intellectual stimulation.

As of right now...I had a little hiccup with my X-axis: I couldn't get the damn thing to move when commanding individual 0.1mm travel commands.

I think I've got it narrowed down to a poor setup on my part...the eccentric spacers on my v slot wheel bearings were a bit too tight, and I needed to lube up the lead screw.  I took the opportunity to add an extra plate on the backside of the gantry and four extra wheels to share the load.

More creations to come...


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## Stickman393 (Feb 15, 2022)

Time for a quick tech lesson.

My linear power supply is a mean machine.  It pumps out AMPS.  But...it also...kinda...trips the internal breaker every time I switch it on.

With that huge bank of capacitors, the inrush when I power this thing on is no joke.  Which has me concerned...sure, it's annoying having to reset the breaker, but good practice would be to slow that down a bit to avoid undue stress on the components.

So...I'm gonna use a little HVAC trick.  This is a delay-on-make timer.  Apply voltage across it, and it will trigger an adjustable countdown.  At the end of that countdown, a switch between the terminals closes.





So...the idea here is pretty simple.  When I switch the circuit on, current will travel through a 10 watt 100 ohm resistor.  This will limit the inrush current to a large extent...but I don't want the resistor actually in the circuit when im running the power supply.

So, that's where the SPST switch in the diagram below comes into play.  That is my delay-on-make timer.  I'll set it for something like five seconds so the caps can slowly build a charge.  After that point in time, the switch will close, the relay coil will become energized, and the current limiting resistor will be taken out of the circuit.

This is a simplified version, I'm actually going to do the timer control on the 24vac side...just cause that's what I have on hand.


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## fig (Feb 15, 2022)

Power to the People! (just not all at once). Similar to the function of a hall-effect sensor?


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## vigilante398 (Feb 15, 2022)

The breaker in my garage was just barely enough to run my CNC, but if someone opened the garage door in the middle of a job the CNC would go down and I would lose whatever I was working on. Eventually I want to get thicker wire run so I can swap for a beefier breaker, but until then I hooked the CNC up to a UPS backup. It isn't enough to run the machine for a long time, but it's enough to hold it up in case of the line going down so I don't lose my work.

When I run my curing oven the lights still flicker, so maybe I should get that checked out by a professional.


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## Paradox916 (Feb 15, 2022)

@vigilante398 so you CNC and UV print your own enclosures?


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## vigilante398 (Feb 15, 2022)

Paradox916 said:


> @vigilante398 so you CNC and UV print your own enclosures?


Yessir, CNC and powdercoating setups in the garage, UV printer in the basement. My wife is a patient woman.


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## Paradox916 (Feb 15, 2022)

What uv printer do you have if you don’t mind me asking?  If it’s over $1000 don’t worry about it🤣


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## vigilante398 (Feb 15, 2022)

Paradox916 said:


> What uv printer do you have if you don’t mind me asking?  If it’s over $1000 don’t worry about it🤣


Alas with the printer, shipping, and a set of inks it was about $3,000. So if you have a business entity set up for pedal building it's tax deductible, but even then I'm not sure I would recommend it  Tayda does great work for a good price, and UV printers need constant maintenance to keep them running nicely. If you're building a lot of pedals for paying customers it eventually pays for itself, but it takes A LOT of paying customers to make it worth it over using a service like Tayda.

I think I did the math like 8 months after buying it, and if I had just used Tayda's print service I still would have saved money even after doing printing myself for 8 months.


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## Paradox916 (Feb 15, 2022)

I’m just a hobbyist that likes nice stuff at best… I have sold a few pedals but I only do so just to keep me in the hobby as my full time job now is a little girl with some extra needs… soIm going to keep with the decals for now and maybe dip my toe into a print service later. I was just curious.


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## vigilante398 (Feb 15, 2022)

I did decals for years before I got my first CNC and started engraving artwork, then from there I actually bought a cheap (~$400) laser engraver, both of which are also options for professional-quality DIY artwork. Between the two I would say CNC is easier to get started and takes less maintenance (although @Stickman393 is starting to prove me wrong  )


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## Stickman393 (Feb 15, 2022)

PShots fired!

Yeah, it's the mechanic in me.  Plus I'm averse to dropping over $500 on anything at a time, but seem to be super willing to drop 2kish over a period of half a year for something that is significantly inferior to a machine.

But...can't put a price in knowledge.  Learned a lot by fucking around with a cheapie.  And more likely than not I'll end up rebuilding the base and converting the original to a laser engraver.



fig said:


> Power to the People! (just not all at once). Similar to the function of a hall-effect sensor?



Honestly, I don't quite know how it works on the inside.  I wouldn't be surprised to open it up and see a 555 and a FET in there.

These little modules are super common in large commercial units that lack microprocessor controls.  Like, for instance, in a makeup air unit, which conditions outside air and pumps that air into a building, typically in buildings like kitchens or labs that lose a lot of air through exhaust fan use.  The air "makes up" for the air lost to exhaust and keeps the walls and windows from imploding on themselves.

In this situation, someone my want to use a single "Start/Stop" digital command to start a fan AND open a set of damper blades.  Maybe it's a simple controls setup, where that start/stop command is coming from a current relay that is wrapped around a leg of a three phase exhaust fan.  Or from a relay output on a VFD.

WELL...you don't want that fan operating until those damper blades are open.  But with only a single command available, you need to find a way to stage the damper blades to open FIRST, and then for the fan to come online.

Truthfully, the better option in this case would be to use a limit switch on the damper actuator in series with the coil of the fan relay, but one of these could do the trick too.  Put it in series with the fan relay coil, set the timer to, say, 90 seconds for a 90-second-stroke actuator, and the fan will energize roughly 90 seconds after the unit gets a "start" command.

I <3 relays.



vigilante398 said:


> The breaker in my garage was just barely enough to run my CNC, but if someone opened the garage door in the middle of a job the CNC would go down and I would lose whatever I was working on. Eventually I want to get thicker wire run so I can swap for a beefier breaker, but until then I hooked the CNC up to a UPS backup. It isn't enough to run the machine for a long time, but it's enough to hold it up in case of the line going down so I don't lose my work.
> 
> When I run my curing oven the lights still flicker, so maybe I should get that checked out by a professional.



Whatcha running there, a 15 amp breaker?

That would be pretty typical of older residential wiring.  Pretty common to see 14awg Romex going to a line of 15amp breakers.  I've got the same sort of setup in my house.

12awg Romex can be run up to 20 amps if you don't need to derate it.  I ran a little extra circuit in my garage with 12awg Romex for a similar reason.

Still though, whatcha running, a three phase spindle + VFD?  Might even be fixed with a newer garage door opener, especially if it's happening like THE MOMENT the garage door starts to open.

Locked rotor amps can easily be 5-10x rated load amps.  Some newer models feature a soft start that helps mitigate that current spike that is characteristic of motors that tend to start when voltage is applied across the line.

Then again, I don't know how much electricians cost.  Outside of the commercial sphere, at least.  More than I do, that's for sure *grumbles about the plumbers in my union that voted for a pay raise last year that wont keep up with inflation*.


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## vigilante398 (Feb 15, 2022)

Stickman393 said:


> Whatcha running there, a 15 amp breaker?
> 
> That would be pretty typical of older residential wiring.  Pretty common to see 14awg Romex going to a line of 15amp breakers.  I've got the same sort of setup in my house.
> 
> ...


It's actually a 10A breaker. Smallest one anywhere else on the house is a 15A, for some reason the garage of all things got a 10A. The house was built in 1997 though, can't really blame age. I'm wondering if the wire in there can already handle more and they just put a 10A as a joke.

Garage door opener is brand new, I installed it when we moved in. It is a 3-phase 800W spindle with a VFD though. It's on the beefy side of things.

EDIT: looks like I lied, garage is a 15A breaker, most of the others in the house are 20A.


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## Stickman393 (Feb 16, 2022)

Hmmm.

I mean, VFDs tend to have very good efficiency ratings...though all of my experience with VFDs has been in three phase to three phase applications.  But that spindle shouldn't be pulling much more than 800 watts at full load...I can't imagine that would be a post-power factor rating.

What kind of steppers are ya using?  A popular NEMA 23 is rated at 2.8 peak...three of those at 24v running balls out would pass about 200 watts.

Plus...if you're running a desktop computer to drive the CNC, that could be an extra 200 watts.

A 15 amp breaker is good for about 1800 watts, so that leaves about 600W for the garage door opener.

Plus lighting, etc.  That's about 5 amps of headroom...I could easily see a garage door opener spiking right past that with it's rotor locked.  I suppose I should have emphasized the "soft start" part of that...new doesn't necessarily mean that the motor won't spike initially.

97 is pretty new, easily in the time when 12awg would be the norm.  So...the mystery of the 15 amp breaker could come down to a few different things:

1) the electrical contractor used 12 in the house but 14 for the garage due to permissive local codes and penny pinching.  Unbelievable if it's a one-off house, but I could see if it was built in part of a new development where they were building multiples.

2) it's actually 12 gauge, but they had to use a 15 amp breaker because the inspector slapped 'em for installation practices that required derating that one circuit.

3) It's 12 gauge, but a 15 was all someone had on hand either during the install or a repair.

Could even be due to their GFCI selection in the garage...maybe they used gfci outlets that were only rated for 15 amps cause someone ordered wrong.  Round here GFCIs are required in garages; it's considered a "non-dry" area like a kitchen or bathroom.  Could be a GFCI breaker, too...

Could even be beneficial to look at the breaker *type*.  Seeing as how much of the garage consists of inductive loads, if that 15 amp breaker isn't an HACR type, that alone could solve the problem.  HACR breakers are kinda like a slo-blo fuse...typically used for Heating, Air Conditioning, and Refrigeration circuits: they're good at handling transient spikes in current without tripping.  We got LOTS of those in HVAC.

Eh...I apologize if this is all just unsolicited advice.  My brain instantly jumps to "OOOOH!  LETS FIGURE THIS OUT!" when presented with building construction-related issues.


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## fig (Feb 16, 2022)

Stickman393 said:


> Eh...I apologize if this is all just unsolicited advice.  My brain instantly jumps to "OOOOH!  LETS FIGURE THIS OUT!" when presented with building construction-related issues.


Excellent! The nano-bot treatment was a success. We can now re-program workers to whatever vocation suits us!


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## vigilante398 (Feb 16, 2022)

Stickman393 said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> I mean, VFDs tend to have very good efficiency ratings...though all of my experience with VFDs has been in three phase to three phase applications.  But that spindle shouldn't be pulling much more than 800 watts at full load...I can't imagine that would be a post-power factor rating.
> 
> ...


Lol, no worries I appreciate the advice. The garage is on the main floor and the electrical panel is in the basement, all wiring goes through metal conduit, and the garage walls are finished so rewiring means cutting through drywall and hacking into metal conduit, otherwise it would have been the first thing I did when we moved in.

The VFD is going from 2-phase to 3-phase so it's going to lose some efficiency, but admittedly I've never actually measured how much it pulls. They are NEMA 23 motors, but the labels say 4.2A, they're the 114mm model. I run them a lot slower than than they're capable of going though, running them balls to the wall the spindle can't keep up.

I had a plug-in power meter at our old house that I used to help solve things like this, and now I have no idea where it is, I'll have to find that and take some measurements. The UPS was an easy workaround since I already had it lying around, and having a UPS on machines that regularly do multiple-hour jobs and the computer that runs them (it's a mini-desktop, so more power hungry than a laptop but less than a gaming PC) is a pretty good idea.


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## Stickman393 (Feb 16, 2022)

I gotcha!  You may be able to tell if the breaker is "HACR type" by looking at the face of the breaker in the panel.  I know like...99% of residential multi pole breakers are...but I don't actually know about single pole breakers.

All in conduit, huh?  Hmmmm.  Typically THHN is rated for a bit higher current at 90⁰ than equivalent Romex...Romex isn't really allowed in conduit for anything over very short distances.  Typically you can use a 14 gauge instead of 12 with a 20 amp breaker, before derating.   Though that alone could be why that one is current limited...maybe they stuffed too many wires into too small of a conduit.  Lots of factors go into derating...lots more than I have knowledge of.  I'm just an HVAC guy...my electrical knowledge as far as buildings go is better than the average joe, but nowhere near a that of a licensed electrician.

But I'll talk your ear off about hear transfer, itellyouwhat.  Yup...got lots of friends.

Re: @fig I was able to open this thing up and get a gutshot!





Ahhhhhh shit.  Even mars goops their circuits.


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## fig (Feb 16, 2022)

Awesome! Looks like a bowl of minestrone.


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## vigilante398 (Feb 16, 2022)

Stickman393 said:


> I gotcha!  You may be able to tell if the breaker is "HACR type" by looking at the face of the breaker in the panel.  I know like...99% of residential multi pole breakers are...but I don't actually know about single pole breakers.
> 
> All in conduit, huh?  Hmmmm.  Typically THHN is rated for a bit higher current at 90⁰ than equivalent Romex...Romex isn't really allowed in conduit for anything over very short distances.  Typically you can use a 14 gauge instead of 12 with a 20 amp breaker, before derating.   Though that alone could be why that one is current limited...maybe they stuffed too many wires into too small of a conduit.  Lots of factors go into derating...lots more than I have knowledge of.  I'm just an HVAC guy...my electrical knowledge as far as buildings go is better than the average joe, but nowhere near a that of a licensed electrician.
> 
> ...


I had one of those a couple years ago that I had opened up and there was no goop, I may even have pictures on my old phone. I'm definitely not an HVAC guy, but when I tried to hook my nest up to a swamp cooler (when I lived in the desert) everyone told me it was impossible, so I had to prove everyone wrong. Basically just needed to turn on the water pump and let it run for 45 -60 seconds before turning on the fan, thus the timer. Worked a treat in my friend's older AC-controlled system, but all my thermostat controls were 3.3VDC logic, so I designed a NE555-based timer circuit to do the same thing at the 3.3VDC level instead of the 120VAC level.

And thus began and ended my foray into hacking HVAC systems. I didn't want to do it, but Nest told me it was impossible, and the swamp cooler manufacturer told me it was impossible. You don't tell an engineer something is impossible.

I'll take a look at the breakers sometime and keep you posted. Sorry for the temporary derail


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## vigilante398 (Feb 28, 2022)

Dude. I've used nothing but flat end mills or v-bits since I got my CNC, but I got my first ball nose bits over the weekend, and man I wish I had checked these out sooner. Absolutely fabulous for a nice popping "3D look".


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