# Paragon mini



## swelchy (Jul 7, 2022)

Finished up a little project.... Sound good too


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## Elijah-Baley (Jul 8, 2022)

It looks very fine!

I'm looking this project right now and I have some doubts about the diodes. Common 1N4148 and 1N914 will sounds ok. But it's almost impossible to found the original ones. But even some good alternative diodes.
What diodes in your built? Some advice about them?
Thanks!


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## MichaelW (Jul 8, 2022)

Elijah-Baley said:


> It looks very fine!
> 
> I'm looking this project right now and I have some doubts about the diodes. Common 1N4148 and 1N914 will sounds ok. But it's almost impossible to found the original ones. But even some good alternative diodes.
> What diodes in your built? Some advice about them?
> Thanks!


DM me, I have plenty of diode options for the Paragon, be happy to send you a couple.


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## MichaelW (Jul 8, 2022)

I've built a bunch of variations of the Paragon/KOT pedals and have most of them socketed diodes. My favorite and best sounding to me is the BA282 but I also have variants with the MA858 and BAS33-TAP. All of which are EOL but there are still plenty of BAS33-TAP to be had cheap.

I got a bunch from Mouser.


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## Robert (Jul 8, 2022)

thewintersoldier said:


> I learned I don't like it at 18v


A few years ago the popular opinion was "18V or die!" but now it seems that most everyone prefers it at 9V.... enough so that I'm planning to remove the charge pump from the Paragon layout so folks can stop pulling the IC.


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## Robert (Jul 8, 2022)

Anything that is good at 9V must be exactly twice as good at 18V....   except 16V electrolytics, those are the _only _exception.


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## MichaelW (Jul 8, 2022)

thewintersoldier said:


> Do you hear a real difference between diodes? I have built a couple KOTs and have the diodes socketed to try different options. I had an original years ago with the magic unicorn tear diodes. I learned I don't like it at 18v, it's gotta be 9v for me. But I heard no real difference between any diodes, although I don't have Eric Johnson ears. The ones I liked the most were 4148s and 4001. No one uses the hard clippers, let's be honest lol. I actually preferred the lower clipping threshold in the soft clippers because even with the high gain option there isn't much gain to be had still. @swelchy solid build, looks good.


I do hear a difference but specifically with the BA282's. Something about them just sound "thicker" and "girthier". Not so much between the "correct" MA85x vs 1N4148/1N9401. The BAS33-TAP also sound a little more like the BA282's. 

I hate the Paragon at 18v, sounds like ass to me in that setting. Which is why I've removed the charge pump in all my Paragon builds.

Having said that, I don't think any of my Paragon's are very "true to the original" with the mod's I've done. My versions are all high gain and I actually do like the hard clippers on but gain backed off.


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## Robert (Jul 8, 2022)

Ever tried LEDs for clipping in one?   Now I'm curious...


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## Feral Feline (Jul 8, 2022)

I went through that "everything must be 18v" phase, but in my defense it kind of made sense to have higher headroom on bass.

Some dirt-circuits still sound better to me at 18v, on bass...


So long as your caps are rated, don't let anyone tell you what sounds good to you.


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## MichaelW (Jul 8, 2022)

Robert said:


> Ever tried LEDs for clipping in one?   Now I'm curious...


LEDs for the soft clipping? I could try it, mine are all socketed


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## Robert (Jul 8, 2022)

Sure, or hard clipping.  I'm just curious, since we're talking about non traditional KoT diodes.


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## MichaelW (Jul 8, 2022)

Robert said:


> Sure, or hard clipping.  I'm just curious, since we're talking about non traditional KoT diodes.


Sounds like a worthy project to me, now where's my screwdriver.........?


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## Robert (Jul 8, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> Sounds like a worthy project to me, now where's my screwdriver.........?



Drinking this early in the morning?    Well, it's Friday, why not.  Here I go!


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## MichaelW (Jul 8, 2022)

Robert said:


> Drinking this early in the morning?    Well, it's Friday, why not.  Here I go!


Most alcoholics will tell you that you can't smell vodka on the breath......most people know who the alcoholics are that say that.....


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## MichaelW (Jul 8, 2022)

ok I gave it a quick try (without the vodka). Nothing to write home about.
Not worth recording.

The LED's clip later, as expected and are less compressed sounding, as expected. Kind of "nueters" the pedal imo.

I didn't measure the vf of the led's but I'm pretty sure I got these from Tayda. 3mm red diffused.


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## Harry Klippton (Jul 8, 2022)

So you're saying I should pull the charge pump out of my paragon? I don't think I've ever cared for a pedal at 18v 🤔


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## Harry Klippton (Jul 8, 2022)

The problem is after I finish a pedal I'm like 


And I never wanna go back to mess with it


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## MichaelW (Jul 8, 2022)

Harry Klippton said:


> So you're saying I should pull the charge pump out of my paragon? I don't think I've ever cared for a pedal at 18v 🤔


Well *I* like it a whole lot better at 9v. But there are other pedals that prefer at 18v. Secret Preamp and as I discovered yesterday, the Lone King overdrive. Changed the whole nature of the pedal for me. Also, if you've got the components rated at 25v you can always run the pedal at 18v w/o the charge pump. More options that way.


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## swelchy (Jul 8, 2022)

Elijah-Baley said:


> It looks very fine!
> 
> I'm looking this project right now and I have some doubts about the diodes. Common 1N4148 and 1N914 will sounds ok. But it's almost impossible to found the original ones. But even some good alternative diodes.
> What diodes in your built? Some advice about them?
> Thanks!


I ordered the diodes from pedal hacker.... he listed them as subs for the OG ones.....


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## Feral Feline (Jul 9, 2022)

What I'm saying is I need green or amber LEDs in the Paragon that I should order before Robert has a chance to neuter the PCB's 18v...


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## Robert (Jul 9, 2022)

MichaelW said:


> Not worth recording.


Well, it was worth a shot!   Thanks for playing!    



Harry Klippton said:


> So you're saying I should pull the charge pump out of my paragon? I don't think I've ever cared for a pedal at 18v 🤔


I don't recall anyone ever saying they put it back....


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## Big Monk (Jul 9, 2022)

The only drive circuit I run at 18v is the Overdriver/Powerboost.


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