# More of a warning than a question - don't buy JFETs from adeleparts2010 on eBay



## Chuck D. Bones (Sep 26, 2022)

I was warned about these guys but decided to roll the dice anyway.  They came up snake-eyes.

What I ordered: 100 PF5102s
What I got: some BJTs that were falsely labeled PF5102.  The real deal is on the left, counterfeit part is on the right.





Here's the test data for the counterfeit part.




I have already requested a refund/return.  Let's see how long the seller can delay responding.

I paid via PayPal, so between them & eBay's buyer protection policy I'm covered.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Sep 26, 2022)

The good news is the seller just issued a full refund.  They are still getting a negative review from me.


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## K Pedals (Sep 26, 2022)

It’s crazy when after you tell the people it’s fake they’re allowed to keep them up there… 
With diodes most people never even know…


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## Chuck D. Bones (Sep 26, 2022)

Amazon is the same way.  They don't screen or discipline their vendors as far as I can tell.  As long as the money keeps rolling in, they're good.


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## K Pedals (Sep 26, 2022)

The guy who sold me those diodes took them down immediately after i told him they were fake… 
He said he had sold them to a couple different pedal parts vendors and they sold out of them and no one ever knew the difference…


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## finebyfine (Sep 27, 2022)

I think I’ve got those same fakes before from somewhere else too. Shit gets so discouraging. There’s definitely purchases I know are a gamble and am fine with that but the ones I think are certain that are fake fuck me up so bad. A recent gamble on analog multipliers paid off well recently though at least :/


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## SillyOctpuss (Sep 27, 2022)

K Pedals said:


> The guy who sold me those diodes took them down immediately after i told him they were fake…
> He said he had sold them to a couple different pedal parts vendors and they sold out of them and no one ever knew the difference…



Which diodes were you trying to buy and how'd you know they were fake?


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## szukalski (Sep 27, 2022)

Are they useful for anything else? Or straight into the rubbish bin?


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## fig (Sep 27, 2022)

🤦‍♂️


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## Coda (Sep 27, 2022)

K Pedals said:


> He said he had sold them to a couple different pedal parts vendors and they sold out of them and no one ever knew the difference…



Mojo parts?…sounds about right…


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## Coda (Sep 27, 2022)

SillyOctpuss said:


> Which diodes were you trying to buy and how'd you know they were fake?



Well, they turned out to be Tic Tacs…


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## K Pedals (Sep 27, 2022)

szukalski said:


> Are they useful for anything else? Or straight into the rubbish bin?



1S1588’s
They were basically 1N4148’s and dude was charging like .60 apiece…

Just testing forward voltage is usually all you need to do to know they’re fake…


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## SillyOctpuss (Sep 28, 2022)

K Pedals said:


> 1S1588’s
> They were basically 1N4148’s and dude was charging like .60 apiece…
> 
> Just testing forward voltage is usually all you need to do to know they’re fake…



I thought that 1s1588 clipped around the same FV as 1n4148?


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## K Pedals (Sep 28, 2022)

They’re close 

All my 4148/916 measure like .55 and all the real 1588’s I’ve had were more around .70


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## SillyOctpuss (Sep 28, 2022)

Interesting.  I have about 50 I bought from Chromesphere over on Madbean about 6/7 years ago.  I'll have to measure then vs my 1n4148.  Are you measuring at around 1mA with a DMM or with a component tester? I think a lot of those measure diodes with a much higher current


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## K Pedals (Sep 28, 2022)

6 or 7 years ago i don’t think they were that rare… 
I could get them up until recently … 

I measured it with a couple different meters…
And Chuck helped confirm with this method….


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## SillyOctpuss (Sep 28, 2022)

K Pedals said:


> 6 or 7 years ago i don’t think they were that rare…
> I could get them up until recently …



No I just liked them as clippers ( the colour was cool) and Chromesphere had a much better price vs pedalhacker who was selling them for about $1.00 each so I bought 100 and have about 50ish left.


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## K Pedals (Sep 28, 2022)

SillyOctpuss said:


> No I just liked them as clippers ( the colour was cool) and Chromesphere had a much better price vs pedalhacker who was selling them for about $1.00 each so I bought 100 and have about 50ish left.



Well I don’t know for 100% but I’m pretty sure pedalhacker got those from that same guy I was talking about on eBay… 
I’ve never seen 2 band 1S1588’s… I’ve seen them with a black band… 
I saw a couple sites with these 2 band ones (PH being one) and I was thinking maybe they were real…
But I don’t think 1S1588 ever even were made with two bands..


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## SillyOctpuss (Sep 28, 2022)

K Pedals said:


> Well I don’t know for 100% but I’m pretty sure pedalhacker got those from that same guy I was talking about on eBay…
> I’ve never seen 2 band 1S1588’s… I’ve seen them with a black band…
> I saw a couple sites with these 2 band ones (PH being one) and I was thinking maybe they were real…
> But I don’t think 1S1588 ever even were made with two bands..



No I've never seen 1s1588 with two bands either.


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## SillyOctpuss (Sep 28, 2022)

I didn't know pedalhacker was selling dual band ones either.   Though he was selling mas858 as Ma856 and when they ran out he started selling 1SS133 as Ma856 so I'm not surprised.


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## K Pedals (Sep 28, 2022)

1S1588 Original Hitachi Silicon Diode NOS RARE KOT
					

Diode original 1S1588 Hitachi silicon epitaxial planar diode.  Used in the KOT pedal and many many other Japanese pedals.  DO-35 case



					www.pedalhackerelectronics.com


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## Bobbyd67 (Sep 28, 2022)

K Pedals said:


> 1S1588 Original Hitachi Silicon Diode NOS RARE KOT
> 
> 
> Diode original 1S1588 Hitachi silicon epitaxial planar diode.  Used in the KOT pedal and many many other Japanese pedals.  DO-35 case
> ...


Gotta love that description if they're from the same seller as you xD


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## EZS (Oct 1, 2022)

Ive also discovered the NPN J201's from 2 different Chinese eBay vendors recently. One was actually an electronics peddler.


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## Pimpoftheyear70 (Oct 2, 2022)

Is PedalhackerElectronics a reputable place to get stuff from ?


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## K Pedals (Oct 2, 2022)

It always has been for me…
I’ve seen some shady stuff recently…
I heard he’s sick and not shipping right now?¿

Not sure…

What are you trying to get?¿


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## MobyOctopad (Oct 2, 2022)

K Pedals said:


> Well I don’t know for 100% but I’m pretty sure pedalhacker got those from that same guy I was talking about on eBay…
> I’ve never seen 2 band 1S1588’s… I’ve seen them with a black band…
> I saw a couple sites with these 2 band ones (PH being one) and I was thinking maybe they were real…
> But I don’t think 1S1588 ever even were made with two bands..


I don't suppose you'd feel comfortable naming the dodgy eBay seller in question, would you? I suspect I've come across their stuff because they seem to use the same set of photos as Pedalhacker on common items in stock. Still, wouldn't want to mention anyone else by name in the thread without any corroboration.


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## K Pedals (Oct 2, 2022)

Brian is the eBay seller…
He’s a really nice guy… 
The eBay seller name is 1947transistor I think…
He really didn’t know they were fake…
When I told him he took them down immediately…
I’ve bought several things from him and this was truly just a misunderstanding… 
They were in a bag labeled 1S1588 so he just sold them as that… said he had 82? orders and no one complained… 

If I know someone to be selling fakes I feel more than comfortable letting everyone know… 
There’s so many on eBay I guess I could compile a list… lol

Jameco sold me a bunch of bunk JFETs and acted like I had done something wrong… 
I had to fight with them to get my money back… they wouldn’t let me keep the 13? That we’re good after testing 200…
They wanted them all back…

And They hung up on me several times… that was the worst of all the online transactions…


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## xefned (Oct 4, 2022)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> What I got: some BJTs that were falsely labeled PF5102.  The real deal is on the left, counterfeit part is on the right.
> 
> View attachment 32963



Is it the BJT reading on your tester, or the pencil-thin “F”, or one of the readings?

Because I had situations #1 and #2 above with some 2n5457s and was assured that they are good, but that I just need an Atlas tester to prove they're good.

Curious about your assessment of the situation.


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## szukalski (Oct 4, 2022)

EZS said:


> Ive also discovered the NPN J201's from 2 different Chinese eBay vendors recently. One was actually an electronics peddler.


I found that the "J201" I got from Adeleparts a long time ago were the same which I received from GuitarPCB's "own personal collection". I had issues with the GuitarPCB ones and don't bother to test them in builds anymore.


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## xefned (Oct 4, 2022)

szukalski said:


> I found that the "J201" I got from Adeleparts a long time ago were the same which I received from GuitarPCB's "own personal collection". I had issues with the GuitarPCB ones and don't bother to test them in builds anymore.



Thanks for confirming. It's hard to blame the “cheap tester” and ignore that the ones I purchased long ago (before having kids,) test as N-channel JFETS, and the ones when I got back into the hobby simply do not read as JFETS. (Just “NPN.”)





I'll never afford an Atlas tester to verify his claims that they're legit. My bad. He offered to take them back, but I declined, placing the blame on my tester. Wish I'd stocked up back in 2002.


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## szukalski (Oct 4, 2022)

xefned said:


> Thanks for confirming. It's hard to blame the “cheap tester” and ignore that the ones I purchased long ago (before having kids,) test as N-channel JFETS, and the ones when I got back into the hobby simply do not read as JFETS. (Just “NPN.”)
> 
> View attachment 33377
> 
> I'll never afford an Atlas tester to verify his claims that they're legit. My bad. Barry offered to take them back, but I declined, placing the blame on my tester. Wish I'd stocked up back in 2002.


It left a bad taste in my mouth, especially since they're "guaranteed genuine". I hate to think how many DIY pedals suck because people trusted they were the real deal. MMBFJ201 all the way now, baby.


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## fig (Oct 4, 2022)

There is one other consideration in regards to accurate measurement. If you look at the datasheet, you’ll see the test conditions used to determine the acceptable range values.

With the J201, the datasheet states that the DUT _should_ read between -.2v to -1.5v *WHEN *the test conditions used are VDS = 20v, ID = 20nA. 

None of the four popular testers I’ve purchased have mimic’d any of those test conditions. It doesn’t necessarily mean the transistors are bad..it means that is the result given the test conditions employed.


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## xefned (Oct 4, 2022)

He may have even bought them from what he believed was an authorized distributor. 

Jameco Electronics for example. Because of the supply chain crisis, I kept getting SN74LS04s from ebay that *looked* fake with a smeared out TI logo. So I ordered 100 from Jameco—since they've been around for decades. They had the same smeared logo as the ebay ones. Probably the same factory. And probably not from TI.


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## xefned (Oct 4, 2022)

fig said:


> There is one other consideration in regards to accurate measurement. If you look at the datasheet, you’ll see the test conditions used to determine the acceptable range values.
> 
> With the J201, the datasheet states that the DUT _should_ read between -.2v to -1.5v *WHEN *the test conditions used are VDS = 20v, ID = 20nA.
> 
> None of the four popular testers I’ve purchased have mimic’d any of those test conditions. It doesn’t necessarily mean the transistors are bad..it means that is the result given the test conditions employed.



Thank you for that fair assessment. I don't want to just assume without full knowledge.

I wonder if I can DIY a JFET tester that will mimic those conditions.


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## Robert (Oct 4, 2022)

I can't comment on the actual parts in question here, but I've had known good MMBFJ201's identify as BJT's in that particular tester.

I feel _fairly _confident they're genuine because they were ordered through Mouser and the reel was drop-shipped directly from onsemi.


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## xefned (Oct 4, 2022)

I also can't ignore the fact that the SMD ones from Aion measure as N-channel JFETS. 

So there is _something different_ about this batch. Something more than just the different-looking “F” logo printed on the face.





But you've given me hope that at least my J201s (which look real) might actually be real. I dunno.


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## MichaelW (Oct 4, 2022)

xefned said:


> Thank you for that fair assessment. I don't want to just assume without full knowledge.
> 
> I wonder if I can DIY a JFET tester that will mimic those conditions.


No, that tester will only give you the Vgs Off number so that you can "match" sets of JFETs. It does not tell you anymore than that. I have an extra board for this if you want it. Just DM me, I can pop it in the mail to you.


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## szukalski (Oct 4, 2022)

xefned said:


> He may have even bought them from what he believed was an authorized distributor.


Yeah, I don't make assumptions on personal characters. All I know is that I have two different batches of "J201" with the same markings, same test readings, which don't work well in pedals where other J201s have worked as expected.


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## xefned (Oct 4, 2022)

Robert said:


> I feel _fairly _confident they're genuine because they were ordered through Mouser and the reel was drop-shipped directly from onsemi.



I have no doubt yours are genuine. I wasn't aware that you sold them when I bought from Aion last year, otherwise, *I would have bought them from you. *PedalPCB first. 



fig said:


> With the J201, the datasheet states that the DUT _should_ read between -.2v to -1.5v *WHEN *the test conditions used are VDS = 20v, ID = 20nA.



I'm postulating that my tester can identify a 2n5457, but not a J201. I'll try it with some known legit SMDs this evening.



szukalski said:


> Yeah, I don't make assumptions on personal characters. All I know is that I have two different batches of "J201" with the same markings, same test readings, which don't work well in pedals where other J201s have worked as expected.



That is wise. 
They either work, or they don't. And once they're in our possession, it's up to us to test for legit parts. 

My favorite MIAB (Golden Falk) uses J201s. It sounds glorious. 
I'm using two different brands of J201 so gosh, I hope they're both legit.


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## Robert (Oct 4, 2022)

xefned said:


> I have no doubt yours are genuine.



Oh I wasn't trying to plug a sale, I was just saying that the tester has been known to mis-identify / give false negatives in the past.


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## K Pedals (Oct 4, 2022)

Yeah I had the same tester doing the same thing…


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## swyse (Oct 4, 2022)

xefned said:


> Thanks for confirming. It's hard to blame the “cheap tester” and ignore that the ones I purchased long ago (before having kids,) test as N-channel JFETS, and the ones when I got back into the hobby simply do not read as JFETS. (Just “NPN.”)
> 
> View attachment 33377
> 
> I'll never afford an Atlas tester to verify his claims that they're legit. My bad. He offered to take them back, but I declined, placing the blame on my tester. Wish I'd stocked up back in 2002.



It's interesting that on the 2022 transistor the hfe reading is so high, higher than any of the prepackaged darlingtons i know of while the vf is so low, being lower than any silicon BJT i've ever seen tested.


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## xefned (Oct 4, 2022)

Robert said:


> … tester has been known to mis-identify / give false negatives in the past.



This particular style of unbranded ebay cheapie—it appears—

*CAN* correctly ID a 2n5457
but *CAN NOT* correctly ID a J201
probably due to the test conditions Fig outlined earlier. 
It knows when you've inserted a MOSFET as well. Pretty decent tester for $15.


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## xefned (Oct 4, 2022)

swyse said:


> …higher than any of the prepackaged darlingtons i know of while the vf is so low, being lower than any silicon BJT i've ever seen tested …



The hFE tests all over the map, from 14k to 140k.  Probably because the tester doesn't know what it's looking at. 
Maybe they are JFETs, just different from the old ones? I dunno.


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## xefned (Oct 13, 2022)

What do you guys know about the cheaper Atlas, the DCA55?

Do you think it would correctly identify a legit J201 as a JFET? The datasheet notes that “only the gate pin is identified.” Probably doesn't bode well.

It's down to $70, which is cheaper than the last time I looked.


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## fig (Oct 13, 2022)

xefned said:


> What do you guys know about the cheaper Atlas, the DCA55?
> 
> Do you think it would correctly identify a legit J201 as a JFET? The datasheet notes that “only the gate pin is identified.” Probably doesn't bode well.
> 
> It's down to $70, which is cheaper than the last time I looked.


Drain and Source are identical.


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## xefned (Oct 14, 2022)

fig said:


> Drain and Source are identical.


LMAO. I forgot; JFETs are usually symmetrical. Sorry.


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## fig (Oct 14, 2022)

xefned said:


> LMAO. I forgot; JFETs are usually symmetrical. Sorry.


I was awestruck that I actually knew that


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## Feral Feline (Oct 16, 2022)

xefned said:


> This particular style of unbranded ebay cheapie—it appears—
> 
> *CAN* correctly ID a 2n5457
> but *CAN NOT* correctly ID a J201
> ...



I've got one of these (or super-similar). It bricked itself (or I bricked it) just testing it out — never got to use it in earnest. Makes a colourful paperweight.


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## xefned (Oct 16, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> I've got one of these (or super-similar). It bricked itself (or I bricked it) just testing it out — never got to use it in earnest. Makes a colourful paperweight.



That's a massive bummer. 
I also have a dead generic tester: an induction/LCR meter. It never really worked. I wrote to the company name silkscreened on the PCB. They said, "we no longer support that product." I can't bring myself to throw it away.


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## spi (Oct 16, 2022)

And you can't throw them away.  It says so right on the board.


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## xefned (Oct 16, 2022)

spi said:


> And you can't throw them away.  It says so right on the board.
> 
> View attachment 34033



That's exactly the symbol that causes me to put it back in its box.
Can't sell it. Can't throw it away.

Must go in the hazardous waste accumulation box that's been filling up for years in the garage.


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## SillyOctpuss (Oct 16, 2022)

xefned said:


> That's a massive bummer.
> I also have a dead generic tester: an induction/LCR meter. It never really worked. I wrote to the company name silkscreened on the PCB. They said, "we no longer support that product." I can't bring myself to throw it away.


I had three different component testers in 3 weeks and each of them died inside a week.  I ended up just buying a peak atlas in the end.


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## xefned (Oct 16, 2022)

SillyOctpuss said:


> I had three different component testers in 3 weeks and each of them died inside a week.  I ended up just buying a peak atlas in the end.



Similarly, If I added up all the $25 DMMs that broke over the years, I could've bought a Fluke in the first place.


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## SillyOctpuss (Oct 16, 2022)

xefned said:


> Similarly, If I added up all the $25 DMMs that broke over the years, I could've bought a Fluke in the first place.



Thankfully my middle of the road DMM has been rock solid for the last 10 years.


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## K Pedals (Oct 16, 2022)

SillyOctpuss said:


> Thankfully my middle of the road DMM has been rock solid for the last 10 years.


I’ve got a couple about 6 years in now… still going strong.!.!!


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## spi (Oct 16, 2022)

I forget how old my inexpensive MM is... at least 15 maybe 20 years?   But I feel its accuracy may have drifted, at least it seems suspect to me.  The manual has a calibration process, but I don't have the equipment necessary to do it.


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## Feral Feline (Oct 16, 2022)

Well, I eventually got a TC-1, courtesy of Fig in one of his contests, bless him.

I think the ones sold naked without a case are more susceptible to bricking.

My one that bricked was probably a second or a reject from the TC-1 production line that's being sold off by unscrupulous factory employees who don't know what to do with the Failed-Stock since they can't throw them out either. So they smuggle the bad ones out of the factory, sell 'm online without the case that protects the unit and ...

Sorry, my imagination tends to run away with the Fork and the Spoon.


I've got two _cheap_ DMMs, one direct from the manufacturer in China I bought at a trade-fair, the other I got from Canajian Tyre, and both are still going strong.
I'd like to get the Peak Atlas 75, eventually. Can't hurt to have multiple DMMs: my amp-builder/restorer/repairer/designer buddy has multiple DMMs setup for different specific tasks plus a few more just for general use.


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