# Marshall Guv’nor/Guvernator- no sound



## megatrav (Oct 18, 2020)

Got this guy all wired up. I tried to make it as neat as I could.
The pedal powers on but there is no sound bypassed or engaged.
I am thinking I either goofed on the switch or jacks.
Here are some pics. 


















Any help is much appreciated


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## megatrav (Oct 18, 2020)

Output jacks was wired backwards! All good now lol


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## twebb6778 (Oct 18, 2020)

Beat me to it! It's always satisfying to solve something yourself, nice one


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## Chuck D. Bones (Oct 19, 2020)

Nice job on the photos.

In the future, use a little less solder.  I use many different wire colors to minimize the liklihood of mixing them up.


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## HamishR (Oct 19, 2020)

And use smaller wire! And as Chuck says, colour coding is your friend. I use black for grounds, red for power and often use blue for inputs, yellow for outputs - that kinda thing.


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## megatrav (Oct 20, 2020)

Thanks for the tips. This is the last build I will be doing for a little while. I will use less solder in the future and definitely look into smaller, different colored wire. Do you all prefer braided or solid?


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## HamishR (Oct 20, 2020)

Braided. Solid is easier but breaks when you least want it to.  But don't let us put you off - it doesn't take long to get really good at this stuff!


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## Elktronics (Oct 20, 2020)

Braided only! I prefer prebonded, braided wire


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## Chuck D. Bones (Oct 20, 2020)

I bought this last time and am very please with it.  Very flexible and the silicone insulation won't shrink back when you solder the wire.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TJZ9XRR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With my Vero builds I use a combination of solid and stranded because I use the solid wires to help support the board.


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## megatrav (Oct 20, 2020)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I bought this last time and am very please with it.  Very flexible and the silicone insulation won't shrink back when you solder the wire.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TJZ9XRR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> With my Vero builds I use a combination of solid and stranded because I use the solid wires to help support the board.


Thank you for the link!


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## megatrav (Oct 22, 2020)

So, I encountered some issues-

The first one is a bit a mystery to me, but hopefully someone can chime in. 
I was testing the pedal and noticed it was a little intermittent. When I engaged the pedal there wasn't any sound. As I was adjusting the volume control, I nudged the LED and full sound came in. 
I didn't use a bezel for this one, so I assume its shorting out to the enclosure. The leads aren't touching at all, so I assume without a bezel it needs to be mostly inside of the enclosure. 
It should still work, but I may end up installing a bezel, since I do have one lying around.

The second issue is one that I figured out myself- I accidentally swapped the volume pot and volume pot. Luckily, these two aren't mounted to the board, so they should be easy to swap since I currently don't have any solder wock.

The issue is- when I was taking the knobs off, I stripped the screw on the knob on the volume control. So, I am going to attempt to drill through the tiny screw tonight and get it off. Hopefully, I can do it without destroying the knob or the pot, but we will see. 

This is a good example of how rushing through soldering or not paying enough attention to detail can create more work! lol


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## Chas Grant (Oct 22, 2020)

megatrav said:


> So, I encountered some issues-
> 
> The first one is a bit a mystery to me, but hopefully someone can chime in.
> I was testing the pedal and noticed it was a little intermittent. When I engaged the pedal there wasn't any sound. As I was adjusting the volume control, I nudged the LED and full sound came in.
> ...


When I first started building I always used a bezel, now I rarely use one. If you're using a step drill bit there is a little trick. The step bits have a small bevel to each step. I have the drill sizes I use on an enclosure marked with a sharpie so I know where they are. When drilling for the LED when I get to this step on the bit I go real slow and test fit the LED I get it to where the LED is tight in the hole, this way the lip on the bottom of the LED will prevent it from going through. This way there is no worrying about the LED coming through the enclosure and shorting out on it. It works great for 3mm and 5mm LEDs and it looks good and sleek. If I get a little overzealous while drilling and the hole is loose, I  ensure just the tip of the led is poking through before soldering it into the board. Once you get comfortable with this you can put the LED where ever you'd like and run wires to the pads, it will stay there no problem, if your worried about it slipping out a small dab of glue on the side works well and it still comes out easily if you need to remove the circuit from the enclosure.


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## megatrav (Oct 22, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> When I first started building I always used a bezel, now I rarely use one. If you're using a step drill bit there is a little trick. The step bits have a small bevel to each step. I have the drill sizes I use on an enclosure marked with a sharpie so I know where they are. When drilling for the LED when I get to this step on the bit I go real slow and test fit the LED I get it to where the LED is tight in the hole, this way the lip on the bottom of the LED will prevent it from going through. This way there is no worrying about the LED coming through the enclosure and shorting out on it. It works great for 3mm and 5mm LEDs and it looks good and sleek. If I get a little overzealous while drilling and the hole is loose, I  ensure just the tip of the led is poking through before soldering it into the board. Once you get comfortable with this you can put the LED where ever you'd like and run wires to the pads, it will stay there no problem, if your worried about it slipping out a small dab of glue on the side works well and it still comes out easily if you need to remove the circuit from the enclosure.


So, I had Tayda drill my enclosure for me. It has a 3mm hole and the LED fits really well. It doesn't come all the way through. But for some reason, it causes the sound to go out unless its slightly pushed in from the outside. I will investigate this further. I have to de-solder some things to fix my kerfuffle with the pots


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## Chas Grant (Oct 22, 2020)

megatrav said:


> So, I had Tayda drill my enclosure for me. It has a 3mm hole and the LED fits really well. It doesn't come all the way through. But for some reason, it causes the sound to go out unless its slightly pushed in from the outside. I will investigate this further. I have to de-solder some things to fix my kerfuffle with the pots



Most likely you’re shorting out the power lead of the LED on something. Maybe the enclosure? Try some good ol’ electrical tape along the path of the leads.


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## PJS (Oct 23, 2020)

A good tip for this kind of wiring is to put a bit of heatshrink tube over the wire before you solder it to the LED lead, then when the joint is soldered move the tube over the joint and lead and apply heat to shrink it down.  Then you get a nice snug and insulated lead.  If you are running the leads straight to a PCB then put heatshrink over them first.


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## megatrav (Oct 23, 2020)

Good pro tips. Much appreciated. 

Any tips for drilling out a stripped control knob set screw? lol


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## Chas Grant (Oct 23, 2020)

Can you grab it from the inside with needle nose and turn it?


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## megatrav (Oct 23, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> Can you grab it from the inside with needle nose and turn it?


I don't have any that are small enough (I think) but that is a good idea that I have not tried. I may try this and tweezers. I have some really small bits, so I might be able to get it without too much trouble, but I worry about wrecking the pot. I don't want to have to order another one lol


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## zgrav (Oct 23, 2020)

see if you can force the knob off of the pot using something like a lever on the bottom of the pot pushing up (maybe a spoon, maybe two spoons with one on each side)


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## megatrav (Oct 23, 2020)

zgrav said:


> see if you can force the knob off of the pot using something like a lever on the bottom of the pot pushing up (maybe a spoon, maybe two spoons with one on each side)


I did think about this, but the knob is on very tight so I am a little worried it might damage the pot. This is my last resort if the other options do not work.


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## megatrav (Oct 18, 2020)

Got this guy all wired up. I tried to make it as neat as I could.
The pedal powers on but there is no sound bypassed or engaged.
I am thinking I either goofed on the switch or jacks.
Here are some pics. 


















Any help is much appreciated


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## zgrav (Oct 23, 2020)

if you have any wd40 you could also try putting a drop in the screw and maybe a drop on the pot shaft and leave the pedal upside down for a half-hour or so. you can also try forcing the pot at both ends of its rotation to see if you can loosen the screw a bit.


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## Chas Grant (Oct 23, 2020)

What type of knob did you use?


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## PJS (Oct 24, 2020)

Last time I had this happen I got the knob off with a cut off wheel in a Dremel.  I did not save the knob, but decided that was easier to replace than the pot - I had bought a 10 pack of knobs so had spares.


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## megatrav (Oct 27, 2020)

I am using Marshall style silver top knobs. The spoons and wd-40 did not work. I was able to cut through some one the knob, but I don't have a Dremel. I may try to drill through it tonight.


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## Chas Grant (Oct 27, 2020)

Good Luck! Hopefully it goes well, I was going to recommend cutting them, but it seems you have started that!


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## zgrav (Oct 27, 2020)

did you over-tighten the screws on the knobs and strip the slot?  there are also some special drills bits you can get to remove screws, but sacrificing the knob is likely to be the cheapest and quickest solution.   Some interesting ideas about removing stripped screws in this video.


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## megatrav (Oct 27, 2020)

zgrav said:


> did you over-tighten the screws on the knobs and strip the slot?  there are also some special drills bits you can get to remove screws, but sacrificing the knob is likely to be the cheapest and quickest solution.   Some interesting ideas about removing stripped screws in this video.


Yes, I over-tightened it like a dummy. Thank you for the video. I could cut through the knob which would take a while, but I am hoping I can just drill through the screw enough to get an allen key in there and loosen it enough to pull the knob off. I already ordered some replacement knobs so I am ready to sacrifice it! I hope I can save the pot, but if not, then I can get another. 

The way I had this one laid out, the pot wasn't attached to the board so that part is easy


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## HamishR (Nov 1, 2020)

Marshall knobs are always a pain. They get stuck, they split, the screw gets jammed...I'm not sure what it is. I think the plastic is a more brittle form or something. I rarely use them. I just put some on an amp and was surprised it went smoothly. Hopefully I'll never have to remove them.


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## megatrav (Nov 1, 2020)

So, I managed to drill through the knob and get it off. I wired everything up and now I have another problem. The effect is turning on and all LEDs are lighting up but there is barely any output. With all knobs turned up it barely puts out any signal. I can tell the effect is working but something is making it very quiet. The bypassed sound is just fine. 
I am going to check all of my solder joints and make sure that I done have any cold ones. Any other suggestions?


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## PJS (Nov 2, 2020)

Measure the voltages on the IC would be the first thing.  The second would be to make an audio probe and go through the audio pathway with it and have a listen to where you lose volume.  If the gain knob gives you more or less distortion then the volume loss will be towards the output end of the circuit.


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## music6000 (Nov 2, 2020)

Did you remove the Knob with the stripped screw out of the Enclosure ?
I ask this as you may have cracked the pot board going inside the Pot while handling it under pressure.
This could cause the lack of volume you are getting now.


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## megatrav (Nov 3, 2020)

I removed the knob by drilling through the screw with the smallest bit that I had. I do have some small marks on the shaft of the pot, but it is still functioning. But I could have damaged it possibly
The gain control, tone controls, and volume control all work, they are just very quiet.


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## Chas Grant (Nov 3, 2020)

Its possible that with all the fun you had with the one potentiometer that you damaged it. Its possible to move the shaft in the pot, I have done this before, I had low volume and intermittent breaking up when turning the pot. Somehow the shaft was pressed down into the pot a little and the wiper was not making good contact with the windings. I opened the pot up by gently opening the 4 tabs on the top of the pot and removing the bottom cover. I was then able to push the shaft back into the pot and it stayed with no problems. Still using the same pot to this day. Or you can try replacing the pot. ( I did this because I 'm curious and like to know how things work, what better way to learn then by trying to break them.)


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## megatrav (Nov 6, 2020)

I went through and reflowed basically every solder point on the PCB and the issue remains. I am going to replace the volume pot and hope that fixes it. If not, I'm giving up haha


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## megatrav (Dec 14, 2020)

Sorry for the late update. I replaced the volume pot. No difference. 
the pedal “works” but isn’t even audible unless the volume is maxed out. At that point it’s less than half the volume of the bypassed tone.

I can’t read schematics very well, so I’m not sure what would be problematic. If anyone has any more suggestions, please feel free to advise!


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## megatrav (Dec 15, 2020)

When I look at the schematic, I do see R11 and c12 after the volume pot. When I look at the board, those look like they have nice solid shiny solder joints. The only thing I can figure is that I may have used the wrong value?


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## Chas Grant (Dec 15, 2020)

Looking at the build docs, the pic on the web page for the PCB and the pic of your build, I see a few discrepancies. Check and see if you can see the values printed on the PCB with out removing the resistors, if not you may have to do continuity checks to verify them. The circled resistors are the ones in question and the color code value is next to them. Mr. PedalPCB usually says to go with what is printed on the PCB as these are the most up to date.
Circle color                     What you have installed                       What it is According to web page/Build DOC     
Red                                             10K                                                                R11 -  22K
blue/green                                  22K                                                               R8   -  100R
pink                                             47K                                                               R4  -   10K
Orange                                        680R                                                             R102 - 47K
White                                          100R                                                              R10 -  680R

YOU NEED TO VERIFY THE VALUES TO YOUR BOARD!


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## megatrav (Dec 15, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> Looking at the build docs, the pic on the web page for the PCB and the pic of your build, I see a few discrepancies. Check and see if you can see the values printed on the PCB with out removing the resistors, if not you may have to do continuity checks to verify them. The circled resistors are the ones in question and the color code value is next to them. Mr. PedalPCB usually says to go with what is printed on the PCB as these are the most up to date.
> Circle color                     What you have installed                       What it is According to web page/Build DOC
> Red                                             10K                                                                R11 -  22K
> blue/green                                  22K                                                               R8   -  100R
> ...


Hey thanks! That looks to be my issue. It might take some time, but I will swap with the correct ones. Hopefully that fixes it!


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## megatrav (Dec 15, 2020)

So, I managed to get the incorrect resistors out.. or at least the ones you highlighted. 

As I was taking the resistors out, I noticed that they are marked with the incorrect value on the board, which is most likely how I mixed up the values so badly. I have no idea if there are others that are incorrect.

It is definitely my fault for not checking and verifying the build doc with what was on the PCB, but I do think @PedalPCB might want to consider either including a warning that the values aren't the same or maybe not have the incorrect values on the board lol


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## Chas Grant (Dec 16, 2020)

megatrav said:


> So, I managed to get the incorrect resistors out.. or at least the ones you highlighted.
> 
> As I was taking the resistors out, I noticed that they are marked with the incorrect value on the board, which is most likely how I mixed up the values so badly. I have no idea if there are others that are incorrect.
> 
> It is definitely my fault for not checking and verifying the build doc with what was on the PCB, but I do think @PedalPCB might want to consider either including a warning that the values aren't the same or maybe not have the incorrect values on the board lol


GO WITH THE BOARD!


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## megatrav (Oct 18, 2020)

Got this guy all wired up. I tried to make it as neat as I could.
The pedal powers on but there is no sound bypassed or engaged.
I am thinking I either goofed on the switch or jacks.
Here are some pics. 


















Any help is much appreciated


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## megatrav (Dec 16, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> GO WITH THE BOARD!


So don’t trust the build doc?

I think I’m going to have to call it quits and order a new board. This poor thing can’t handle any more soldering being done to it


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## Chas Grant (Dec 16, 2020)

Mr. PedalPCB usually says to go with what's on the PCB as its the latest rev. The build doc may not be updated. That's why I said to see if you can make out what's on the board without removing the resistors. Didn't want unneeded soldering if we could have avoided it.


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## Robert (Dec 16, 2020)

megatrav said:


> It is definitely my fault for not checking and verifying the build doc with what was on the PCB, but I do think @PedalPCB might want to consider either including a warning that the values aren't the same or maybe not have the incorrect values on the board lol



The values on the board aren't incorrect, you have a different revision of the PCB.      The values technically haven't changed, the components have been rearranged for cleaner trace routing.

You should install the values as marked on your PCB.


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## megatrav (Dec 16, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> Mr. PedalPCB usually says to go with what's on the PCB as its the latest rev. The build doc may not be updated. That's why I said to see if you can make out what's on the board without removing the resistors. Didn't want unneeded soldering if we could have avoided it.


Sorry friend I misunderstood


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## megatrav (Dec 16, 2020)

Robert said:


> The values on the board aren't incorrect, you have a different revision of the PCB.      The values technically haven't changed, the components have been rearranged for cleaner trace routing.
> 
> You should install the values as marked on your PCB.


Good to know for future. I’ll be ordering another one. I think this one is done for. Luckily I can save the parts that are expensive!


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## Chas Grant (Dec 16, 2020)

megatrav said:


> Good to know for future. I’ll be ordering another one. I think this one is done for. Luckily I can save the parts that are expensive!


As long as the pads are still on the PCB its good. I have a pcb, I switch parts on all the time to see what the effects are, been soldered/de-soldered many many times, still rocking with out any pads lifted. If I clean it up it even looks good.


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