# Binaura Stereo FV-1



## Robert

Working on an upcoming stereo FV-1 project and am debating between two options....

Cram it all into a 125B and use TRS stereo jacks for In/Out,  or put it in a 1590BB and use independent jacks for Left / Right output?

This will be primarily geared towards stereo use, the algorithms are specifically tailored for it, so mono "fallback" isn't really a concern.


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## Nostradoomus

It’d be nice to have more 1590BB projects. Lotsa those boxes kickin around


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## stevtron

I would absolutely prefer independent outputs … I hate split cables


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## Robert

That's what I was leaning towards, so that's what we'll do.   It'd be awfully cramped in a 125B anyway.


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## Dali

Robert said:


> Cram it all into a 125B and use TRS stereo jacks for In/Out,  or put it in a 1590BB and use independent jacks for Left / Right output?



1590BB ! Moar stereo. Moar.


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## p_wats

As much as I love keeping things compact, I've gone the split cable route before and always been left annoyed. Looking forward to this!


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## reubenreub

I'll go ahead and say I prefer TRS jacks for stereo pedals. A lot of the stereo pedals I use are already that way so using TRS cables is a lot handier than 2 TS cables to join them. I'm definitely fine with 1590BB though and leaving it up to us which type of jack we want to use.


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## Robert

Done, 1590BB it is.   Like reubenreub said, if you prefer a single TRS that's at the builders discretion.

Next issue..... My audio interface doesn't have stereo input, time to upgrade I suppose.


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## stevtron

Aaaand what is it ? Maybe you share your plan with us ordinary mortals , pleeeaase ... ?


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## Robert

Essentially an Arachnid-style platform, but designed _specifically_ for stereo effects...

Stereo reverb, delay, rotary, tremolo/pan, etc.


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## stevtron

Sounds great ... ?


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## Chuck D. Bones

I want one!


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## Robert

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I want one!



Then you shall have one.    

The layout is basically done, just debating between a few design choices before getting a prototype on the way.


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## Chuck D. Bones

I take it the BLEND and VOLUME pots will be duals.

I did have one idea for this...
Provide an optional LED drive circuit connected to the R-ch output.  This would allow the R-ch output to be re-purposed as a threshold or LFO indicator.  Something like:



Obviously, it would require the appropriate FV-1 code.


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## ebai101

Is there a waitlist yet? I'm super pumped for this...got some effect ideas of my own that I'd love to put in a pedal.


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## phi1

Chuck D. Bones said:


> I take it the BLEND and VOLUME pots will be duals.
> 
> I did have one idea for this...
> Provide an optional LED drive circuit connected to the R-ch output.  This would allow the R-ch output to be re-purposed as a threshold or LFO indicator.  Something like:
> View attachment 2794
> Obviously, it would require the appropriate FV-1 code.



Agreed, I did this on my *dev board build*, and it is indeed very useful for tempo indication, I also use it a lot when developing code to test what's going on in the algorithm.


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## Chuck D. Bones

I'm going to have questions for you when I start writing my own code.


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## Robert

The Binaura PCB is here and working great, I'll get some clips posted later this week when my stereo interface arrives.

Harmonic tremolo running in stereo through two amps is _really_ cool.    

Now it's time to discuss algorithms.....


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## Chuck D. Bones

The obvious ones (all stereo out, of course):
Chorus
Thru-Zero Flanger
Phase Shifter
Ping-Pong Echo

And some not-so-obvious ones:
Uni-Vibe
Dual Auto-Wah


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## Nostradoomus

Wah on one side, phaser on the other to mimic a Korg Mr Multi


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## phi1

I made a modded version of the daydream (kaleidoscope) patch where there is and extra unfiltered repeat staggered in there. If you look at the daydream code, the knob sets the total delay time. There’s a repeat at 0.33 of the total time, one at 0.67 the total time, and one at the total time (all filtered differently). The extra one I put in is at 0.5 the total delay time. So it staggers in there nicely to give some extra dimension. 

It would be cool to have a daydream patch with the extra delay thrown to the other side, or throw different daydream repeats back forth, kind of like a ping pong but with the magic of the daydream.


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## Robert

Nostradoomus said:


> Wah on one side, phaser on the other to mimic a Korg Mr Multi



So you're going to make me install a damned expression jack in mine, aren't you?     



phi1 said:


> It would be cool to have a daydream patch with the extra delay thrown to the other side, or throw different daydream repeats back forth, kind of like a ping pong but with the magic of the daydream.


Oh yes, a stereo Daydream is absolutely happening.   I have some staggered timing patches that didn't make it into the original pedal.


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## Nostradoomus

Robert said:


> So you're going to make me install a damned expression jack in mine, aren't you?



Do you skip cheese when you make a deluxe pizza??? DO YOU?!!??


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## Chuck D. Bones

Extra garlic on mine, please.


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## chilidog

What does a stereo flanger sound like when you output the clean signal to one channel and the 1ms delayed signal to the other channel?


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## zgrav

depending on how far apart your speakers are it will noticeably widen the acoustic field.
the boss digital delay pedals give you a direct out jack and the delayed output jack.


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## Chuck D. Bones

Here's how I would implement a thru-zero stereo flanger:

Delay the clean signal 5ms.

Delay the modulated signal a variable amount, say 1ms to 9ms.

Add the modulated to the delayed clean signal for the Left channel out.

Subtract the modulated from the delayed clean signal for the Right channel out.

Do the same thing for Stereo Chorus, just with longer delays.


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## Robert

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Here's how I would implement a thru-zero stereo flanger:



That's going to be interesting.    

I'll have to try an alternate mode with the LFO inverted (or 90 degrees out of phase) on one side.


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## Robert

This is a basic stereo reverb, nothing incredibly flashy going on, but it sounds even better than I expected.

Recorded 100% direct, Binaura > Scarlett 2i2.


__
		https://soundcloud.com/pedalpcb%2Fbinaura-stereo-reverb


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## ryanisradd

Robert said:


> This is a basic stereo reverb, nothing incredibly flashy going on, but it sounds even better than I expected.
> 
> Recorded 100% direct, Binaura > Scarlett 2i2.
> 
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/pedalpcb%2Fbinaura-stereo-reverb




I didn’t know the FV-1 could sound that good!


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## Boba7

Robert said:


> This is a basic stereo reverb, nothing incredibly flashy going on, but it sounds even better than I expected.
> 
> Recorded 100% direct, Binaura > Scarlett 2i2.
> 
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/pedalpcb%2Fbinaura-stereo-reverb



Very promising! Thanks for sharing. I'll order one for sure as soon as they hit the store!


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## music6000

Robert said:


> This is a basic stereo reverb, nothing incredibly flashy going on, but it sounds even better than I expected.
> 
> Recorded 100% direct, Binaura > Scarlett 2i2.
> 
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/pedalpcb%2Fbinaura-stereo-reverb


So, the Scarlett 2i2 won the race!


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## Robert

music6000 said:


> So, the Scarlett 2i2 won the race!



Yes and no...   It has been a bit troublesome.     It's working right now, but wasn't an easy road getting there, and it's still a bit wonky.  If I unplug it there's a good chance it will BSOD my computer. 

It'll work for now, but I'm most likely going to be sending it back in favor of the SSL2+.


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## Robert

__
		https://soundcloud.com/pedalpcb%2Fstereoto


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## Nostradoomus

Don’t tell me that thing is ready to go now, my wallet has been punished enough by you lately


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## zgrav

.... will it be ready to go when you restock on FV-1s?


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## Robert

zgrav said:


> .... will it be ready to go when you restock on FV-1s?



The final PCBs are on order now.   The circuit is good to go, the board just needed an adjustment to the physical dimensions.

Still working on the first batch of stereo algorithms at the moment, hopefully they'll be ready by then.


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## Nostradoomus

Sounds like I’ll get a pay cheque or two before it happens, perfect


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## Robert

Nostradoomus said:


> Sounds like I’ll get a pay cheque or two before it happens, perfect



Maybe by then there will be some 1590BB enclosures available as well.


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## Nostradoomus

I’ve got lots of those!


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## bengarland

How do FV-1 effects compare to an Eventide H9? Has anyone done an A/B comparison with similar algorithms?


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## Robert

bengarland said:


> How do FV-1 effects compare to an Eventide H9? Has anyone done an A/B comparison with similar algorithms?



The Eventide is _far _more powerful than the FV-1.    This doesn't necessarily equate to better quality, but it would be capable of much more going on at the same time (more complex algorithms / simultaneous effects to achieve a particular sound)... 

I would imagine aside from subjectivity or the possibility of a specialized FV-1 patch that the H9 just doesn't have, that in most cases the H9 would be superior...


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## zgrav

the FV-1 was developed in part to serve a DIY market.  one of the men who was a driving force behind its development, Keith Barr, passed away in 2010, at a point where at least some preliminary work was being done on a next gen chip.  Having a chip that old still drive a lot of pedals, including new designs, is remarkable.  Here is a link that tells a bit more about Keith Barr and includes links within it to some more information about the FV-1:  https://valhalladsp.com/2010/08/25/rip-keith-barr/

As far as I know, nothing comparable for a one-chip device using the updated processing power and memory is in development for the DIY market.


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## reubenreub

zgrav said:


> the FV-1 was developed in part to serve a DIY market.  one of the men who was a driving force behind its development, Keith Barr, passed away in 2010, at a point where at least some preliminary work was being done on a next gen chip.  Having a chip that old still drive a lot of pedals, including new designs, is remarkable.  Here is a link that tells a bit more about Keith Barr and includes links within it to some more information about the FV-1:  https://valhalladsp.com/2010/08/25/rip-keith-barr/
> 
> As far as I know, nothing comparable for a one-chip device using the updated processing power and memory is in development for the DIY market.


So I'm not sure how diy friendly this is going to be, but this looks like something that is trying to be a more powerful (albeit more complicated and more expensive) version of an fv-1. Maybe someday I'll be smart enough to figure this kind of stuff out ?






						FXCore | Audio Effects DSP | by Experimental Noize
					

The FXCore is a DSP designed for creating audio effects in pro-audio devices.



					www.experimentalnoize.com


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## Robert

I was just about to comment about the upcoming FXCore.     

It does look quite a bit more powerful than the FV-1, but that comes at a price....  it's going to be a little more complicated to work with since it's not a single-IC solution.      With that said, I'm waiting on the development board to become available so we can check it out.

Another hopefully promising development is the upcoming Daisy module.


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## phi1

Cool. I think frank who worked with Keith on the fv-1 is affiliated with experimental noise, right?


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## Robert

Yep, that's correct.


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## KR3

Is Binaura still going to be released? I notice it's listed under the "Coming Soon" tab.


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## Danbieranowski

KR3 said:


> Is Binaura still going to be released? I notice it's listed under the "Coming Soon" tab.


I'd imagine with the Daisy Seed stuff having come out that this project isn't getting a lot of attention anymore, but I may be speaking out of turn.


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## zgrav

Seems like the board will be available soon, and this may be just the thing for folks that have some FV-1 chips already sitting in their inventory.


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## Robert

Yep, it's still going to be released, I just need to work up a few more stereo algorithms for it.


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## KR3

Thanks for the update.

I’m assuming you already have some kind of stereo tremolo.

A stereo chorus would be good.
One delay line per channel, LFO inverted for one channel.
Controls could be LFO Rate, LFO Depth and either Stereo Width or Delay Time.
Worth looking at old string machines to see how they implemented chorus.
Some used a 3-phase LFO (or even two of them, one at a different rate and amplitude) to modulate the delay time of three BBDs.

Perhaps stereo delay lines where the amplitude of the input signal, via an envelope follower, modulates the delay time.
Think My Bloody Valentine vibrato arm strumming.


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## Bricksnbeatles

KR3 said:


> Perhaps stereo delay lines where the amplitude of the input signal, via an envelope follower, modulates the delay time.
> Think My Bloody Valentine vibrato arm strumming.


That’s a bit like a trick I like to do for a dynamic stereo detune effect— an envelope follower triggers a relatively slow (50+ Millisecond sweep) pitch bend going from 0 to at most around 10¢ of bend, going up on one side, and down on the other, achievable by either modulating stereo delay lines in opposite directions, or plain old digital pitch shift (though that’s not quite as easy). It’s a really cool sound, and it would be interesting to see if it could be done with the Binaura.


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## maxl0rd

This is exactly what I have been looking for to host some of my stereo fv1 algorithms. 

Coming soon, or could boards be available before the programs are if you have your own programs already?


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## Robert

maxl0rd said:


> This is exactly what I have been looking for to host some of my stereo fv1 algorithms.
> 
> Coming soon, or could boards be available before the programs are if you have your own programs already?



The PCBs have been ready for a few months now, I just don't have a full set of stereo algorithms yet.


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## maxl0rd

Cool. Just curious, do you make source available for your programs or are they proprietary?


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## KR3

Robert said:


> The PCBs have been ready for a few months now, I just don't have a full set of stereo algorithms yet.


I’d buy a PCB even without the algorithms if they were available.


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## wrentema

Veeery eager to get one (or two). SoundCloud previews sounds so good!


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## Bricksnbeatles

Definitely very eager for this one to become available. 
Gonna have to start learning how to program stuff— a delay with independent delay times on each side would be sick. As would a normal stereo delay that can auto-pan at a rate independent from the delay time (ctl 1- delay time, ctl 2, feedback, ctl 3, pan speed).


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## KR3

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Definitely very eager for this one to become available.
> Gonna have to start learning how to program stuff— a delay with independent delay times on each side would be sick. As would a normal stereo delay that can auto-pan at a rate independent from the delay time (ctl 1- delay time, ctl 2, feedback, ctl 3, pan speed).



Yes, I’m keen to get my hands on this and start learning to program the FV-1.
Sean Costello’s talks on YouTube about reverb topologies are fascinating and worth watching if you haven’t checked them out already.


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## Bricksnbeatles

KR3 said:


> Yes, I’m keen to get my hands on this and start learning to program the FV-1.
> Sean Costello’s talks on YouTube about reverb topologies are fascinating and worth watching if you haven’t checked them out already.


Interesting! I’ll have to check those videos out.


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## phi1

If you want to start learning fv-1 programming, I highly recommend pedal-pcb’s fv-1 dev board project. You can flash code and play it all in one pedal. While the dev board is mono, you can write and flash code for stereo once the binaura does become available.


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## Sasan

This will probably be the last pedal I'll build myself...


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## KR3

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Interesting! I’ll have to check those videos out.


Here’s one to get you started:


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## Bricksnbeatles

Any chance we’ll be seeing the PCBs available for this (and the creamery?) by summertime?


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## NickC

Chuck D. Bones said:


> The obvious ones (all stereo out, of course):
> Chorus
> Thru-Zero Flanger
> Phase Shifter
> Ping-Pong Echo
> 
> And some not-so-obvious ones:
> Uni-Vibe
> Dual Auto-Wah



And a daydream band delay algo of course!


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## KR3

Any news on this?


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## Preverb

When this becomes available, would it be able to run the Hydra delay algo in stereo?


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## Robert

It could be done but the Binaura has no toggle switches for head selection, although the mode rotary switch could be used to select between a few different combinations...


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## zgrav

Will the board use the stereo in and out pins on the FV-1?   Is there an option to put the wet signal on one output and the dry signal on the other?


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## Robert

The board is full stereo in/out, but that will depend on the algorithm.   (Some could be mono in, stereo out)

By default the Mix potentiometer is a dual-ganged potentiometer that affects both channels simultaneously, but for my prototype build I wired in two separate pots for individual control over each side.   This would allow a wet/dry stereo output.


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## Bricksnbeatles

Anyone know of a concentric potentiometer with the same footprint as a PCB mount dual gang pot?


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## jeffwhitfield

Put me down as interested. Was looking at a Source Audio Ventris. Bit pricey though. Really just want a decent stereo reverb to go after my HX Stomp to get some better reverb effect. This might do the trick. 

What does the FV-1 reverbs sound like? Any good?


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## Bricksnbeatles

jeffwhitfield said:


> Put me down as interested. Was looking at a Source Audio Ventris. Bit pricey though. Really just want a decent stereo reverb to go after my HX Stomp to get some better reverb effect. This might do the trick.
> 
> What does the FV-1 reverbs sound like? Any good?


FV-1 verbs are pretty good, if not a bit rudimentary. FV-1 delays and mod effects generally outshine the reverbs imo, but the verbs can be perfectly good too— just a bit less exciting yk? There are a few Keeley verbs that use the FV-1 if you wanna check out some demos— I think the different “studio” verbs (Abbey Verb, Memphis Sun, Vibe o Verb, Gold Star) are all FV-1 based.


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## Chuck D. Bones

Noise and distortion are very low with the FV-1, especially compared to the PT2399.  As for the reverb's tone, it's down to the algorithm used.  The FV-1's built-in reverb algorithm is passable.


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## NickC

neunaber wet reverb is a fv-1 algo


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## ADAOCE

Bricksnbeatles said:


> FV-1 verbs are pretty good, if not a bit rudimentary. FV-1 delays and mod effects generally outshine the reverbs imo, but the verbs can be perfectly good too— just a bit less exciting yk? There are a few Keeley verbs that use the FV-1 if you wanna check out some demos— I think the different “studio” verbs (Abbey Verb, Memphis Sun, Vibe o Verb, Gold Star) are all FV-1 based.


GFI system skylar is a stereo reverb pedal with 4 of their best reverb algos. I have the Specular Tempus which I absolutely love but it’s expensive and possibly overkill for your needs.

Keeley hydra is cool too


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## R.O.C.K.E.R

Hi! is it there a chance to include an external tap tempo somehow? I know the PCB is finished but there could be some way to incluide a tap tempo in the FV-1 algorithms so we can use a free pot pin to attach a switch...??


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## phi1

It’s fairly simple  to mod these circuits to allow for tap tempo on one of the control inputs. There’s some schematic and info in my fv-1 dev board post. It takes some extra code work to format the ctrl input to read the footswitch fast enough for tap tempo sw. but now I’ve got it working very smoothly. 






						FV-1 Development Board (w TAP SW)
					

I finally finished my FV-1 Dev board.  It's been really fun seeing what some of the other folks on here are doing with the FV-1 boards, so here's my contribution.  I have added a momentary switch for tap tempo (or other functions), and an LED controlled by the DACR output for monitoring tempo...



					forum.pedalpcb.com


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