# Mantle Fuzz - No output when engaged



## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

Hello friends!

I have no output when the mantle fuzz is engaged. I'm very new to this and not entirely surprised - but thought I'd post to see if anyone had any thoughts!

I'm terrible at soldering and am working on it. I was really impatient and did not use sockets for the 4013 so maybe I fried that? But would that cause no sound at all? I also used an 1/8th resistor for one of them since I ran out of 1/4 but didn't think that would cause something like this?

Thanks!

EDIT: Works in bypass.


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## okstateblues (Nov 18, 2020)

Do you get power to the LED? Do you have sound in bypass? Also it looks like you used stranded wire and there is some bare wire above the eyelets. I would reheat those joints and push the wire further in to maybe address stray wires that may be touching another component. Also make sure the underside of the board is thoroughly clean. This may help in troubleshooting.


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

okstateblues said:


> Do you get power to the LED? Do you have sound in bypass? Also it looks like you used stranded wire and there is some bare wire above the eyelets. I would reheat those joints and push the wire further in to maybe address stray wires that may be touching another component. Also make sure the underside of the board is thoroughly clean. This may help in troubleshooting.


Yes power to the LED and yes sound in bypass. I'll clean up those bare wires and give it a good clean again too.


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## okstateblues (Nov 18, 2020)

Also where did you get your parts?


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

okstateblues said:


> Also where did you get your parts?


All from Tayda.


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## Chas Grant (Nov 18, 2020)

A couple of things real fast. Google how to Tin wire leads, it will give you a better connection between the wires and the pads. This is a Must DO! when soldering. Next check the circled areas in the attached pic. The top one looks like input jack ground lead is missing. On the bottom one, is this a string or wire strand?


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> A couple of things real fast. Google how to Tin wire leads, it will give you a better connection between the wires and the pads. This is a Must DO! when soldering. Next check the circled areas in the attached pic. The top one looks like input jack ground lead is missing. On the bottom one, is this a string or wire strand?View attachment 7789


Awesome - I'll check them out. I just started tinning the leads but I don't think I'm doing it correctly haha but to be fair - they look much better than my previous pedals wires did so improvement! I'll take a look at them though and redo the ones that are bad. For the bottom circle - I was cleaning the pcb with a cuetip and a few hairs must've gotten stuck on it.


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## Chas Grant (Nov 18, 2020)

I was hoping that's what it was. All your parts seem to be correct, so hopefully its something easy. Some of the solder joints look cold, you may want to reflow the joints. Another thing that bites everyone in the butt, more than once I might add, is that we test the circuit either out of the box or with the back of the box off so we can see the circuit. It is common to plug the guitar and amp into the wrong jacks. Make sure you didn't do that. I once trouble shot a circuit for quite some time before I caught this. The only reason I caught this is I turned the pedal over and realized that when I did this the cables crossed over each other. That's when I started using my sentence enhancers to come up with some colorful sentences!   I switched the cables and everything was good. ( and yes I have done it more than once )


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> I was hoping that's what it was. All your parts seem to be correct, so hopefully its something easy. Some of the solder joints look cold, you may want to reflow the joints. Another thing that bites everyone in the butt, more than once I might add, is that we test the circuit either out of the box or with the back of the box off so we can see the circuit. It is common to plug the guitar and amp into the wrong jacks. Make sure you didn't do that. I once trouble shot a circuit for quite some time before I caught this. The only reason I caught this is I turned the pedal over and realized that when I did this the cables crossed over each other. That's when I started using my sentence enhancers to come up with some colorful sentences!   I switched the cables and everything was good. ( and yes I have done it more than once )


I'll give them a reflow and see if anything happens! And I've totally done that too but triple checked that it wasn't the case haha I just ordered stuff to make a testing rig to not have to follow box until the PCB is tested so hopefully that helps sort stuff out. If the IC was fried - would that cause no sound to pass? Not sure if I should pull that out or leave it for now?


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 18, 2020)

Chas Grant said:


> I was hoping that's what it was. All your parts seem to be correct, so hopefully its something easy. Some of the solder joints look cold, you may want to reflow the joints. Another thing that bites everyone in the butt, more than once I might add, is that we test the circuit either out of the box or with the back of the box off so we can see the circuit. It is common to plug the guitar and amp into the wrong jacks. Make sure you didn't do that. I once trouble shot a circuit for quite some time before I caught this. The only reason I caught this is I turned the pedal over and realized that when I did this the cables crossed over each other. That's when I started using my sentence enhancers to come up with some colorful sentences!   I switched the cables and everything was good. ( and yes I have done it more than once )


I've done this too.

If you have a multimeter check the voltages on the IC pins. Red tip to pin and black to ground.


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

BuddytheReow said:


> I've done this too.
> 
> If you have a multimeter check the voltages on the IC pins. Red tip to pin and black to ground.


I will when I get home tonight! When I did them last night, they tended to either be 9.2 or 0 though, which I thought was strange. I'll record them and upload a picture.


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## Chas Grant (Nov 18, 2020)

nichgriff said:


> I'll give them a reflow and see if anything happens! And I've totally done that too but triple checked that it wasn't the case haha I just ordered stuff to make a testing rig to not have to follow box until the PCB is tested so hopefully that helps sort stuff out. If the IC was fried - would that cause no sound to pass? Not sure if I should pull that out or leave it for now?


If the op amp was fried, then no sound what so ever. If you fried the flip flop then you wouldn't have the octave effect but you could still have the fuzz effect, depending on the type of failure of the flip flop. Take the voltages like Buddy suggested. The NJM4558 should be easy. The flip flop will be weird on the readings. Pin 14 should be +VDD, if its >7Vdc then it should be good (didn't calculate value, but its 9V - Vfwd of D100 - Vr103). Pins 4,  7,  and 10 should be at ground potential. Pin 11 will be an AC signal when you strum the guitar, check with audio probe if you have one. Pins 13 and 12 (Pin 9 is same as 12) will be a square wave and 180 degrees out of phase with each other, with no AC input(guitar strum) it will be a DC with one high and the other low. Pin 3 is tied to pin 13, they should be the same. Pins 1 and 2 are similar to pins 12 and 13. No AC input, one high and one low. (Pin 5 is same as pin 2)


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

Just got home and grabbed the 4558 readings but was kindly asked to work on pedals later  so here's the 4558:
1: 1.6
2: 2.8
3: 4.0
4: 0 
5: 4.4
6: 4.4
7: .5
8: 9.29


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## Mcknib (Nov 18, 2020)

Is the base pin soldered on the 3904 between the ICs looks like there's no solder on it but it's difficult to see clearly


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

Mcknib said:


> Is the base pin soldered on the 3904 between the ICs looks like there's no solder on it but it's difficult to see clearly
> 
> View attachment 7793


There is solder in there - but I reflowed it and added more. No luck.


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

I don't have another 4558 on hand (more coming in a few weeks) - can I try putting a TL072 in the socket and see what happens? Would that help at all?


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## Nostradoomus (Nov 18, 2020)

Pin 1 of your 4558 seems pretty low to me, check your connections and values all around there.


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

Nostradoomus said:


> Pin 1 of your 4558 seems pretty low to me, check your connections and values all around there.


1 and 7 both seemed really low to me, but I don't have enough experience to know, just guess haha I'll check everything again.


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

IT'S ALIVE!

I stuck the TL072 in and fired it up - works like a charm. The 4558 must be bad. 

It sounds great with the TL072 - what changes with the 4558?


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## Nostradoomus (Nov 18, 2020)

Probably nothing. Glad you got it goin!


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## nichgriff (Nov 18, 2020)

Hello friends!

I have no output when the mantle fuzz is engaged. I'm very new to this and not entirely surprised - but thought I'd post to see if anyone had any thoughts!

I'm terrible at soldering and am working on it. I was really impatient and did not use sockets for the 4013 so maybe I fried that? But would that cause no sound at all? I also used an 1/8th resistor for one of them since I ran out of 1/4 but didn't think that would cause something like this?

Thanks!

EDIT: Works in bypass.


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## BuddytheReow (Nov 18, 2020)

Always a good feeling when it fires up


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## Chas Grant (Nov 18, 2020)

It is a good feeling when it comes to life!!!!
 As far as a difference between the TL072 and the 4558, not much. If you like the sound of the 072 the go for it. Audibly, its hard to tell which is which. I have experimented with them on breadboards and the 4558 is a more robust device. I had the circuit connected wrong and it didn't sound good, switched out a 4558 for a 072, and fried the 072.      I put the 4558 back in and started troubleshooting further and found the misplaced component creating the issue. So that's my opinion based on personal experience, it's also why I have quite a few 4558's in the parts bin and only a couple 072's.


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