# Kliché Mini Noob Issues



## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)

Hey guys - 2nd pedal build here and having a pretty bizarre issue - getting no difference with pedal 'on' vs 'off' - both are just my completely dry signal. LED works with switch. Checked continuity on the footswitch and that checks out. All 3 knobs do nothing with the LED on, or off. No change in volume, gain or tone. I've checked voltages at all 3 IC's and they are comparable within 0.3v of what others have posted. I did have all 3 installed backwards initially. Also had the LED backwards initially. My solders are certainly amateur. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction here. Many thanks in advance!


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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)




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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)




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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)




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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)




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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)




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## fig (May 15, 2022)

Do you have an insulator on that trebles pot?


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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)

fig said:


> Do you have an insulator on that pot?


Between it and the PCB? I did when I was having issues - I pulled it out to check solders underneath. Not making contact though.


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## fig (May 15, 2022)

I’d check the connection between the footswitch and the pcb.


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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)

fig said:


> I’d check the connection between the footswitch and the pcb.


That checks out. I checked continuity at the pcb level for the footswitch in both positions.


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## zgrav (May 15, 2022)

when you are getting sound with both positions for the footswitch, unplug the power from the pedal and see if you are still getting sound in both positions.  goal is to confirm that the circuit is really switching to the PCB when the switch is activated and also taking the bypass out of the circuit.


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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)

When I unplug the power, no volume in either switch position. As an aside, I also noticed a bit more volume when bypassed vs when LED is on.


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## zgrav (May 15, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> When I unplug the power, no volume in either switch position. As an aside, I also noticed a bit more volume when bypassed vs when LED is on.


I forgot that pedal has a buffer.  Do you have an audio probe?  Plenty of discussion on the forums here about making them and using them.  You should be getting the effected signal on S3 and the buffered signal on S1.     The footswitch alternates connecting S2 to those two sources.  I would suggest seeing if the sound at S3 is present, and whether it is altered when you rotate the pots.


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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)

zgrav said:


> I forgot that pedal has a buffer.  Do you have an audio probe?  Plenty of discussion on the forums here about making them and using them.  You should be getting the effected signal on S3 and the buffered signal on S1.     The footswitch alternates connecting S2 to those two sources.  I would suggest seeing if the sound at S3 is present, and whether it is altered when you rotate the pots.


At the moment I don't have a probe. Looks like I'll be building one when I can find some time. Already have the link on how to build/use saved.


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## Gsatterw (May 16, 2022)

So dumb question - looks I put the footswitch upside down on the little board. That shouldn't matter right?


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## fig (May 16, 2022)

The pins are reversed, but it looks like that would just reverse the switch function?


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## Gsatterw (May 16, 2022)

fig said:


> The pins are reversed, but it looks like that would just reverse the switch function?


Yea functionally it should be equivalent is what I'm thinking.


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## EGRENIER (May 16, 2022)

Did you double check you ceramic cap values ?  C8 and C14 ?

They are both in the Opamp circuit, I had a similar problem with a Boost pedal where I put a 39u instead of a 390p, the pedal was not amplifying the sound and the tone had no impact either....


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## fig (May 16, 2022)

R14 appears to be a 150KΩ instead of 15KΩ..could be the picture though (looks a bit o-range)


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## Jonnytexas (May 16, 2022)

I think you will have better luck boxing it with the footswitch in the proper orientation.  I would fix that before doing anything else, especially since it seems likely to be a switching issue.


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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)

Hey guys - 2nd pedal build here and having a pretty bizarre issue - getting no difference with pedal 'on' vs 'off' - both are just my completely dry signal. LED works with switch. Checked continuity on the footswitch and that checks out. All 3 knobs do nothing with the LED on, or off. No change in volume, gain or tone. I've checked voltages at all 3 IC's and they are comparable within 0.3v of what others have posted. I did have all 3 installed backwards initially. Also had the LED backwards initially. My solders are certainly amateur. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction here. Many thanks in advance!


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## Gsatterw (May 16, 2022)

fig said:


> R14 appears to be a 150KΩ instead of 15KΩ..could be the picture though (looks a bit o-range)


Yea colors didn't come out great. it is red, so 15k.


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## Gsatterw (May 16, 2022)

Jonnytexas said:


> I think you will have better luck boxing it with the footswitch in the proper orientation.  I would fix that before doing anything else, especially since it seems likely to be a switching issue.


It goes into the box the same as it would otherwise. That mini pcb is symmetric so it functions the same either way...I've thought about that one a lot...i have been known to be dumb before though. The continuity checked out on the footswitch though. 1/2 and 4/5, 2/3 and 5/6 go together.


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## EGRENIER (May 16, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> Yea colors didn't come out great. it is red, so 15k.


Did you check your ceramic cap values ?  C8 and C14 ?


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## Gsatterw (May 16, 2022)

EGRENIER said:


> Did you check your ceramic cap values ?  C8 and C14 ?


They are stamped 391 and 821 so those should be good.


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## fig (May 16, 2022)

Were the voltages measured before or after correcting the orientation?


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## Gsatterw (May 16, 2022)

fig said:


> Were the voltages measured before or after correcting the orientation?


After.

More info: first off, audio probes are the coolest thing ever. After poking around for a while the biggest things that stand out to me are I have no signal on the nodes going into pin 2 or 6 of IC2 with the gain all the way up. With the gain all the way down I get nothing on pin 6 and the slightest, and I mean ever so barely audible signal on pin 2. Not sure if this is normal or not. Also with the gain all the way up I figured I'd get more gain off of pin 7 of IC1...any gain really. Sounds like my dry signal. 

What does it all mean?


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## Gsatterw (May 16, 2022)

May as well post my IC voltages:

IC1
1. 4.53
2. 4.53
3. 3.54 (always starts higher and drops?)
4.  0
5. 4.52
6. 4.53
7. 4.55
8. 9.04

IC2
1. 4.52
2. 4.52
3. 4.52
4. -8.59
5. 4.53
6. 4.53
7. 4.54
8. 16.23

IC3
1. 9.04
2. 4.72
3. 0
4. -4.13
5. -8.59
6. 4.51
7. 5.77
8. 9.04


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## Gsatterw (May 16, 2022)

If I'm getting the correct voltages, does it mean that my op amps are good? Or is it possible that they are junk despite having all of the correct voltages?


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## Gsatterw (May 17, 2022)

Can anyone confirm that I should be hearing signal from pins 2 and 6 of IC2? I've been trying to study up on op amps, but can't find this specific answer anywhere. My gut is that I should be hearing something.


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## EGRENIER (May 17, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> Can anyone confirm that I should be hearing signal from pins 2 and 6 of IC2? I've been trying to study up on op amps, but can't find this specific answer anywhere. My gut is that I should be hearing something.


From the schematic, you should be getting sound on IC1 and IC2 pins 1, 3, 5 and 7 for sure.


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## Gsatterw (May 17, 2022)

EGRENIER said:


> From the schematic, you should be getting sound on IC1 and IC2 pins 1, 3, 5 and 7 for sure.


Hmm so maybe I shouldn't be able to hear anything at pins 2 and 6?


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## EGRENIER (May 17, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> Hmm so maybe I shouldn't be able to hear anything at pins 2 and 6?


2 and 6 are the inverted input. I think you should hear the signal, but I can’t confirm. But the above mention you should for sure. If you don’t, then that’s where we need to dig in.


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## Gsatterw (May 17, 2022)

EGRENIER said:


> 2 and 6 are the inverted input. I think you should hear the signal, but I can’t confirm. But the above mention you should for sure. If you don’t, then that’s where we need to dig in.


I'm thinking 3 and 5 on IC2 shouldn't have a signal since all they get is VRef. 2 and 6 I figured would carry the signal to the op amp.


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## EGRENIER (May 17, 2022)

So IC1 audio on pin 1,3,5 and 7. And on IC2 pin 1,2,6 and 7….


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## Gsatterw (May 17, 2022)

EGRENIER said:


> So IC1 audio on pin 1,3,5 and 7. And on IC2 pin 1,2,6 and 7….
> 
> View attachment 26389


Why wouldn't IC1 pins 2 and 6 have audio? Shouldn't pins 1 and 2 be the same signal? Is this what you were able to measure on yours? Sorry for the billion questions. Trying to learn all I can.


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## EGRENIER (May 17, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> Why wouldn't IC1 pins 2 and 6 have audio? Shouldn't pins 1 and 2 be the same signal? Is this what you were able to measure on yours? Sorry for the billion questions. Trying to learn all I can.


I believe they should, the one I listed are only the one I can be sure. I’m also learning in this process.


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## Gsatterw (May 17, 2022)

EGRENIER said:


> I believe they should, the one I listed are only the one I can be sure. I’m also learning in this process.


Gotcha. Do you happen to have a kliche or equivalent to check? Or does anyone else for that matter?


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## BuddytheReow (May 17, 2022)

IC1 should have signal on both input pins. Pins 3 and 5 are the positive input. In this circuit consider it the raw/original signal. Pins 2 and 6 are the negative input  and are part of the feedback loop from the output pins. You can tell it's a feedback loop since you can trace the signal from output back to input. This is also a gain stage. 

IC 2 won't have any signal on pins 3 and 5 since they come directly from your power stage


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## giovanni (May 17, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> I'm thinking 3 and 5 on IC2 shouldn't have a signal since all they get is VRef. 2 and 6 I figured would carry the signal to the op amp.


Correct. 2 and 6 should have signal.

Edit: wrote this before my phone loaded the post above!


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## Gsatterw (May 17, 2022)

Ok new info: turns out when I crank the volume on my amp I do have signal on IC2 pins 2 and 6. Also, when I short pins 2 and 3 on the volume pot I actually get more volume out of the pedal. With the volume pot shorted, if I short Gain.1 (not sure which direction) I actually get distortion out of the pedal...so I guess my pots are bad? Is it possible that I melted them or something on install?


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## Gsatterw (May 15, 2022)

Hey guys - 2nd pedal build here and having a pretty bizarre issue - getting no difference with pedal 'on' vs 'off' - both are just my completely dry signal. LED works with switch. Checked continuity on the footswitch and that checks out. All 3 knobs do nothing with the LED on, or off. No change in volume, gain or tone. I've checked voltages at all 3 IC's and they are comparable within 0.3v of what others have posted. I did have all 3 installed backwards initially. Also had the LED backwards initially. My solders are certainly amateur. Hoping someone can point me in the right direction here. Many thanks in advance!


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## HamishR (May 18, 2022)

You might be right. Why is there solder on the legs of the pots on the underside where they emerge from the pot? That's not normal.


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## giovanni (May 18, 2022)

HamishR said:


> You might be right. Why is there solder on the legs of the pots on the underside where they emerge from the pot? That's not normal.


Sometimes solder flows on the other side. That happens to me all the time so it may be ok.


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## giovanni (May 18, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> Ok new info: turns out when I crank the volume on my amp I do have signal on IC2 pins 2 and 6. Also, when I short pins 2 and 3 on the volume pot I actually get more volume out of the pedal. With the volume pot shorted, if I short Gain.1 (not sure which direction) I actually get distortion out of the pedal...so I guess my pots are bad? Is it possible that I melted them or something on install?


If you use your audio probe on pin 1 of IC2 do you get the same amount of volume?


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## HamishR (May 18, 2022)

giovanni said:


> Sometimes solder flows on the other side. That happens to me all the time so it may be ok.


No... not... the _dark_ side?? I've honestly never seen that happen when soldering pots. To me it would indicate taking too long and overheating the joint.


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## Gsatterw (May 18, 2022)

HamishR said:


> You might be right. Why is there solder on the legs of the pots on the underside where they emerge from the pot? That's not normal.


I had initially soldered wires to each leg on all pots. I was thrown off by all of the extra wires in the kit. When I realized they were supposed to mount to the pcb I desoldered the wires. I've heard of people putting pots through hell and having them be fine. I am pretty careful to not use excess heat/time when I solder anything so I'll be surprised if that is what damaged them.

I'm getting some pretty wacky resistances when I try and measure the pots, so I guess I'll pull them off and measure them off the board.


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## Gsatterw (May 18, 2022)

giovanni said:


> If you use your audio probe on pin 1 of IC2 do you get the same amount of volume?


Yes. Took me a while to realize where/how I was losing that volume.


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## giovanni (May 18, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> Yes. Took me a while to realize where/how I was losing that volume.


Ok then it is possible that the volume pot is busted. But it’s also possible that the op amp is not providing enough volume. Is it much much louder than bypass?


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## Gsatterw (May 18, 2022)

giovanni said:


> Ok then it is possible that the volume pot is busted. But it’s also possible that the op amp is not providing enough volume. Is it much much louder than bypass?


Yea it's a good bit louder than bypass. Not like searingly louder, but noticeably so. My gain pot(s) are also busted, apparently, so that impacts the volume also.


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## giovanni (May 18, 2022)

Gsatterw said:


> Yea it's a good bit louder than bypass. Not like searingly louder, but noticeably so. My gain pot(s) are also busted, apparently, so that impacts the volume also.


Yeah. At this point it’s a bit tricky to tell what’s going on if you have multiple malfunctioning components


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## Gsatterw (May 18, 2022)

giovanni said:


> Yeah. At this point it’s a bit tricky to tell what’s going on if you have multiple malfunctioning components


Well this has been quite an adventure. I'll report back on my findings. Also got more pots on order just in case.


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## Gsatterw (May 18, 2022)

So I painstakingly desoldered the volume pot with wick (misplaced sucker, new one on order) and measured the resistance. I was getting OL at the pins, and up closer to the pot where the little holes are if I pushed down really hard I could get the correct resistances. I used some 91% rubbing alcohol and cleaned the leads really well and was then able to read to correct resistances at the pins. Resoldered and now my volume works. Gain and treble pots are still busted. Gonna wait on the solder sucker for those. Guess I could try reflowing them first.


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## Gsatterw (May 18, 2022)

Alright. Reflowed/added solder to the other two pots. All seems to work now. Sorry for taking up so much thread on "I suck at soldering pots".

Slight side issue: when I unplug my guitar with the pedal on, I get a sustained squeal from the amp...anyone have any thoughts on that?


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## BuddytheReow (May 18, 2022)

Does it go away when you're plugged in?


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## Gsatterw (May 18, 2022)

BuddytheReow said:


> Does it go away when you're plugged in?


Yea totally.


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## Gsatterw (May 18, 2022)

It's kind of cool actually- I can make it change pitch by turning the gain and treble pots up. Goes away completely if I turn the gain and treble down a bit. Anyone able to reproduce this?


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