# Twill Deluxe LEDs Not Lighting Up And...



## joelorigo (Apr 12, 2020)

Just finished the Tweed Twill Deluxe and it is working but neither of the LED lights are lighting up. And I'm not sure if the 2nd switch is doing anything. Looking at a video of the Les Lies the 2nd channel is subtle but with the LED not coming on I'm not convinced stepping on the switch is doing anything.


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## zgrav (Apr 12, 2020)

use your DMM to see if you are getting power at the LEDs when the effect is engaged.  If you are not, then the problem is likely that you to reverse the wire connections to the LED.   if you are not getting power at the LED when the effect is engaged you need to check the parts of the circuit that provide the power to the LED, starting at the PCB connections.


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## joelorigo (Apr 12, 2020)

zgrav said:


> use your DMM to see if you are getting power at the LEDs when the effect is engaged.  If you are not, then the problem is likely that you to reverse the wire connections to the LED



How exactly does one do this? (If I check the LED with the DMM they light up when the pedal is not connected to anything - Positive rod to the positive LED lead and negative rod to the negative LED lead.)



zgrav said:


> if you are not getting power at the LED when the effect is engaged you need to check the parts of the circuit that provide the power to the LED, starting at the PCB connections.



Do you mean that the way the LEDs are soldered to the PCB? Also, does one feed into the other? As ii if the first one isn't working, the second won't?


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## music6000 (Apr 12, 2020)

Both of your Led's need to be unsoldered and turned around
You can see the Flat side at Base of LED's are connected to* A*node
The Flat side is *K*athode


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## joelorigo (Apr 12, 2020)

music6000 said:


> Both of your Led's need to be unsoldered and turned around
> You can see the Flat side at Base of LED's are connected to* A*node
> The Flat side is *K*athode
> 
> View attachment 3988


Is this wrong then? It seems opposite to what you are saying


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## music6000 (Apr 12, 2020)

Yes , Long leg is Anode, Short Leg is Cathode!


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## music6000 (Apr 13, 2020)

joelorigo said:


> Just finished the Tweed Twill Deluxe and it is working but neither of the LED lights are lighting up. And I'm not sure if the 2nd switch is doing anything. Looking at a video of the Les Lies the 2nd channel is subtle but with the LED not coming on I'm not convinced stepping on the switch is doing anything.


The knob on the Left is a Master Volume, The Toggle switch selects 3  different *Fixed *types of Gain!
The knob on the Right only works in controlling the Level of Boost when you switch the Right Footswitch On!

Have you Desoldered and turned those 2 LED's legs 180 degrees?.


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## music6000 (Apr 13, 2020)

If you find that it has too much Gain, Change the 2N5088 for a 2N4401. Same pinout, just next Less Gain Transistor!


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## GenoBluzGtr (Apr 13, 2020)

I was also bitten recently by 'going by the picture' in the build docs.   The LONG lead is the Anode "A", and the short lead is the Cathode "K", don't go by square pad vs circular and don't go by the picture in the off board wiring page of the build docs.   Simply put the long lead in the "A" hole. (sounds kinda rude, but... oh well! Ha).


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## joelorigo (Apr 13, 2020)

music6000 said:


> The knob on the Left is a Master Volume, The Toggle switch selects 3  different *Fixed *types of Gain!
> The knob on the Right only works in controlling the Level of Boost when you switch the Right Footswitch On!
> 
> Have you Desoldered and turned those 2 LED's legs 180 degrees?.


Thank you. That seem like what it it's doing. Boost seems most pronounced one the center switch


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## joelorigo (Apr 13, 2020)

music6000 said:


> If you find that it has too much Gain, Change the 2N5088 for a 2N4401. Same pinout, just next Less Gain Transistor!


No I like gain


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## joelorigo (Apr 13, 2020)

Thanks everyone!


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## joelorigo (Apr 15, 2020)

Actually now that I've had time to mess with this pedal, the LEDs are working but I think I might have a bad foot switch. On the boost side, the knob effects the volume/gain regardless of the foot switch position - whether the LED is on or off. And the LED on that side sometimes stays on after pursuing the button. Is a bad foot switch a thing?


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## music6000 (Apr 15, 2020)

Check this for Faults:


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## joelorigo (Apr 17, 2020)

music6000 said:


> Check this for Faults:
> View attachment 4033



No solder touching between any of the 4 pads
I get continuity on the 2 green pads in both foot switch positions. I get continuity on the 2 red pads in both foot switch positions.
So based on above, bad foot switch, correct?


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## zgrav (Apr 17, 2020)

see if you get continuity across the 3 unused terminals in the middle of your footswitch


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## joelorigo (Apr 17, 2020)

Using the numbering below, which I think is correct, do you mean 4 and 6?? The answer is no.


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## zgrav (Apr 17, 2020)

if you do not have continuity between 4 and 6, see if you get continuity between 4 and 5 or between 5 and 6 each time you press the switch.  if so, the middle row of your footswitch seems to be working.

now test the 1-2-3 and 7-8-9 by seeing if you are getting continuity between 1 and 3, and 7 and 9?  (I think that is the same as what you were testing on the PCB)  

you can isolate whether the continuity between the red dots, and between the green dots is due to the switch by removing one on the wires from the footswitch for each color and seeing if you still get continuity between the reds and the greens on the pcb,   OR see whether you still have continuity between 1 and 3, and 7 and 9 after one wire is removed at the switch from each set.

so -- is the continuity coming from the footswitch or from the PCB?


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## joelorigo (Apr 17, 2020)

4 and 5 yes - 5 and 6 no. Press the switch - 4 and 5 no - 5 and 6 yes.

1 and 3 yes - 7 and 9 yes. Press the switch - 1 and 3 yes - 7 and 9 yes.

I will try removing a wire later or tomorrow


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## zgrav (Apr 17, 2020)

sounds like your footswitch is OK.  seems like you may have a piece of solder or stray wire causing a problem on your PCB


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## joelorigo (Apr 12, 2020)

Just finished the Tweed Twill Deluxe and it is working but neither of the LED lights are lighting up. And I'm not sure if the 2nd switch is doing anything. Looking at a video of the Les Lies the 2nd channel is subtle but with the LED not coming on I'm not convinced stepping on the switch is doing anything.


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## joelorigo (Apr 17, 2020)

Here's a photo of the top & bottom. See anything amiss?


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## music6000 (Apr 17, 2020)

joelorigo said:


> Using the numbering below, which I think is correct, do you mean 4 and 6?? The answer is no.
> View attachment 4048


remove Wire from Number 1 Footswitch Pad, you should get no Boost but LED WILL remain On
Without touching Footswitch, Put wire from Pad 1 Footswitch to Pad 3, if you get Boost, Your Footswitch is a Dud


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## joelorigo (Apr 17, 2020)

music6000 said:


> remove Wire from Number 1 Footswitch Pad, you should get no Boost but LED WILL remain On
> Without touching Footswitch, Put wire from Pad 1 Footswitch to Pad 3, if you get Boost, Your Footswitch is a Dud


This is exactly what's happening


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## music6000 (Apr 17, 2020)

joelorigo said:


> This is exactly what's happening


Put Pad 1 wire on 4 & Pad 2 wire on 5 & see what happens, Seems like middle switching is OK


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## music6000 (Apr 18, 2020)

*This one you looked at has PCB pins, you don't want that one!

You want this one*








						CIC Blue 3PDT
					

Small Bear Electronics DIY Parts




					smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com


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## bengarland (Apr 18, 2020)

I have two points which are not exactly specific to this problem, but may help:

1) To remember LED orientation I came up with a mnemonic: Kathy is short and fat, so she has a negative personality.

Kathy = cathode (K), short = short leg, negative polarity. Fat = when you look at the LED up close, the big piece inside is also the negative side.

2) I once had a problem when the LED stayed on, even though the switch was otherwise working fine and the pedal sounded great. Knowing that it would be extremely odd for just that one particular part of the switch to fail, and not seeing any other possibility for how the LED could stay on, I took the wild guess of looking at my connections on the switch. It turned out that there was a small line of solder on the underside of the switch PCB (the little part about 1" square that helps make wiring easier at the switch) connecting the middle and top-middle posts which control the LED. It must have spattered when I was soldering the board to the switch.

Took me a while to figure that one out. And honestly, it probably happened because it was one of the older style switch PCBs with the huge holes, instead of the new ones that have the tighter slots. I ended up scraping it off with a tiny tweezer that fit between the board and the switch. In the future, I'll be sure to lift to board away from the switch a little bit before I solder it so that I can more easily take a peek at the underside and make sure it looks clean on both sides.

It just goes to show you that sometimes you do everything just right and there's still some weird "once in a million" thing that seems completely implausible that's the actual solution.


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## joelorigo (Apr 19, 2020)

bengarland said:


> I have two points which are not exactly specific to this problem, but may help:
> 
> 1) To remember LED orientation I came up with a mnemonic: Kathy is short and fat, so she has a negative personality.
> 
> ...



Thanks, that's a good way to remember the A & K

And for the "once in a million" perspective


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## joelorigo (Apr 19, 2020)

music6000 said:


> Put Pad 1 wire on 4 & Pad 2 wire on 5 & see what happens, Seems like middle switching is OK


Connecting it likes this makes it work like it is supposed to. That's nice!

The one thing is that the LED sometimes stays on. Pressing the foot switch slightly, without getting to the "click," can make it go on or off. So it does seem like a funny switch, no?


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## music6000 (Apr 19, 2020)

joelorigo said:


> Connecting it likes this makes it work like it is supposed to. That's nice!
> 
> The one thing is that the LED sometimes stays on. Pressing the foot switch slightly, without getting to the "click," can make it go on or off. So it does seem like a funny switch, no?


The Switch Is Dicked!!!


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## joelorigo (Apr 19, 2020)

Ok. I might have another one to replace it. But I put in an order to small bear today that had some of the CIC Blue ones so either way I'll replace it. Hopefully this will be the end of this thread. Thanks everyone!


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## Chuck D. Bones (Apr 19, 2020)

bengarland said:


> 1) To remember LED orientation I came up with a mnemonic: Kathy is short and fat, so she has a negative personality.



I can see why Kathy dumped you.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Apr 19, 2020)

joelorigo said:


> Ok. I might have another one to replace it. But I put in an order to small bear today that had some of the CIC Blue ones so either way I'll replace it. Hopefully this will be the end of this thread. Thanks everyone!



Wait, what?  Small Bear's back open!  YAY!!!


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## phi1 (Apr 19, 2020)

Chuck D. Bones said:


> Wait, what?  Small Bear's back open!  YAY!!!



I didn’t realize either... and they got some slick new translucent enclosure colors!


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## joelorigo (Apr 19, 2020)

They are only open again until tomorrow night.


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## bengarland (Apr 20, 2020)

One more hint, which strangely enough is from yesterday:

I had a switch that wasn't working correctly. It would engage and the LED would turn on, but sometimes I'd get no sound. I noticed if I depressed the switch just a little bit (before the "click" action) and wiggled it, it would often fully activate and I'd get sound. Or if I stomped on it really hard I'd get sound almost every time.

So I decided to pop it open in-place by prying the 4 clips on the side and taking off the top, which was a LOT easier than disconnecting everything and wiring up a new switch. I then removed the 3 thin metal plates at the bottom, and bent each one a tiny bit from the center... maybe just a tad less than 1mm. The idea is that the bend makes the plates sit closer to the contacts on the bottom of the switch and gives a more secure connection when the switch pushes down on them. I put the plates back in, bent side down, and reassembled the switch.

Works perfectly now. Don't be afraid to take that switch apart. If I can do it anybody can  There's not much to them and aside from a part actually being broken in half or worn out from years of use, it looks like there's not a lot that can go wrong otherwise.


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## music6000 (Apr 20, 2020)

It shouldn't bend in the First place, I've used well over 100 CIC Blue Footswitch's with Solder Lug & ROHS stamp, never had a failure yet!
Small Bear sells them!


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## joelorigo (Apr 20, 2020)

bengarland said:


> One more hint, which strangely enough is from yesterday:
> 
> I had a switch that wasn't working correctly. It would engage and the LED would turn on, but sometimes I'd get no sound. I noticed if I depressed the switch just a little bit (before the "click" action) and wiggled it, it would often fully activate and I'd get sound. Or if I stomped on it really hard I'd get sound almost every time.
> 
> ...



Oh that sounds like fun. I'll try it!


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## joelorigo (May 19, 2020)

Update: 

Replaced the foot switch with a new one. Pedal works perfectly. 

Took apart the buggy  foot switch and found that one of the 3 plates was not sitting flat on the bottom, it was on its side against the wall.

Thanks everyone for the help. How do I make it "solved?"


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