# Spirit Box switch pop



## Danbieranowski (May 28, 2021)

Just confirming, would this be resolved with the non-latching simple relay?









						Basic Relay Bypass - PedalPCB.com
					

Relay Bypass Module




					www.pedalpcb.com


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## finebyfine (May 28, 2021)

For what it's worth my spirit box that I finished a couple of weeks ago doesn't have a pop. There is a _barely_ audible click when engaging and disengaging that I honestly only caught after recording a quick demo looking for it.


__
		https://soundcloud.com/finebyfine%2Fspiritbox%2Fs-GTdJmzCCsvT


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## Danbieranowski (May 28, 2021)

finebyfine said:


> For what it's worth my spirit box that I finished a couple of weeks ago doesn't have a pop. There is a _barely_ audible click when engaging and disengaging that I honestly only caught after recording a quick demo looking for it.
> 
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/finebyfine%2Fspiritbox%2Fs-GTdJmzCCsvT


Same for mine, it’s just annoyingly noticeable on the high gain channel. If I could mitigate it altogether I’d be stoked.


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## Nostradoomus (May 28, 2021)

Test for voltage on your output, your 1uf output cap may be leaking. If so replace it with a film cap!


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## Danbieranowski (May 28, 2021)

Nostradoomus said:


> Test for voltage on your output, your 1uf output cap may be leaking. If so replace it with a film cap!


Unfortunately, it isn’t in my possession anymore. Just researching solutions for future builds.


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## Nostradoomus (May 28, 2021)

Anything with an electrolytic cap on the output that pops, that’s where I start if pull down resistors are already in play.


Danbieranowski said:


> Unfortunately, it isn’t in my possession anymore. Just researching solutions for future builds.


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## Danbieranowski (May 28, 2021)

Nostradoomus said:


> Anything with an electrolytic cap on the output that pops, that’s where I start if pull down resistors are already in play.


Good to know. Beyond that, would the Simple Relay Bypass also correct the switch pop?


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## Robert (May 28, 2021)

Some of the EQD-inspired designs have rather high output pulldown resistors... 

Changing R7 to 10K might help.


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## Danbieranowski (May 28, 2021)

I'll try a film box on C2 and a 10k on R7 next build.


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## Barry (May 30, 2021)

Good info, I'm about to start a Spirit Box in my next group of builds


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## Danbieranowski (May 30, 2021)

Barry said:


> Good info, I'm about to start a Spirit Box in my next group of builds


There’s another thread with some substitute values for volume loss and such. Search the board so you can make sure you know all the hints.


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## ADAOCE (May 30, 2021)

Barry said:


> Good info, I'm about to start a Spirit Box in my next group of builds



volume drop mod is great but to be honest the increased dwell mod to make it self oscillate is not worth it.


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 18, 2021)

Still getting a noticeable pop on high gain amps with a film box on C2 and a 10k resistor on R7. I have both socketed in case there are other suggestions.

Gotta go back to my original question for this. 

Would a relay prevent any noticeable pop?
Any help would be appreciated.


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## finebyfine (Jun 18, 2021)

Just replying to get notifications on any workarounds, of course after more use and after I posted that demo it's bothering me more


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## Nostradoomus (Jun 18, 2021)

Danbieranowski said:


> Still getting a noticeable pop on high gain amps with a film box on C2 and a 10k resistor on R7. I have both socketed in case there are other suggestions.
> 
> Gotta go back to my original question for this.
> 
> ...



That leads me the LED…if you take it out does it still pop?


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 22, 2021)

Nostradoomus said:


> That leads me the LED…if you take it out does it still pop?


Yeah it still pops without the LED. Here’s a black screen video (I just set my phone on my desk) demonstrating the sound. On low gain it’s not really noticeable but high gain and it pops out.

I hate to harp on this, but can anyone answer whether a relay switch would help with this? No one has spoken on that as a solution and I’ve read it’s helpful when switch pops are an issue. 









						Spirit Box pop on high gain
					






					youtube.com


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## fig (Jun 22, 2021)

Is the pop present on the switch, board, or both (does it trace throughout the circuit)?


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## Robert (Jun 22, 2021)

Danbieranowski said:


> I hate to harp on this, but can anyone answer whether a relay switch would help with this? No one has spoken on that as a solution and I’ve read it’s helpful when switch pops are an issue.



Unless it's the switch itself causing the noise, using relay bypass _might_ not help, and in some cases could even make it worse.

A relay module that mutes the signal when switching could help but I've heard just as many complaints about the momentary dropout in signal as the switch pop it's trying to correct.   It just depends on which one bugs you more.   Some are probably better than others, and it likely depends on the circuit you're pairing it with.

A buffered bypass of some sort (Boss / vintage Ibanez style) would probably quieten it right down.  (ducks for cover)


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 22, 2021)

fig said:


> Is the pop present on the switch, board, or both (does it trace throughout the circuit)?


Not totally sure the best way of testing this, but if I use a probe on the IN (wire to board input) labeled spot on the 3PDT wiring board soldered to my switch, there is no noticeable pop when engaging and disengaging the pedal). If I put the probe on pin 15 of the PT2399 I hear the pop when I engage and disengage the footswitch. If I put it on the OUT (wire to output Jack) I do hear it pop when I engage and disengage.


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 22, 2021)

Robert said:


> Unless it's the switch itself causing the noise, using relay bypass _might_ not help, and in some cases could even make it worse.
> 
> A relay module that mutes the signal when switching could help but I've heard just as many complaints about the momentary dropout in signal as the switch pop it's trying to correct.   It just depends on which one bugs you more.   Some are probably better than others, and it likely depends on the circuit you're pairing it with.
> 
> A buffered bypass of some sort (Boss / vintage Ibanez style) would probably quieten it right down.  (ducks for cover)


I am 100% okay with buffered bypass. Just want an effective way of getting rid of the pop.


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## fig (Jun 22, 2021)

Danbieranowski said:


> Not totally sure the best way of testing this, but if I use a probe on the IN (wire to board input) labeled spot on the 3PDT wiring board soldered to my switch, there is no noticeable pop when engaging and disengaging the pedal). If I put the probe on pin 15 of the PT2399 I hear the pop when I engage and disengage the footswitch. If I put it on the OUT (wire to output Jack) I do hear it pop when I engage and disengage.


You've probably tried another PT2399.


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 22, 2021)

fig said:


> You've probably tried another PT2399.


Yeah, and this has been the case with every spirit box I’ve made. It’s not noticeable really on low gain stuff but on high gain it’s a bit of an annoyance.


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 22, 2021)

Robert said:


> Unless it's the switch itself causing the noise, using relay bypass _might_ not help, and in some cases could even make it worse.
> 
> A relay module that mutes the signal when switching could help but I've heard just as many complaints about the momentary dropout in signal as the switch pop it's trying to correct.   It just depends on which one bugs you more.   Some are probably better than others, and it likely depends on the circuit you're pairing it with.
> 
> A buffered bypass of some sort (Boss / vintage Ibanez style) would probably quieten it right down.  (ducks for cover)


Where would the buffer go in this case? In between the “IN” pad on the 3PDT wiring board and the actual PCB In so it’s before the circuit (like a Tube Screamer)?


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 25, 2021)

If I were to add a buffer to this circuit, where would I want to place it? Unfortunately, I can’t find anything in a search for where buffers should go.


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## Feral Feline (Jun 26, 2021)

If the input jack is poppin, buffer between bypass > main-circ; if the pop is happening down stream then sammich Buffy the Vampopper-slayer between the circ's out and the bypass. 

At least, that's how I'd attempt it.


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## finebyfine (Jun 26, 2021)

Danbieranowski said:


> If I were to add a buffer to this circuit, where would I want to place it? Unfortunately, I can’t find anything in a search for where buffers should go.



I personally would build a Simple JFET Buffer, and like @Feral Feline said, try it at the input of the circuit (Footswitch "IN" Pad -> Buffer "IN" Pad, Buffer "OUT" Pad -> PCB "IN" Pad) and at the output (PCB "Out" to Buffer "IN", Buffer "Out" to Footswitch "OUT" Pad), pray that it's better at the input, and if so just use a C-Buffer to keep the build tidier

Edit: fuck it, I'm trying to kill the pop on mine, I'll try it out myself

Edit 2: Jfet buffer in either place just makes the pop louder. I'll try a relay in it eventually but I won't have the parts for it for a month


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## music6000 (Jun 26, 2021)

Try *10K* on R7 - 100K


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 26, 2021)

finebyfine said:


> I personally would build a Simple JFET Buffer, and like @Feral Feline said, try it at the input of the circuit (Footswitch "IN" Pad -> Buffer "IN" Pad, Buffer "OUT" Pad -> PCB "IN" Pad) and at the output (PCB "Out" to Buffer "IN", Buffer "Out" to Footswitch "OUT" Pad), pray that it's better at the input, and if so just use a C-Buffer to keep the build tidier
> 
> Edit: fuck it, I'm trying to kill the pop on mine, I'll try it out myself
> 
> Edit 2: Jfet buffer in either place just makes the pop louder. I'll try a relay in it eventually but I won't have the parts for it for a month


Thank you for trying as well!


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 26, 2021)

music6000 said:


> Try *10K* on R7 - 100K


That’s what I put in there from a prior recommendation. :-/


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## Danbieranowski (Jun 26, 2021)

finebyfine said:


> I personally would build a Simple JFET Buffer, and like @Feral Feline said, try it at the input of the circuit (Footswitch "IN" Pad -> Buffer "IN" Pad, Buffer "OUT" Pad -> PCB "IN" Pad) and at the output (PCB "Out" to Buffer "IN", Buffer "Out" to Footswitch "OUT" Pad), pray that it's better at the input, and if so just use a C-Buffer to keep the build tidier
> 
> Edit: fuck it, I'm trying to kill the pop on mine, I'll try it out myself
> 
> Edit 2: Jfet buffer in either place just makes the pop louder. I'll try a relay in it eventually but I won't have the parts for it for a month


I ordered 2 full relay kits from Mas-Effects that say they will be here in about a week. They include an optocoupler muting option, so I’ll let you know how that goes.


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## zgrav (Jun 26, 2021)

I have had success using a soft-switch relay bypass to avoid a switch pop that seemed to be microphonic.


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## Feral Feline (Jun 26, 2021)

I came across an interesting circuit recently, might work here though it's intended for real-deal spring reverb...









						Ground switch with delay kit - moodysounds
					

This circuit is designed to work with the BJF Analog Reverb kit. It will make the Reverb effect come on gradually when the stomp switch is pressed. This will



					moodysounds.com
				




Good ol' Björn!


Spirit Box seems aptly named as there's a ghost in the machine... I've yet to build mine and don't like the spectre of popping haunting me til I finally do so.


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## finebyfine (Jun 26, 2021)

Feral Feline said:


> I came across an interesting circuit recently, might work here though it's intended for real-deal spring reverb...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You could do this w/ something like a 555 one shot and calculate a good resistance and capacitance to dial the time in, although j175s are easy to find. I can't read the handwriting on the schem but I imagine it's the same idea


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## Danbieranowski (Jul 14, 2021)

zgrav said:


> I have had success using a soft-switch relay bypass to avoid a switch pop that seemed to be microphonic.


I ended up doing this with a Mas Effects relay kit and it definitely helped the issue. Not perfect, but better!


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## Danbieranowski (Jul 14, 2021)

finebyfine said:


> I personally would build a Simple JFET Buffer, and like @Feral Feline said, try it at the input of the circuit (Footswitch "IN" Pad -> Buffer "IN" Pad, Buffer "OUT" Pad -> PCB "IN" Pad) and at the output (PCB "Out" to Buffer "IN", Buffer "Out" to Footswitch "OUT" Pad), pray that it's better at the input, and if so just use a C-Buffer to keep the build tidier
> 
> Edit: fuck it, I'm trying to kill the pop on mine, I'll try it out myself
> 
> Edit 2: Jfet buffer in either place just makes the pop louder. I'll try a relay in it eventually but I won't have the parts for it for a month


Ended up using a Mas Effects Relay Kit and that helped. Give that a shot.


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## ADAOCE (Jul 15, 2021)

Feral Feline said:


> I came across an interesting circuit recently, might work here though it's intended for real-deal spring reverb...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven’t replicated this issue (not denying it) you should definitely not avoid this pedal just due to this and try the relay that Dan ended up using. This pedal is kind of a one trick shot but it’s a good one


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## Danbieranowski (Jul 15, 2021)

ADAOCE said:


> I haven’t replicated this issue (not denying it) you should definitely not avoid this pedal just due to this and try the relay that Dan ended up using. This pedal is kind of a one trick shot but it’s a good one


Here's the link to that relay: https://shop.mas-effects.com/products/relay-bypass

For $15.50 you get everything needed for it, plus it's pre-programmed, so you just have to put it together and wire it up.


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