# Sandspur



## SYLV9ST9R (Aug 26, 2021)

Here's my take on the Sandspur.
Reading some of the threads around here, I was not too sure about what transistors to put in, but I put my new micro protoboard to use and measured me some hFE.
I settled with a 160 hFE 2N2222a in Q1 and a 300 hFE BC108B in Q2.
I'm still dialing in the Bias, but I do like the sound of it (albeit I don't have much experience Fuzz Face wise).

Went with the Egyptian Sun god Ra, who I think is worthy of being a Sun Face!


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## fig (Aug 26, 2021)

𒊑𒀀--ck on! (Cuneiform for Ra)

Great looking pedal!


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## SYLV9ST9R (Aug 26, 2021)

fig said:


> 𒊑𒀀--ck on! (Cuneiform for Ra)
> 
> Great looking pedal!


Thanks Tim! You're pretty quick on the reed stylus!
Next Fuzz Face will be on the breadboard


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## uranium_jones (Aug 26, 2021)

I built two of these - one with BC108 and one with BC109. I can hardly tell a difference. Haven't thought of mixing and matching transistors in the same circuit though. But if I put either in front of a little bit of clean boost, I'm playing straight out of Dark Side of the Moon.


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## SYLV9ST9R (Aug 26, 2021)

quality_jones said:


> I built two of these - one with BC108 and one with BC109. I can hardly tell a difference. Haven't thought of mixing and matching transistors in the same circuit though. But if I put either in front of a little bit of clean boost, I'm playing straight out of Dark Side of the Moon.


I tried it with 2 BC108 (pretty much same hFE) and I thought it sounded good, but like it a tad better with that pairing. I'll try what you're suggesting with the clean boost.


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## uranium_jones (Aug 26, 2021)

Of course, fuzz was maxed out. Volume was maybe 2 or 3 o'clock. Maybe I'll breadboard your version once my Microboard parts come in.


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## Flying (Aug 27, 2021)

I quite like my FuzzFace with BFY52 transistors, much lower gain than a BC108.
92 hFE Q1
106 hFE Q2
But I plan to put one together with BC182 transistors over the weekend, which I may prefer


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## SYLV9ST9R (Aug 27, 2021)

thewintersoldier said:


> My favorite transistors for a Si fuzz face are BC183. They tend to have a more whooly germanium quality than the brighter BC108/109. Great looking Build!


Thanks! I’ll try to cop some and try other options.


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## caiofilipini (Aug 27, 2021)

+1 for BC183!


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## Barry (Aug 28, 2021)

Looks Great


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## Kroars (Nov 29, 2021)

thewintersoldier said:


> My favorite transistors for a Si fuzz face are BC183. They tend to have a more whooly germanium quality than the brighter BC108/109. Great looking Build!



Think I’ll try some BC183’s tonight.  Any particular hfe for them? I wonder if a 2n3903 for Q1 and a 2n2369 for Q2 would sound nice.  So far I’ve only used the 108’s & 109’s.


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## spi (Nov 29, 2021)

I think I've said it some other thread, but I'll post it again:  After testing a few different combinations for my twin face, I landed on the lower gain combination of 2n2369 in Q1 and 2n2222 in Q2.    Less flubby than other combos I tried.


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## Preverb (Nov 30, 2021)

Is that one of the Tayda footswitches that says 1kg light pressure?  I was contemplating ordering a few gold ones.  Looks cool.


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## SYLV9ST9R (Nov 30, 2021)

Preverb said:


> Is that one of the Tayda footswitches that says 1kg light pressure?  I was contemplating ordering a few gold ones.  Looks cool.


Yes it is.
Sometimes, you got to have gold hardware. Here I thought it paired well with the Egyptian theme.


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## Preverb (Nov 30, 2021)

Which Fuzz is recommended for people that have never gelled with fuzz?


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## Bricksnbeatles (Nov 30, 2021)

Preverb said:


> Which Fuzz is recommended for people that have never gelled with fuzz?


Since fuzz can be such a broad category, may I ask which fuzzes you’ve tried and not gelled with, and was there something you specifically disliked about them (lack of attack, too smooth/coarse, feel, etc?) or was it just that there wasn’t anything that’s ever wowed you about the fuzzes you’ve tried?


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## Preverb (Nov 30, 2021)

Bricksnbeatles said:


> Since fuzz can be such a broad category, may I ask which fuzzes you’ve tried and not gelled with, and was there something you specifically disliked about them (lack of attack, too smooth/coarse, feel, etc?) or was it just that there wasn’t anything that’s ever wowed you about the fuzzes you’ve tried?


I had one of those old Green muffs back in the early 2000s but it just seemed too muddy.  I've tried a few silicon cheapo fuzzes and didn't like any of them.  When I had a Helix, I didn't like any of the models in there.  (But I think modellers don't do fuzz well).  I like the tones that Scott Mckeon gets out of his signature pedal.  The Benson fuzz and other germanium fuzzes seem to sound pretty good in demos but half the time I don't know if that is because some of those professional demo guys can make anything sound good.  So I think I am leaning towards a germanium style fuzz that can clean up and get nasty too.  I think the servo based fuzz that was described here a few weeks back sounds like it would be good.  I will probably wait for it to come out as a PCB since I have so many projects that I will likely not have time for them.


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## Big Monk (Nov 30, 2021)

Preverb said:


> I had one of those old Green muffs back in the early 2000s but it just seemed too muddy.  I've tried a few silicon cheapo fuzzes and didn't like any of them.  When I had a Helix, I didn't like any of the models in there.  (But I think modellers don't do fuzz well).  I like the tones that Scott Mckeon gets out of his signature pedal.  The Benson fuzz and other germanium fuzzes seem to sound pretty good in demos but half the time I don't know if that is because some of those professional demo guys can make anything sound good.  So I think I am leaning towards a germanium style fuzz that can clean up and get nasty too.  I think the servo based fuzz that was described here a few weeks back sounds like it would be good.  I will probably wait for it to come out as a PCB since I have so many projects that I will likely not have time for them.



I've always compare "Fuzz" to "Belgian" beer. 

I homebrewed for a few years and in particular was (and am) a fan of brewing Belgian style beers. People in the brewing communities use "Belgian" as a blanket term but there is a lot of variation. The Trappists, Macro Lager, Abbey, Pale Ales, Flemish Sours, etc.

Fuzz is the same way. You have your Octave fuzzes, Fuzz "freakout" fuzzes (thinking early garage-y types), More Refined fuzzes (MK II, Fuzz Face), etc. 

What guitars do you play? That's always affected my choice in how i tune them as well.


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## Preverb (Nov 30, 2021)

Big Monk said:


> I've always compare "Fuzz" to "Belgian" beer.
> 
> I homebrewed for a few years and in particular was (and am) a fan of brewing Belgian style beers. People in the brewing communities use "Belgian" as a blanket term but there is a lot of variation. The Trappists, Macro Lager, Abbey, Pale Ales, Flemish Sours, etc.
> 
> ...


I have a few LP style guitars, 1 strat and 1 335.  Maybe I should try a sandspur while waiting for the servo pcb.  Octave would be cool if you could have zero and then dial it in with a potentiometer.


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## Big Monk (Nov 30, 2021)

Preverb said:


> I have a few LP style guitars, 1 strat and 1 335.  Maybe I should try a sandspur while waiting for the servo pcb.  Octave would be cool if you could have zero and then dial it in with a potentiometer.



It seems like you mostly have Humbucker equipped guitars. I'm thinking a Sandspur with some lower(ish) gain transistors and tweaked Input and Emitter caps would probably suit you well. Also, a Silicon or Germanium MK II would work well for you as well if you tune it for Humbuckers.


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## Preverb (Nov 30, 2021)

Big Monk said:


> It seems like you mostly have Humbucker equipped guitars. I'm thinking a Sandspur with some lower(ish) gain transistors and tweaked Input and Emitter caps would probably suit you well. Also, a Silicon or Germanium MK II would work well for you as well if you tune it for Humbuckers.


Yeah, mostly HBs.  One LP has P90s but it is in a closet in my mother's house in Canada.  I actually only have an LP and a strat here.  The 335 is still in a warehouse in Japan and the other 2 guitars are in Canada.  There is an Aussie pickup winder that makes a "Big Bird" HB firebird pickup that I plan to try in the LP neck.  I haven't been playing much at all though.  I sold my Helix and have been waiting for a Quilter Super Block to arrive for over 3 months now.

How would you tweak the input and emitter caps?  Which low gain transistors are recommended?  (I noticed a few suggestions earlier in this thread...)


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## Big Monk (Nov 30, 2021)

Preverb said:


> Yeah, mostly HBs.  One LP has P90s but it is in a closet in my mother's house in Canada.  I actually only have an LP and a strat here.  The 335 is still in a warehouse in Japan and the other 2 guitars are in Canada.  There is an Aussie pickup winder that makes a "Big Bird" HB firebird pickup that I plan to try in the LP neck.  I haven't been playing much at all though.  I sold my Helix and have been waiting for a Quilter Super Block to arrive for over 3 months now.
> 
> How would you tweak the input and emitter caps?  Which low gain transistors are recommended?  (I noticed a few suggestions earlier in this thread...)



I think most people go with like 260/400 hFE, Q1 and Q2 respectively, for the standard high gain Si Fuzz Face. 

You may be better served in the combo of 120/200. 

As far as the caps, it's best to breadboard the circuit and tweak those "live" so you can hear the results of swapping them. As a humbucker guy, i've routinely tweaked the input cap down from 2.2 uf in the stock Fuzz Face to anywhere between 0.22 uf-1 uf. I try to change the emitter cap only if I need to on a Fuzz Face and you can go down to 10 uf-15 uf if need be.


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## Kroars (Nov 30, 2021)

thewintersoldier said:


> With silicon I find that the gain range isn't as critical as it is with germanium. It's more about the relationship in gain between the two. All my bc183s were between 200-400hfe and as long as you have the lower gain in Q1 you should be pretty good. Experimenting is highly encouraged.


I’ve heard that before but wasn’t sure how true it was.  Thanks for clarifying!!


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## Coda (Nov 30, 2021)

I built one recently with BC109C’s. It’s perfect, and serves single coils and humbuckers alike, no tweaks needed.


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