# Six String Stinger - missing output and too dark



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

Hello,

I have an issue with my Six String Stinger build. I have already searched in the forum and see that there are others who have the same issue. When I compare with the original one, output is missing, when I dimmed volume and gain it is still less than original volume and gain 12 o'clock. It is too dark, too much bass even filter is all the way up. Could you please help me to solve the issue? By the way C12 is 22nf in my build as it is the correct value.

Q values:


*Q*​*D*​*S*​*G*​Q1​8.86v​5.01v​4.06v​Q2​5.01v​0.46v​0v​Q3​8.86v​4.90v​4.06v​Q4​4.90v​0.55v​0v​


Cheers


----------



## music6000 (Feb 12, 2022)

Are you sure you used *B100K* for Volume & Filter.
Mine is Unity with Volume at 9.00 O'Clock  *<-- *with Gain at 12.00 O'Clock *^*???


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Are you sure you used B100K for Volume & Filter.
> Mine is Unity at 9.00 O'Clock  *<-- *with Gain at 12.00 O'Clock *^*???


Yes I am sure. My unity gain with strat is volume 12.30, gain 12.00, filter 5.00 o 'clock to have same eq.


----------



## music6000 (Feb 12, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> Yes I am sure. My unity gain with strat is volume 12.30, gain 12.00, filter 5.00 o 'clock to have same eq.


Mine with a Tele!
What brand of SMD J201's did you get & from who, were they pre soldered to the adapter board???


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Mine with a Tele!
> What brand of SMD J201's did you get & from who, were they pre soldered to the adapter board???


I got them from musikding which were presoldered to the adapter board probably they were MMBFJ201s.


----------



## music6000 (Feb 12, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> I got them from musikding which were presoldered to the adapter board probably they were MMBFJ201s.


That is the big question, what did you get???
If my volume is at 12.00, I would have all the neighbours belting down my door!!!!
I used Vishay J201 TO-92 in mine.


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

Unfortunately I don't have further information about smds. How can I check them if they are ok or not?


----------



## music6000 (Feb 12, 2022)

With a transistor checker, There cheap & quite a few Members here use them


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

Do I need to pull out before testing or is it ok to test them soldered? I think it is very difficult to desolder them from the pcb.


----------



## music6000 (Feb 12, 2022)

They have to be tested out of the circuit, you will have to try and remove them from the S S S PCB with solder wick braid.
If that fails, Cut pins & desolder individual, Do just 1 to start with & see if that meets j201 specs
Chuck D, Bones has a tutorial on J201 testing to se if they are in spec!


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

music6000 said:


> They have to be tested out of the circuit, you will have to try and remove them from the S S S PCB with solder wick braid.
> If that fails, Cut pins & desolder individual, Do just 1 to start with & see if that meets j201 specs
> Chuck D, Bones has a tutorial on J201 testing to se if they are in spec!


Thanks for the information. This is the first time I have an issue of smd J201s from musikding. Before removing them with the help of audio probe, is it possible to detect which transistor(s) is faulty if we assume that those are MMBFJ201s? What do we expect to hear from each transistor's output?


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

So when I use the audio probe, with volume 9, gain 12 o'clock there is more than unity gain volume on the positive side of C10 but somehow the output is low than unity gain from the output. By the way I hear more than unity gain from output of the transistors.


----------



## music6000 (Feb 12, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> So when I use the audio probe, with volume 9, gain 12 o'clock there is more than unity gain volume on the positive side of C10 but somehow the output is low than unity gain from the output. By the way I hear more than unity gain from output of the transistors.


Just woke up!
This is why I asked about the *B100K* pots at the start of this discussion as you have a Volume issue & Filter issue????
Where is the unity gain at C11 & R15???


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 13, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Just woke up!
> This is why I asked about the *B100K* pots at the start of this discussion as you have a Volume issue & Filter issue????
> Where is the unity gain at C11 & R15???


Below is the photo that shows I use B100Ks both for Volume and filter.

I have almost same volume between R15 and C12 when I compare after C10 but very less volume between C11 and R16. As volume part is at the end of the circuit, I cannot say there is a huge volume differences from the unity gain to reach all the neighbors.


----------



## music6000 (Feb 13, 2022)

Is the Volume the same at the *- *Pad of C10, R15 & C11 junction as the *+ *pad of C10????


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 13, 2022)

It is the same volume between the - pad of C10 and + pad of C10. Could be the problem that transistors somehow couldn't amplify the signal enough?


----------



## music6000 (Feb 13, 2022)

Are you saying that up to R15 side of* Filter* pot, you have louder audio than after *Filter* pot
If yes, you need to remove & test 100K* Filter* pot to rule out being faulty???


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 13, 2022)

Here is the status, "More than unity gain" means if the unity is 1, it is 2.5 on 10 as a volume.


----------



## music6000 (Feb 13, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> Here is the status, "More than unity gain" means if the unity is 1, it is 2.5 on 10 as a volume.
> 
> View attachment 23009


Cool, What about Leg 3 of *VOLUME *Pot???


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 13, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Cool, What about Leg 3 of *VOLUME *Pot???


It seems like unity volume, more gain, more bass but way less volume than after R15 junction.


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

Hello,

I have an issue with my Six String Stinger build. I have already searched in the forum and see that there are others who have the same issue. When I compare with the original one, output is missing, when I dimmed volume and gain it is still less than original volume and gain 12 o'clock. It is too dark, too much bass even filter is all the way up. Could you please help me to solve the issue? By the way C12 is 22nf in my build as it is the correct value.

Q values:


*Q*​*D*​*S*​*G*​Q1​8.86v​5.01v​4.06v​Q2​5.01v​0.46v​0v​Q3​8.86v​4.90v​4.06v​Q4​4.90v​0.55v​0v​


Cheers


----------



## music6000 (Feb 14, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> It seems like unity volume, more gain, more bass but way less volume than after R15 junction.


I measure every Resistor & Capacitor with a DMM before fitting, also Diodes!!!
Can you remove C11 - 2n2 400, that seems to be a problem area and measure for capacitance.
If that is bad, you will have to change the other 2n2 400 also!

R16 seems to be an issue as well but do the Cap first!!!


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 14, 2022)

music6000 said:


> I measure every Resistor & Capacitor with a DMM before fitting, also Diodes!!!
> Can you remove C11 - 2n2 400, that seems to be a problem area and measure for capacitance.
> If that is bad, you will have to change the other 2n2 400 also!
> 
> R16 seems to be an issue as well but do the Cap first!!!



I will do and write the result here but the bad news is I don't have any 2n2s to replace in case they are not working.


----------



## ntuncer (Mar 14, 2022)

music6000 said:


> I measure every Resistor & Capacitor with a DMM before fitting, also Diodes!!!
> Can you remove C11 - 2n2 400, that seems to be a problem area and measure for capacitance.
> If that is bad, you will have to change the other 2n2 400 also!
> 
> R16 seems to be an issue as well but do the Cap first!!!


Hi, finally I received the new caps and removed the C11. I read 2.45nf with my DDM. It seems fine right?


----------



## music6000 (Mar 15, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> Hi, finally I received the new caps and removed the C11. I read 2.45nf with my DDM. It seems fine right?


Did you measure R16-22K before putting it in?
The colour bands are correct but I don't know!


----------



## ntuncer (Mar 15, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Did you measure R16-22K before putting it in?
> The colour bands are correct but I don't know!


Normally I measure all the resistors before putting but I can remove if it is necessary.


----------



## music6000 (Mar 15, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> Normally I measure all the resistors before putting but I can remove if it is necessary.


What does it measure in the PCB???


----------



## ntuncer (Mar 15, 2022)

music6000 said:


> What does it measure in the PCB???


19.25K


----------



## music6000 (Mar 15, 2022)

Turn the *Filte*r knob fully CCW and measure , should be around 19.5K?
Turn fully Clockwise, should be around 18.75K?
If it's within this range, it is working as it should.
Did you swap out the 2n2 for the replacement?


----------



## ntuncer (Mar 15, 2022)

music6000 said:


> Turn the *Filte*r knob fully CCW and measure , should be around 19.5K?
> Turn fully Clockwise, should be around 18.75K?
> If it's within this range, it is working as it should.
> Did you swap out the 2n2 for the replacement?


I read R-16 with Filter knob all the way down 19.94K, all the way up 18.37K.


----------



## music6000 (Mar 15, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> I read R-16 with Filter knob all the way down 19.94K, all the way up 18.37K.


It's working as expected, slight difference in Pot resistance!


----------



## ntuncer (Mar 15, 2022)

I really couldn't understand what is the problem... Could it be j201s? If yes how can I test them with audio probe?


----------



## ntuncer (Mar 22, 2022)

I am giving up... I think we did everything. Thanks a lot for your help and your time @music6000


----------



## ntuncer (Apr 20, 2022)

Hello again @music6000, I couldn't resist and built from scratch a new one but this time I use pedalpcb j201s (smd already soldered ones) and measured everything before starting but I have the same result. I am pretty sure with my build now but there is something really odd. When I checked other schematics, I saw that C11 is always 22n so I swapped it, now filter is more usable no more darkness but I couldn't find at all why I don't have the output. Should I reduce R14 to increase the volume?


----------



## jesuscrisp (Apr 20, 2022)

Mind telling what your test setup is and what parts you reused for the new build?


----------



## ntuncer (Apr 20, 2022)

jesuscrisp said:


> Mind telling what your test setup is and what parts you reused for the new build?


Everything is new, totally new build. I tested everything before mounting diode is included. Everything is measured and correct values. If I reduce  R8 and R14 to 5k, I have unity gain volume at 9, gain at 12 o'clock. C12 has to be 22n but what about C11 value? should it be 2n2 or 22n? Any idea?


----------



## music6000 (Apr 20, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> Everything is new, totally new build. I tested everything before mounting diode is included. Everything is measured and correct values. If I reduce  R8 and R14 to 5k, I have unity gain volume at 9, gain at 12 o'clock. C12 has to be 22n but what about C11 value? should it be 2n2 or 22n? Any idea?


This is what Values should be:



If you are having a Volume issue it must be a Resistor value is Incorrect or the Pot is wrong or Defective!
One coloured stripe is all it takes to go from 1ohm to 10M, 22ohm to 2M2, 47ohm to 4M7!
10K = Brown, Black, Black, *Red*, Brown
1M = Brown, Black Black, *Yellow*, Brown
22k = Red, Red, Black, *Red*, Brown
2M2 = Red, Red, Black, *Yellow*, Brown


----------



## ntuncer (Apr 21, 2022)

music6000 said:


> This is what Values should be:
> View attachment 25511
> If you are having a Volume issue it must be a Resistor value is Incorrect or the Pot is wrong or Defective!
> One coloured stripe is all it takes to go from 1ohm to 10M, 22ohm to 2M2, 47ohm to 4M7!
> ...


For all the components , resistors, pots I have already measured with DMM and this time I am pretty sure that they are fine. I used directly pcb values but I am not sure about C11 2n2 value. It makes the sound too dark and other schematics including the old pedalpcb version, C11 value is 22n.


----------



## jesuscrisp (Apr 21, 2022)

Look, we're trying to help and it would be good to figure out what are the constants and variables with the pedal not working. Have you also replace all the jacks, switch etc? 

And please, what are you playing through? I personally use modelling software most of the time and the true volume of some pedals sometimes doesn't reflect what you get through an actual amp for example.


----------



## ntuncer (Apr 21, 2022)

jesuscrisp said:


> Look, we're trying to help and it would be good to figure out what are the constants and variables with the pedal not working. Have you also replace all the jacks, switch etc?
> 
> And please, what are you playing through? I personally use modelling software most of the time and the true volume of some pedals sometimes doesn't reflect what you get through an actual amp for example.


Thanks for having time to help me and tried to understand the situation. I am really glad for that and if I am understood differently sorry about it.
I really built it from scratch. all the parts and components are new, jacks switches etc. As @music6000 mentioned before as a good practice, I measured this time everything with DMM to be sure that it is fine and also I used pedapcb j201s to make sure that they are good quality ones.

For the testing, I use real amp with a speaker cab and audio probe to understand what is wrong. My benchmark is to have unity gain between input and output of the pedal with volume at 9 , gain at 12 o'clock as a reference of @music6000. After finishing the new build, I observe that there is a low output and it is also too dark like my first build. Then I did the whole measurements which are mentioned as troubleshooting and I find that all of the values are almost same. For the darkness, I swapped the C11 2n2 to 22n and now Treble pot is working more logically. For the lack of volume, I just reduce R8 and R14 to 5k (10k resistors soldered in parallel) to solve and now I have a unity gain with volume at 9 , gain at 12 o'clock.


----------



## music6000 (Apr 21, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> Thanks for having time to help me and tried to understand the situation. I am really glad for that and if I am understood differently sorry about it.
> I really built it from scratch. all the parts and components are new, jacks switches etc. As @music6000 mentioned before as a good practice, I measured this time everything with DMM to be sure that it is fine and also I used pedapcb j201s to make sure that they are good quality ones.
> 
> For the testing, I use real amp with a speaker cab and audio probe to understand what is wrong. My benchmark is to have unity gain between input and output of the pedal with volume at 9 , gain at 12 o'clock as a reference of @music6000. After finishing the new build, I observe that there is a low output and it is also too dark like my first build. Then I did the whole measurements which are mentioned as troubleshooting and I find that all of the values are almost same. For the darkness, I swapped the C11 2n2 to 22n and now Treble pot is working more logically. For the lack of volume, I just reduce R8 and R14 to 5k (10k resistors soldered in parallel) to solve and now I have a unity gain with volume at 9 , gain at 12 o'clock.


On your First build, you said that with Volume & Gain at maximum was less than Unity.
My Reply was that mine was at Unity which means when pedal is On or ByPassed, Volume at 9.00 & Gain at 12.00 O'clock.
That is with all the Resistors & Caps as written on the PCB.
If you have built this Second pedal, Did you have the same Volume issue, Something is not adding up.
As I have requested before ''Pictures Are Worth A Thousand Words''
Post Pictures of PCB with good photo of the Resistors & Capacitors, Footswitch & Input, Output Jacks!


----------



## ntuncer (Feb 12, 2022)

Hello,

I have an issue with my Six String Stinger build. I have already searched in the forum and see that there are others who have the same issue. When I compare with the original one, output is missing, when I dimmed volume and gain it is still less than original volume and gain 12 o'clock. It is too dark, too much bass even filter is all the way up. Could you please help me to solve the issue? By the way C12 is 22nf in my build as it is the correct value.

Q values:


*Q*​*D*​*S*​*G*​Q1​8.86v​5.01v​4.06v​Q2​5.01v​0.46v​0v​Q3​8.86v​4.90v​4.06v​Q4​4.90v​0.55v​0v​


Cheers


----------



## ntuncer (Apr 21, 2022)

music6000 said:


> On your First build, you said that with Volume & Gain at maximum was less than Unity.
> My Reply was that mine was at Unity which means when pedal is On or ByPassed, Volume at 9.00 & Gain at 12.00 O'clock.
> That is with all the Resistors & Caps as written on the PCB.
> If you have built this Second pedal, Did you have the same Volume issue, Something is not adding up.
> ...


Yes I have the same volume issue as the first build with the caps and resistor values on the pcb. I will add the new build photos asap when I back home.


----------



## music6000 (Apr 21, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> For all the components , resistors, pots I have already measured with DMM and this time I am pretty sure that they are fine. I used directly pcb values but I am not sure about C11 2n2 value. It makes the sound too dark and other schematics including the old pedalpcb version, C11 value is 22n.


other schematics including the old pedalpcb version, C11 value is 22n.
If you look at those same schematics, you will see C12 is 2n2 ????


----------



## ntuncer (Apr 21, 2022)

music6000 said:


> other schematics including the old pedalpcb version, C11 value is 22n.
> If you look at those same schematics, you will see C12 is 2n2 ????


Yes C11 is 22n and C12 is 2n2. When I searched in the forum there is an explication of C12 value which has to be 22n but couldn't find something about C11. When I swapped C11 to 22n, I have a more logical Tone control range which sound seems same as original according to the demo videos I listened on YouTube. At least solve the darkness issue.


----------



## ntuncer (Apr 21, 2022)

Here are the photos of new build. Here C11 is 22n, R8 and R14 are 5k (10k diodes soldered parallel under the pcb) and old schematic which C11 is 22n:


----------



## claudio (Jun 4, 2022)

I also just finished building this pedal after buying the kit from musikding, and I have exactly the same problem. I'm basically playing with all pots maxed out in order to have enough output and not too dark. I'll try to swap C11 to 22n and R8 and R14 to 5k.


----------



## claudio (Jun 4, 2022)

ntuncer said:


> Here are the photos of new build. Here C11 is 22n, R8 and R14 are 5k (10k diodes soldered parallel under the pcb) and old schematic which C11 is 22n:
> View attachment 25537


How do you find C11 R8 and R14 on the board?


----------



## Feral Feline (Jun 5, 2022)

@claudio, It's in the build document on the PCB-purchase page of the circuit.





Then cross reference the above build-doc with the purchase-page's pic/and/or PCB itself:


----------



## claudio (Jun 7, 2022)

Feral Feline said:


> @claudio, It's in the build document on the PCB-purchase page of the circuit.
> View attachment 27137
> 
> 
> Then cross reference the above build-doc with the purchase-page's pic/and/or PCB itself:


Thanks, that's interesting.

When I look at the manual, I also see Parts list and 





C12 is actually tagged as 22n, whereas on the board layout is tagged as 2n2.


----------



## Feral Feline (Jun 8, 2022)

Usually the board is correct, but I'd just socket it and try both then solder in the one I prefer, or if there's enough of a difference and both are good, I'll throw 'em on a switch.


----------

