# Hylian Fuzz : issues with "control”



## visualdistortion (Jan 22, 2020)

Hi, I did the Hylian Fuzz, all is wired correctly, not a lot of components, volume is HUGE but the control pot do litterally nothing on sound, or maybe a bit at one of the extreme. Anyone got the same issues? Thanks


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## Betty Wont (Jan 22, 2020)

visualdistortion said:


> Hi, I did the Hylian Fuzz, all is wired correctly, not a lot of components, volume is HUGE but the control pot do litterally nothing on sound, or maybe a bit at one of the extreme. Anyone got the same issues? Thanks


The control knob should go from gated and farty ccw to wide open pulse wave type sound fully cw. I've tried to build a couple of these and couldn't get them to work like the originals. same type of issue you are having. I used to build these on contract for the company and we used generic parts and got the correct result every time.


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## Chuck D. Bones (Jan 22, 2020)

Torgoslayer,
Have you tried comparing the original build dwgs with the pedalPCB build docs?  When you were building these under contract, did Devi Ever supply the transistors?  Is it possible they were selected for hfe or something else before you got them?  This is a crazy circuit and may be very dependent on transistor parameters.

One more thing, this circuit is very dependent on where it is located in the pedal chain.  Make sure you are driving it directly from your guitar (and you have passive pickups) and not from another pedal.


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## Betty Wont (Jan 22, 2020)

The pedalpcb version is missing a 100nf cap, and a 10k resistor from what I remember. and there was no reverse polarity diode or power filtering. The Bit was made up from two separate pcbs, the first a simple boost (33) , and the second a dark fuzz (GZ). The control pot came off of the the input of the GZ, and the volume was at the input of the 33. We got transistors from mouser, and never tested them. These are very tolerant of gains.


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## Robert (Jan 23, 2020)

Going by these pics the schematic appears to be correct... the only difference I see here is that the output cap of the first stage and input cap of the second stage are both intact.  This could be replicated by changing C2 to 47nF.   

This would have to be the "missing" 100nF...   The resistor count seems to be correct. 

Aside from that, the remaining circuit structure seems to be correct.   Control is connected to input of first stage, volume is just a master volume from the output of the last stage.


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## Betty Wont (Jan 23, 2020)

Robert said:


> Now I'm curious about how accurate the schematics going around actually are...
> 
> The PDF released by Devi (where I suspect these schematic originated) specify that the LoF was a Silver Crank > GZ, but like you mention, it doesn't specifically say which controls are in use on each of the two circuits.... so was this just "assumed" on the existing schematics?
> 
> ...


the Silver Crank is the same circuit as the 33. just a name change. Devi didn't know how to read or write schematics back then and I know that a huge packet of schematics and design elements was compiled and shared by her forum members, but most were attempts at using design logic (which devi had none) to figure out how to wire them up. They were all direct wired etched pcbs that were wrapped up in electrical tape and left flying in the box. There were no BOM or schematics to work off of, just a simple hand drawn diagram that showed where the wires attached. I remember it being a very strange configuration. The Hyperion and Ruiner were made from two cascading circuits wired the same way as well. The JHS Astro Mess was copied from incorrect online data about the Hyperion. Googling Bit schematics gives like 5 different interpretations, some with the extra 100nf/10k, some without. I wish I still had my notes on this one.


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## visualdistortion (Jan 23, 2020)

Maybe I can take a video and show you what my build does. Bit it's not a really complicated build, not a lot of components, apart the fact that a transistor can be bad maybe? I don't know the issue here. Mine seems to be always in gate mode and I need to strum strings hard to get sound, on the control pot, I don't have sound to 0 to 2, after to 2 to 6 it's like little fart (need to really strum strings hard), 6 to 10 seems more traditional (but always need to strum it strong).


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## alexcmyk (Feb 7, 2020)

Same here. What you're describing sounds exactly what mine was doing as well. No sound for part of the sweep and then little sound up till the pot is maxed out. Then I have to strum very hard or place a boost before it to get any sound of "good" sound.


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## visualdistortion (Feb 7, 2020)

alexcmyk said:


> Same here. What you're describing sounds exactly what mine was doing as well. No sound for part of the sweep and then little sound up till the pot is maxed out. Then I have to strum very hard or place a boost before it to get any sound of "good" sound.


I did some test again on my real amp, and yes it's like that, so I think that something is faulty here


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## Robert (Feb 7, 2020)

Anyone want to try an experiment?

Remove the 2N2907A and install it backwards (so the metal tab on the transistor does not line up with the tab on the silkscreen).


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## visualdistortion (Feb 7, 2020)

Robert said:


> Anyone want to try an experiment?
> 
> Remove the 2N2907A and install it backwards (so the metal tab on the transistor does not line up with the tab on the silkscreen).


like a 180 degrees?


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## Robert (Feb 7, 2020)

Yep, just turn it around so the metal tab is on the other side.   Pin 2 stays in the middle.


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## alexcmyk (Feb 7, 2020)

Im down. Ill try it here in a few and report back. Unless @visualdistortion beats me to it.


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## visualdistortion (Feb 7, 2020)

alexcmyk said:


> Im down. Ill try it here in a few and report back. Unless @visualdistortion beats me to it.



I juste tried, so 0 to 2 NO sound, 2 to 6 gated fuzz (need to strum hard), 6 to 10 better fuzz. I don't know if it's like the original.


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## visualdistortion (Feb 7, 2020)

Hum finally after testing more, IT'S REALLY GATED, like pratically unusable under 8 and no so sound between 0 and 3.5 (and after really need to strum like an idiot. Better than the other way, for the transistor, but something it's wrong


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## alexcmyk (Feb 7, 2020)

My 2 cents for what it's worth. Flipped 2N2907A and its def a more usable pedal for me. I would say 7-10 o-clock almost nothing. 10-11 o'clock is pretty gated with 11 being the "video game" type tones you'd expect from this pedal. 11 - 5/5:30 o clock gnarly fuzz tones and very loud! I had it at 9 o'clock and I almost killed my dog though my twin reverb. For what it's worth too I'm playing through an SG with humbuckers so I imagine if @visualdistortion is doing single coils he'd had different results.


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## Robert (Feb 7, 2020)

Okay, well, was worth a shot.    I do believe this is now the correct transistor orientation, but back to the drawing board....

I'm going to have to build one of these so I can monkey around with it a little and see what's going on.


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## visualdistortion (Feb 7, 2020)

alexcmyk said:


> My 2 cents for what it's worth. Flipped 2N2907A and its def a more usable pedal for me. I would say 7-10 o-clock almost nothing. 10-11 o'clock is pretty gated with 11 being the "video game" type tones you'd expect from this pedal. 11 - 5/5:30 o clock gnarly fuzz tones and very loud! I had it at 9 o'clock and I almost killed my dog though my twin reverb. For what it's worth too I'm playing through an SG with humbuckers so I imagine if @visualdistortion is doing single coils he'd had different results.


 I use Les Paul with sh4 pickup, I really tested and looked some videos and a lot of people have sound on the ”1” position and have sustain, I really don't have sustain on it. I did a video, I will upload in few hours


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## Robert (Feb 7, 2020)

I'm trying to hunt down some MPSA18's right now, I have everything else to build one...

I'll substitute them if I have no other choice, but would rather not.


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## alexcmyk (Feb 7, 2020)

visualdistortion said:


> I use Les Paul with sh4 pickup, I really tested and looked some videos and a lot of people have sound on the ”1” position and have sustain, I really don't have sustain on it. I did a video, I will upload in few hours



Ya, I agree. In vids I've seen, there def is a pretty strong signal in the lower settings on the control knob, which I'm not getting either, but flipping the transistor @PedalPCB helped for me! I don't have to stum like an idiot anymore to get a signal. @PedalPCB let us know what you find out.  Thanks for the help.


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## visualdistortion (Jan 22, 2020)

Hi, I did the Hylian Fuzz, all is wired correctly, not a lot of components, volume is HUGE but the control pot do litterally nothing on sound, or maybe a bit at one of the extreme. Anyone got the same issues? Thanks


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## visualdistortion (Feb 7, 2020)

My video
Video link


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## alexcmyk (Feb 7, 2020)

Pretty much the same thing with mine.


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## Robert (Feb 7, 2020)

I have an original on the way.


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## visualdistortion (Feb 8, 2020)

Robert said:


> I have an original on the way.


Hope to get news from you soon, I will love to make it work and put on my board


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## Robert (Feb 13, 2020)

The Legend of Fuzz arrived today.    This is the newer version with gold powdercoat and far superior build quality.

Just wrapped up the trace, so here we go.

There a few minor differences in this particular version of the pedal;

1) Both pots are A100K
2) The Control pot is wired backwards compared to the older version
3) As you can see in the pic below, the 2N2222A is a TO-92 plastic transistor instead of TO-18 metal can.

Everything else is identical to the Hylian Fuzz.   

Using an audio taper pot wired backwards is similar to using a reverse log taper so it reduces the dead spot when turning the Control pot all the way down (or Up in this particular pedal).... the original does go almost completely gated.    

The pedal sounds and behaves basically the same as my Hylian Fuzz build...  which if I'm being honest, is just not very good.... but to each their own.

*So to recap, here are the changes I'd recommend:*

1) Install the 2N2907A backwards (the silkscreen on the PCB is incorrect)
2) Use a C100K pot for Control (equivalent to A100K wired backwards)
3) Use an A100K pot for Volume

I tried the circuit with and without the reverse polarity protection diode and filter cap, there was no audible difference either way.

I pulled all of the transistors and checked the hfe for those who might want to know.

Q1 - 795
Q2 - 205
Q3 - 821
Q4 - 805
Q5 - 798
Q6 - 128

Aside from that, I'm afraid that really is just how this thing behaves.


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## alexcmyk (Feb 14, 2020)

@PedalPCB Thanks for the report back! Ill give the changes a try.


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## visualdistortion (Feb 15, 2020)

Robert said:


> The pedal sounds and behaves basically the same as my Hylian Fuzz build... which if I'm being honest, is just not very good.... but to each their own.



So the original one sounds like dead farts too ?


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## Robert (Feb 15, 2020)

LOL!   It does seem to be _very _picky about transistors... I tried a few (and even swapped the same ones around into different positions) and it sounded different every time.

The reverse wired A100K pot (or C100K in the Hylian PCB) will reduce the area at the low end of the pot sweep where there is little to no sound.


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## Mentaltossflycoon (Jun 2, 2021)

As a long time devi fan boy, I needed to say that you kind of work with the quirks with these things.   Yeah it's not versatile but when I put my p bass through a meatbox or hogsfoot before this it has a unique gated rip that I enjoy quite a bit and you can actual turn the control knob down and not completely kill the signal.   Not a permanent fixture on my board but if you hit this thing hard enough it is glorious.  

I've had a genuine effector 13 sodameiser w chaos and boost on my board since 2008, also built a second one with a transistor flipping switch to make it a vintage fuzz master on the fly.   Highly recommend. That one was a fuzzdog board. 

Not a bad idea actually, you could make a sodameiser/vintage fuzz master board with the transistor flip built in.

Her oscillating fuzzes are also great, I made an improbability drive from FD and made some kalimbas with an octaver and a pedal pcb hyperion 2 hidden inside.   Super fun.


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