# Sugarbag project issues?



## mediocore (Feb 26, 2021)

Hello! Has anyone else built the Sugarbag project? I looked around a bit on the forum and didn't see any chatter regarding it. I am curious how this one worked out for anyone else. I'm getting hardly any real gain from it unless the gain is turned about 80% up. Even then sometimes I'm noticing strange sag. Almost like when you hit a strong compressor really hard and it takes a moment to rebound. It can do some kind of interesting tones but it's a far cry from the range of sounds I've heard in the demos of the Fat Bee.
I sourced the ICs and transistors from Smallbear so I have faith they are of good quality. I was going to double check some of my part values but since the build docs are not posted and the board is soldered together that makes verifying all the values tricky.
Anything unique to watch for with this build? Any part changes or "gotcha" moments to watch out for?


----------



## zgrav (Feb 26, 2021)

I built it and it works great.  Lots of gain and some good sounds.  Only issue I have is a bit of crackle when I engage the pedal, but I know I have a transistor that is a bit loose in a socket that should clean that up when I get around to it.

Make sure all your parts are the right value, make sure you have good soldered connections on the board and at the wires.  if none of that gets it going for you, post some clear pictures of each side of the board and folks will try to assist.


----------



## zgrav (Feb 27, 2021)

make sure you have something to insulate the middle pot from coming into contact with the pcb.  you also should insulate the top row of pots from touching your input and output jacks (that is probably not tied to your "not enough gain" issue, but I would still check the other side of the board closely around the gain pot).  small pieces of plastic or thin cardboard usually work better than electrical tape as insulators, since spiky wire points easily push through the tape to contact the metal pot cases.

you need to pull the board from the enclosure to examine the soldering points on the other side (and take pictures of them to post).  also make sure to trim the wire that comes through the pcb after it is soldered to reduce the chances it may be shorting against something else.

unfortunately, without the build doc to compare to the board, it is hard to confirm if you have the right value parts, and the parts cover up the information on the PCB itself.  I realized that when I started putting the parts on the board, and took a picture that shows most of the values that I am attaching in case it helps you double check what you used.


----------



## zgrav (Feb 27, 2021)

no reason to start over after you confirm part values.  where did you source your transistors?


----------



## Teddeeh (Mar 5, 2021)

i too am having issues. but i will look and check when i have time.


----------



## music6000 (Mar 5, 2021)

Can you confirm that these are correct :
Can you confirm the resistor band colours in White highlited Box?
Chect to see if Pot values are in correct positions & Transistors.


----------



## Kroars (May 18, 2021)

Same issue, in fact came on the forums to see if anyone else has experienced it.  Built two identically, tested every component prior to installation.  J113’s are Fairchilds (I think) from GuitarPCB.  TL072’s are TI’s from StompBox and 2N5088 were between 590-630 for each.  Here’s a pic of one, the other is identical.  Hardly any gain (at least compared to the original), volume is fine and unity at noon.

Curious if I should try J201’s?


----------



## music6000 (May 18, 2021)

Makes ure the Pots are Correct!
Check all your Resistors with this.
Click on Bands for 5 Colours :








						Resistor Calculator
					

Resistor Calculator is an App developed by CherryJourney to help the user find the value of a resistor.




					resistor.cherryjourney.pt


----------



## Kroars (May 20, 2021)

music6000 said:


> Makes ure the Pots are Correct!
> Check all your Resistors with this.
> Click on Bands for 5 Colours :
> 
> ...


Yup they’re all good.  Talked to Kpedals and he verified it just doesn’t have much gain.  Seems strange as the Fat Bee seems to have quite a bit.


----------



## music6000 (May 20, 2021)

Kroars said:


> Yup they’re all good.  Talked to Kpedals and he verified it just doesn’t have much gain.  Seems strange as the Fat Bee seems to have quite a bit.


When listening to youtube videos, I always make sure I hear how clean the Amp is without the pedal.
If it is almost breaking up which a lot of these Demo's are, the pedal sounds like more Gain than it's got.
Then if you put Humbuckers into the mix, all bets are off!

Listen to this from 4.45 minutes in, He starts with an almost Clean amp the pedal with knobs at 12.00 Oclock, not much Gain at all just Fatter sounding
Then he goes on and Turns it to full Gain, its a Low to Medium gain pedal at best with single coils! :


----------



## Kroars (May 20, 2021)

music6000 said:


> When listening to youtube videos, I always make sure I hear how clean the Amp is without the pedal.
> If it is almost breaking up which a lot of these Demo's are, the pedal sounds like more Gain than it's got.
> Then if you put Humbuckers into the mix, all bets are off!
> 
> ...


Yeah, I saw that one too... Clearly not a good representation of the effect at the beginning of the vid.   That being said, I made sure to listen to a few of them and most had a clean amp signal and weren’t “professionally mixed”.


----------



## Hexjibber (Jun 17, 2022)

Kroars said:


> Yup they’re all good.  Talked to Kpedals and he verified it just doesn’t have much gain.  Seems strange as the Fat Bee seems to have quite a bit.


Did you ever solve this one? Really wanted to build this based on the Rabea vid but am reluctant if it's not performing as expected


----------



## Robert (Jun 17, 2022)

The (original) Fat Bee was surprisingly low gain, nothing like the high gain sounds in the Rabea video.


----------



## Bobbyd67 (Jun 17, 2022)

I know I built a second one using 2n5458 instead of j113 and it had significantly (edit: or more, i don't remember exactly) gain than my first j113 one. If you socketed your jfet you should try other ones and see, it really makes a huge difference on the overall gain


----------



## Hexjibber (Jun 17, 2022)

Robert said:


> The (original) Fat Bee was surprisingly low gain, nothing like the high gain sounds in the Rabea video.


Ah, had no idea there were different versions! Can it still boost a gainy amp into that sort of overblown fatness in his video? That's essentially the sound I'm after


----------



## Hexjibber (Jun 17, 2022)

Bobbyd67 said:


> I know I built a second one using 2n5458 instead of j113 and it had significantly less gain than my first j113 one. If you socketed your jfet you should try other ones and see, it really makes a huge difference on the overall gain


Sounds like it could be fun to play with and even make it more unique


----------



## Robert (Jun 17, 2022)

Hexjibber said:


> Ah, had no idea there were different versions!



Oh no, I didn't mean different versions, I just meant the original pedal really didn't have a ton of gain.


----------



## Hexjibber (Jun 17, 2022)

Robert said:


> Oh no, I didn't mean different versions, I just meant the original pedal really didn't have a ton of gain.


Hmm ok, I mean ultimately it’s not really the gain I need as such, it seemed to function more like a dirty boost on top of an already dirty amp in the Rabea vid so might just give it a go and see where I get to


----------



## Kroars (Jun 17, 2022)

Hexjibber said:


> Hmm ok, I mean ultimately it’s not really the gain I need as such, it seemed to function more like a dirty boost on top of an already dirty amp in the Rabea vid so might just give it a go and see where I get to


I assumed it was meant to work in tandem with a driven amp or dirt pedal -to fatten up the tone.  I didn’t realize that when I first tried it out into my clean channel and was very underwhelmed.  Once I put a dirt pedal after the Bee it worked well.


----------

