# Triple loops switcher with order switch



## ADAOCE (Jun 3, 2021)

Just an idea here after watching a video about reverb pre and post delay. My thought is to make a three loop switcher for mod, delay and reverb but make the reverb switchable to be either pre or post delay/mod.

Im probably going to just build this myself but thought it might also be a good idea for a potential pcb.

I was messing around last night running my spiritbox into my cataclysm and was getting some really epic sounds.


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## Feral Feline (Jun 5, 2021)

I really like having two switcheroos, depending on which 2 loops  put together to swap out with the third, you can have a lot of combos.

For this particular scenario, I'd put Delay & Reverb in one switcheroo, and those two with Modulation in the other re-orderooniki:

Reverb > Delay > Mod
Delay > Reverb > Mod
Mod > Reverb >  Delay
Mod > Delay > Reverb

[EDITED to try to show the relationships better: two shades of green can swap with each other, and together can swap position with purple.]


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## ADAOCE (Jun 5, 2021)

This would be very cool that’s an interesting idea. At the very least I’d like to be able to switch reverb pre and post delay but being able to put mod last would probably have some cool sounds.

obviously there are more elegant or complicated solutions like Klein bottle or parallel mixers and stuff but I like the simplicity of this


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## giovanni (Jun 6, 2021)

I was trying to figure out a switching combination to do this but I’m having a hard time doing so.


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## ADAOCE (Jun 6, 2021)

Yeah the easiest way would be to have three loops and group the delay and mod together so you can use the order switch to move the reverb pre and post delay/mod. Wouldn’t be able to split out mod like @Feral Feline suggested but I think just moving reverb around would be pretty useful while keeping the wiring simple and the unit to a 125b


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## Feral Feline (Jun 7, 2021)

Giovanni, maybe think of it like this:





The two lowest orbs can swap position with each other, together they can swap position with the larger blue orb on the far right.
Potentially, you could keep adding loops and order-switchers for increased complexity, just as in the hanging mobile above.


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## giovanni (Jun 7, 2021)

Yeah I was thinking about it that way, but the problem is that the blue orb can never be in the middle position. I was trying to figure out a way to get all 6 possible combinations.


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## ADAOCE (Jun 7, 2021)

Yeah the bottom three orbs is what I described. I think to do what you’re describing we would need a microcontroller and a relay switching or something


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## giovanni (Jun 8, 2021)

I’ve been thinking a bit more about this. If my intuition is correct, this may be doable with a 4-pole 6-position rotary switch. The 3 effect inputs connect to 3 of the poles and it should be possible to wire the outs to the switch so that each position is one of 6 unique possibilities (123, 132, 213, 231, 312, 321). I’ll draw a schematic when I can. Not sure such a switch is easy to find though.


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## ADAOCE (Jun 8, 2021)

giovanni said:


> I’ve been thinking a bit more about this. If my intuition is correct, this may be doable with a 4-pole 6-position rotary switch. The 3 effect inputs connect to 3 of the poles and it should be possible to wire the outs to the switch so that each position is one of 6 unique possibilities (123, 132, 213, 231, 312, 321). I’ll draw a schematic when I can. Not sure such a switch is easy to find though.


Hmm I’m interested to see your schematic.


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## Feral Feline (Jun 8, 2021)

giovanni said:


> Yeah I was thinking about it that way, but the problem is that the blue orb can never be in the middle position. I was trying to figure out a way to get all 6 possible combinations.


Yup, I burned through a lot of brain-cells trying to make the middle position work with just toggles when I first hatched the idea for a build a couple years ago. I was trying to avoid rotaries at the time, because I didn't understand rotaries. While I've got a slightly better understanding of rotary-switches now, I've not revisited trying to suss that middle position, so I'm really keen for your 4P6T idea to pan out.


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## giovanni (Jun 8, 2021)

OK so I think I figured it out. This requires a 4P6T rotary like this one one or alike (I know nothing about it but it’s one of the cheapest out there). If I understand how the switch works, each pole can connect to one of 6 different throws (for a total of 24 different throws). Each of the 6 combination represents a possible combination of the three effects. Three of the poles must connect directly to the three effect sends, while the fourth one to the switcher output. Each throw then connects to one of the three returns or the switcher input. Here’s a table to sort out the connections:


pole \ comb123132213231312321outret3ret2ret3ret1ret2ret1send1ininret2ret3ret3ret2send2ret1ret3ininret1ret3send3ret2ret1ret1ret2inin

To clarify, each column indicates where the throw corresponding to the pole for that row should be connected to. For example, for combination 213 the input throw connects to the second send pole, the second return throw connects to the first send pole, the first return throw connects to the third send pole and the third return throw connects to the output. Each cell essentially represents a throw (which are usually numbered from 1 to 24).

I hope I got that right. Please keep me honest! I might buy one of those rotary switches just to experiment.


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## fig (Jun 8, 2021)

You gotta! That is way cool!


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## ADAOCE (Jun 8, 2021)

@giovanni bravo I’m so glad I posted this idea and that you took off with this. It looks good on paper so we might as well try it out! I can do with a much simpler set of options but this is cool enough to do just for the sake of it.

Imagine just slowly turning that rotary around and around with something playing through it


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## giovanni (Jun 8, 2021)

ADAOCE said:


> @giovanni bravo I’m so glad I posted this idea and that you took off with this. It looks good on paper so we might as well try it out! I can do with a much simpler set of options but this is cool enough to do just for the sake of it.
> 
> Imagine just slowly turning that rotary around and around with something playing through it


Yeah, and putting all of that through a looper...


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## fig (Jun 8, 2021)

Make it a double please


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## fig (Jun 8, 2021)

like a quadratic equation with two of those switches interacting.


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## ADAOCE (Jun 8, 2021)

The switch is so ridiculous it’s like if @Chuck D. Bones posted it in a design challenge lol


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## fig (Jun 8, 2021)

_"We're gonna need a bigger spreadsheet"_


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## Feral Feline (Jun 9, 2021)

WHAT IF ... 
... it were relay-based and you could control everything with your feet — the loops themselves AND their order...


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## Chris411 (Jun 9, 2021)

The thing that got me into building pedals in the first place was that I wanted to make a huge loop switcher (at least 20 loops) that would do all sorts of unconventional (or expensive) bypass and order switching, mainly because I like to tinker with effects and my signal chain, not because I like to use so many effects.  

That was about 18 months ago, and I still haven't built my master loop switcher.  Partly because I keep changing thoughts about what I want it to look like depending on what other things I come across (for example: switch, plug, and jack options; relay bypass with remote switching; the Patchulator and other patchbay-esque concepts; novel enclosure and pedalboard concepts; series/parallel routing concepts; etc.), but also because, while I started building effects to hone my soldering chops, now, about 80 pedals in, I have a full-on sickness.

In any event, to solve the issue you've hit, I've considered a couple of different solutions (as a rule, I've been staying away from microcontrollers -- other than the ones included in individual relay bypass switches -- and MIDI).   I bought a handful of 6PDT pushbutton switches (not stomps, but I don't think you plan to stomp this switch) which allow you to add LED indicators, and there are 4PDT toggles (which don't really need an LED).  I haven't worked out what a 4PDT on-on-on toggle could do for order switching, but that's a possibility.  The 4P6T rotary idea has just blown up my head.

But the concept I like the most, and I've been working on prototypes for, is a hybrid loop switcher / patch bay with a couple of order swapping stomps or toggles woven in.  I'm probably settled on something like one or more normalled patchbays with single TRS cable inserts for each effect or loop.  I expect that would work more simply and flexibly than any switch concept, though it wouldn't be possible to rearrange on-the-fly (though that's seldom necessary).

I'm always looking for new ideas, though!
-Chris


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## ADAOCE (Jun 10, 2021)

Chris411 said:


> The thing that got me into building pedals in the first place was that I wanted to make a huge loop switcher (at least 20 loops) that would do all sorts of unconventional (or expensive) bypass and order switching, mainly because I like to tinker with effects and my signal chain, not because I like to use so many effects.
> 
> That was about 18 months ago, and I still haven't built my master loop switcher.  Partly because I keep changing thoughts about what I want it to look like depending on what other things I come across (for example: switch, plug, and jack options; relay bypass with remote switching; the Patchulator and other patchbay-esque concepts; novel enclosure and pedalboard concepts; series/parallel routing concepts; etc.), but also because, while I started building effects to hone my soldering chops, now, about 80 pedals in, I have a full-on sickness.
> 
> ...


That would be one epic looper dude!


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